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Topic: 7 Year-old Tires: Still going strong (Read 1389 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: 7 Year-old Tires: Still going strong
Reply #51 –
Joan - You posted something important.  The tire warranty only covers the tire (and in my experience it is prorated so you really just get a discount on the next tire bought from that company).  The more expensive damage is to the rest of the rig and potentially to the people inside the rig.  So I err on the side of caution.

Eric and others.   Escapees bootcamp teaches the same method shown in the video - accelerate than with the rig under control slow it down and drive to the side.
In fact they say the drivers job is to floor the accelerator, the passengers job is to yell gas, gas, gas (to remind the driver what to do).  FYI - they now have all their bootcamp videos online, some are very good, some are things you already know, but very worthwhile for newer RVers.

Since the tire blowing is a side force, I figured we (DH & I) should practice this maneuver so it was natural if a tire blowout ever happened (e.g. like your muscles knowing how to hit/throw that ball in a sport, you don't think it through, you just do it). 
As the video said, we hit side forces all the time - gusts of wind from nature/semis, etc.  So on our trip from AZ to CA in March, I played with this.  I tried it with some Semis and it worked fine.  But I also was blessed with driving in that horrible area of nasty high gusting wind (where the windmills are to generate electricity) and it seemed a worst than typical day.  We had huge gusts that would throw the rig 4' to the side if you did nothing to compensate - I would exclaim "Oh Man" loudly and floor the gas pedal trick as soon as I felt that side force.  It made a huge difference, we got shoved to the side only a couple inches (huge difference between that and 4').  I found that I really didn't pick up speed - the first few seconds the speed was the same, at about the 6-7 second mark I picked up just a few mph.  Not anything to worry about. 

Disclaimer, I was driving a 22' (so likely smaller than yours so less side force), no Toad, and a Chevy G30 (so likely less speed pickup from flooring it than yours).  And I might have gotten the pedal only 7/8 or even 3/4 to the floor sometimes, at other times I did get it to the floor.  So YMMV. 

But I highly recommend playing with this when in situations of side forces,  starting with small ones like semi's passing so you can see and trust how it works and then go play where there are high gusts of wind.  That way you not only gain confidence that this method works, but you will be more likely to not panic but automatically react with the accelerator down method. 

Jane
Jane & Scott
Currently have a 1989 TK  LD we did a lot of upgrades on.
Bigfoot 25RQ Twin on order with early summer 2024 ETA

Our smartphone autocorrects into very poor English.
 We disclaim the illusion of ignorance this creates as we have enough ignorance we rightly claim.
Re: 7 Year-old Tires: Still going strong
Reply #52 –
Quote from: Jane and Scott  - 

....... But I highly recommend playing with this when in situations of side forces,  starting with small ones like semi's passing so you can see and trust how it works and then go play where there are high gusts of wind.  That way you not only gain confidence that this method works, but you will be more likely to not panic but automatically react with the accelerator down method. 

Jane

Good idea.   I know that in an emergency you will do what you practiced.    Using side wind is better than on purposed blowing your tires and I might add cheaper.   

glen 
personal fine art photo stuff
TF Mack | Flickr
It's all good .......
2014 Twin King
Re: 7 Year-old Tires: Still going strong
Reply #53 –
Quote from: Jane and Scott  - 
Since the tire blowing is a side force, I figured we (DH & I) should practice this maneuver so it was natural if a tire blowout ever happened (e.g. like your muscles knowing how to hit/throw that ball in a sport, you don't think it through, you just do it). 
It's possible that flooring the accelerator is useful in the situations you describe, but a tire blowing is definitely NOT a side force. For a front tire blowout, what you feel in the steering wheel is produced by the additional drag for the blown tire (a frictional-like force to the rear, and only on the tire), compared to the good one on the other side. Wind gusts and trucks passing to put an aerodynamic side force on the motorhome, and that side force affects the steering wheel through the geometry of the front suspension. Effectively, the front wheels are "casters", and a side force tends to turn the wheels to the side away from the force on it. Drivers react by steering towards the side force.

The gusts I've encountered are over quickly (that's what makes it a gust), more quickly than I or the motorhome can respond to them by flooring the pedal. It might help when you encounter a fairly steady crosswind as you come out from behind a hill, and the wind suddenly hits you and continues to hit you, but I haven't tried it or thought it through.
2005 Jayco 24SS
Re: 7 Year-old Tires: Still going strong
Reply #54 –
Eric, the wind gusts where I practiced lasted about 5-10 seconds and it made a difference to floor the RV.  DH was driving on the way back, gusts were not that bad, but he got blown 2' into the next lane over e.g. over the line) on a very bad gust.  So well worth accelerating IMO.  I exclaimed a lot but never went over that line.  The attached picture shows the area, I know many in S. CA are familiar with that stretch of road east of Los Angeles.  I didn't feel the steering wheel turn under my hands  (what you seemed to be saying.. the tires would turn which would turn the steering wheel), I would feel the entire LD move to the side, like blowing on a tiny box (with no wheels on it).  By accelerating I barely needed to move the wheel at all to "course correct".  [Yeah, I do the old 10 and 2 o'clock on the LD, something I haven't done in decades in a car.]

Escapees bootcamp from what I remember, explained it as you are moving forward with a force.  You now have a new force pulling your rig in a different direction.  Increasing the forward force (making it larger) means it is more likely to be dominate and keep you going in that direction.  They also said the tire typically doesn't come all the way off (e.g. you are not riding on rims would be different friction than a collapsed tire) and can typically slow down and then if needed drive a mile or two to get off the road to a safe place to get the tire changed (e.g. not forcing a tire change on the freeway shoulder).

I would describe what Escapees presented as the tire blew and yes it is now causing more friction/dragging/slowing on that corner of the rig.  I would guess the rig would react by spinning towards the direction of the tire - e.g. trying to make a circle around the tire that is blown - but it doesn't just do a tight circle as the force of our nice heavy LDs going forward is pretty high (the reason smaller cars lose big time in wrecks, even if the other car is just one size bigger than yours).  Instead we start a slow spin (mostly forward but now twisting to the side). 

Our goal is to keep the rig going straight forward. 

So Escapees said if you push the accelerator down, you are increasing the force to go straight forward to keep this force larger than the one the blown tire is causing (with it's drag) so that you are driving straight as possible until you get past the panic and have corrected your steering and can start to slow down safely.
Braking right away reduces the forward force (and changes the ratio of forward force vs spin around that tire force) so that we are more likely to do a bigger spin/twist around.

It does not accelerate the vehicle much (takes a lot of acceleration to make our LDs go faster as they are heavy), it just increases the forward moving force so we are less likely to spin. 

So, if Eric says it is different, for those who have had blowouts - how much directional force did you feel (before any braking or course correction)?  A small pull to the side, a huge pull to the side, a huge pull backwards, or ......?  Anyone have it happen and still stay calm so they could observe the force?  :D
Jane & Scott
Currently have a 1989 TK  LD we did a lot of upgrades on.
Bigfoot 25RQ Twin on order with early summer 2024 ETA

Our smartphone autocorrects into very poor English.
 We disclaim the illusion of ignorance this creates as we have enough ignorance we rightly claim.
Re: 7 Year-old Tires: Still going strong
Reply #55 –
Quote from: Jane and Scott  - 
I didn't feel the steering wheel turn under my hands  (what you seemed to be saying.. the tires would turn which would turn the steering wheel), I would feel the entire LD move to the side, like blowing on a tiny box (with no wheels on it).
Think about the times you drove in a strong, steady wind coming from the side: you had to hold the steering wheel turned some towards the side the wind is coming from, compared to driving in no wind. The same forces are there with a gust, but don't last as long, and perhaps that's why you don't notice it. I notice the "twitch" in the steering wheel every time there is a gust, and my reaction is reflexive - I resist it without even thinking, which I think most everyone does.
2005 Jayco 24SS
 
Re: 7 Year-old Tires: Still going strong
Reply #56 –
I sent the Michelin video to a long time friend of mine, worked 15-20 years as a tire and vehicle stability engineer for a large company, then continued in the field after retirement. Here is his reply:

Quote
I did get a look at it.  It was like old home week.  The Nevada Automotive Test Center was where I worked part time after I retired.  I recognized the motor home in the video.  That video, which I have seen before, has to be over 20 years old.  Where did you find it?.  I remember Henry Hodges Sr, (long since passed on) promoting the practice of hitting the gas with a blowout.  He never could rationally explain (to my satisfaction) the engineering of why.  Fortunately the Michelin video suggests you back off the gas before you gain "any" speed.  NATC did testing for Michelin in those days.

Loosing a front tire is less risky than loosing a rear, assuming one holds the vehicle on the road, which nowadays with effective power steering is not hard.  The worst that can happen is a modest under-steer.  I believe best practice is to keep the steering straight and gradually reduce speed.  Right front rapid tire pressure loss happened to me in our previous motor home.  The speed was modest, probably 55 to 60,  It was not a blowout but was a failed valve stem.  The result was quite benign.  There was a slight pulling to the right and a road roughness that felt like we were driving on a rumble strip.  We were on a two lane road just south of mount Shasta on our way to Carson City, at night.  Getting the spare (which was nearly out of air) installed was a considerable adventure.  I doubt if I could do it now.  When we got to Carson City we got everything fixed, including the very slow leak in the tire which was the spare.

So, I'll stick to my belief that flooring the pedal has no value. Here is some info on Henry Hodges Sr:

Mr. Henry C. Hodges Sr., Ordnance Corps Hall of Fame Inductee 2009, U.S....
2005 Jayco 24SS
Re: 7 Year-old Tires: Still going strong
Reply #57 –
Quote from: Eric Greenwell  - 
So, I'll stick to my belief that flooring the pedal has no value.

Since this discussion is just going around in circles, it's time to end it.
The 'facts' from both side have been presented. It's up to the individual LD owner to decide how he/she want to approach a blowout.
Let's move on.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
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