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Topic: Is it time to throw in the towel? (Read 1696 times) previous topic - next topic
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Is it time to throw in the towel?
Perhaps I should write a pamphlet for all those starry eyed hopefuls looking to buy a "vintage" LD that really goes into all the things that really can and do go wrong.  Yes, I was warned, and no, I didn't listen.

Just picked up my LD from the shop that replaced the alternator, which luckily still had 3 days on the warranty. Admittedly, that was not the fault of the LD.  Now it's running again. I drove it home from the shop (about 3 miles) and there was NO propane smell this time. That's a plus.

Unfortunately, despite new alternator and battery now charging again, and putting gas in the tank because I knew it was very, very low, the gas gauge still registered as "full" the entire time. I put in 10 gallons and could have kept going. Once parked, on a slight list to the right, it went down to 3/4 tank. This stuck gauge started after the first tow (it had less than a 1/4 tank when it was towed and nobody added gas).

New issue - speedometer has stopped working! It worked last time I drove it, right before it was towed. So how did this happen?

I am taking it to an RV place on Monday to have the propane issue checked out, the solar panel/charging looked at, and various other stuff. The shop that replaced the alternator said that the various cables were old and worn and did not make a great connection. They did not feel well versed in RVs enough to try and replace them because they said the cables went to the RV portion, too, and it looked like specialty cables were required.

The vehicle is running. It does not smell like propane. I'm finally kind of comfortable driving it.  Because of my concussion last year and various other things, I have not even had a chance to really do anything with it. It has had the following work done since I purchased it:

Transmission rebuilt
New alternator (2!)
New tires
Brake work (new rotors, seals , calipers, pads, new front hoses)
Rear shoes adjusted
Idler arm and right side tie rod replaced.
Alignment of front suspension
Rear lights cleaned out and connections fixed
New ladder and hole patched where I backed up and pushed ladder into rear wall
Propane tank regulator replaced
New rear bumper

All told there has been $12000+ work put into this thing since I bought it, though insurance covered $5500 and the seller paid ~$3k for the transmission. 

I really want the opportunity to actually use this thing, but I'm wondering if it will ever be able to go more than 10 miles or a month without something going wrong.

I don't need to be reminded that you all told me so. I am well aware.  I think if I'd not suffered a head injury last year shortly after buying my LD, things would not feel quite so acute, but I'm where I am now, and wondering if continuing to try and make this thing work is a hopeless endeavor.

Thanks,

Lisa



1991 22' LD Multi-Plan
Re: Is it time to throw in the towel?
Reply #1 –
Lisa, in 15 years when you are sitting around the campfire at one of the GTG, your 'war stories' will be a great topic.
And,  some of us will remember back to the first postings.
You are building a history here.....
Hang in there. 
See you down the road.
Joel
Joel & Terry Wiley
dog Zeke
2013  31 IB   Orwan   / 2011 CRV Tow'd LWEROVE
Re: Is it time to throw in the towel?
Reply #2 –
"This stuck gauge started after the first tow (it had less than a 1/4 tank when it was towed and nobody added gas)."

Lisa

In reading your last post (paraphrased above) I am curious! Do you know if, during that tow, the tow person disconnected the drive shaft?

I would guess that most everyone on this board is aware that the driveshaft MUST be disconnected while towing. Most tow truck drivers should know it as well.

I'm not totally familiar with the reason or need for this precaution but just perhaps it has something to do with your problems. I'm hopeful that wiser folks will chime in here because I'd like to know the answer myself.  Larry?   :(
Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Cedar
2004 30'IB (Island Bed)
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery
Live for the day!
Re: Is it time to throw in the towel?
Reply #3 –
Quote from: Lazy Bones  - 
"This stuck gauge started after the first tow (it had less than a 1/4 tank when it was towed and nobody added gas)."

Lisa

In reading your last post (paraphrased above) I am curious! Do you know if, during that tow, the tow person disconnected the drive shaft?

I would guess that most everyone on this board is aware that the driveshaft MUST be disconnected while towing. Most tow truck drivers should know it as well.

I don't know, but would I have been able to drive it if it was still disconnected??

Lisa G.
1991 22' LD Multi-Plan
Re: Is it time to throw in the towel?
Reply #4 –
though insurance covered $5500

Was that from backing into the ladder?
Discuss anything with anyone and disagree agreeably. Always be polite and respectful.
Re: Is it time to throw in the towel?
Reply #5 –
"...would I have been able to drive it if it was still disconnected??"

It would seem that you are not visualizing the picture. Any tow truck driver worth his salt would disconnect the drive shaft prior to towing the RV and reconnect it when the destination is reached, as part of the routine. Thereafter you would have been able to drive the rig.

The questions is, if the drive shaft was not disconnected, did it damage anything, i.e. the speedometer system?  ::)
Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Cedar
2004 30'IB (Island Bed)
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery
Live for the day!
Re: Is it time to throw in the towel?
Reply #6 –
Is it time to throw in the towel?

To address the question in your subject line; maybe, maybe not. It really depends on how much time and money you want to spend dealing with this particular motorhome, considering all the other things that seem to be going on in your life right now. Only you can decide that. Best of luck in your decision.  :)
Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264
Re: Is it time to throw in the towel?
Reply #7 –
Lisa, I understand your dilemma, but you're really the only one who can decide if it's worth continuing to pump time, energy, and cash into this motorhome. You've spent a lot in repairs; that's a good bit of money that you are unlikely to recover if you sell. However, it's a given that the rig is very likely to need more work, probably for additional repairs, replacements, and/or upgrades, and also simply for routine services and maintenance.

Where I might see using this rig for 'local' camping and/or travel, I would be very uneasy traveling any distance; 'waiting for the other shoe to drop' with what appears to be an unreliable vehicle is not a comfortable feeling.

I wish you luck with your decision. 







2003 TK has a new home
Re: Is it time to throw in the towel?
Reply #8 –
I suggest selling since additional repairs would be more stress you don't need.   Maybe you can find something 3-5 years old (not necessarily an LD) at an affordable (?) price.  Have it inspected before the purchase.   That should give you a more reliable rig that you can enjoy.     Frank
plan B - 2023 Travato
Re: Is it time to throw in the towel?
Reply #9 –
Lisa.
The older the rig the more frustrating the experience.
November 2016 won 88 MB on an Ebay bid I should have lost. $5,000.  It had been sitting 3 years on a shore power.
Dec 2016 7 new tires, $1200.
Dec 2016  New coach batteries, $250. by me.
 Second Child came back home, moved into LD
2017,  automatic Transfer switch. $100, by me.
Installed 200 watts Solar by me.
Dec 2017 Second Child moved out.
June 2018, Exhaust leaks, AC leaks, Overdrive install, $6000, by shop.
Overdrive $3000, by me.
August 2018, 3000 miles.  Exhaust leaks Warranty.  Rear Brakes, radiator, $2500.
Nov 2018, Engine had no go, 5 MPH tops, 100 miles from home,  Catalytic Converter. $1200, plus AAA tow home.
Jan 2019 BLISS!, successful trip, propane station cannot connect to Propane tank. I got it connected???
Generator  is still Non Operating.
It is a long path.
Rodney
1988 Mid Bath
Re: Is it time to throw in the towel?
Reply #10 –
As others have mentioned, you either buy an older rig for less $ and be prepared to pay mucho $ to repair and replace things, then to maintain it; or pay big $ to purchase newer, also preparing to spend $ to repair, replace things and maintain it. Either way, you pay. As Larry often reminds us, RVing is not an inexpensive hobby.
Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264
Re: Is it time to throw in the towel?
Reply #11 –
"It is a long path."
----
A path that ends for an owner when s/he sells the rig, but until then....  ;)

Even if a rig is in good condition when it's bought, maintenance needs are numerous and ongoing, and any 'path' is made a lot more rocky if one is not able (for any number of reasons) to do at least some, if not most or all, of the repairs, replacements, and upgrades to help manage maintenance expenses. Even if one can afford to hire out the work, there is still the problem of locating competent, skilled repair facilities, and the down time/non-use while the rig is in whichever shop(s) is/are needed.

An old(er) rig can be a good buy for someone who has the time, skills, knowledge, and cash to diagnose, repair, and/or replace all of the warts; if a buyer is not one of those people, or s/he buys a rig (any rig) without a thorough, professional inspection and then experiences a never-ending 'wart revelation',  disappointment and disillusionment are likely to really dull the shine on one's plans for adventure on the open road. RVs are complex machines, and there is a very long list of things that can - and do - go wrong, even with the best built rigs, and without diligent, timely, and savvy maintenance, it's a sure thing that plenty of stuff will leak, collapse, shred, rust, fall off, blow up, corrode, seize up, or otherwise go south.

A seller, private or a dealer, aware of a rig's issues or not, will not necessarily offer full disclosure of a rig's issues and repair needs. Some sellers are honest, straightforward, and knowledgeable about what they're selling, but some are not; it's the responsibility of the buyer to educate himself/herself about how to assess the quality and condition of the rig objectively.

There are probably quite a few people who have wished for a do-over after a 'regrettable' RV buy; maybe this is part of the learning curve, but it's often an expensive lesson.  :(  I just hope that the reports of 'buyer's remorse' on this forum resonate with those who are looking for LDs, particularly older models.

As ever, YMMV.




 
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Is it time to throw in the towel?
Reply #12 –
My dear departed Father once told me that when purchasing a used car be ready to spend another $1,000 on it above the purchase price to bring it up to specs.

As RVs are far and away more complicated than an automobile, my Dads rule can seemingly be multiplied by a factor of 10 in a worse case scenario.

There is obviously a stage at which repairs to a used RV of any ilk will reach the “all done” point. Hopefully the bank or spirit is not broken at that point.

We purchased new “because”. That’s it. That’s what my Mom used to say when I asked her “why”. There was no point in going any further. She had spoken. My father also advised to “cut your loses” when spending for repairs on an old car.

Rabbit holes are difficult to climb out of once you’ve gone done them. At this point, Lisa, if you haven’t already gotten a newly revised assessment of your LD’s prognosis for successful repair you may want to have a pro take a look and advise you on the wise course of action to take.

You’ve done a lot, so far. Professional advise may help you in making any decisions at this point. Best of luck to you and any other used LD owner. Like Joan said, RVs are expensive...start to finish.

Kent
2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"
Re: Is it time to throw in the towel?
Reply #13 –
Yes, buying an older rig carries risks. I can't speak for Lisa, but in her pre-purchase messages she made it clear that she was expecting to spend a significant amount of money on repairs and maintenance and had budgeted for that. She wasn't a stereotypical naive buyer.

But she got hit with multiple major, scary problems, one after another--transmission work, major brake work, propane leakage--plus a slew of less major issues, such as two new alternators. Finding competent technicians who didn't have an attitude problem made it that much more difficult... and doing all this while selling her house and moving out made it a complete nightmare.

Now she's "wondering if it will ever be able to go more than 10 miles or a month without something going wrong." You can't blame her for losing confidence, after all that's happened.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Is it time to throw in the towel?
Reply #14 –
My dad used to say "getting old is not for sissies" and I think the same could be said for buying a motor Home , especially an older one. You have to be mentally and financially prepared to cope with the inevitable problems that are going to pop up as you and your motor home start falling apart in tandem. You both are going to start breaking down and going in for repairs and seeing doctors-mechanics more than you used to. Things will start sagging, blood-oil pressure won't be what it once was.  Just have to take this stuff in stride and be glad your hear to complain about it while tooling down the road in your body-motorhome  that could break down any minute, maybe even catastrophically. Carpe diem.
Discuss anything with anyone and disagree agreeably. Always be polite and respectful.
Re: Is it time to throw in the towel?
Reply #15 –
Once again I am not receiving notifications for replies, so had no idea there were a bunch of them.

I tried driving my LD to RV shop in San Leandro today (15 miles away).  Got on freeway (using speedometer app on my phone), and the engine sounded like it was really straining though app measured only 38 mph! I got off freeway and the LD died at first stop light (had been driving fine until I got on freeway). Stuck on the street, tow truck came within 15 minutes (now i know exactly who to call and ask for!)

Turns out San Leandro RV  does not do any engine work, ONLY RV stuff. Ugh. But they called to say they did a pressure teest and found the likely source of the propane smell- bad solenoid in the hot water heater. They also said the house battery is totally dead and probably shot and that's why the solar panels not charging. They were going to hook it up to a trickle charger to test it.  He said the cables to the engine battery aren't bad, but the contacts are corroded and need to be sanded, and the battery isolater (?) was likely not good. He believes this may be the reason the battery went dead again despite the new alternator.

He's going to get back to me with an estimate, but initial number was ~$6-700.  I am not holding my breath. 

As for the tow- I asked the driver today if he ever undid the drive shaft to tow- he said no, as that would take much more labor and cost alot more, so they don't take it on the freeway, only city streets (which explains why it took him over an hour to arrive at the first RV shop that then turned him away!). Today I drove in the truck with him and we took city streets all the way. It was slow and very, very bumpy. My bladder was crying. (Sorry if that's TMI).

Does this mean that my vehicle is now probably fried from all the tows without d/c ing the drive shaft? Is that perhaps the reason for the bad freeway experience? 

I feel screwed. And not in a good way.

Lisa
1991 22' LD Multi-Plan
Re: Is it time to throw in the towel?
Reply #16 –
Good info on being towed.

When You Have to be Towed
Discuss anything with anyone and disagree agreeably. Always be polite and respectful.
Re: Is it time to throw in the towel?
Reply #17 –
Lisa,
I hope things improve for you! 
Relay contacts get corroded and are cleaned by sanding or filing.  Just like battery connections.  The battery isolator could be a relay or a pair of diodes in and aluminum block.
My guess is you will be getting a new valve,  Battery isolator , and coach batteries, for $700. Looks like a good price, $400 in parts plus labor.

The drive shaft removal for towing is they should.  But even the Ford and Chevrolet  operators manuals,if you still have one, usually lists the limits for towing with the drive shaft connected. Like less than 5 miles below 25 mph etc.  The issue becomes cooling without a working oil pump in the automatic transmission and lack of air flow through the radiator.

In 2015 my 1991 Ford E250 with E4OD transmission was towed connected 50 miles on the bumper  50 mph at 35F, near freezing in the February 2015 Wyoming storms, without any apparent issues(AAA sub contract tow).  And I asked about disconnecting.  Now towed this way, the fluid flows back to the drive shaft the bands and clutches inside should be loose, so who knows. It is still working 20,000 miles later.
In Dec 2017 the 1991 was towed San Jose to Milpitas, 7 miles city and freeway 55 mph at 50F  and AAA(Great America Tow) disconnected the drive shaft.
The 1991 rig's bigger issue is the Ford Ignition Module used with the EEC-IV engine Computer and the fuel pump electrical interconnection.

My 88 MB on a Ford E350 was disconnected when towed 75 miles from Hollister to Milpitas, 55 mph at 50F day. by a sub contract tow.

At this point; if the transmission still works, it survived.  If it does not I hope it is warranty on the builder. ( 38 MPH Limited Issue).
Rodney
1988 Mid Bath
Re: Is it time to throw in the towel?
Reply #18 –
My cousin and financial advisor, Guido, asked if it was insured against "fire, theft and accidents".  He knows a guy who knows a guy...
2014 27 MB
Towd: Either the Jeep Wrangler or trailer containing the BMW R1200GS and 2 E-bicycles
Happy wife=Happy life
Re: Is it time to throw in the towel?
Reply #19 –
Quote from: Blueox25  - 
My cousin and financial advisor, Guido, asked if it was insured against "fire, theft and accidents".  He knows a guy who knows a guy...
When I was in my early twenties I worked at  a campground out of Nevada City California as a caretaker one winter when logging was shut down. A neighbor turned out to be one Sonny Barger, president of Oakland chapter Hells Angels. He had a little cabin-hideout on forty acres right up the road from us. I met him along the dirt road one day when he and a friend were cutting firewood and got their saw pinched.  I had my saw and cut them out and after that it was like I was his best buddy. (I later found out he was known for saying "Treat me good I'll treat you better treat me bad I'll treat you worse") and I definitely made his better list. His GF must have made his worse list because she showed up at our trailer one day naked in two feet of snow saying "Sonny kicked me out."
 Anyway I had a motorcycle I wanted to sell but it had motor issues and I knew I wouldn't get much for it. Sonny graciously offered to have it stolen if I left it parked in town as soon as weather permitted. It was a very tempting offer!
Discuss anything with anyone and disagree agreeably. Always be polite and respectful.
 
Re: Is it time to throw in the towel?
Reply #20 –
Wow!  Sonny Barger was a big name, back in the day. Hell's Angels were not to be trifled with then, or now.

In my youth, one of my acquaintances joined Hell's Angels.  He came by with a couple of his new friends from the club to admire my Corvair Spyder. A few nights later the Corvair disappeared.  It was not insured for theft.

Guido isn't really his name, but he does exist, sells insurance and does financial consulting and tax preparation. Miraculously, after a few months of mechanical problems on his boat, it sunk at the dock for a total loss, but fully insured.  What a coincidence.

I have passed on the opportunity to have him do my financial consulting, tax preparation, or insurance.
2014 27 MB
Towd: Either the Jeep Wrangler or trailer containing the BMW R1200GS and 2 E-bicycles
Happy wife=Happy life
Re: Is it time to throw in the towel?
Reply #21 –
Quote from: Blueox25  - 
Guido isn't really his name, but he does exist, sells insurance and does financial consulting and tax preparation. Miraculously, after a few months of mechanical problems on his boat, it sunk at the dock for a total loss, but fully insured.  What a coincidence.

I have passed on the opportunity to have him do my financial consulting, tax preparation, or insurance.

Does Guido look something like the guy on the left?

Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264
Re: Is it time to throw in the towel?
Reply #22 –
OK, guys, let's give Guido a rest and get back on topic. Lisa needs our help.

Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Re: Is it time to throw in the towel?
Reply #24 –
There was a derelict, non-op mid-80s TK for sale last month at the lot where we store our rig. The lot is contained within a largish .5-1 sq mile mature/late stage oil field dating from the original 1920s oil strikes.

There's a handful of quonset huts that are rented out to some cottage industry types involved in off-road design, mfg & sales. Basically, many of the guys behind current (fashion) trends in 4x4, MX, etc.

Well, I was over running the engine for its requisite 30 min/month routine, when one of the guys wandered over to say hello. Of course, what he was really interested in was getting my opinion about the TK for sale.

I gave him a brief run-down on my take to even get it running, but he headed me off by explaining that he simply wanted to flip it to some Burning man hipsters. He has a very tricked out off-road capable Sprinter plastered with his marketing logos, and he laughed when he mentioned that not a week goes by that some hipster dude asks him if he'd like to sell.

So, his idea was to get the LD on the cheap, do a wrap, but on some fake rim bolt wheels, and basically pimp it out as a pseudo-off road capable RV. His partner then came over and we were having a good time going thru the numbers and what it could possibly sell for.

I think in the end he figured if he couldn't get it for around $2-4k that it wouldn't be worthwhile to make any money off of it. Since your rig is actually running, and you're even closer to the Burning man venue (with perhaps even more hipster types), you might think about marketing it as a cool festival mobile.

Honestly, anyone older/more sensible who is actually thinking buying, fixing and using the rig will have much higher expectations. Maybe explore the greater fool market segment to see what types of bites you might get.

As for ongoing service, maintenance and repairs, it's a never ending cycle. Our rig actually runs unreal, but I'm still not satisfied with the return on the amount of time, money and effort we've put into it. For what I've done, it should be sparkling. So, mentally I've been reaching the end-of-the line and have been recently pestering Andy about information regarding the possibilities of following him over to the dark side.