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Topic: Plug and play low cost no brainer solar (Read 530 times) previous topic - next topic
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Plug and play low cost no brainer solar
I'm sitting here in Twin Peaks campground in Organ Pipe Cactus NP in the no generators section running low on battery power and realizing I need solar for this extended sun and fun trip. All I want is a low cost very portable panel that I can clamp to my battery terminals, no muss no fuss.  Any suggestions and or product reviews would be appreciated. Thanks.
Discuss anything with anyone and disagree agreeably. Always be polite and respectful.
Re: Plug and play low cost no brainer solar
Reply #1 –
Quote from: Sawyer  - 
I'm sitting here in Twin Peaks campground in Organ Pipe Cactus NP in the no generators section running low on battery power and realizing I need solar for this extended sun and fun trip. All I want is a low cost very portable panel that I can clamp to my battery terminals, no muss no fuss.  Any suggestions and or product reviews would be appreciated. Thanks.

A solar panel big enough to provide a decent charge will also need a charge controller, to protect the battery .
Something like this 200-watt suitcase panel, with its own controller, may be what you are looking for.
Amazon.com : Renogy 200 Watt Eclipse Monocrystalline Solar Suitcase with...
Amazon has them in stock and can deliver in just a few days.

You will probably want an extension cable too.
Amazon.com : Renogy 20ft. 10AWG Solar Extension Cable with MC4 Female and...

Larry
As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Plug and play low cost no brainer solar
Reply #4 –
Quote from: Joan  - 
Renogy also has a 100W version:

100 Watt 12 Volt Portable Solar Suitcase w/ Voyager| Renogy Solar
Been looking at that one. Part of my issue is getting it in Tucson in the next week. Preferably I'd like one off the shelf but I doubt that's possible.
Discuss anything with anyone and disagree agreeably. Always be polite and respectful.
Re: Plug and play low cost no brainer solar
Reply #5 –
Quote from: tedeboy  - 
I wonder how long it would take that to top off a couple of Trojan T-105's?

Depending on the depth of discharge, it could take days.
100-watts is a minimal amount of charge and with a portable panel, you usually do not have the best cabling and connections to the battery.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Plug and play low cost no brainer solar
Reply #6 –
Quote from: Larry W  - 

Depending on the depth of discharge, it could take days.
100-watts is a minimal amount of charge and with a portable panel, you usually do not have the best cabling and connections to the battery.

Larry
On that issue and assuming i don't allow batteries to get below 12.2 volts wouldn't 100 watt be enough?
Discuss anything with anyone and disagree agreeably. Always be polite and respectful.
Re: Plug and play low cost no brainer solar
Reply #7 –
Assume a 240 amp/hour T105 at 50% says you'll need 120 amp/hour to replace.  At hour noon in perfect sun at best a 10 amp/hour replacement it should take about 12 hours.   A 100 watt panel -  maybe 3 to 5 amp/hour with a 'prefect' controller is the best your could hope for at noon.  

All the about is predicated on prefect conditions with prefect batteries and perfect controllers.  

Now if you had some of those  400 to 600 watts home solar dudes and an industrial controller than all bets are off.......
personal fine art photo stuff
TF Mack | Flickr
It's all good .......
2014 Twin King
Re: Plug and play low cost no brainer solar
Reply #8 –
Don't think I would leave that outside at my campsite while out hiking or biking.  Something like that would disappear pretty quickly!
Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264
Re: Plug and play low cost no brainer solar
Reply #9 –
Quote from: HiLola  - 
Don't think I would leave that outside at my campsite while out hiking or biking.  Something like that would disappear pretty quickly!

Folding panels are similar to portable generators, they often grow feet.
Gasoline and propane containers are known to have similar traits.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Plug and play low cost no brainer solar
Reply #10 –
We are very frugal with our power, during the day probably only the frig and at night one light at a time and they are all LED.
We probably have about 16 hours of sun in July and August. I still lean towards the 200 Watt panel. Would I be accurate in my thinking? We have the standard LD battery setup.

Jon.....
1994 MB
Re: Plug and play low cost no brainer solar
Reply #11 –
Expanding on ColdDog's excellent response, one T-105 at 50% needs 120 amp-hours to recharge.  A 100 watt panel charging at 14.4 volts would be about 7 amps.  If you do that for 1 hour, that is 7 amp-hours.  I assume you have two batteries, so you would need 240 amp-hours for your full charge of 13.4 volts, or about 34 hours of charging time.  These short days mean you are likely to "score" no more than 6 hours charging per day, so that is about 6 days, assuming you are re-aligning the panel with the sun every hour to obtain maximum energy input, and assuming you do not use the batteries at all during those 6 days...

I don't think a 100 watt panel is going to do much for you.

Ken F in NM
'08 MB
 
Re: Plug and play low cost no brainer solar
Reply #12 –
Quote from: JonS  - 
We are very frugal with our power, during the day probably only the frig and at night one light at a time and they are all LED.
We probably have about 16 hours of sun in July and August. I still lean towards the 200 Watt panel. Would I be accurate in my thinking? We have the standard LD battery setup.

Jon.....

Jon, you use electricity like we do, which is hardly at all. Our ‘06 TK came with the single 100 watt panel and the HV22 controller. Like you, our daytime use has been to power whatever 12-volt control boards the rig uses, the water pump, occasionally some music, and to recharge our iPads, etc.  At night, we mostly get along with one light at a time, and have recently switched over to largely using Luci-lights for general illumination (and yes, you can read by them). Over the years, we also have used battery power to watch tv (using a small inverter) for up to a couple of hours of the occasional evening. Admittedly, this is much less electric usage than most here on the forum. BUT, and this is my point, in 12 years of camping like this we have never depleted the two Trojans below 80% (Link-Pro battery monitor) and our single 100 watt panel has been able to keep things charged adequately in all sorts of seasons and weather conditions.  So, like others have said here, what you need is really dependent on what you plan to use.
— the other Jon
(Former) ‘06 TK “Albatross.” And (former) Vespa 250.   Alas, no more; both are gone.😕 Great memories remain! 😄
Re: Plug and play low cost no brainer solar
Reply #13 –
Quote from: Jon & Loni  - 
Jon, you use electricity like we do, which is hardly at all. Our ‘06 TK came with the single 100 watt panel and the HV22 controller. Like you, our daytime use has been to power whatever 12-volt control boards the rig uses, the water pump, occasionally some music, and to recharge our iPads, etc.  At night, we mostly get along with one light at a time, and have recently switched over to largely using Luci-lights for general illumination (and yes, you can read by them). Over the years, we also have used battery power to watch tv (using a small inverter) for up to a couple of hours of the occasional evening. Admittedly, this is much less electric usage than most here on the forum. BUT, and this is my point, in 12 years of camping like this we have never depleted the two Trojans below 80% (Link-Pro battery monitor) and our single 100 watt panel has been able to keep things charged adequately in all sorts of seasons and weather conditions.  So, like others have said here, what you need is really dependent on what you plan to use.
— the other Jon
Pretty much what we do and I'm thinking with daily AZ sun 100 watts should be enough. As for these units walking away I'm seeing lots of them in my travels down here first in Death Valley and now in AZ. In campgrounds people leave them out all day while gone hiking or whatever. Boondocking in dispersed sites may indeed be a different story and I'll probably put it away when gone from camp or figure some way to lock it up. I brought a logging chain for the bikes but if we are gone biking I could conceivably use it to lock the solar panel to something. I'll have to see what kind of handle or holes they have and that may help determine what I buy.
Discuss anything with anyone and disagree agreeably. Always be polite and respectful.
Re: Plug and play low cost no brainer solar
Reply #14 –
As an addendum I have to say what a nice campground this is. Lots of hiking and biking right from camp with dog friendly trails and a free shuttle service to the far end of hikes that start here. Having said that, after another hike or two we plan on boondocking a while. The campground scene gets old no matter how nice it is. Do guys with guitars really think everyone wants to hear them play every evening?
Discuss anything with anyone and disagree agreeably. Always be polite and respectful.
Re: Plug and play low cost no brainer solar
Reply #15 –
Quote from: Sawyer  - 
The campground scene gets old no matter how nice it is. Do guys with guitars really think everyone wants to hear them play every evening?

Bring your bagpipes and play at the same time and I suspect that will solve the problem!   ;D  O:)

Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264
Re: Plug and play low cost no brainer solar
Reply #16 –
Hi everyone:

I second Jon's blog 100 %.  We have a 2007, 31 foot island bed LD with 1 100 watt solar panal.  We mostly have boondocked
for the past 11 years all over the US, Canada and to Alaska.  Only 233 hours on the Ginny which mostly have been monthly maintenance.    Only once did we run batteries down below 11 volts, but quickly charged using the coach engine.

I am amazed at the 12 power usage by the LD group.  We have never have wanted for 12 power.  No restriction on using the heater on colder a.m. or tv at night.  So far so good, I only hope we can still manage for another several years.

Bob
2007 31 IB
Re: Plug and play low cost no brainer solar
Reply #17 –
Batteries discharged to 50% are going to take days to recover using even 200W of solar and an efficient MPPT controller, during this time of year. If you have the oem converter, even running the engine will take hours to make any difference. With all our upgrades, our rig fully recharges every day early on, but rarely are we down more than 20 A-hrs in the morning. My advice is - don't throw too much money at a temporary solution, but plan to avoid future problems by doing strategic upgrades in the near future. Our rig:

200W solar with MPPT controller
Multi-stage 55A converter
All LED interior lighting
All possible electronics 12V without an inverter

As possible, run all high-current devices in the daytime, powered by solar. Battery charging is less than 100% efficient, so 20 A-hrs charging may only yield 15 A-hrs actual retained charge, e.g. Understand that panel ratings are unrealistically high. Solar panels are rated at 1 sun (noon at equator) at 72 F, conditions that do not exist in nature, let alone within US borders.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit
Re: Plug and play low cost no brainer solar
Reply #18 –
"Understand that panel ratings are unrealistically high."

Agreed. For example, I have 600 watts on the roof, heavy-gauge wiring with less than 2% voltage drop, and a very efficient MPPT charging controller, but the most I've seen was a little over 400 watts under clear skies at noon. As a rule of thumb, figure on averaging about half the watts your panels are rated for, with up to two thirds in (rare) ideal conditions.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Plug and play low cost no brainer solar
Reply #19 –
"All I want is a low cost very portable panel that I can clamp to my battery terminals, no muss no fuss."

That limits you to the "solar suitcase" type, because they are the only ones with built-in (usually low-tech) charging controllers. You'll pay about twice as much per watt and get less efficient charging. That may be worth it to you for plug-and-play convenience. On the other hand, "Fix the problem right now with the least possible trouble" may not lead to the best solution in the long run.

Most folks prefer a more conventional setup with a standard panel or panels (now selling for a little over a dollar a watt) and a small controller such as Victron's MPPT 75/15. It doesn't have to be complicated or cumbersome, and you'll get a lot more power for your dollar. Lay the panel on the ground, prop it up with a stick to face the sun, and you're in business.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Plug and play low cost no brainer solar
Reply #20 –
Sawyer,

When we were buying our LD Ed Newton at the factory talked with us about the options we were considering. When it came to solar panels he wasn't particularly enthusiastic, I think feeling they didn't have a good cost/benefit ratio.

He said if the batteries get low just start and run the engine for awhile. Quieter than the generator, with better battery charging and it's something you already have, not something extra to buy.

I was having none of that, exited about boondocking and independence and all that. But since then I've seen that in some ways Ed was right. There are many circumstances where solar isn't that great. Tree cover, such as is often the case in the east or northwest. Winter, especially up north. Inclement weather. Of course you have none of those now, so solar would be great if you had it, but you don't. And I think Andy makes some good points about doing it right if you're going to do it.

I'd say for the time being you should just run the engine for about 45 minutes or an hour, perhaps in late morning when campground occupancy is often low, and then keep your electrical use low. If you're worried about doing that in the "no generator" area, just drive to the visitor center or something and do it there.

And you could always drive to New Mexico, which has some nice cheap state parks many of which have electrical sites. For some reason we especially liked Pancho Villa State Park in Columbus on the border south of Las Cruces on a recent fall trip. Hook up, pop a beer and relax, then go to the Borderland Cafe, just a short walk away, for a meal. Lot of history there and very relaxing.



Terry
2003 26.5'RB
Gardnerville, NV
Re: Plug and play low cost no brainer solar
Reply #21 –
"just run the engine for about 45 minutes or an hour"

I have a different point of view on that. First, extended idling isn't the best thing for your engine. Second, and more to the point, it's a very inefficient way to charge, as I can testify from personal experience early in my RVing career. To begin with, the alternator in a 1997 rig isn't that powerful. And it's designed to put out full power only at highway speed--not when idling-So even if you had a high-powered alternator (which you don't), you wouldn't be getting anywhere near that much at idle. And finally, the alternator isn't particularly well regulated, and at idle the chances are that it will never get your batteries much above 85%.

In a dire emergency, yeah, give it a try. But it's not a good solution in the long run. I know--I tried it, and I got the cracked exhaust manifold to prove it. ;-)

Terry's right about tree cover reducing the usefulness of solar panels. It's easy for those of us in the sunny Southwest to forget about that, but whenever I've headed back east or up to the Pacific Northwest, I've been reminded of it. I've managed to get around it most times by laying a couple of panels on the ground in a sunny spot, but there will be times when even that isn't enough. Sure beats no solar panels at all, though! :-)
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Plug and play low cost no brainer solar
Reply #22 –

Couple of newbie related questions.
1) Any experience/thoughts on flexible solar panels? Seems one could tape them to top of roof and seal with Dicor. No drilling into roof or using mounts. They may also be lighter to use as free standing panels.

Amazon.com : ECO-WORTHY 160w Flexible Solar Panel 12 Volt Lightweight Kit...

Not sure if heat is dissipated would be a problem from bottom of panel if mounted on roof.

2) Are flex panels an option to place in front windshield to use during storage in winter (In Michigan) to keep batteries charged. It would eliminate having to clean snow off roof.  Once again not sure heat would be a problem. They could be dual purposed as outside standalone in Summer.

Ron

As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Ron and Linda
Ada Michigan
Re: Plug and play low cost no brainer solar
Reply #23 –
Got to the 'Community' tab on the home page of the message board, click 'Search', type in 'flexible solar panels'; several posts on this topic.
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Plug and play low cost no brainer solar
Reply #24 –
Twice now I've dumped my tanks before it was necessary in order to run my motor and charge the batteries. I can milk a good half hour of running the motor by taking my time and chugging along slowly to and from the dump station. It doesn't really put much charge in the batteries.
Lots of good info and points of view in this thread and my thanks to everyone. This reminds me of research for my off grid home that I did over ten years ago. Some said I needed ten solar panels, twenty batteries and a 5000 watt generator while others said far less was necessary. It kind of depends on lifestyle and appliances. If you want an off grid home indistinguishable from suburbia you need a mega solar system but if you are willing to scale down usage and go with propane appliances you need far less. I opted for the minimalist approach with two solar panels, six batteries and a Honda 2000 generator. That has worked great for us.
Similarly I'm getting advice in here that also runs the gamut and once again I think I will take the minimalist route. We usually don't stay in one spot over a week and are extremely frugal with electricity opting to pour water from a container instead of using the pump for flushing and doing dishes. Don't watch TV and spend minimum amount of time with tablets and phone using them mostly to research places to go and things to do. I'm breaking that rule here with this forum but it's in quest of solar ideas so I'm giving myself a pass. I feel a small100 watt portable will keep our batteries topped off with limited electric use and will do fine between drive days. Thanks again for all the advice. It has helped me in this decision.
One thing on solar though. These solar showers in Organ Pipe suck! The recovery rate is far too slow for the amount of use they get and I haven't had a hot or even warm shower yet. Thirty years ago I needed a cold shower now and then but not so much these days. :)
One other thing is I think I also need new batteries. These came with the rig and i have no idea how old they are but they dont seem to last long with the very limited use they get. I may be better off buying new batteries before opting for solar panels. Something to think about.
Discuss anything with anyone and disagree agreeably. Always be polite and respectful.