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Topic: A Major Lazy Modification. Adding 4x4.  (Read 763 times) previous topic - next topic
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A Major Lazy Modification. Adding 4x4.
I have yet to find my Lazy Daze Motor Home, but I am well on the hunt.

When I find the machine that's right for me I propose to undertake the huge modification of adding a front differential to produce a four wheel drive motor home. I've seen it done, on Fords specifically, though the one pictured here is on a E550 chassis, not an E450.

I've also seen factory stock 4x4 RVs from the 1980s. There's a 28' 1989 Rockwood 4x4 for sale right now in Vancouver, WA which I believe was stock .

Just to make clear - I don't propose to climb rocks with a Motor Home. The idea is to never get trapped in a muddy field after a midnight thunderstorm and not to worry too much about getting stuck in that early spring snow on a Rocky Mountain pass. And also because 4x4 has saved me many times.

I come to this community for advice with the following questions:

> Does anyone know of a Lazy Daze that's been modified like this? Any special issues?

> Is there a specific shop that anyone would recommend to do the job? Or a company that would sell a kit? I have the friends and space to do it if a (truly good quality) kit were available. 

> I'll call the Mothership to ask, but does anyone know if 4x4 was ever a LD factory option? This would be great as I'd know what I'm after is already out there.

I've learned that some shops that do this modification will only work on vehicles with less that 50,000 miles. Existing parts have to be relatively new to work well with the new parts. Any other observations about this process would be welcome.

Many Thanks in advance.



Re: A Major Lazy Modification. Adding 4x4.
Reply #3 –
The U Joint kit is very well made.
To do it right, you'd probably spend around $20K, but you would have an RV that has much better ground clearance
to get around the more rough roads out there.

I've considered it, but I don't want a van front end for my next RV.
I'm going to just get a factory 4x4  truck from one of the manufacturers and have a box made
to live in.
Jota
96 23.5 FL
 
Re: A Major Lazy Modification. Adding 4x4.
Reply #4 –
Just remember - 4WD doesn't get stuck less, just worse  ;)
Joel & Terry Wiley
dog Zeke
2013  31 IB   Orwan   / 2011 CRV Tow'd LWEROVE
Re: A Major Lazy Modification. Adding 4x4.
Reply #6 –
This topic has been discussed multiple times in the past and there are several reasons why this isn't as good an idea as it looks at first glance.
Search the this topic. for other points of view.

The front axle in most LDs does not have have much extra large carrying capacity, adding the weight of the front drive axle, transfer case, suspension modifications and front driveshaft will take it the limit or beyond.
I suggest taking your existing LD for a long drive down a badly rutted and/or washboarded road and then let us know how you liked the ride.
When your teeth stop shaking and eyes can focus again, you can think about how limited the front wheel travel is and how it needs much larger tires that can be run at less than 80-psi . The suspension on these rigs were not designed for off roading, BTDT.

Unfortunately, the dual rear wheels prohibit running anything wider, since the rear duals need to have a specified gap, for cooling. You could run different size wheels and tires, on the front and a large single tire and wheel on the rear but that would require carrying two, very large spares, adding more weight. The close fit of the wheel wells prohibits increasing the tire height by very much, if at all. Without major body modifications, you are stuck with a near stock size tire .

I would not want to off road such a heavy vehicle without a minimum of a 12,000-lb, or larger, winch.
Skid plates definitely need to be added to the gas, propane, holding tanks, the rear of the engine and the transmission, whose aluminum pan hangs low and is an easy target. Figure several hundred pounds for the plates.

Once the extra weight of the 4X4 conversion, skid plates, recovery points, possibly larger tires and wheels, not including a winch, have been added, you will be at or over the GVW, when loaded.
Increased ground clearance is needed for back country driving and the only way to get is to lift the vehicle, which raises the center of gravity and will make it more tippy than already is. The width, height, weight and lack of ground clearance will limit where it can go.
I do not remember ever seeing a well constructed 4X4 Class C . The above limitations are probably why is isn't regularly done.

I would like a 4X4 RV and gave the Quadravans some thought years ago but the cost and limited practicality were the deal breakers. I must admit some of the 4X4 Sprinter expedition vans would have been of interest 30 years ago...except for the high cost.
To satisfy our back country urges and still stay with a practical RV, we tow a built Jeep. Our short LD is capable of getting into mild back country conditions and the Jeep takes us as far as we please on extended day trips.
For us, this is the perfect combination, YMMV.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: A Major Lazy Modification. Adding 4x4.
Reply #7 –
I understand the desire to have better clearance for remote roads and the ability to get unstuck when in soft substrate.  The Lazy Daze is a compromise that tends toward comfort when camping and stable drivability on the road.  I appreciate the build quality of the Lazy Daze for durability for years of ownership

However, it is still a compromise.  All RV's are a compromise.

I really enjoyed having a robust 4X4 truck with a slide in camper.  For me, it solved all of the issues above, but slid the compromise bar toward less comfort when camping.  Momma likes her comfort, I like Momma, so we bought the Lazy Daze.  The motorcycle or the Jeep allow a little exploring once the Lazy Daze is secure in camp.

Take a look at Dave Rogers blog on taking a slide in camper into rougher areas.  The places he explores are inspiring and beautiful!

Dave Rogers (Grand Whazoo) and Truck Camper Escapades

Harold
2014 27 MB
Towd: Either the Jeep Wrangler or trailer containing the BMW R1200GS and 2 E-bicycles
Happy wife=Happy life
Re: A Major Lazy Modification. Adding 4x4.
Reply #9 –
Quote from: JonS  - 
I know it isn't nearly as much fun but this seems to be the way to go here.

2008 Host Quad Cab 4WD Motorohome -37' - rvs - by owner - vehicle automotive...

Interesting rig. Don't ever recall seeing a quad cab like that. I like the 4x4 and diesel features; four slides, not so much. Thanks for sharing, Jon!
Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264
Re: A Major Lazy Modification. Adding 4x4.
Reply #10 –
Thanks to everyone for your responses.

A few days ago there was an interesting 1968 Revcon for sale on craigslist in Eugene, OR. Supposedly it was commissioned by William Shatner and was the "one and only 4x4 Revcon ever made". They were asking $39k and the posting was gone within a few hours. Sold? Fake? Change of heart? My friend asked me why I didn't pursue it. "Because no Big Rear Window Lounge" which to me the a major draw of the LD. Plus I'm done fixing old stuff. Even Bill Shatner's old stuff.

I appreciate the sober realities of retrofitting a heavy, deluxe box. Pulling a little jeep behind, as Larry does, is a sensible alternative. The argument that a raised vehicle will handle worse for the 95% of the time that you're on hard pavement is a strong one. Still, I can't help but contemplate the possibility of an uncompromising perfect vehicle.

That 550 quad with four slides that JonS posted is rather extreme. It's 4x4, yes, but it 37' !!! It's going to high-center on a sidewalk curb. Still, it's pretty neat to see what's out there being built.

Right now I'm pulling a 21' Bigfoot Trailer with a 2001 Ex-Cab Cummins Ram Long Bed. It's a 45' train. But I made it through a muddy field and up a dirt road so steep there were warning signs. I don't like the cumbersome trailer or the old diesel noise, but I don't look forward to giving up the 4x4 traction in order to have my cocktails while looking out the panoramic windows of the rear lounge of an LD.



Re: A Major Lazy Modification. Adding 4x4.
Reply #11 –
Quote from: nikmills  - 
A few days ago there was an interesting 1968 Revcon for sale on craigslist in Eugene, OR. Supposedly it was commissioned by William Shatner and was the "one and only 4x4 Revcon ever made". They were asking $39k and the posting was gone within a few hours. Sold? Fake? Change of heart? My friend asked me why I didn't pursue it. "Because no Big Rear Window Lounge" which to me the a major draw of the LD. Plus I'm done fixing old stuff. Even Bill Shatner's old stuff.

To boldly go where no one has gone before?  :D

Quote from: nikmills  - 
Right now I'm pulling a 21' Bigfoot Trailer with a 2001 Ex-Cab Cummins Ram Long Bed. It's a 45' train. But I made it through a muddy field and up a dirt road so steep there were warning signs. I don't like the cumbersome trailer or the old diesel noise, but I don't look forward to giving up the 4x4 traction in order to have my cocktails while looking out the panoramic windows of the rear lounge of an LD.

Not to discourage buying a Lazy Daze but since you already have a tow vehicle and are not adverse to pulling a trailer, have you considered the small fiberglass 5th wheel made by Escape?  Not quite the big windows of a LD but a pretty good view nonetheless. It's a quality trailer that would reduce your length by about 4 feet. However, you would have to lose the capper and some bed space:

The Escape 5.0 TA - Escape Trailer Industries

Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264
Re: A Major Lazy Modification. Adding 4x4.
Reply #12 –
Thanks. Yes, I have considered small 5th wheels. I've looked at them. It's not out of the question. But truth is I'd like to sell the diesel. The wife doesn't like the noise. I'm not in love with it either. There's nothing stealthy about it.

I don't need the truck for anything else but towing this trailer. I have an old, reliable dodge pickup with a 318 for transporting stuff. But the 318 can't pull this trailer, that's why I bought the diesel. The story gets complicated fast.

I once had an 20' Argosy MH with wrap around rear windows. It needed a lot of engine work and I just used it as a guest house. It never went anywhere. The thing I liked about it was its lounge area and full windows in back. I saw a Lazy Daze the other day and was struck by those big rear windows with the nice "conversation pit" lounge! I'd like to try one and I'll be happy to sell the diesel. The question is can I put up with lack of 4x4? If Bill Shatner wouldn't why should I, right?

 :D

Re: A Major Lazy Modification. Adding 4x4.
Reply #13 –
Blueox25 brings up a good point about the slide-in camper. For sure that's a great solution if you really want to get back in the woods without spending 300k on some monster overland vehicle. The thing is the size of the 21' trailer is just about right, though I'd probably choose a 26.5' LD to have a little more room. I'm working on the road so I need that extra space. At least I think I do.
Re: A Major Lazy Modification. Adding 4x4.
Reply #14 –
Many of the Airstream models have a nice window arrangement.
Not quite up to LD standard but still a decent view.
Host also made that truck in a 27' version.
I've been inside one, it's very spacious with the slide outs. Has a huge king sized bed in the overhead.
However, very little windows and even the 27' model is fairly low to the ground, so not as off road worthy as something lifted.
Adventurer in Canada has something similar. Both too long overall for me, and I don't need the quad cab truck either.

Nobody makes a decent all season lifted RV, at least not within reasonable price range.
Jota
96 23.5 FL
Re: A Major Lazy Modification. Adding 4x4.
Reply #15 –
You might be surprised how much traction four wheels in the rear provide. In mud and snow, I have been impressed a few times, when encountering iffy road surfaces, how well it pulled, even towing the Jeep. The only time wheel spin has been an issue is on ice, something  4X4 doesn't aid greatly with.
In winer, we carry snow cables for the rear axle, cables since chains will not fit in the wheel well with adequate clearance .

If Ford offered a 4X4 version of the E450, I would be interested but it would require a higher GVW to accommodate the increase in the weight of the chassis. Factory 4X4s usually have the drivetrain packed up into the frame, to reduce the need for lifting and to retain stability. After market 4X4 conversions usually sit higher.
Raising the center of gravity just a few inches can adversely effect the handing, which in a MH isn't so great to begin with.

There is no such thing as the prefect vehicle, they all have their limitations. We can find one that best suits our needs, once we understand what our needs really are.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: A Major Lazy Modification. Adding 4x4.
Reply #16 –
Many have tried to meet this 4x4 challenge. Here's a very nice Toyota solution and some Frankenstein machines. The 17' Bigfoot on top of the truck chassis is a clever idea.
If only LD made a trailer I could stick it on top of an ISUZU 4x4 chassis.
In Dinosaur, Colorado I met this guy and his wife who were on their way around the world in the 13th iteration of their motor home / house. They'd been traveling since the 1980s. If no one sells it, make it yourself.
Re: A Major Lazy Modification. Adding 4x4.
Reply #17 –
Quote from: Larry W  - 
"If Ford offered a 4X4 version of the E450, I would be interested but it would require a higher GVW to accommodate the increase in the weight of the chassis. Factory 4X4s usually have the drivetrain packed up into the frame, to reduce the need for lifting and to retain stability. After market 4X4 conversions usually sit higher."

That's a good point. Aftermarket isn't ideal then. I just assumed Ford made a 4x4 E450 and it could be matched with aftermarket parts. As for the traction offered by the dually, that's good to hear. Maybe it would be enough for me.

Re: A Major Lazy Modification. Adding 4x4.
Reply #18 –
I am with Larry - You might be surprised how much traction four wheels in the rear provide.

We have taken our LD down some short, less than a mile, DRY roads where clearance was required. We always scouted them in the Jeep first.

We like nothing but horizon views, but getting a rig up K2 to get away from it all, is just not something that interests me.
Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy
Re: A Major Lazy Modification. Adding 4x4.
Reply #19 –
You can go down to your Ford dealer and order a 4x4 van. It is made by Quigley, but is covered by Fords warranty.
The Quigley system isn't the most up to date or best for off road use.
The U Joint kit is much better and some say makes the van handle and steer better than stock.

My problem is the van front end. I understand it's needed to make RV's shorter overall.

Now, if Lazy Daze were to put their line on the Ford F 450 and F 550, available factory direct with 4x4, diesel option, etc.
I'd be the first in line to have one.
Jota
96 23.5 FL
Re: A Major Lazy Modification. Adding 4x4.
Reply #20 –
Quote from: nikmills  - 
Blueox25 brings up a good point about the slide-in camper. For sure that's a great solution if you really want to get back in the woods without spending 300k on some monster overland vehicle. The thing is the size of the 21' trailer is just about right, though I'd probably choose a 26.5' LD to have a little more room. I'm working on the road so I need that extra space. At least I think I do.

I used to think of our 30' LD as being 30' and never really considered living space. The reality was brought home when we replaced the floor covering from front to back starting immediately behind the driver/passenger seats. When the floor guy told us to buy vinyl flooring in a 21' length it registered that we don't use the engine compartment or the cab area. Plus I suspect that he trimmed some of that 21' length too and I never tried to measure for an accurate number. Your 21' trailer might seem bigger and has got to be bigger than the 27'.

Jim
Re: A Major Lazy Modification. Adding 4x4.
Reply #21 –
Quote from: nikmills  - 
Many have tried to meet this 4x4 challenge. Here's a very nice Toyota solution

If only LD made a trailer I could stick it on top of an ISUZU 4x4 chassis.

Once upon a time...


The Toyota MH looks interesting, I have never seen one.

Spotted this rig in Death Valley two years ago


Another of my favorites, seen repeatedly at Morro Bay.


Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: A Major Lazy Modification. Adding 4x4.
Reply #22 –
(Feel free to ignore the following off-topic bragging. ;-)

"Many of the Airstream models have a nice window arrangement. Not quite up to LD standard but still a decent view."

Speaking only for myself, here's what I have in my 27 FB (front bedroom) Airstream: large 180° wraparound windows in both the front and the back; two large side windows in the dinette/living room; two small side windows in the kitchen; a large window on one side of the bedroom and a smaller window on the other other side. That's five large and one small openable windows (plus two fixed-glass windows), with openable windows on both sides and both ends. As a result, air circulation is superb.

The windows are tinted, but not as darkly as LD windows. They're hinged at the top so that they can be left open even in the rain, as long as the wind isn't too strong. And because they don't overlap when open, you don't get that "one side super-dark" effect when open.

In addition, there are two long, oval "Vista View" windows above the two large windows in the living room. These let in lots of light, while offering privacy because they're up near the roofline. There are also two large skylights and two Fan-Tastic vents (plus smaller exhaust fans in the separate bathroom and shower). And of course there's the entry door, which has its own window.

All in all, this is the brightest and airiest RV I've ever been in. It makes my midbath look dark by comparison. And I loved my midbath!
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: A Major Lazy Modification. Adding 4x4.
Reply #23 –
Nice windows in the rear (again, my main attraction to the LD ) on this machine which I just came across. Champion Telstar is not a brand I know, but it does look pretty clean. I have sworn off anything older than 2000 because I'm tired of fixing things all the time. But I guess I can't help but be attracted to well made stuff, no matter the age. Any comments on the quality comparison with LD? Interesting how they share the continental kit.

The 460 V8 is a really guzzler, I've heard. I assume the V10 is a vast improvement - any comments on this factor when it comes to an old classic like this Champion Telstar ?

(note: the above link is to a Reno craigslist posting which is three days old on May 26, 2019).
Re: A Major Lazy Modification. Adding 4x4.
Reply #24 –
That motorhome sure looks clean for a 1987.  The only real problem is that it is a 1987. 

I had a 1986 F250.  Some of the engines had carburetors and other models were fuel injected.  Fuel injection used less fuel.  My friend had a carbureted 460 and got about 6mpg whether he was loaded or empty.  My fuel injected F250 truck got about 8-9mpg, which is the same as I get with the V10 in the Lazy Daze.  His 460 had great torque, but tended to bend pushrods so often that he carried a few extras in his truck on trips.

The real issue is that ALL of the motorhome is still a 1987. You will be fixing things ALL of the time.  This will be the same with this motorhome and a Lazy Daze of the same vintage.

Good luck.

2014 27 MB
Towd: Either the Jeep Wrangler or trailer containing the BMW R1200GS and 2 E-bicycles
Happy wife=Happy life