Wet area near pump February 17, 2019, 08:42:02 pm So when I winterized our rig awhile ago, I noticed some dark spots on the plywood flooring. I was going to use Teflon tape on the output side of the water pump and torque it down Abit, but I think I remember reading in the manual not to tape it, and to only hand tighten it. Well this weekend we've taken a trip, and just now I noticed a lot of moisture on the plywood. It has been raining pretty good, but I don't see a trail of water heading from the outside. Most of the major wetness is directly under the power distribution box. I felt around the water pump coupling, but couldn't feel any major wetness. I'll pull the pump up when we get home tomorrow and put a bigger fan then the 12v I've got in the rig to completely dry it out. I figure I'll also put down some waterproof something under the pump. We typically use the fresh water tanks, and sometimes keep the pump turned on all the time. I figured as it only runs when building pressure, it wouldn't be a big deal. Is that a wrong assumption? It's probably the original water pump. I'm thinking maybe time to look at a new one? I'd appreciate any advice.Sean
Re: Wet area near pump Reply #1 – February 17, 2019, 10:01:35 pm Sean,I night be "all wet" here, but when I replaced my water pump in our 27MB, I did use Teflon tape on the connecting threaded fittings. I usually read instructions, but I don't recall seeing any instructions to avoid Teflon tape. So far, so good. Everything is dry after a year of use.We always turn off our pump off at night and when we are away from the rig. One of my Lance campers sprung a small leak when we were out hiking and pumped many gallons of water all over our floor before we returned. It isn't a nice sight seeing water leaking out the main door...Turning off the pump and cracking the faucet is easy and relieves pressure in the plumbing. If there is a leak, we can hear it when the pump cycles without our using it.Harold
Re: Wet area near pump Reply #2 – February 18, 2019, 05:50:50 am Sean-Our water pump did not leak, so I can't help you there.As part of the cleanup behind the power center, I chose to move the pump to under the bathroom vanity. That location made it easier to winterize the fresh water system, too. Pictures are here.Mark H
Re: Wet area near pump Reply #3 – February 18, 2019, 07:14:16 am My pump randomly sprung a leak at the strainer bowl, so it may be a good idea to check there
Re: Wet area near pump Reply #4 – February 18, 2019, 09:00:05 am IF you are leaving your pump on and it's not cycling then it's not leaking so I'd look elsewhere for the problem. 1 Likes
Re: Wet area near pump Reply #5 – February 18, 2019, 12:36:32 pm The general role is if the connection is a simple threaded connection turn use tape. This is because it is difficulty I have perfect connection with the threads and the tape helps compensate for any place water might seep through.Do not use tape on compression connections (and I believe flare connections also) as the threads are not what prevents water from coming thru and using tape can actually prevent the connection from working well.I could not find a great picture but a compression fitting, while it has threads, typically has a flexible ring inside one end and fastening the connection tight holds the end of one pipe right against that flexible ring. The flexible ring heldntight against the end of the pipe is what stops water coming out - not the threads (or tape on the threads).A link to read more is at:Compression fitting - WikipediaJaneSent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
Re: Wet area near pump Reply #6 – February 18, 2019, 07:26:04 pm The ShurFlo connections make their seal inside the black threaded cylinders on the pump. The threads do not make the seal. But, for the seal to be good, the threads must be snug. If you cross thread a connection, it is no good any more, so be careful, and if the fitting going into that cylinder gets distorted it will not seal.That being said, the barbed part of the fitting that goes into the hose and is held by a hose clamp will distort, leading to leakage there, if the hose clamp is made too tight. (Guess how I learned that!)Ken F in NM
Re: Wet area near pump Reply #7 – April 23, 2019, 01:08:29 pm So I was able to isolate the issue a bit more on the last trip we took. I believe there is a very small leak on the input side of the pump. It only seems to manifest itself when the fresh water tank is very full. I did tighten down the input connection to the strainer bowl before the trip so it's got to either be the bowl or the connection from the bowl to the pump. I'm going to be pulling it all out in the coming days to try and see if I can find something. I'm hopeful the strainer bowl can be removed and it's not a permanent attachment to the pump. I went to our local CW to take a look at new pumps in case I need to go that route, and all the new ones seem to be much higher pressure then the one that is in the rig now. I think the existing pump is in the 30-40 psi range, while the new ones are in the 50-65 psi range. Although I'd love the higher pressure for showering, I'm very leary of putting more pressure on the old fittings and lines. Am I being too paranoid? Also what are thoughts on installing accumulators? I was trying to explain to the better half why I thought it would be a good idea to install one, but wasn't making a very convincing case. We are thinking about pulling up everything in the pump space so we can add some sort of water proof barrier down there just in case there is a leak that goes unnoticed. It'd be a good time to add one while we have everything out. More than likely also going to put in some water sensing alarm, if I can find one that isn't 120db
Re: Wet area near pump Reply #8 – April 23, 2019, 01:38:14 pm Quote from: henness - April 23, 2019, 01:08:29 pm I was trying to explain to the better half why I thought it would be a good idea to install one, but wasn't making a very convincing case. We are thinking about pulling up everything in the pump space so we can add some sort of water proof barrier down there just in case there is a leak that goes unnoticed. It'd be a good time to add one while we have everything out. More than likely also going to put in some water sensing alarm, if I can find one that isn't 120db ;)Pumps can leak at the inlets, outlet and the gasket between the pump and motor.If your pump is original, the Whisper King model not available anymore. and was too small to begin with for the new, at the time, porcelain toilet to flush properly. I would replace the old pump with a ShurFlo 4008. The slight increase in pressure shouldn't hurt anything.We have a leak detector mounted under the water pump.Zircon 64003 Leak Alert Electronic Water Detector, 1-Pack - Sump Pump...It's loud, as it should be. You do want to know if there is a leak and it should not be a frequent occurrence, so noise isn't a problem.Accumulators do not work well with modern pumps, the 4008 owners manual specifically says not to use an accumulator.I have tried it and it screws up the pump's pressure regulator and causes erratic pump operation.Accumulators were more common when RV water pumps had lower output volumes.Larry 2 Likes As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: Wet area near pump Reply #9 – April 23, 2019, 06:30:37 pm I have been told the same things as Larry, by the pump manufacturer. No accumulators on current pumps. We still have an older pump (not as old as the whisper king) and it is using the accumulator.It isn't broken yet so I am not replacing it, but I will look forward to getting cabinet space back as that accumulator takes up a chunk of space.
Re: Wet area near pump Reply #10 – April 23, 2019, 09:18:18 pm This is unusual - I disagree with Larry. Years ago, I had the Shurflo Extreme 5.7 pump, later found to be badly flawed. With a good bubble in the water heater, all was fine, but when that air began to be absorbed, the expanding water had no place to go as it was heated. I put in a ShurFlo accumulator and the pressure stabilized. Since then I have replaced the pump several times, finally getting a Revolution 4008 which has been fine. I still have the accumulator and a pressure gauge in the system. So far, I have had no problems or issues with that setup.I emphasize that the ShurFlo accumulator is small. and that dedicated attention to keeping an adequate air bubble in the water heater eliminates the benefit of the accumulator. I admit that I am not as attentive to that bubble as I used to be. When I am slow in that regard, the accumulator takes over the function of the water heater air bubble until I get to replacing it.Ken F in NM
Re: Wet area near pump Reply #11 – April 26, 2019, 08:20:03 pm Quote from: Kenneth Fears - April 23, 2019, 09:18:18 pmThis is unusual - I disagree with Larry. Years ago, I had the Shurflo Extreme 5.7 pump, later found to be badly flawed. With a good bubble in the water heater, all was fine, but when that air began to be absorbed, the expanding water had no place to go as it was heated. I put in a ShurFlo accumulator and the pressure stabilized. I emphasize that the ShurFlo accumulator is small. and that dedicated attention to keeping an adequate air bubble in the water heater eliminates the benefit of the accumulator. I admit that I am not as attentive to that bubble as I used to be. When I am slow in that regard, the accumulator takes over the function of the water heater air bubble until I get to replacing it.KenWe don't disagree that much, we are talking about two different uses for an accumulator.. RV accumulators are designed to smooth the water flow, removing the pump's pulsations and to reduce the frequency of on-off cycles, while in use at low flow rates. Using an accumulator to eliminate having to maintain the water heater's air bubble evidently works but is a non standard use.Our 1983 LD has the old Whisper King pump. It pulsated badly and turned on and off rapidly, at low flow rates. Adding an accumulator smoothed the flow and reduced the cycling rate.In our 2003 LD, equipped with a Shurflo 4008, the water heater's air bubble is regularly maintained, adding the accumulator caused problems that may not occur when there is no air bubble. It never occurred to me to try using the accumulator without the air bubble nor would I have wanted to wait for all the air to be absorbed.Newer, bypass pumps, such as the 4008, are able to continue running at low flow rates, when adjusted properly, reducing pulsations and the need for an accumulator. Shuffle recommends not using an accumulator with by-pass pumps.To allow continuous running, at low flow rates, bypass pumps do just that, they bypass a certain amount of water back into the supply side of the pump, to reduce annoying cycling. The pump can be adjust to turn rapidly on and off too, if desire.Larry
Re: Wet area near pump Reply #12 – April 27, 2019, 06:52:06 pm Larry, agreed. When I started, I had a Shurflo Extreme 5.7. My pattern was to heat the water first thing in the morning, so the water in tank was cold. I often let the bubble disappear. I had leaks and pump issues, s being who I am, I put a pressure gauge in the system. The pump was supposed to shut off at 85, if I recall, but I measured pressures of 165. After adding the accumulator, the maximum pressure I recorded was either 100 or 105, if memory serves, and my leaks disappeared.Then I learned about maintaining the air bubble. (Hey - I was a newbie!)Later, having made the change to the Revolution, I weighed the issue of removing the accumulator. I decided, why bother, and left it in. After all, Shurflo had advised against using an accumulator with the Extreme 5.7, but things worked much better with one.If the accumulator ever fails, I doubt that I will replace it. As you said, with a Revolution and a good air bubble, there is no need.Ken F now in OR
Re: Wet area near pump Reply #13 – April 27, 2019, 07:48:11 pm Quote from: Kenneth Fears - April 27, 2019, 06:52:06 pmThen I learned about maintaining the air bubble. (Hey - I was a newbie!)Being a newbie myself, can someone explain this a bit more? I tried looking at the LD companion and searching these forums, but came up blank.
Re: Wet area near pump Reply #14 – April 27, 2019, 08:32:36 pm Sean,Perhaps this YouTube video can answer your question.https://youtu.be/JYSEaw1XRmQKent
Re: Wet area near pump Reply #15 – April 27, 2019, 09:37:32 pm I rarely comment on these discussions, but having a leak from the strainer bowl was the biggest problem I've had, and that includes replacing faucets and shower fittings, the shattering into shreds of the glass on the oven door, even getting a blank screen on my solar panel controller, converting all lights to LEDs, replacing the ignition board on the water heater, and many other issues that I fixed myself. Two problems -- 1. The strainer bowl leak had been "fixed" by Vince at the Mothership by replacing the pump with a Rev 4008, after which the leak got worse! Finally my son figured out that there was an almost invisible hairline crack in the threads of the strainer, and bypassing it entirely has worked for over five years now. Of course I never use anything but excellent filtered water in the tank.2. A couple years later when the pump made noise and quit working, it was because the screws holding it together completely fell out!! Neither Shurflo nor LD Vince had ever heard of such a thing, but replacing the screws with bolts and nuts has fixed it for years now. I did buy a replacement 4008 pump and had bolts installed, but it's still stored as a spare. (Admittedly I seem to drive on horrible roads, towing a car, where no motor home has any business going... especially a solo woman in areas where there's no help available.)Everyone's problems and solutions might be different, but it never hurts to hear about others' experiences.Kristin 1997 MB 2 Likes
Re: Wet area near pump Reply #16 – April 28, 2019, 05:21:16 pm Henness, did Kent's video posting explain your questions? If not, what would you like to hear more about?Ken F in OR
Re: Wet area near pump Reply #17 – April 29, 2019, 12:09:48 pm Quote from: Kenneth Fears - April 28, 2019, 05:21:16 pmHenness, did Kent's video posting explain your questions? If not, what would you like to hear more about?Ken F in ORIt did mostly. I haven't ever seen any leakage from the safety valve. That seems to be the main thing I got out of the video as far as "maintaining the bubble."I picked up a new 4008 this weekend. They didn't have the right strainer bowl so I ordered one from Amazon, and it'll be here today. So this week I get to pull out the old pump and put in the new one. I'll look hard at the old strainer to see if I can see anything.The fresh water tank has a bit over 1/3 water in it at the moment, and everything is bone dry. It only leaks when we fill it over 2/3 or so.
Re: Wet area near pump Reply #18 – April 29, 2019, 04:12:39 pm Henness, you found the leak to be on the input side of the pump. The possibilities are:> the fitting threaded into the pump> the hose connection to that fitting> the hose connection to the output side of the strainer fitting> the strainer fitting, output side> the strainer> the input fitting on the strainer> the hose connection to the input strainer fitting> the hose connection to the tank> the hose itself from the tank to the strainer, and> the hose from the strainer to the pump.Lots of possibilities, huh? To pin it down, wrap each with a piece of paper towel, fill the tank, then look for your leak. Identifying the place that is leaking that way can save you a lot of unnecessary effort. Taking those barb connections apart is NOT easy.If it is the strainer, replace it. If it is any of the threaded fittings, a half turn may stop the leak. Remember that the connection to the pump does not seal on the threads. Rather, the hole on that threaded fitting seals onto the pump connection, so don't crank down on those threads. The barbed fittings are secured by a small band clamp that presses the vinyl hose onto the barb, making a seal. If you overtighten the band clamp, the barb can deform, causing the connection to leak.Have fun!Ken F in OR 1 Likes
Re: Wet area near pump Reply #19 – April 30, 2019, 09:28:15 am One other point of failure - don't ask me how I know - the rubber washer in the strainer is set properly. glen 1 Likes
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