Transit vs E450 February 14, 2019, 08:10:00 pm So, I'm walking along the bike/pedestrian beach strand and see two ambulances parked next to each other a bit ahead. As I get closer, it's clear they are just sort of hanging out, maybe waiting on a potential call from a nearby event or what have you. One crew is outside talking to the other crew sitting inside their ambulance - both vehicles are running.As I get closer, I notice the one crew still sitting is in an E450, while the other which the crew are outside and talking to the E450 guys is a dually Transit. Both vehicles appear brand new.They're pulled right up to the walkway curb, so since I'm around 3-5' from them as I pull alongside, a sudden thought comes to me. Hey, you guys, got a quick question. Yes? Which chassis do you prefer, the Transit or E450?Care to take a guess at the response? Hint, it was immediate and unanimous, without any hesitation. They even knew the specs, and extolled the virtues of the ready made platform vs the pretender. LOL. So I guess Larry has been right all along.Oh, by the way, here's more truck porn:2020 Ford Super Duty - New F-250 and F-350 Debut With 7.3-Liter Gasoline V8Now, imagine the ease by which this sucker could haul a nice 25' Airstream down the road. I'll be the first to admit having a class C is a nice convenience. But the tech improvements happening in the hyper-competitive truck segment is on overload. Own a fixed coach, and you can swap out a leased truck every 3 years. 2 Likes
Re: Transit vs E450 Reply #1 – February 14, 2019, 11:09:27 pm Here's where you can get ONEA bit shorter than a 24TK, and I don't think the rear accommodations are as comfortable.It's a bit more costly too, but that's probably why their rates are what they are.I think I'll stay with what I've got. Spent enough time in those things. 1 Likes
Re: Transit vs E450 Reply #2 – February 15, 2019, 01:36:04 pm As I get closer, I notice the one crew still sitting is in an E450, while the other which the crew are outside and talking to the E450 guys is a dually Transit. Both vehicles appear brand new.They're pulled right up to the walkway curb, so since I'm around 3-5' from them as I pull alongside, a sudden thought comes to me. Hey, you guys, got a quick question. Yes? Which chassis do you prefer, the Transit or E450?Care to take a guess at the response? Hint, it was immediate and unanimous, without any hesitation. They even knew the specs, and extolled the virtues of the ready made platform vs the pretender. LOL. So I guess Larry has been right all along.Assuming the Transit was a HD 350 Diesel. Curious to know why they preferred one over the other as it could be an Apples to Oranges comparison depending on use and needs.Hutch
Re: Transit vs E450 Reply #3 – February 15, 2019, 04:58:26 pm And then there’s this:Pleasure-Way Tofino - Pleasure-Way IndustriesI’ve heard various people make negative comments about Road Trek. Anybody here have any actual experience with Pleasure Way? 1 Likes
Re: Transit vs E450 Reply #4 – February 15, 2019, 06:13:33 pm "an Apples to Oranges comparison depending on use and needs."---Absolutely. The Ford Transit and the E-450 are completely different platforms, with completely different engines, transmissions, gvwr specs, and the types of applications/uses vary a great deal. IMO, The Ford Transits are pretty much substitutes for the discontinued Ford 'work/utility vans', i.e., the E-150, E-250, and E-350; the E-350 also served as a platform for a few brands of class B vans, e.g., Sportsmobile. It's true that the Transit offers options for upfitting for specialized uses, but the largest Ford Transit has a gvwr of 10360 pounds, which (IMO) makes it marginal at best as an RV platform unless great care is taken to design, engineer and build a unit that, loaded with options, fluids, passengers, equipment, and supplies, and ready for the road is still within the gvwr limits. YMMV, but, if I were interested in an RV built on the Transit, I'd want to get a four-corner weight on it as it sits on the lot, at the least with full fuel, propane, and with a half-tank of water. See the specs of all the Transit models here:2019 Ford® Transit Cargo Van | Model Highlights | Ford.com
Re: Transit vs E450 Reply #5 – February 15, 2019, 07:08:36 pm Quote from: hutch42 - February 15, 2019, 01:36:04 pmAssuming the Transit was a HD 350 Diesel. Curious to know why they preferred one over the other as it could be an Apples to Oranges comparison depending on use and needs.Two ambulances equipped with identical equipment, crew, logo, bells, whistles and lights. Both brand new, both running, each with slight, low level crackle from their radios. Four dudes, basically interchangeable - you know how EMTs & firemen all sort of have the same look & build?The only difference - by which only someone with knowledge about cars & insight into the RV industry - were the two chassis. It's why when I politely asked to ask them a question, they were thinking it had to do with something within their specialized field.Nope, caught 'em off guard when I unexpectedly asked about their vehicles. And like most people who have some knowledge and are eager to share, all four jumped in immediately extolling the virtues of the E450 and dismissing the Transit.Now, in order to justify or excuse away their disdain for the Transit, one would have to assume they were equipped differently, or that the Transit hadn't been built to spec without consideration of the heavier requirements. One possible explanation of the former would be the Transit was for lighter duty requirements. The latter would suggest management was not doing its job.Either explanation doesn't make sense for two reasons: (1) I would expect that one of the crew would have at least mentioned the Transit was for different types of calls; (2) running two differently equipped ambulances for normal street duty would be a logistical nightmare from a deployment perspective.This isn't to say there aren't special use vehicles. Cop cars, fire engines (std vs ladder), etc are configured differently for different purposes. But in this case, these were two normal, everyday ambulances used for a suburban environment. (After all, they were both on call sitting side by side in anticipation of similar types of calls coming from the same event.) The only difference was the platform, by which the guys familiar with driving both clearly preferred the one vs the other. 1 Likes
Re: Transit vs E450 Reply #6 – February 15, 2019, 07:41:01 pm I neglected to add that IMO, I think the entire fixed platform RV is a mature, late stage solution that is being obsoleted by newer vehicle technology. So I really don't have any dog in the hunt with respect to Transit vs E450 or other HD van platforms.Rather, I think the market is going to move increasingly towards (back to?) fixed, static trailers towed with the newest generation of powerful, safe & comfortable tow vehicles. That is, the new generation of HD trucks being introduced by Ford, Chevy/GMC & Dodge.My take on class C is that is was a good solution at the time it was originally developed. The underlying chassis was subject to incremental improvements, but nothing like the moon shot tech that is now being rolled out. So, in that situation, you could attach a permanent turtle shell back to a vehicle that wouldn't necessarily be obsolete in 5-10 years.By way of example of how things change, I was at the Winternationals last week, and notwithstanding the weather, attendance levels are clearly down on a generational basis from when I was a teenager. Same can be said about NASCAR, MLB and some other formerly dominant entertainment venues.The point being is culture, habits, practices change over time. What was hot at one point becomes an afterthought later. Whether it's just fashion or something as critical as a crucial tech change makes for interesting speculation. Perhaps a good example would be how air travel absolutely exploded with the introduction of the jet engine in the 50s, and then de-reg in the 70s.My take looking at these new trucks, and knowing the coach (and appliances) is essentially unchanged, is that the market it going to move back in this direction. You can already see it with all the 5th wheels on the road and parked in campgrounds, but TTs are in the mix as well. One idea I toy with is to take my 22' apart and re-build it on a trailer. That would serve as a great mock-up model to produce mid/small TTs.Swap the wood frame for synthetics and/or alum, keep the great floor plan, maintain quality standards, windows and accessories, and it could make for an interesting solution.
Re: Transit vs E450 Reply #7 – February 15, 2019, 08:06:34 pm Joan---I should have expounded a little more on my question on the comparison. I was curious as to the details the two crews had. Like more payload, handling, creature comforts that sort of thing. I have actually camped in several class C Transit models. You are right there is a big difference between the Transit Class C and E450 Class C. The "big three" have produced over 1000 of the Transit class C's in the last three years. Recently the three boutique RV makers (besides Lazy Daze) have started to market C's on the Transit chassis. Coach House, Phoenix Cruiser, and LTV. Their target market has been mostly folks who are downsizing, and the younger generation thats looking for "small", quick and nimble, with no towing. As you say there are downsides to these more light weight units. The Winnebago Fuse is probably the most popular (forgetting the obvious quality issues in some areas) and pretty much the original maker on the Transit. I do have some info and specs on that unit.Transit model HD 350 3.2 L I-5 diesel Length 24'-0'' Width 90" Height 10'-2"WB 156" WB Ratio 54% Turning Raius 27' GVWR 10,360GCWR 13,500 Wet Weight 8750* OCC B-4 options 1600 OCC with average options 1250Max Hitch Load 350 Max Tow Load 3200 MPG 15-18* includes 25 Gal full fuel tank, oil, coolant, propane.Theres some definite weight restrictions with the Transit compared to the E450. I guess handling and MPG are Transits pluses.
Re: Transit vs E450 Reply #8 – February 15, 2019, 08:51:29 pm "Anybody here have any actual experience with Pleasure Way?"If you want to know as much as possible about Roadtrek and Pleasure-Way, I would suggest that you join as many Facebook groups for each that you can find, and then just read, read, read. The path will be more than clear.I read, read, read, and then read some more - everything I could find about the two brands. Both were pretty good, up to some point on the calendar - probably around 2008 or so. Then things changed.From what I could tell, Pleasure-Way continued to be quality oriented, and Roadtrek - well let's just say there was a big difference. Today's Roadtreks are all tied up with the massive problem with some improprieties within the company, AND they are being taken over by Thor. Ironically, Thor has declined to take over the North American branch of Hymer (Roadtrek) because of the scandal.Although acute illness has precluded hands-on experience with Pleasure-Way for the moment, I hope to be able to give a better report on this brand very soon. So far, she has proven to be an excellent place to take a nap. ;-> Virtual hugs, Judie <-- Sierra Vista, Arizona Adventures of Dorrie Anne | Photographing the West Today: Krakow Nights ******************************** 3 Likes
Re: Transit vs E450 Reply #9 – February 15, 2019, 09:29:23 pm Quote from: HiLola - February 15, 2019, 04:58:26 pmAnd then there’s this:Pleasure-Way Tofino - Pleasure-Way IndustriesI’ve heard various people make negative comments about Road Trek. Anybody here have any actual experience with Pleasure Way?I own 2009 Pleasure way traverse, Ford E150. It is my "discreet" camper van. I only used it couple times, and it's sort like a vanagon camper except it has Ford engine. Dont have to deal with vw vanagon old under powered engine. As far as Roadtrek, I heard they will be discontinuing. 1 Likes
Re: Transit vs E450 Reply #10 – February 15, 2019, 09:56:58 pm Judie---Pleasureway a great Class B, top of the line now. Camped in one in the 80's?? but really cant remember anything about. My one concern (as well as several other very popular rv makers) is to watch out for any units with a Lithium Battery system. Its the way of the future......BUT they are a totally different power system then Lead Acid or AGM batteries. They have come a long way in the past few years. However their charging parameters and operations are totally different then old style batteries, The jury is still out on how well they will perform for the mass market. Read up on them in all the forums. The reason several of the larger RV makers are holding back on using ( I love this part its so Lazy Daze) Their unsure, there are no national distributors and service centers. The current makers are using off the shelf, in some cases no name batteries, configured into a coach in several hodge podge methods. Winnebago is the only maker that is using a Lithium system on their Travato that has national backing because its the one used in all the auto companies like the Chev Cruise/Volt and others. This is a totally different system then the off the shelf models.
Re: Transit vs E450 Reply #11 – February 15, 2019, 10:30:29 pm Unless I missed it, a closer look at the PW Tofino revealed it has no bathroom. At $69K, that would be a deal breaker for me.
Re: Transit vs E450 Reply #12 – February 16, 2019, 07:37:05 am Quote from: HiLola - February 15, 2019, 10:30:29 pmUnless I missed it, a closer look at the PW Tofino revealed it has no bathroom. At $69K, that would be a deal breaker for me.We know a couple with a 2007 LD that have never used their bathroom.We have good friends who just ordered their second custom Class B, with no bathroom. He did consent to get a cassette toilet for his wife.
Re: Transit vs E450 Reply #14 – February 18, 2019, 10:52:54 am We like our Lazy Daze, but as more new models and engines come out, the more I like my 2002 F350 4x4 with the 7.3 DIESEL and a John Wood transmission. That 7.3 diesel has been bullet-proof and trouble free. If Cyndy ever stops loving the Lazy Daze, I'll put another camper in the back, watch my loaded mpg pop back up to 12 (18-20mpg unloaded on the open road) and enjoy the torque while pulling through the mountains. When we come home, the camper slides off and goes to sleep in the barn, and the truck goes back to hauling bricks, sand, plywood and pulling a 10,000lb. boat and trailer. 1 Likes
Re: Transit vs E450 Reply #15 – February 18, 2019, 11:05:20 am The old 7.3 was the last good diesel made. I had a 1994 idi that I bought new and just recently sold. Truck was falling apart but the motor still ran strong and used no oil. 2 Likes
Re: Transit vs E450 Reply #16 – February 18, 2019, 10:43:59 pm Quote from: HiLola - February 15, 2019, 04:58:26 pmAnd then there’s this:Pleasure-Way Tofino - Pleasure-Way IndustriesI’ve heard various people make negative comments about Road Trek. Anybody here have any actual experience with Pleasure Way?my sister and her husband are on their second Pleasure Way. They purchased the first one used at a good price but had some issues with the layout. They sold it after two years as my brother in law retired and got a new Plateau TS, took several trips near home then set out on a four month trip from Fl to Virginia by way of Washington. That would be Washington State, not DC. In both RV's I have been very impressed with the fit and finish of the cabinets and on board systems. PW is a lot like LD in that it is family owned and the owners are very friendly. Their are large get to gathers through out the country and in Canada (they are after made in Canada). On the new RV they use solar tied to lithium batteries with whole house inverters. You can run the microwave and AC off the batteries. There is a internal switch that will turn off the AC if the battery charge reaches a certain level. The wiring is completely integrated with the controllers in the front and rear. For example you can operate all the lights, or just some of them, from either of the two controlling stations or at the lamp them selves. At the house door there is a master off switch. On hers their is a but net for the sliding side door and a bug net for the back doors so they can have those doors open. The down side, there is not a lot of room and I coming from a LD midbath I would worry about weight even though the Sprinter up its payload this year. I would not consider the smaller sprinter or the dodge (FIAT) based class B because of OCCC. You want the one with six tyres should you go down that road.John 3 Likes
Re: Transit vs E450 Reply #17 – February 19, 2019, 09:04:46 pm And the new volta system used in the new coachman Galleria and WBGO Travato completely eliminates the Onan generators.The engine uses two alternators and can be programed to start when the Lithium batteries get low.Amazing
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