Re: Hooray for rot repair!! Reply #25 – January 02, 2019, 06:56:11 pm Very true, that being said lazy daze is not rationing staples or screws or sealant. They absolutely use as much as they expect to need. I personally helped my friend rebuild a jayco trailer that was rotted out and the difference in framing was significant. Even the rotten wood on the Lazy Daze puts up a fight because of how thoroughly affixed everything is.It’s Glued, Screwed, and tatoooed together 4 Likes
Re: Hooray for rot repair!! Reply #26 – January 05, 2019, 11:06:34 am Quote from: RonB - December 30, 2018, 07:17:22 pmHi Cor2man; Your wallpaper can be matched with many available vinyl 'papers'. White would not be out of place. The outside corners, where the corner caps meet, are capped by the factory now with a 1" wide aluminum strap. That started somewhere around 2004. I covered my corner cap joints with strap I got at LD. I had to do the bending. I'm including a picture of mine. I had originally put those screws in to keep the caps tight. I should have done just the cover strip without the screws. The holes for the screws are so close to the edge that the corners eventually break out. RonBRon, I ll need to get the "strap" from LD factory. How much was it? ThanksDave
Re: Hooray for rot repair!! Reply #27 – January 05, 2019, 12:46:53 pm Quote from: Cor2man - January 02, 2019, 05:47:56 pmLooking forward, any end cap with cracking needs to be sealed, and the best way to seal is to remove the cap and repair the backside with 2 Part abs epoxy, then go ahead and remove/reseal the wood structure, and then reattach the end cap by whatever means you feel will last. If an end cap is still firmly attached, many times, the cap will be destroyed in the removal process, even when using an oscillating tool to cut the adhesive under the caps.It's always amazes me that some end caps fall off on their own and others seem to almost be welded to the coach.I repair such caps in place and seal around the edges, after digging out any old sealant and cleaning, with 5200 FC.When a firmly attached cap has a badly damaged spot, I will cut the section out and glue in a fresh piece of end cap, making the connection using plastic epoxy.Renewing the seals around the end caps and windows is a never ending project, when owning an older rig.Window fogging is seen in 2003+ models and is the result of time and temperature variations breaking down the seal between the inner and out pieces of glass. The fogging is dirt and moisture that have accumulated in between the two pieces of glass. There is no way to clean the glass in situ.The cure is to replace the entire window or have the glass disassembled, cleaned and resealed.Larry 2 Likes
Re: Hooray for rot repair!! Reply #28 – January 05, 2019, 12:53:43 pm Quote from: Cor2man - January 02, 2019, 06:56:11 pmIt’s Glued, Screwed, and tatoooed togetherA good description of LD's construction techniques, trying to disassemble anything LD has built can be very frustrating and destructive. I have never seen any other RV built in this time consuming way. The entire coach and interior becomes structural.One reason why so many owner have unknown rot is because a good deal of structure can be lost before it shows, where in a less built RV, it will fall apart.Larry 1 Likes
Re: Hooray for rot repair!! Reply #29 – January 05, 2019, 12:55:33 pm "Renewing the seals around the end caps and windows is a never ending project, when owning an older rig."----Oh, yes, it is indeed, and as soon as it warms and dries up a little, this tedious "seal redux" project is on the list (again) for my 2003. (Ladder, scrubbing, solvent-ing, blue tape, 5200 FC, popsicle stick smoothing, multi-layers of nitrile gloves, shop towels, aaarrrggghhh.... !)
Re: Hooray for rot repair!! Reply #30 – January 05, 2019, 01:02:21 pm Quote from: Joan - January 05, 2019, 12:55:33 pm"Renewing the seals around the end caps and windows is a never ending project, when owning an older rig."Oh, yes, it is indeed, and as soon as it warms and dries up a little, this tedious "seal redux" project is on the list (again) for my 2003. (Ladder, scrubbing, solvent-ing, blue tape, 5200 FC, popsicle stick smoothing, multi-layers of nitrile gloves, shop towels, aaarrrggghhh.... !) Tending to our LDs is what keeps us alive.....between trips. Larry
Re: Hooray for rot repair!! Reply #31 – January 05, 2019, 01:13:54 pm "Tending to our LDs is what keeps us alive.....between trips."----Trips are good! And a "maintenance elf" would also be real helpful in keeping the dream and me alive! 1 Likes
Re: Hooray for rot repair!! Reply #32 – January 05, 2019, 01:26:29 pm Hi Dave; The strap is what runs down the side of the motorhome, to cover the seam between the floor, and the side skirts. You need to order it without holes. Just a few dollars I think. I was at the factory buying lots of other items. It doesn't come pre-bent, well maybe it does. Ask LD to see if they will pre bend it. That would make it a lot easier. Heck, it might come with holes too. At a price I'm sure. I just got straight. You might want to get some to practice on. I remember making lots of trips between my vise, and the LD. I mark where I want the strip to go with painters tape. Try to keep the strip parallel to the paint patterns nearby. Then bend the curve until I got it to fit. I bent it over a smooth, rounded piece of wood, clamped in the vise. then mark the ends and saw it to fit. File off the ends to shape, then drill the holes. I start with a small diameter hole about a 3/32". Use a center punch first. I tape the piece in place, and use it to keep the drill from wandering as I drill a guide hole, just 5/8" deep. Then I increase the size of the hole to fit the screw. Stainless flat or oval head sheet metal screw either #6 or #8. I'm going to guess #8. https://www.boltdepot.com/Product-Details.aspx?product=2215&gclid=CjwKCAiAyMHhBRBIEiwAkGN6fGCTRqFBu4XJ_A5PaGK6jwxQw68Mt-8jiRfWm2sjnvscb95vHLu7IxoCWN0QAvD_BwE Making the countersink relief was touchy. I wrapped the piece in painters tape to protect the white finish a few times. I painted it with polar white spray, and then glued it in place with caulk. I use Amazon.com: Dap 18285 Dynaflex 230 Premium Indoor Outdoor Sealant with... because it can be wiped away with water. Good luck with your cosmetic repair. I find that the metal strip also holds the ends of the ABS corner moldings down and in place. RonB 1 Likes As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: Hooray for rot repair!! Reply #33 – January 05, 2019, 01:42:51 pm Bad news folks. Sadly, i was wrong. Looks like our water damage is also on the opposite side. Pretty worried about this because I have a shower in the way as far as access goes. Has anyone patched this up from the outside? 1 Likes
Re: Hooray for rot repair!! Reply #34 – January 05, 2019, 06:19:44 pm That escalated quickly.....So in short, the only way to properly fix this mess is to remove the rear paneling...the paneling does not come off easily.The bumper doesn’t come off easily.The indention for the tire carrier does not come off easily.I will say now that it’s off I have an overwhelming feeling of relief, but repairs are going to be difficult. I’d say the most expensive part of a project like this is buying enough sealant to put it back together to original spec, I have never in my life seen so much sealant applied to every square inch of anything. 1 Likes
Re: Hooray for rot repair!! Reply #35 – January 05, 2019, 07:51:48 pm Quote from: Cor2man - January 05, 2019, 06:19:44 pmThat escalated quickly..... I’d say the most expensive part of a project like this is buying enough sealant to put it back together to original spec, I have never in my life seen so much sealant applied to every square inch of anything.Wow!, you never know what is hidden out of sight. That is a huge amount of work just to get to the rotted section.Thanks for the photos, I have never disassemble the rear of an LD, and your RB has the same rear wall construction as our 2003 23.5' FL. Good to know that comes apart without too much destruction. Did the end caps come off easily, were they loose to begin with ?It's been said that every LD contain the contents of a 50 gallon barrel of polyurethane sealant. It isn't too much of an exaggeration. It's part of the reason why even rotted LDs can hold together without obvious indications.Larry 2 Likes
Re: Hooray for rot repair!! Reply #36 – January 05, 2019, 08:04:56 pm Wow, this shows the importance of good maintenance of seams, and a good pre-purchase inspection; but I'm wondering if even a good inspection would have uncovered the extent of the damage found? 2 Likes
Re: Hooray for rot repair!! Reply #37 – January 05, 2019, 08:06:51 pm Larry, the end caps were absolutely a pain to get off. They was no lifting at all they had just leaked at the seam. I’m not sure what the hardest part was, overall it look a large amount of persuasion to get the upper aluminum skin to slid out of position, it also look a lot of work to get the 2 halves of the lower fiberglass portion removed. They overlap in the middle. The bumper was glued with the Super tough LD adhesive all the way down the bottom of the coach, took about an hour with a multi tool to break it free. Overall with some patience it’s a doable job, by having it apart I’ll be able to properly replace the rot quicker and get a more thorough repair, replacing the panels is a simple task, just reseal the seals and press them together and fasten with staples/screws. Personally I have no formal background in any of this, so this is quite the learning experience. My only hope is no other windows/seams have leaked before, because id really like not do this again for a while! 4 Likes
Re: Hooray for rot repair!! Reply #38 – January 05, 2019, 08:07:58 pm An inspection would have found some slightly soft wood right behind the bumper, in reality everything else was completely solid.
Re: Hooray for rot repair!! Reply #39 – January 05, 2019, 08:50:29 pm Cor2man (name?), I applaud your diligence and persistence; the discoveries of the extent of the water damage must be really disheartening! Yes, it’s a learning experience, and one that few want to deal with, but good on ya for hanging in there! 👍 2 Likes
Re: Hooray for rot repair!! Reply #40 – January 05, 2019, 09:12:02 pm Name is Zane, we certainly wish the water hadn’t happened but owning and using an RV as a young person means staying within a budget that means dealing with issues. 2 Likes
Re: Hooray for rot repair!! Reply #41 – January 06, 2019, 12:56:05 am Zane--I want to echo Joan's "...good on ya for hanging in there!" Thx for the pix of this odyssey. RE: "Personally I have no formal background in any of this, so this is quite the learning experience."You remind me of a really great audiobook (https://www.amazon.com/Rise-How-House-Built.../1250095662) I listened to during one of my trips to Texas this fall, about a single mom who built a house with her kids. Though she had intermittent help from a few folks & hired a few things like the electrical, she talked about most of what they figured out came from youtube videos. When I see some of the things that folks accomplish on this site, I find myself encouraged to try some things I'd have never considered...even if they are only baby steps compared to what you are doing, Zane.Lynne 2 Likes As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: Hooray for rot repair!! Reply #42 – January 06, 2019, 09:38:38 am "...but owning and using an RV as a young person means staying within a budget that means dealing with issues."---- A necessity for most owners of all ages. Many on this board have repeated the counsel (multiple times!) that RVs and the associated lifestyle are not an inexpensive endeavor, and those who buy a rig, even one in reasonably good condition, and expect to blithely head off down the road usually hit the "reality wall" pretty quickly. Doing repair and maintenance work oneself can save a lot of cash, but for those who don't have the skill sets, tools, abilities, or desire to do so will need to search out competent service and repair shops and pay them to do the work needed to keep the RV from falling apart. Shop labor charges in the area where I live run about $150-$200 per hour, and parts costs are almost always "maximized"; doing whatever work on the rig that is within one's own skill set can be a cash-saver! (And fun and satisfying, particularly if the work involves getting a new tool! ) 4 Likes
Re: Hooray for rot repair!! Reply #43 – January 06, 2019, 04:34:20 pm Zane, just keep saying "$175/hour is what my time is worth in this". And when you are done, you will have full confidence in the quality of workmanship.And know the per gallon cost of sealant Great work and thanks for the photo documentation.Joel 2 Likes
Re: Hooray for rot repair!! Reply #44 – January 06, 2019, 08:57:44 pm Little more rot, the entire framework for the passenger side is compromised. 1 Likes
Re: Hooray for rot repair!! Reply #45 – January 06, 2019, 11:46:17 pm Quote from: Cor2man - January 06, 2019, 08:57:44 pmLittle more rot, the entire framework for the passenger side is compromised.Zane,Based on your post 7 month ago about your RV, I was under the impression tthat you did not have any doubts that this RV had any issues. Hindsight, did you suspect any sort of leakage or issues with this RV? Did you smell any mold? I'm sure if these issues were identified then, it could ve been a good leverage for a better deal. Wouldn't you agree? I myself bought a used 2003 LD RB model couple years back and I'm wondering if behind the end caps have the same issues as yours. Hopefully not.. lol. Thanks for sharing your work and your findings here. We appreciate it! -Dave
Re: Hooray for rot repair!! Reply #46 – January 07, 2019, 01:40:48 am Honestly I did not believe any issues were present to this extent. If my memory serves me right I made 3 separate visits to inspect the unit and knew there was a slightly soft spot on the exposed wood behind the bumper but because I didn’t know how these were framed out at the time I didn’t conclude damage was present. The walls all felt solid as a rock including the ladder supports despite being completely rotted. 4 Likes
Re: Hooray for rot repair!! Reply #47 – January 07, 2019, 01:46:08 am Made progress on Sunday, we got all the bad wood that we could cut out and replaced. Still using screws, construction adhesive, and staples to reattach every new piece. Hopefully we got everything pretty solid, felt that way Atleast.We reattached the aluminum body Panel. The rear profile looks pretty good and the end cap appears to fit good. 8 Likes
Re: Hooray for rot repair!! Reply #48 – January 07, 2019, 01:28:22 pm I did a (comparatively) small repair around the passenger side cab window 5 years ago. It's held pretty dry & tight since then, but your photos jog a few memories. For what's it's worth, here are a few personal observations & tips:1. LDs were never meant to be taken apart and repaired. It's a small business that focuses all its energy and attention on building a super solid, premium RV. While the mothership does provide information and advice on how to manage/prevent water intrusion, IMO it's implicitly understood that this relates to a 10 year, maybe 15 year ownership cycle. I know of no other industry - other than aerospace - that builds with the expectation of a longer service cycle and maintenance program. Since the RV industry overall operates under a very short 2 year buy/use/abandon cycle, 10-15 years is eternity. It's a credit to LD that these rigs actually last as long as they do.2. As Larry and some others have pointed out, LD uses a ton of staples & sealant to keep everything fastened & glued together. Ironically, this ends up in some ways to help provide the necessary infrastructure when wood rot destroys the frame's internal integrity. While you are currently fighting these elements, note that you can use the same tools & methods to your own advantage. When I had finished replacing certain struts and had put on new paneling, I filled the internal areas with a ton of expanding insulation. As long as it doesn't expand so far as to distort/warp the paneling, you essentially end up with a semi-solid block of insulation throughout the entire repair area that forms additional support.3. Lastly, IMO, the absolute key to any restoration/repair project are the finishing touches. That is, you need to do a great job on making sure the struts are even on the panel fastening side. It doesn't matter if you're a master woodworker fitting the various struts together under some intricate jig if the external surface is even 1/4" off. That bulge and warble is going to show on the paneling, and make the job look less than professional. What I did was to make sure all the supporting elements were in place to provide the necessary strength. But I spent a lot of time fitting the paneling and making sure it was flat/level along the eyesight line. That means getting out the Drexel and/or planer to get everything just right. Once the paneling is straight, you can back fill with insulation. Lastly, got to a fabric store to find the wall paper material (color/pattern/texture) that best matches your existing fascia. I got a really good match that most people don't notice unless I point it out to them. 1 Likes
Re: Hooray for rot repair!! Reply #49 – January 07, 2019, 01:43:11 pm I believe my framework is going to match up pretty darn good.The biggest issue I’m currently facing is the end cap cracks. I have fixed the cracks with 2 Park epoxy for plastic but on 1 end cap I have a significant crack. It is very difficult to work expoxy into the crack and if not completely filled/repaired water will freeze in the void during the winter causing further damage.
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