LD Batteries August 31, 2019, 12:51:07 pm The current (pun intended) discussion regarding the Possessed Radio got me thinking about the batteries that Lazy Daze is now installing which is AGM Lifelines, I believe. Is there any maintenance required on AGM batteries? I have never owned one.I notice on the Lifeline website that the US military uses them so they must be high quality. Does anyone know what model battery LD uses?AGM Deep Cycle Marine Battery Made In USA - Lifeline Batteries
Re: LD Batteries Reply #1 – August 31, 2019, 01:16:32 pm "Does anyone know what model battery LD uses?"Looking at the Lifeline web site it appears that the only one that will fit (physically and electrically) would be the 220ah GPL 4CT. I believe that to be what I have in my LD and yes, they are completely maintenance free. However you will need to watch for corrosion on all connection points, particularly the 'ground' points. I recently panicked, believing my batteries to be bad because they would not take a charge, but as it turned out, my RV Service guy removed some corrosion and all is now well.
Re: LD Batteries Reply #2 – August 31, 2019, 01:17:40 pm AGM batteries are pretty maintenance free, and also have the advantage that they don't need venting, so they are often used in inside locations in RVs. But AGMs are significantly more expensive than traditional flooded-cell deep cycle batteries. Is the low maintenance worth the cost to you? Btw/ our current coach has 6 300AH AGM batteries.Art
Re: LD Batteries Reply #3 – August 31, 2019, 07:33:20 pm Quote from: Lazy Bones - August 31, 2019, 01:16:32 pm"Does anyone know what model battery LD uses?"Looking at the Lifeline web site it appears that the only one that will fit (physically and electrically) would be the 220ah GPL 4CT. I believe that to be what I have in my LD and yes, they are completely maintenance free. However you will need to watch for corrosion on all connection points, particularly the 'ground' points. I recently panicked, believing my batteries to be bad because they would not take a charge, but as it turned out, my RV Service guy removed some corrosion and all is now well. So when using (two) 6-volt batteries, you double the amp-hours, correct? In other words, the stock LD battery set-up has 440ah?
Re: LD Batteries Reply #4 – August 31, 2019, 11:00:07 pm The Wynn’s have gone to sea. Many of us on LDOF have seen their insightful RV YouTube videos. Very fun couple to follow.Their life at sea is no less insightful, entertaining, informative and just plain beautiful to watch.Their tech talk often cross-talks to the RV world. Here’s one that is very interesting and “current”. 😖https://youtu.be/J-kND4PaZm8Enjoy,Kent
Re: LD Batteries Reply #5 – September 01, 2019, 03:26:07 am Hi Greg, Each 6 volt battery adds 220 AH for itself. In series you get 220 AH at 12V. If you hooked them up in parallel, you would get 440AH yes, but only at 6 volts. Not too useful. 4 six volters would give you 440 AHours at 12 v. Thats about 250 pounds of battery. Quite a volume too. It would be great if two batteries would actually give you 220 AH, but you don't get to use it all. 100 AH would put you down near 50% discharge, tough as a routine usage pattern. So here comes Lithium LiFePO4. Lighter weight, faster charging, capable of 90% discharge on a routine basis without damage. Expensive,(edited:) charging issues at freezing temperatures. Thx Glen......But you can see we are on the verge. I think you ordered the MB, so for you 4 batteries, and solar. You've got the weight capacity, room, and roof space. I may try a combined hybrid, One lithium, with my two WLA. Lithium inside and more temp protected. RonB
Re: LD Batteries Reply #6 – September 01, 2019, 09:37:45 am Quote from: RonB - September 01, 2019, 03:26:07 am......<snip for clarity >...... So here comes Lithium LiFePO4. Lighter weight, faster charging, capable of 90% discharge on a routine basis without damage. Expensive, can't take low temperatures. But you can see we are on the verge. I think you ordered the MB, so for you 4 batteries, and solar. You've got the weight capacity, room, and roof space. I may try a combined hybrid, One lithium, with my two WLA. Lithium inside, temp protected. RonBLithium vs Cold WeatherA very common misunderstanding about lithium batteries. In fact lithium is 'better' at low temps. The issue is charging them. With a 'dedicated' system lithium is used in very very cold area with no problem -- ie jets and what not. <smile> trust me it gets very cold up there at altitude.glen 1 Likes
Re: LD Batteries Reply #7 – September 01, 2019, 11:21:15 am Thanks, Ron. I’m trying to remember how many amp-hours the T105 batteries had in my ‘85 TK but I’m thinking the AGM’s have more.
Re: LD Batteries Reply #8 – September 01, 2019, 11:51:07 am AGM batteries is a construction difference. The Absorbed Glass Mat is a spacer between plates, for more durability, no need for the water fillers or routine vents. But about the same storage capacity 220 to 225 AmpHours If I remember. The two the factory provides are great. LifeLine is a good brand. Factory website says 220 AH. Life styles now for many campers are more power hungry than they used to be. Cpaps, Internet, Televisions with satellite, much better just radios, have still exceeded savings from LED lighting. More and better solar begs for more batteries, etc. Ronb
Re: LD Batteries Reply #9 – September 01, 2019, 12:58:24 pm "I may try a combined hybrid, One lithium, with my two WLA. Lithium inside and more temp protected."If you mean putting them on the same circuit with the same charger, that wouldn't work well. LiFePO4 batteries have very different charging requirements from any of the lead-acid types (flooded, gel, or AGM). Combining them would be a bad idea."The issue is charging them."Right. For example, my Victron "Smart Lithium" LiFePO4 batteries have internal circuitry that stops them from accepting charge at several degrees above freezing, in order to prevent permanent damage. "With a 'dedicated' system lithium is used in very very cold area with no problem -- ie jets and what not."From what I've read, those setups use battery heaters to keep the batteries above freezing temperature. You could do that in an RV, but heaters use a lot of power, so it wouldn't be my first choice.
Re: LD Batteries Reply #10 – September 01, 2019, 01:22:04 pm Quote from: HiLola - August 31, 2019, 07:33:20 pmSo when using (two) 6-volt batteries, you double the amp-hours, correct? In other words, the stock LD battery set-up has 440ah?No. If confused, remember Volts X Amp-hrs = Watt-hrs, a measure of energy. The energy of two batteries is their sum. So, in this case:6 V X 220 A-hr = 1320 W-hr, so the two batteries together supply 2640 W-hr.then, since they are connected to provide 12V:2620 W-hr / 12 V = 220 A-hr total charge capacity at 12 V.Steve 1 Likes
Re: LD Batteries Reply #11 – September 01, 2019, 01:37:49 pm "when using (two) 6-volt batteries, you double the amp-hours, correct?"What Steve said. If you connected two 12 V batteries in parallel, you'd get the same voltage but double the amp-hours. But with a series setup (what the LD factory uses), the voltage doubles but the amp-hours stay the same. 2 Likes
Re: LD Batteries Reply #12 – September 02, 2019, 03:18:10 am Hi Andy. No the WLA batteries would use their original charger. The LiFePO4 (battleborn maybe) would have its own charger. My limited solar charger would just be a trickle charger to both sets. Generator and shore power to separate chargers. Engine power switched, or possibly to dedicated 12v chargers to each set. Most house functions would be Lithium; space heat, entertainment and lighting. Switched to WLA only when Lithium was down as far as allowed. That would take advantage of Lithium ability for more cycles, and greater depth of discharge. Starting the generator would be a WLA function. RonB
Re: LD Batteries Reply #13 – September 02, 2019, 04:55:13 am So if I understand, you'd need two separate chargers for shore power/generator power, each charger optimized for a different battery type. You'd need be able to switch engine charging between the two battery banks, and from what I know, you'd probably need a DC-to-DC converter to avoid damaging the LiFePO4 battery with the poorly regulated power from the engine's alternator.You'd need two solar charging controllers, each optimized for a different battery type. (You could switch one controller between the two battery banks, but then you'd have to reprogram it every time you switched.)Everything would need appropriate fuses or breakers, so you'd be adding a bunch of those, and probably some panels to hold them.You'd need to be able to connect either battery bank to power various devices, but without connecting them to each other. And you'd need to be able to monitor each bank separately--that means two BMV-712 battery monitors or equivalent--and keep track of each bank's state of charge. In short, you'd have to constantly manage two battery banks with very different characteristics, juggling charging and loads to make sure it all stays balanced.This all sounds like a helluva lot of work--both to build and to operate. And the extra wire, fuses, breakers, duplicate chargers, switches, solar controllers, battery monitors, and DC/DC converter will add up to a substantial chunk of change--maybe even enough to pay for a second LiFePO4 battery.If it were me, I'd just go lithium and avoid all the complications. That's what I did with both my Airstream and my Trillium, instead of trying to harness a horse and a donkey to the same cart. :-)
Re: LD Batteries Reply #14 – September 02, 2019, 11:12:57 am Hi Andy, way too much work there. I don't full time, and don't plan to, so the depth of control and management aren't necessary. More driving, more hook ups, and extended trips in my future. Maybe 2-3 days in some non hookup places. RonB
Re: LD Batteries Reply #15 – September 02, 2019, 02:11:22 pm I agree. Based on your description of your RVing patterns, it sounds as if you may be better off sticking with what you have, or at most upgrading to AGM batteries and maybe adding another solar panel.
Re: LD Batteries Reply #16 – September 02, 2019, 04:12:41 pm A question regarding upgrade from Lead acid to AGM. Can I just put in two AGM 6v batteries and leave in place the HPV 22 solar charger, or does that solar charger need to be replaced at the same time?
Re: LD Batteries Reply #17 – September 02, 2019, 04:19:43 pm If you install AGMs, upgrade both your converter and the solar charge controller to multi-stage units which have AGM settings.Steve
Re: LD Batteries Reply #18 – September 02, 2019, 05:07:07 pm Hi Jack, The HPV-22 is already a multi stage, (charge, float) MPPT sophisticated controller, unless you want to add more panels than it can handle current wise (22 Amps). According to the article it has an internal control to adjust the output voltage for other battery types. I would assume they meant AGM. That should be in the HPV-22 manual. https://vrcamping.com/_doc/articles/interet_general/electricite/solaire/solar_power.pdf Your Converter charge controller may also have a setting for AGM, although I'm not sure what came with a 2006. By now an upgrade to a newer controller might be good, depending on what your old converter can or can't do. RonB
Re: LD Batteries Reply #19 – September 02, 2019, 06:24:34 pm "If you install AGMs, upgrade both your converter and the solar charge controller to multi-stage units which have AGM settings."-----Agree! AGMs are very sensitive to overcharging; the HPV-22 is an old charge controller and what is probably a Parallax 7300 series converter are not up to the job. The information at this link may help to clarify what is needed:RV Solar Education 1 Likes
Re: LD Batteries Reply #20 – September 02, 2019, 06:46:01 pm Good I information. My converter is good. Just worried about the solar charger. I will look in the manual. I am also wondering if the temperature we sensor can stay the same.
Re: LD Batteries Reply #21 – September 03, 2019, 05:42:09 am Hi Jack. If you upgrade to a new solar controller, The Blue Sky R3000i you would need to replace the temperature sensor also. In addition it is physically larger with bigger heatsinks to handle the higher current, so it needs an adaptor plate to fit, but sticks out more. While the Blue Sky will charge your chassis battery, you would need to run the wiring to do that. It is easier to add a Trik-L-Start at the diode isolator you have under the hood already. Unless you add solar panels, you wouldn't need the extra current hadling capability of the Blue Sky controller. The HPV-22 is newer than my Solar Boost 2000. Both of them are MPPT controllers. If you had the RV-30S that LD used to provide, that would need changing. The HPV-22B (that's why it is a 'B' revision level) did add a switch so that you could lower the charge voltage applied to the panels, from 14.4 v.(max) for maximum solar charging. While you are plugged in long term, such as in a RV park for weeks, you can turn the charge controller to a lower 13.2 volts to reduce overcharging of your batteries.. I don't consider that worth much. You have to remember to turn that switch on and off. I think it is entirely feasible to just lower the HPV-22 you have to a lower voltage to fit your AGM's. Also the Converter supply voltage would need a lower voltage output for the AGM's RonB
Re: LD Batteries Reply #22 – September 03, 2019, 10:45:55 am Thanks so much for all this information. 1 Likes
Re: LD Batteries Reply #23 – September 03, 2019, 10:56:54 am We had an HPV 22B in our LD and found that setting the switch to the lower setting resulted in changing the setting to 13.6V not 13.2. It also has an off/on switch if you want to turn it off while plugged in.AM Solar installed the Blue Sky 3000i last summer and since they installed the controller in the same spot as the 22B they used the existing temp sensor and spliced it in.Jim
Re: LD Batteries Reply #24 – September 03, 2019, 04:21:56 pm Does “splicing it in” mean simply connecting the temperature sensor wire that went to the back of the HPV unit to the correct connector on the back of the Blue Sky controller?
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