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Size of Cable
Hello to all.  I have a 2006 Mid-bath and have upgraded the converter to a Progressive Dynamics 4655 (55 amps).
I intend to add a 2000W inverter at the same time I put in Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries.
The particular PD4655 that I currently have can be modified (jumper changes) so as to accommodate the new batteries. I am wondering about the size of the cable from the converter to the battery.
Does anyone know what size is originally provided from the factory?   I'm thinking it is 6 gauge?
Does a 2000W inverter require me to increase the size?
Thanks so much
2006 MB

Re: Size of Cable
Reply #1
To feed 12 volts to a 2000 watt inverter to create 120 volt AC, watts = volts x amps, so the inverter will pull 167 amps from the battery bank.  For a single run cable you will need 1 or 2 gauge.

My inverter replaces the function of the converter.  It is fed by both a 120 volt cable from the breaker box, used to charge the battery bank, and a 12 volt cable from the battery bank, used to provide 120 volt power to the rig outlets.

To determine the wiring needed from the converter to the battery bank, if indeed you will be using the converter, you need to determine the amps that will be carried.  You can then look up the required wire size for that current.

Ken F in WY
'08 MB

Re: Size of Cable
Reply #2
Hello to all.  I have a 2006 Mid-bath and have upgraded the converter to a Progressive Dynamics 4655 (55 amps).
I intend to add a 2000W inverter at the same time I put in Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries.
The particular PD4655 that I currently have can be modified (jumper changes) so as to accommodate the new batteries. I am wondering about the size of the cable from the converter to the battery.
Does anyone know what size is originally provided from the factory?   I'm thinking it is 6 gauge?
Does a 2000W inverter require me to increase the size?
Thanks so much

You are leaving a lot of charging capability in the generator if you are going to charge the batteries through the converter.

Two batteries can charge at 90 amps. Three Li batteries are able to suck down 120-150 amps. Five batteries even more. Charging through the converter will triple your generator run time. Perhaps the generator is not your primary charge source (solar?) and it does not matter.
Harry 2006RB

Re: Size of Cable
Reply #3
Hello to all.  I have a 2006 Mid-bath and have upgraded the converter to a Progressive Dynamics 4655 (55 amps).
I intend to add a 2000W inverter at the same time I put in Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries.
The particular PD4655 that I currently have can be modified (jumper changes) so as to accommodate the new batteries. I am wondering about the size of the cable from the converter to the battery.
Does anyone know what size is originally provided from the factory?  I'm thinking it is 6 gauge?
Does a 2000W inverter require me to increase the size?

Betters inverters have high-output, built in battery chargers, for use when shore power is available or when the generator is operated? Does the one you intend to use have this feature? The Factory wire from the converter to battery is 6-gauge and adequate for the 55-amp, upgraded converter. An inverter with a built-in 100-amp charger, the wiring from the inverter/charger, to the battery, must be upgraded.

When installing a 2000-watt inverters, I try to keep the voltage drop very low for best efficiency. For a 2000-watt inverter, use 0000 cable, between the battery and inverter, The cable is very thick, heavy and tough to bend. Using the same gauge welding cable will make things a little easier, at a cost. It's worth the effort in the long run.
Use a pro grade crimper for the best attachment of the lugs to the cables.
This is the time to upgrade the solar charging system with more panels and larger cabling.

Here are some photos of a 2000-watt inverter installation, in a Mid-bath, along with two added batteries and a surge protector.
Prosine 2.0 Inverter | Flickr
It's a big, long and expensive job to do it right.
You can save yourself a lot of work and money by adjusting your life style and equipment not to require large amounts of A/C power. Other than the microwave and hairdryers, what daily use of 120-VAC is required? For occasional use the generator is a fine source of A/C power.  Us older folks lived just fine before the microwave oven was invented.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze

Re: Size of Cable
Reply #4
Betters inverters have high-output, built in battery chargers, for use when shore power is available or when the generator is operated? Does the one you intend to use have this feature? The Factory wire from the converter to battery is 6-gauge and adequate for the 55-amp, upgraded converter. An inverter with a built-in 100-amp charger, the wiring from the inverter/charger, to the battery, must be upgraded.

When installing a 2000-watt inverters, I try to keep the voltage drop very low for best efficiency. For a 2000-watt inverter, use 0000 cable, between the battery and inverter, The cable is very thick, heavy and tough to bend. Using the same gauge welding cable will make things a little easier, at a cost. It's worth the effort in the long run.
Use a pro grade crimper for the best attachment of the lugs to the cables.
This is the time to upgrade the solar charging system with more panels and larger cabling.

Here are some photos of a 2000-watt inverter installation, in a Mid-bath, along with two added batteries and a surge protector.
Prosine 2.0 Inverter | Flickr
It's a big, long and expensive job to do it right.
You can save yourself a lot of work and money by adjusting your life style and equipment not to require large amounts of A/C power. Other than the microwave and hairdryers, what daily use of 120-VAC is required? For occasional use the generator is a fine source of A/C power.  Us older folks lived just fine before the microwave oven was invented.

Larry

Very good stuff and I thank you
2006 MB

Re: Size of Cable
Reply #5
Betters inverters have high-output, built in battery chargers, for use when shore power is available or when the generator is operated? Does the one you intend to use have this feature? The Factory wire from the converter to battery is 6-gauge and adequate for the 55-amp, upgraded converter. An inverter with a built-in 100-amp charger, the wiring from the inverter/charger, to the battery, must be upgraded.

When installing a 2000-watt inverters, I try to keep the voltage drop very low for best efficiency. For a 2000-watt inverter, use 0000 cable, between the battery and inverter, The cable is very thick, heavy and tough to bend. Using the same gauge welding cable will make things a little easier, at a cost. It's worth the effort in the long run.
Use a pro grade crimper for the best attachment of the lugs to the cables.
This is the time to upgrade the solar charging system with more panels and larger cabling.

Here are some photos of a 2000-watt inverter installation, in a Mid-bath, along with two added batteries and a surge protector.
Prosine 2.0 Inverter | Flickr
It's a big, long and expensive job to do it right.
You can save yourself a lot of work and money by adjusting your life style and equipment not to require large amounts of A/C power. Other than the microwave and hairdryers, what daily use of 120-VAC is required? For occasional use the generator is a fine source of A/C power.  Us older folks lived just fine before the microwave oven was invented.

Larry
Further to this, I am only interested in a little bit of microwave.  It's really about the hairdryer for the wife.  Thus, a 2000W inverter will solve the problem.
Regarding batteries, I am going to the Battleborn batteries because of all the widely known reasons, but mostly how quickly they can take a charge.  I have a PD4655 Converter/charger that is "lithium ready" and will only need to move the jumper (or whatever it's called) on the power board.
I thus will also be replacing the Heliotrope MPPT controller.  Probably going to the Blue Sky 3000i.  I had not thought about the size of cables regarding that.  Did you change those cables also?
Best regards
2006 MB

Re: Size of Cable
Reply #6

Regarding batteries, I am going to the Battleborn batteries because of all the widely known reasons, but mostly how quickly they can take a charge. 
I have a PD4655 Converter/charger that is "lithium ready" and will only need to move the jumper (or whatever it's called) on the power board.
I thus will also be replacing the Heliotrope MPPT controller.  Probably going to the Blue Sky 3000i.  I had not thought about the size of cables regarding that.  Did you change those cables also?

Lithium batteries can take very large changing currents without problems.
Where is the huge amount of charging power going to come from?
Your 55-amp (stock for your rig was 45-amps), "lithium ready" converter is puny compared to what a lithium battery can safely absorb.
A roof full of solar panels will never produce over 30-amps.
To take full advantage of a lithium battery's ability to charge at a high rate, you need a source of current many times larger than the converter or panels can supply. Think something in the 200-300-amp range if two 100-amp/hour lithiums are installed.
This type of power is not normally available unless your engine is equipped with a second alternator and the engine is used to charge the coach battery. AFAIK, there are no dual-alternator kits available for the V10. The upcoming V8s does have this option.
Without a high amperage source of power, the ability to be changed at a high rate is a wasted benefit.

Lithium has other advantages, being lighter and able to tolerate deep discharges but is it worth the extra money or has advantages you will actually use? Lithium is still several times more expensive .
You can satisfy you needs with a full load of solar and either lead-acid or AGM batteries .
The photos provide in the earlier post were of a system installed to primarily run a wife's hairdryer, it worked fine with four AGMs and had a higher charge rate with the Prosine's inverter's 100-amp battery charger, along with the solar panels.

If I bought a new LD, lithium would be tempting but on an older rig, it seems like a lot of money for a system could outlast the RV. I would also want a well proven lithium system, Battleborn is relatively new company, it could disappear tomorrow .
At this time, a Victron system would be my choice, with their time proven, integrated marine battery systems. Victron is AM Solar's choice for lithium batteries .

If you add more panels, the cabling should be upsized to get full efficiency, voltage drop in charging systems can cause dramatic drops in charge rate. The factory solar wiring is good for 200-watts of solar.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze

Re: Size of Cable
Reply #7
Two Battleborn 100AH batteries will charge at 80-95 amps max using two 60AH chargers in parallel running off the generator. I don't have three so I can't tell you what rate three will charge. One charged at 57 amps. Why two won't charge at 115 amps I don't know.

If you are not going to take advantage of the charging rate then don't waste the money on lithium batteries. Just an opinion.

The inverter seems to be overkill for two batteries. I have two batteries and a 1500 watt inverter. It draws 105 amps running the microwave which is a lot so I rarely use it that way. Hair dryers typically also have a 700 watt setting.
Harry 2006RB

Re: Size of Cable
Reply #8
All good points you guys are making.  I am trying to rethink my approach and what I really want.

1.  I would like a quicker charge on my batteries.  It doesn't have to be lightening fast but better than what I have now.  I think AGM batteries might serve that purpose, but I would have to replace my Heliotrope MPPT charger because it would overcook the AGM batteries and shorten the life.  Perhaps I just upgrade the MPPt controller?  To what I don't know.

2.  The hair dryer issue is the elephant in the bathroom.  What do other people do about hair dryers.  What did people do for the last 10,000 years because Tommy Edison came along.   Seriously, are there other hair dryer options out there I should consider?

2006 MB

Re: Size of Cable
Reply #9


2.  The hair dryer issue is the elephant in the bathroom.  What do other people do about hair dryers.  What did people do for the last 10,000 years because Tommy Edison came along.  Seriously, are there other hair dryer options out there I should consider?

Being a happy and contented husband of over 30 plus years I have learned to be very very careful asking DW to alternative methods in her habit plan.   In this issue I promise her full hookups  here and there in the travel plans.   When she feels she can no longer go without (fill in the blank) we go 'full hookup'.   Its a plan we both can live with.

glen
personal fine art photo stuff
TF Mack | Flickr
It's all good .......
2014 Twin King

Re: Size of Cable
Reply #10
My wife simply got a short haircut when we started traveling. She does not need a stinking hairdryer.

We make coffee on the stovetop. Popcorn? Yeah, we have to use the generator.

We get by fine with two lead-acid batteries and three solar panels.
Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy

Re: Size of Cable
Reply #11
All good points you guys are making.  I am trying to rethink my approach and what I really want.

1.  I would like a quicker charge on my batteries.  It doesn't have to be lightening fast but better than what I have now.  I think AGM batteries might serve that purpose, but I would have to replace my Heliotrope MPPT charger because it would overcook the AGM batteries and shorten the life.  Perhaps I just upgrade the MPPt controller?  To what I don't know.

There is a pot within the Heliotrope solar controller that you can adjust to suit your batteries. I adjusted mine to work with lithium.
Harry 2006RB

Re: Size of Cable
Reply #12
"There is a pot[entiometer] within the Heliotrope solar controller that you can adjust to suit your batteries."

To properly charge batteries (in order to maximize their useful lifespan), you need to be able to set (at minimum) absorption voltage, maximum absorption time, and float voltage. One potentiometer adjustment can't do three things. I would not recommend the Heliotrope controller for anything but flooded lead-acid batteries.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"

Re: Size of Cable
Reply #13
"There is a pot[entiometer] within the Heliotrope solar controller that you can adjust to suit your batteries."

To properly charge batteries (in order to maximize their useful lifespan), you need to be able to set (at minimum) absorption voltage, maximum absorption time, and float voltage. One potentiometer adjustment can't do three things. I would not recommend the Heliotrope controller for anything but flooded lead-acid batteries.
So what would you suggest for AGM batteries?  The Blu Sky MPPT 3000i Charger looks good but expensive.  I noticed I can buy an adapter plate to fit it to where the Heliotrope was before.  Don’t know if it’s just a drop in or if cables and fuses needs to be changed also.
2006 MB

 
Re: Size of Cable
Reply #14
The Blue Sky Solar Boost 3000i has the kinds of settings I was talking about, according to its manual. It can also use an (optional) temperature compensation sensor--highly recommended for lead-acid batteries, including AGMs, but less important for LiFePO4 batteries.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"

Re: Size of Cable
Reply #15
The Blue Sky Solar Boost 3000i has the kinds of settings I was talking about, according to its manual. It can also use an (optional) temperature compensation sensor--highly recommended for lead-acid batteries, including AGMs, but less important for LiFePO4 batteries.
Very good and thank you.
2006 MB

Re: Size of Cable
Reply #16

But getting back to your original question, Jack--for a given set of batteries, the 3000i solar controller probably won't charge them noticeably faster than the old Heliotrope. Switching to AGM will get you somewhat faster charging, but at least in my experience, not dramatically so. Switching to LiFePO4 will get you much faster charging, as LiFePO4 batteries charge "full speed" (bulk) until they're full--there's no need for the slowly tapering absorb phase.

With regard to hair dryers, I can offer one suggestion: I occasionally use a compact Andis hair dryer that draws only 330 watts on its low setting. Obviously it doesn't dry as fast that way as on its 1,600W high setting, so maybe the amp-hours consumed are not that much less--I haven't run any comparison tests. But it doesn't require a 2,000 W inverter, that's for sure. And it's much less likely to beat your batteries to death. (Again, with LiFePO4 this is less of a concern.)

As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"

Re: Size of Cable
Reply #17
But getting back to your original question, Jack--for a given set of batteries, the 3000i solar controller probably won't charge them noticeably faster than the old Heliotrope. Switching to AGM will get you somewhat faster charging, but at least in my experience, not dramatically so. Switching to LiFePO4 will get you much faster charging, as LiFePO4 batteries charge "full speed" (bulk) until they're full--there's no need for the slowly tapering absorb phase.

With regard to hair dryers, I can offer one suggestion: I occasionally use a compact Andis hair dryer that draws only 330 watts on its low setting. Obviously it doesn't dry as fast that way as on its 1,600W high setting, so maybe the amp-hours consumed are not that much less--I haven't run any comparison tests. But it doesn't require a 2,000 W inverter, that's for sure. And it's much less likely to beat your batteries to death. (Again, with LiFePO4 this is less of a concern.)
I love the LifePO4 for sure.  They are expensive but the value is in the long term experience to me.  All good points.  The age of the unit is not a factor to me because. I consider this along the lines of a restoration.  I don’t want to be wishing I had done something a year from now that I didn’t do because of money.  Thanks for all of your input.
As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
2006 MB