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Wave Catalytic Heater and Mr. Heater Discussions
I'm going in about a week onto my first longer trip in my LD. I'll be probably three weeks on the road. In the meantime I have accomplished the first little improvement projects - new converter, new radio, new shower faucet, some new lights. Even though these things are not too big I have to say that I'm happy and a little proud that I started to improve the LD to my likings. Two projects are left to do - the backup camera (I have now all the parts and will do this over the weekend), and additional heating ("Winter Is Coming" - not only in Westeros).

My idea about additional heating is to buy a small Buddy heater, get some 1 lb. propane bottles, an adapter to refill the bottles, take my 20 lbs. propane tank with me, and refill the bottles as needed. I know that some people say that a catalytic heater is better and that is probably true, but what I like about the "cordless" Buddy heater is the possibility to put it wherever I need it in the moment. For testing this out it is also a comparatively small amount of money to invest (less than $100 since I have already the propane tank). How does that sound?
2001 26.5 Mid-Bath
Re: Additional heater question
Reply #1 –
Quote
accomplished the first little improvement projects
The longest journey begins with a single step.
The Buddy heater has gotten some less than stellar reviews here.  It works if you consider it a 'proof of concept' project.  If you find it isn't needed, you have avoided replumbing the gas for a catalytic heater you wouldn't use.
If the concept works but is a PITA,  you can replumb, confident that it will be used.
Joel
Joel & Terry Wiley
dog Zeke
2013  31 IB   Orwan   / 2011 CRV Tow'd LWEROVE
Re: Additional heater question
Reply #2 –
Here is our experience. We have the 30' IB.

First, we tried the Wave 3 and found it woefully inadequate at warming the rig or anything much more than the ankles of the person sitting next to it.

Next, we tried a 10,000 BTU catalytic heater which did a fantastic job. It had two heat settings and would warm us up quickly and keep it comfortable. The problem with it was when we got up to high elevation you had to open so many windows that it defeated the purpose.

Most recently, we bought a Wave 8 which doesn't work nearly as well as the Kozy World but elevation hasn't been a problem.

We know several people who use Mr. Heater that you referred to and love them. They have worked better than our Kozy World at elevation and do a better job heating the rig than the Wave heaters. Some people use the propane canisters and others have connected small tanks that they keep in the rig. And, yes, I know that is something you shouldn't do.

We've actually considered buying the 18,000 BTU Mr. Heater not because we need that much but because it has a low-pressure connection point which would eliminate having to plumb another connection to our propane tank.

Jim
Re: Additional heater question
Reply #3 –
Quote from: Jim & Gayle  - 
Here is our experience. We have the 30' IB.

First, we tried the Wave 3 and found it woefully inadequate at warming the rig or anything much more than the ankles of the person sitting next to it.

Next, we tried a 10,000 BTU catalytic heater which did a fantastic job. It had two heat settings and would warm us up quickly and keep it comfortable. The problem with it was when we got up to high elevation you had to open so many windows that it defeated the purpose.

Most recently, we bought a Wave 8 which doesn't work nearly as well as the Kozy World but elevation hasn't been a problem.

We know several people who use Mr. Heater that you referred to and love them. They have worked better than our Kozy World at elevation and do a better job heating the rig than the Wave heaters. Some people use the propane canisters and others have connected small tanks that they keep in the rig. And, yes, I know that is something you shouldn't do.

We've actually considered buying the 18,000 BTU Mr. Heater not because we need that much but because it has a low-pressure connection point which would eliminate having to plumb another connection to our propane tank.

Jim
If you don't let the LD get too cold at night (and you could run the Wave 8 at night with ventilation), shouldn't it work for you? I'm just curious. I have found the Wave 6 works pretty well if the LD is not too cold at starting time. As regards the Kozy, at altitude, does it just not put out as much heat or does it shut down completely?

Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Re: Additional heater question
Reply #4 –
Just a note of caution about using the Wave at night while sleeping. Our old Wave 3 ( about 7 years or so) started refusing to light, so we replaced it with a new one about a year ago. We’ve only used it a few times in our TK, but each time we did we noticed our digital CO monitor starting to rise from “0” to the alarm point. We had more than the recommended ventilation open, and the unit had always been under a dust cover when not being used. I’m planning to contact the manufacturer about it, but thought I would pass on this warning. We all want to wake up! — Jon
(Former) ‘06 TK “Albatross.” And (former) Vespa 250.   Alas, no more; both are gone.😕 Great memories remain! 😄
Re: Additional heater question
Reply #5 –
Thanks, Jon; that is not good at all! I always have a window and vent open slightly, and my Wave 3 has never set off the CO alarm, but I will sure be aware of the possibility the next time the heater is used.

Maybe you just drew a defective Wave, but please post the manufacturer's response when you contact them.
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Additional heater question
Reply #6 –
I ordered the Buddy heater and the adapter and got already the 1 lb. bottles. I'm wondering whether I should - just as a precaution - get a new CO detector. I have read that these devices start to chirp in a certain way that is different from the low battery sound when they come to the end of their useful life. Did anybody here had that happen?
2001 26.5 Mid-Bath
Re: Additional heater question
Reply #7 –
Quote from: Chris Horst  - 
If you don't let the LD get too cold at night (and you could run the Wave 8 at night with ventilation), shouldn't it work for you? I'm just curious. I have found the Wave 6 works pretty well if the LD is not too cold at starting time. As regards the Kozy, at altitude, does it just not put out as much heat or does it shut down completely?

Chris

Chris, we have never been comfortable with the idea of leaving it on at night. The Kozy World states that it might not operate above 4500 feet. However, I operated at much higher altitude. However, our friends Mr. Heater worked better at the same altitude.

Jim
Re: Additional heater question
Reply #8 –
Quote from: Jon & Loni  - 
Just a note of caution about using the Wave at night while sleeping. Our old Wave 3 ( about 7 years or so) started refusing to light, so we replaced it with a new one about a year ago. We’ve only used it a few times in our TK, but each time we did we noticed our digital CO monitor starting to rise from “0” to the alarm point. We had more than the recommended ventilation open, and the unit had always been under a dust cover when not being used. I’m planning to contact the manufacturer about it, but thought I would pass on this warning. We all want to wake up! — Jon

Our Wave 8 did the same thing when it was new. We have a monitor with a digital display and it did rise but did not rise to the point of alarm. However, it no longer does that. I wonder if there is something that had to burn off.

Jim
Re: Additional heater question
Reply #9 –
We used a Mr. Buddy for a few years.  Brought those little bottles of propane, opened windows, and wiped down the extra wetness around and on windows. 
One day as I was pulling out of Portland it hit me that the cost of those little tanks far far exceeded the cost of propane brought for the main propane tank.   When I did the numbers even with a 50 to 60% lost of heat up the chimney I was still ahead cost wise with the stock furnace.   And I didn't have to worry about interior wetness and CO2.  Yes the main furnace uses power from the house batteries but that is a small price to pay for  quick, safe, and even heating.
personal fine art photo stuff
TF Mack | Flickr
It's all good .......
2014 Twin King
Re: Additional heater question
Reply #10 –
I have used both over the years, and prefer the cat heater.  I am still using the same heater now in our 4th rig, so it must be at least 25 years old.  

Here is a link to the archive of how I set my heater up.  I have done it the same way in all the rigs, but all the rigs shared one common design regardless of length (two 32' Class As, a 25' and 27' Class Cs) -- they all were/are straight-thru floor plans ala LD Rear Bath model. That allowed me to place the cat heater at one end of the rig and point it straight down toward the other end.  It might be that a cat heater will not be as effective in other floor plans such as a mid-bath because those effectively are two sections of the coach instead of one large section like a rear bath.   Works great, and we are frequent hi-alt and snow campers.  One must remember that a cat heater is radiant.  It heats objects, not air.  It will always take a cat heater a while to get a cold rig up to comfy.  But once there, leave it set at low and let her run all evening and into late next morning.  I find it very effective.   If you are already taking a 20# with you, why not just use the cat?  Here is the link with pix.

Install of catalytic heater in new 2017 Rear Bath
2017 RB
Re: Wave Catalytic Heater and Mr. Heater Discussions
Reply #12 –
We had this morning around 37 °F here in Sedona and I turned on the furnace to see how that works. It does work, but it is not very evenly heating - and the fan is very loud. If necessary I will have to live with that but if possible I will try to avoid it. On my upcoming trip I will see how I like the Buddy heater (refilling the bottles myself).

I like the idea to use a catalytic heater with a separate propane tank. I will look into that in case I don't like the Buddy heater. Unfortunately there is in my Mid-Bath LD not such a great spot to place a catalytic heater out of the way. The smaller size of the small Buddy heater seems to be, at least for now, a point speaking for this heater ... but I will see.
2001 26.5 Mid-Bath
Re: Wave Catalytic Heater and Mr. Heater Discussions
Reply #13 –
I just saw by pure coincidence on Craigslist that someone is selling about 40 minutes away from me a Wave-6 heater with a flexible hose for $75, supposedly used only once. That seems to be very inexpensive. Should I jump onto this, just in case?
2001 26.5 Mid-Bath
Re: Wave Catalytic Heater and Mr. Heater Discussions
Reply #14 –
Quote from: Nick R.  - 
I just saw by pure coincidence on Craigslist that someone is selling about 40 minutes away from me a Wave-6 heater with a flexible hose for $75, supposedly used only once. That seems to be very inexpensive. Should I jump onto this, just in case?

For your Mid-Bath,  Wave 6 should be fine, there is enough room to sit it back away from you,
When installing catalytic heaters in the MB, the outlet is located below the stove and is connected with a 5' hose is used. This allows the heater to be used in the lounge, to warm the bath or the kitchen area. When not in use, the hose can be disconnected and the heater stored.

In our 23.5' FL, we have a permanently mounted Wave 3 on the rear wall, in the bath and a second cat heater, in the lounge, that only comes out in very cold weather. Running the two together, they keeps the interior comfortable down into single digits. We have never had a problem running them at 10,000'

Bath catalytic heater | Flickr
The bath heater has been used for over 15 years and a minimum of a thousand times, in both of our LDs, it still works fine.

Cat heater in lounge | Flickr
Hook up kit, need to add a gas-rated shut-off valve, for safety .
Portable heater hook up kit
Amazon.com: Camco Propane Quick Connect Kit - Valve & Full Flow Plug,...

Larry
As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Wave Catalytic Heater and Mr. Heater Discussions
Reply #15 –
Unfortunately, there is in my Mid-Bath LD not such a great spot to place a catalytic heater out of the way.

Au contraire, I have seen them mounted on the rear door under the dinette, so it can swing. On the wall under the stove is also popular. We have ours on long rubber line that runs from the propane tank and will reach to the carpet in the rear. Heat where we need it. We store the cat heater in the forward dinette bin and the hose hangs out of the way behind the passenger seat.

We consider the Wave 3 more than enough to keep it toasty while sleeping. If you don't, put on more clothes or add a blanket No problems with it at altitude and we have parked for weeks above 9,000 many times - in the Summer, where a low of 30/36 is expected.

More, of course, in The Companion
The Lazy Daze Companion: Heaters
Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy
Re: Additional heater question
Reply #16 –
Jim and Gayle..curious that your Kozy only had two settings...mine has up to ten degrees, and I have almost NEVER had to go higher than the "two" setting. My problem, is that even on the lowest setting, it often is too warm. Also, I've never had any problem with using it at altitude. What i do, is I crack two of the top vents about 1/4 inch., front  by cab, and the one in the hallway across from the bathroom ..I have a 30ft. IB] and I have my Fantastic endless breeze. sitting on the floor at the foot of my qn bed. tilted up.. it circulates the heat, [and the fresh air] very well.
Wondering why altitude made yours inadequate...not enough heat, it shut down due to low oxygen, what? I do love my Kozy..works VERY well, so much cheaper than the Wave series. Mine is directly connected behind the stove to a wall mount between the table and the stove wall.  Out of the way of Junah's meandering, leaves room to walk around in the galley.

In very cold conditions, I close off the bedroom until there is sufficient warmth in the front, then open up the back, again with the fan circulating from front to back.  I very rarely use the furnace anymore..no need!

At 08:03 AM 11/1/2018, you wrote:

Quote

Here is our experience. We have the 30' IB.
First, we tried the Wave 3 and found it woefully inadequate at warming the rig or anything much more than the ankles of the person sitting next to it.
Next, we tried a 10,000 BTU catalytic heater which did a fantastic job. It had two heat settings and would warm us up quickly and keep it comfortable.
The problem with it was when we got up to high elevation you had to open so many windows that it defeated the purpose.
Most recently, we bought a Wave 8 which doesn't work nearly as well as the Kozy World but elevation hasn't been a problem.
We know several people who use Mr. Heater that you referred to and love them >. They have worked better than our Kozy World at elevation and do a better job heating the rig than the Wave heaters. Some people use the propane canisters and others have connected small tanks that they keep in the rig.
And, yes, I know that is something you shouldn't do.
We've actually considered buying the 18,000 BTU Mr. Heater not because we need that much but because it has a low-pressure connection point which would eliminate having to plumb another connection to our propane tank.
Jim

2006 30' IB Anniversary Edition
Life's Little Adventures

You can reply to this email and have it posted as a topic reply.
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gini Free and Junah, canine xtrodinaire "CHERRYOTTE" our litte red home on wheels "Growing old is mandatory. Growing wise is optional."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gini Free and Junah, canine xtrodinaire
"CHERRYOTTE" our little red home on wheels
"Growing old is mandatory. Growing wise is optional."
Re: Additional heater question
Reply #17 –
Quote from: Jim & Gayle  - 
Our Wave 8 did the same thing when it was new. We have a monitor with a digital display and it did rise but did not rise to the point of alarm. However, it no longer does that. I wonder if there is something that had to burn off.

Jim

Good to know. Thanks, Jim.
(Former) ‘06 TK “Albatross.” And (former) Vespa 250.   Alas, no more; both are gone.😕 Great memories remain! 😄
Re: Wave Catalytic Heater and Mr. Heater Discussions
Reply #18 –
Quote from: Nick R.  - 
I just saw by pure coincidence on Craigslist that someone is selling about 40 minutes away from me a Wave-6 heater with a flexible hose for $75, supposedly used only once. That seems to be very inexpensive. Should I jump onto this, just in case?
I'd say go for it.  If it doesn't work out, there's always Craigslist.  ;)
Joel
Joel & Terry Wiley
dog Zeke
2013  31 IB   Orwan   / 2011 CRV Tow'd LWEROVE
Re: Wave Catalytic Heater and Mr. Heater Discussions
Reply #19 –
Just to clarify: Kozy World heaters are not catalytic. They do have oxygen depletion sensors, which is why they shut down at high altitudes. And at any altitude, they emit carbon monoxide, so you need plenty of ventilation and a working, up-to-date CO detector. Personally, I would never run one of these overnight. The same cautions apply to the Mr. Heater/Buddy models.

There's a reason these heaters are cheaper than catalytic (Wave) heaters. Cat heaters use a platinum catalyst to enable combustion at much lower temperatures than any "blue flame" or "ceramic brick" heater. Hence, they emit much less carbon monoxide. Even so, I wasn't comfortable running my Wave 3 overnight. I've seen too many "Couple Found Dead in RV" stories over the years to take any chances.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Wave Catalytic Heater and Mr. Heater Discussions
Reply #20 –
I have a Wave 3 which I use much more than my Wave 6 in my RB.  It is pretty wimpy but enough to keep warm at night, especially if sitting close to it.  But this depends where you are.  I do leave it on overnight but not when I leave the  RV for the day.  Sometimes use the furnace to warm up in the morning.  Wave heaters do better at maintaining temperature than raising it.   I broke out the Wave 6 at Grand Canyon a couple days ago.   7,000 foot elevation  requires more heat at night than west coastal destinations near sea level.

I think it is a good idea to replace CO alarms, smoke detectors, propane detectors maybe every 5 years.  If they have self tests that may be enough and should be used, but they are not super expensive.     I am pretty good about cracking two or three windows but one could forget. 
Jay Carlson
2003  LD RB
2005 Bigfoot 40MH35LX
rvingjaygwynne.wordpress.com
Re: Wave Catalytic Heater and Mr. Heater Discussions
Reply #21 –
When I got a Buddy heater I also bought an additional carbon monoxide monitor (Kidde KN-COPP-B-LPM) that has a display that is supposed to show the CO level.

Since the monitor showed never anything but "0" when I used the heater in my (ventilated) Lazy Daze I thought it is a good idea to test the monitor. I therefore put the heater in my house into a small bathroom, with windows and door closed, and let it run in the closed shower stall with the monitor about two feet away and three feet above the heater. The heater is now running since almost one hour but the monitor still shows nothing ("0").

Is this normal, or could it mean that the monitor is defective? Is carbon monoxide not always being produced when such a heater is running?
2001 26.5 Mid-Bath
Re: Wave Catalytic Heater and Mr. Heater Discussions
Reply #22 –
The buddy heater is a catalytic propane burner. If everything is clean, it should convert the propane to water vapor, carbon dioxide and heat.
I think the real concern with these heaters is how much available oxygen in the air that it is using. I have one also, use it all the time, but we never leave it running when we sleep.
2014 27 MB
Towd: Either the Jeep Wrangler or trailer containing the BMW R1200GS and 2 E-bicycles
Happy wife=Happy life
 
Re: Wave Catalytic Heater and Mr. Heater Discussions
Reply #23 –
The Buddy heaters are NOT catalytic. None of the Mr. Heater products are; the word doesn't appear anywhere on their website. That's why they are less expensive than catalytic heaters such as the Wave series. The Buddy heaters do have oxygen depletion sensors, but they emit carbon monoxide, so they should be used with plenty of ventilation and a good CO monitor nearby.

Catalytic heaters are less likely to emit CO, but the truth is that no unvented heater is completely safe. If you want a good vented heater, it's hard to beat the Dickinson P12000. It uses a coaxial vent pipe: exhaust gases go up the inner pipe while fresh air comes down the outer pipe, getting warmed along the way. The combustion chamber connects only to the in/out pipes, so there are no emissions into your rig.

Drawbacks: it's expensive compared to a catalytic heater, and you have to make a 3" hole in your roof for the stovepipe. Those two factors will probably discourage most owners from going this route. But I installed one in my Airstream, and I love it. It's highly efficient, uses little propane, and puts out a lot more heat than a Wave 3--4,000-5,000 BTU, augmented by a quiet fan that draws about half an amp. And I never have to open a window or vent when running it.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Wave Catalytic Heater and Mr. Heater Discussions
Reply #24 –
Quote from: Andy Baird  - 
The Buddy heaters are NOT catalytic. None of the Mr. Heater products are; the word doesn't appear anywhere on their website. That's why they are less expensive than catalytic heaters such as the Wave series. The Buddy heaters do have oxygen depletion sensors, but they emit carbon monoxide, so they should be used with plenty of ventilation and a good CO monitor nearby.

Catalytic heaters are less likely to emit CO, but the truth is that no unvented heater is completely safe. If you want a good vented heater, it's hard to beat the Dickinson P12000. It uses a coaxial vent pipe: exhaust gases go up the inner pipe while fresh air comes down the outer pipe, getting warmed along the way. The combustion chamber connects only to the in/out pipes, so there are no emissions into your rig.

Drawbacks: it's expensive compared to a catalytic heater, and you have to make a 3" hole in your roof for the stovepipe. Those two factors will probably discourage most owners from going this route. But I installed one in my Airstream, and I love it. It's highly efficient, uses little propane, and puts out a lot more heat than a Wave3--about 5,500 BTU, augmented by a quiet fan that draws about half an amp. And I never have to open a window or vent when running it.
How 'bout a photo of your install, Andy?

Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB