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Topic: Fresh Water Tank Sensor Error (Tank Monitor Sensor Board) (Read 838 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Fresh Water Tank Sensor Error
Reply #25 –
"Can't see into the black tank on a 30' model."
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Right; AFAIK, the TK is the only model with a straight drop into the black tank. 
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Fresh Water Tank Sensor Error
Reply #27 –
"The FL and FD also."
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Really!? Thanks, Steve!  ;)
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Fresh Water Tank Sensor Error
Reply #28 –
Quote from: Steve  - 
If such an animal became available, you would still have to route 12V and ground to each sensor panel and its bluetooth transmitter. Much more wiring than the single readout panel requires.

Remember "plastics" in The Graduate? Batteries my man, batteries. Secondly, why 12V?

Consider for a moment how long the good old CR2032 3VDC last. For one, sensors would only be active when receiving an initial signal ie when the rig is utilized. Secondly, one query per hour would be more than sufficient. At that rate, 1-2 year product lifespans would probably be the targeted norm.
Re: Fresh Water Tank Sensor Error
Reply #29 –
Quote from: Larry W  - 
I will take a simple, hard-wired device almost anytime over any Bluetooth device, installed in an RV.
I have friends who installed a Bluetooth controlled electrical system in their LDs  and watched them dealing with problems with the controls and readout, having to reboot and troubleshoot the system. 

Bluetooth, and it's ilk, would add more complexity to a basically simple system of measuring the level of the tanks.
Everything does not need to be wireless, hardwiring is usually cheaper, more dependable and a lot easier to troubleshoot.

The Pareto principle aka the 80/20 rule, articulates the principle that a minor percentage of causal factors produce a majority of resulting effects.

Applied to the product development, marketing and/or acceptance cycle, we can observe that only a small number of products introduced each year actually survive to the point of general utilization. However, over time, the relatively small percent continue to gain acceptance & adoption, to the point of sometimes reaching overwhelming market dominance.

IMO, remote sensors and other wireless control devices are one such application. Right about now, we're at the early market adoption -> product refinement/improvement cycle. If it results in what I expect, within 5 years the idea of hard wired devices will be viewed comparatively with home land lines. That is, around a 99:1 adoption split vis-a-vis smart phones.
Re: Fresh Water Tank Sensor Error
Reply #30 –
Thanks for all the input everyone. To add to Andy’s link on his experience with the See Level system, I located a YouTube on the installation on a Class A rig. https://youtu.be/IDffmhQ5RkM

One thing missing on the See Level system that I noticed is the generator “hour” monitor. I’m hoping that a monitor for this can be added or the original one can be left intact somehow.

The OEM Tank Monitor in our LD has been as reliable as it can be since we took delivery in 2015. I have been able to get an empty readout on the “Black Tank” consistently by using a garden hose “Spray Attatchment” rather than the basic Camco Tank Wand.

The hose attatchment is capable of making a very wide spray and does a fine job of cleaning the walls of the black tank. Of course our RB does have a direct view into the tank and this makes the use of the hose attatchment possible whereas it would not be on the MB.

In regards to the Fresh Water Tank, I added about a quart of white vinager to the full tank of water. Hopefully this will assist in removing any calcium deposits, if any exist, on the tank sensors.

Thanks again.

Kent

2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"
Re: Fresh Water Tank Sensor Error
Reply #32 –
Quote from: Jim & Gayle  - 
Can't see into the black tank on a 30' model.

Jim
I'm guessing your experience is the same as mine, Jim, in that after a few years you know by the sound of the flush how full the tank is, especially if it's more than ¾ths full.

Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Re: Fresh Water Tank Sensor Error
Reply #34 –
Kent, the SeeLevel system does not replace the OEM indications.  They, including your generator hours, remain in place.  The SeeLevel uses its own monitor which you install at some location convenient for you.

Ken F in NM
'08 MB
Re: Fresh Water Tank Sensor Error
Reply #35 –
So then there really is no need to remove the existing system. Having both systems monitoring the tanks (if operable) seems to be a practical redundancy. While not necessarily, it couldn’t hurt.

The RB closet is huge and there is 12volt power just on other side of the wall. Wouldn’t be a horrible option to locate the SeeLevel monitor inside the closet. Out of sight but easily accessed.

Kent

2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"
Re: Fresh Water Tank Sensor Error
Reply #36 –
"Wouldn't be a horrible option to locate the SeeLevel monitor inside the closet."

I concurred with my technician, Mike Sylvester, that it would be good to mount the SeeLevel Monitor near the OEM monitor on the range hood. On my 30' there is a narrow space just to the left of the existing range hood, next to the microwave, and he mounted the new monitor in that space. I can see either system with a roll of the eye. And yes, they are both operational but independent of one another.   ;)
Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Cedar
2004 30'IB (Island Bed)
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery
Live for the day!
Re: Fresh Water Tank Sensor Error
Reply #37 –
Quote from: Kent Heckethorn  - 
So then there really is no need to remove the existing system. Having both systems monitoring the tanks (if operable) seems to be a practical redundancy. While not necessarily, it couldn’t hurt.

The SeeLevel has its own wiring and is only connected to the coach's electrical to obtain 12-volt power and one connection to the propane tank's level sensor, usually accessed in the tanks' readout panel .The functioning of the Factory LED sensors remains the same.
If you make the mistake of telling your wife there is enough water to wash her hair...and there isn't, you may soon be installing a SeeLevel too.

Larry

Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Fresh Water Tank Sensor Error
Reply #38 –
“If you make the mistake of telling your wife there is enough water to wash her hair...and there isn't, you may soon be installing a SeeLevel too”.

As concerned spouses, perhaps a Solar Shower and an emergency supply of water could keep us out of “hot” water in such perilous times. 😖

Kent
2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"
Re: Fresh Water Tank Sensor Error
Reply #39 –
So anyway...my monitor panel has taken another turn. After adding about a quart of white vinegar to the fresh water tank, I have anxiously been watching the monitor for any subtle changes.

Having used the water from the full fresh water tank for the “facilities” I was waiting for the Monitor lights for the black tank to show a rise in level. Nothing changed. Being a RB, I was able to look directly into the black tank. To my surprise the water level had risen to just below the flush valve. I was shocked.

Going to the monitor panel I depressed “Readout Display” button and the LED’s quickly registered a full black tank and then they just as quickly lowered to show 1/3 full.

This rise & fall of the black tank LED’s was the same behavior I was/am experiencing with the fresh water tank.

This, to me, indicated that the readout error was not a  “Tank Sensor” but rather a monitor error. What’s one to do at this point?

I just got off the phone with the Vince and Todd and the consensus is a problem with the LED circuit board. A DIY project costing around $70. An entire Monitor Panel is about $150. Either way I go, I’ll be glad to have this addressed.

I know the See Level system is a practical solution to the tank monitor issue, but I just can’t allow any part of my beloved LD to fail without getting it back to like new condition. After I’m past this hick-up, I’ll consider the SeeLevel installation.

Always “Tank Full” for all your help,

Kent

2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"
Re: Fresh Water Tank Sensor Error
Reply #40 –
Hi Kent. Find where the +12 dc enters that read-out board. Likely it has a high resistance supply line. A corroded connection (that includes the possibility of the ground wire), pinched wire or bad connection coming from somewhere else (+12) are limiting the ability of the board to supply power to the LED's in the display. That is my bet. RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Fresh Water Tank Sensor Error
Reply #41 –
Ron,

Thanks for this advice. Our RB is a 2015 and purchased new at the Mothership. I have had the panel off a few times and took a close look at all the connections.
Nothing appeared to be corroded and or worn.

Except for the wire to the propane LED’s that I repaired (after I broke it loose from its pin when reinstalling the panel 🤪) everything looks solid.

Todd will e-mail me (yes, e-mail) when parts are in stock. Should be pretty straight forward for the DIY repair. Hope to have it all sorted out before Morro Bay.

Thanks again,

Kent

PS: Now that I look more closely at the board there does appear to be a discoloration on one of the circuit board solder points (not my handy work). Curious to see what Todd sends me.
2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"
Re: Fresh Water Tank Sensor Error
Reply #42 –
The bottom pins on the gray and black tanks go to ground. The tank ground wires are usually terminated with a crimped-on fitting and screwed to the frame. I have seen LDs with with both the gray and black tank's ground wires either connected together or having a common grounding point. 
If your rig is wired this way, an iffy ground could cause a common fluctuating reading issue in both tanks.
You might want to check and renew the ground wire(s) connection at the frame end.

Larry

Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Fresh Water Tank Sensor Error
Reply #43 –
Cheap digital meters from free to $$$ should be usable by all, and can tell you a lot about the activities of those invisible electrons. Voltage levels at 12V dc in low power circuits is really easy stuff.   RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Fresh Water Tank Sensor Error
Reply #44 –
Fresh Water Tank Sensor Update

Today I drove to Santa Ana based JRV Products to pick up a replacement for my Tank Monitor Circuit Board.

I had a engaging conversation with Mary, the owner, about many things RV related. JRV makes electronic components for many RV and Boat manufactures across the country.

Prior to the boards installation, I took the precaution to shut down all electrical power (turning the battery disconnect switch off, unplugging shore power and throwing all the breakers as well as pulling the solar panel fuse). I then proceeded to make the swap. About five minutes later, the job was completed. Easy as that.

Although I purchased the tank harness, at this time I did not install it. If it appears that it will achieve more accurate readings, I’ll install it at another time.

The end result is that I now have accurate and steady readings across all LEDs. The generator hours actually remained lit throughout the procedure. Must be some sort of back up battery built into the system. Very cool. The genny’s clock is not part of the board I replaced so that makes sense I suppose.

Interestingly, although I filled the propane tank yesterday and requested the attendant to allow the propane tank to bleed off a bit longer to insure complete (80%) tank capacity, the monitor reads 75% and does not reach the “Full” LED. This fuel level is also reflected in the AP Sonar propane detector I have recently installed. The AP Propane Sensor is reading 70%. The actual tank gauge reads Full. Very interesting. 🤯 Perhaps things will change once the rig has had a chance to stir the tank a bit.

All in all everything looks good to go. I’ll know more when we hit the road for Zion next week.

Here are some pics of today’s work.

Kent
2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"