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Topic: Shore power charge van battery / kiwi leveler issue / failing van battery (Read 269 times) previous topic - next topic
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Shore power charge van battery / kiwi leveler issue / failing van battery
So we've had our new to us 2001 mb parked in our driveway for the past week or more. I had it plugged in so we could keep a small space heater running to keep things from freezing up. I also had a dual 12v fan plugged into the lower cig lighter up front to circulate the warm air. This morning we where prepping for a trip this weekend. The van started up just fine, but when I retracted the kiwi jacks the van stalled out. I  tried to fire it back up, but all I got was the starter click. I put a carbon pile tester on the battery and it dropped down to about 9 volts. A jumper pack got the rig started back up. We had no issues at all on our recent cross country trip, so I don't think the van battery itself has any issues. I know I read in the manual that both cig lighters up front are supposed to draw from the house batteries, but it also mentions the van radio is supposed to do that as well, but our radio needs the key on to play. So after we got the van re-started, we then noticed that the Kiwi control is now dead. No lights and the buttons don't do anything. Looking at the Kiwi manual, I don't see anything about fuses anywhere. So I'm throughly stumped.

Recap.

Started rig.
Started to raise Kiwi jacks.
Jacks raise all the way up, then van engine dies.
Rig won't restart, van battery drops to 8-9v during crank.
Booster pack able to get rig started.
Kiwi control panel no longer functions.

I've got a battery charger on it now.

Factors:
It's been below freezing here in NC for the past week, and this might be one of the first times the battery has ever been cold soaked.
Dual 12v fans plugged into cig lighter the whole time as well, but my assumption was both 12V ports on the dash where wired to the house batteries, maybe I was wrong and it was drawing on the van battery enough that the battery had only enough umph to start it that one time.

I'd love to hear some thoughts from the experts out there.

1. Does being connected to shore power also charge the van battery?
2. Are the 12V ports on the dash wired to the house battery or van battery?
3. Anyone have clues as to what might have happened to the Kiwi control panel?

Thanks in advance.
Sean
Shore power was connected the whole time.
2001 MB
Re: Shore power charge van battery / kiwi leveler issue / failing van battery
Reply #1 –
Hi Sean; The dash 12vdc. power points seem to be variable. My upper one is on the engine battery, lower one on the house battery. Most more recent vintage seem to be both powered by the engine battery. A friend of mine's 2001 MB, both of the sockets are powered by the engine battery. Nothing charges the chassis battery. Newer solar installations from the factory with the 3000i controller do feed some power to the engine battery. I think that is newer than 2014. I installed an auxiliary charger that takes power from my converter or solar to keep the chassis battery up.   Ultra TRIK-L-START Starting Battery Charger/Maintainer

    I don't know why your Kwikee jacks quit working, but maybe just remove power to reset the controller. The electric hydraulic pump uses more power than your alternator can provide, so the battery has to help out. They should never be operated without the engine running.

     The radio comes wired to run from the house battery, but if it goes off with the engine key, it has been rewired.      RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Shore power charge van battery / kiwi leveler issue / failing van battery
Reply #2 –
Sean,

On our ‘15 RB, the dash 12 volt outlets are powered from the truck chassis battery.

Solar charger 3000i will send power to the chassis battery but only after the coach batteries are topped off so the chassis battery will not get much of a charge from the solar panels especially during the winter.

 The LD generator will not charge the chassis battery. It only charges the coach batteries. I prefer to start the truck engine to bring the coach and chassis batteries up. The engine is much quieter and charges much more quickly than the generator.

Our dash radio runs off of the coach batteries and does not need the ignition turned on to operate.

I’ve killed my truck chassis battery a few times by running 12 volt appliances from the dash outlets. Now days I only use them while the engine is running.

I do have a lithium jumper battery, an actual battery charger and an extension cord in case I screw things up again.

Your truck chassis battery may no longer have the amperage needed to get your levelers up. Perhaps there is a way to reset the control panel for the levelers.

In the future, you may want to use the coach 12 volt outlets or the 120 outlets (if connected to shore power) for ancillary appliances.

Good luck.

Kent
2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"
Re: Shore power charge van battery / kiwi leveler issue / failing van battery
Reply #3 –
Neither shorepower nor generator will charge the chassis battery. Some solar controllers will, if appropriate wiring is added. best is to periodically hook up a separate battery charger when stored for long periods, and check battery electrolyte levels.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit
Re: Shore power charge van battery / kiwi leveler issue / failing van battery
Reply #4 –
Quote from: henness  - 
We had no issues at all on our recent cross country trip, so I don't think the van battery itself has any issues.

I've been fooled by this line of thinking before.

Do you know what year the coach (van) battery is?  Unless it is really new, my first step would be to get it tested.  Most auto places and warehouse clubs (sams/costco) will do it for free.

Rich
'03 MB in NC
2003 MB
Re: Shore power charge van battery / kiwi leveler issue / failing van battery
Reply #5 –
Only later models LDs have the 3000i solar controller that can be wired to charge the starting battery, not sure if LD runs the charge wire to the starting battery.

I would charge the starting battery and see how it works and also have the alternator tested to see if it is charging properly. If the starting battery died within a week of being driven, good chance it is on its way out.
When the leveler's are raised and reach the top of the stroke, unless the limits switches are accurately adjust to shut the pump off immediately, the pump will be put under maximum load and it will draw much more amperage. The draw could be higher than what a weak battery and a idling alternator can provide, leading to low voltage, below what the engine needs to operate its computer, ignition, fuel pump and fuel injectors. Modern engines use a lot of electrical power.
A  fresh or fully charged starting battery might cure the issues.

Levelers draw a huge amount of power and the battery cable connections need to be cleaned and tight.
If the levelers do not work after charging or replacing the battery, I would renew all the high current connections between the battery and the pump unit.
I hope the problem is a simple electrical problem and not a bad control board. Kwikee has been out of the leveler business for several years and parts are not easily available, if at all.
I have removed two LD Kwikee levelers systems that have failed, the spare parts were quickly snapped up by other LD owners with Kwikee levelers who wanted or needed spare parts.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Shore power charge van battery / kiwi leveler issue / failing van battery
Reply #6 –
Well luckily unplugging and then plugging back in cured the leveller issue. Next time we park the rig, I'll pull the coach battery to see what 12v plugs up front draw from it. Also probably replace that battery at the same time. It doesn't have the date marks punched out, so not exactly sure how old it is. It is physically too small, as the battery tie down can't reach it.

I'll also look at that trickle charger mentioned above.

Thanks everyone.
2001 MB
Re: Shore power charge van battery / kiwi leveler issue / failing van battery
Reply #7 –
Sean,

There are ways the engine battery can be charged from the coach (using shore or generator power), it depends on how the LD was originally wired and any changes owners made. Unless you had great previous owners who wrote everything down you need to do some investigating including: tracing wires from your power center converter and any solar equipment to see if any wires go to your engine cab area and then determining is the cab alternator is charging your coach batteries or if the power center converter or solar is charging your cab battery.

Jane

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
Jane & Scott
Currently have a 1989 TK  LD we did a lot of upgrades on.
Bigfoot 25RQ Twin on order with early summer 2024 ETA

Our smartphone autocorrects into very poor English.
 We disclaim the illusion of ignorance this creates as we have enough ignorance we rightly claim.
Re: Shore power charge van battery / kiwi leveler issue / failing van battery
Reply #8 –
Hi Sean,  The car batteries I've seen lately have an additional sticker that has the month and year the battery was manufactured. I've even seen one that had that number stamped in the lead connection post. My last 'Diehard' chassis battery from Sears had an inkjet printed label on it. For your 2001 E450 you need a size 65 battery. With the posts away from you, ground (negative) on the left and positive on the right.
   Your year of coach has a diode isolator to separate the house batteries from the chassis battery when the engine isn't running. With the engine running, the alternator charges both battery sets through the isolator. The two house batteries get most of the charge if they are lower voltage than the chassis battery. The engine alternators maximum output is 150 amps or so, but it also has to run engine functions; headlights, A/C clutch, engine computer, fuel injectors, etc.  RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB