Black Tank Valve Lubrication December 14, 2018, 11:34:34 pm Ok, so we’ve had our ‘15 RB for just a bit more than three years now. We’ve been to many places, met several LDO friends and learned and shared some valuable lessons and insights in regards to LD preventative maintenance and upgrades. Last week Tiger dropped by the house after graciously giving me several new Storage Compartment (Bay) keys. I greatly appreciated his generosity and figured a little hands on instruction on Generator Maintenance could be a nice way to repay the favor.Tiger dropped by the house and while servicing the Generator, I mentioned that I would be removing my Black & Gray tank valve assemblies upon returning from Indian Cove due to the Black Tank Valve getting a little “crunchy” while opening and closing it. The Flush King was also showing similar signs so it too could use some lubrication.Tonight I located a YouTube video that may very well eliminate the need of the valve dissasembly. Perhaps this has already been mentioned on LDO, sometimes it pays if I just write things down.https://youtu.be/2GDErKY05-8I’ll be giving this a go as soon as I freshen up the tanks at home. Seems like a reasonable step and far easier than the R&R I had anticipated.I do, however, have a new set of valves I purchased from the Mothership a while back just in case I run “up against” a road hazard or some such unforeseen circumstance. Between the insight shared on LDO and my Cub Scout years, I manage to be well prepared for many eventualities.This should prove interesting and hopefully free up some valuable retirement downtime. Perhaps a new movie at the local Multiplex.Kent 1 Likes
Re: Black Tank Valve Lubrication Reply #1 – December 15, 2018, 09:58:46 am Hmmm interesting vid -- thanks.In the past I have, after doing a black/gray dump, spray the value with WD-10. I keep gloves, some sort of sanitizer, and a can of WD in the dump compartment.
Re: Black Tank Valve Lubrication Reply #2 – December 15, 2018, 11:03:00 am That is a tip I got from Chris Horst almost 10 years ago. The only difference is that I used silicone spray. It worked well until the valve started leaking. I wonder if the WD 40 would be better than silicone? I've seen some comments that WD can hurt rubber although nothing conclusive.Jim
Re: Black Tank Valve Lubrication Reply #3 – December 15, 2018, 11:36:52 am Silly me, for 11 years I have been coating the metal slides with a generous slathering of Vaseline once or twice a year. Original valves so the Vaseline must be OK with the rubber seals.
Re: Black Tank Valve Lubrication Reply #4 – December 15, 2018, 12:58:45 pm Quote from: Kent Heckethorn - December 14, 2018, 11:34:34 pmTonight I located a YouTube video that may very well eliminate the need of the valve dissasembly. Perhaps this has already been mentioned on LDO, sometimes it pays if I just write things down.I’ll be giving this a go as soon as I freshen up the tanks at home. For a jammed up valve, this can't hurt, and is worth a try, it is a good PM item.I spray the valve's handles with silicone for and this usually works unless the valve's seals get plugged with debris.Once you remove the old valves, disassemble the old valves and clean the seals, carry as spares, valves do go bad and/or break.I have helped replace more than one, during campouts. Pure joy.Larry
Re: Black Tank Valve Lubrication Reply #5 – December 15, 2018, 04:03:47 pm I might give this a try sometime. Years ago I did what someone else did. Drilled a hole and instead of a screw used a tap and installed a zert fitting so I could put some grease in it. Advantage? No screw to remove. Disadvantage? I would have to carry a grease gun with me which I didn't want to do. Dave 04 Excel TD
Re: Black Tank Valve Lubrication Reply #6 – December 15, 2018, 05:37:13 pm It is my understanding that WD-40 is great for displacing water (WD = water displacement) but not so great as a long duration lubricant. My dump valve maintenance is, around once a year, I dump and flush the tanks, then with a bucket under the valve, I disassemble it, clean the slides, the blade and the O-rings, then I lube the O-rings, both sides of the blades, the slide grooves and the shaft with a thin film of vaseline. Every time I have done so, the inner O-ring has had some material present that reduces its flexibility, and eventually would allow a leak if left. The cleaning restores it. No amount of lubrication by itself would get rid of some of those salt-like deposits. The cleaning involves a bucket of very hot water, a bit of dish detergent, a soak until the water drops to just warm, then scrubbing of parts with a stiff fiber brush (NOT metallic) until the parts look and feel clean. A spray rinse, dry, then apply the vaseline and re-assemble. It takes me about 45 minutes per valve. The result is a set of valves that, after 10 years, are working well, except for ones that I damaged. I tried a powdered tank cleaner in my black tank. The material never fully dissolved, so I just dumped it in. It settled down, against the valve, and the material seemed to abrade grooves in the back of the blade. That was replacement #1. I broke the plastic handle on my grey tank by bumping it when doing something else. That was replacement #2. Other than those two, I have made no replacements in 10 years of use.Is it more effort than some of the above approaches? Yes, but I don't mind a bit of PM to avoid problems in inconvenient locations.Ken F in NM 1 Likes
Re: Black Tank Valve Lubrication Reply #7 – December 15, 2018, 06:06:07 pm WD 40 is great for some things not so great for others. When it was mentioned in the video, I had already made plans to use a real oil product or synthetic lubricant rather than WD. Perhaps some Marvel Mystery Oil. As long as the lubricant can be delivered through the hole (the zerk fitting has merit), with enough “reach” to effect lubrication, then there may be hope. I’ve know that the R&R of the valve set was emminent and I was ok with it. While looking at the RB valve assembly, I knew I was in for a new adventure. If this approach works, great. If not, then no great lose and I’ll go the extra mile to do it the old fashioned way. Tried and true methods are often the most sensible course of action. Then again...Nothing Ventured, Nothing Gained. Time to break out those rubber gloves.Kent
Re: Black Tank Valve Lubrication Reply #8 – December 15, 2018, 06:36:49 pm Quote from: Kenneth Fears - December 15, 2018, 05:37:13 pmMy dump valve maintenance is, around once a year, I dump and flush the tanks, then with a bucket under the valve, I disassemble it, clean the slides, the blade and the O-rings, then I lube the O-rings, both sides of the blades, the slide grooves and the shaft with a thin film of vaseline. Every time I have done so, the inner O-ring has had some material present that reduces its flexibility, and eventually would allow a leak if left. The cleaning restores it. No amount of lubrication by itself would get rid of some of those salt-like deposits. Ken F in NMHaving replaced the valves (took me 2 days with the required 3 visits to the hardware store for a plumbing project) I would not want to do it every year, but then again, having modified the set up to make installation of the new valves possible, maybe a regular clean up would be worth it...
Re: Black Tank Valve Lubrication Reply #9 – December 15, 2018, 06:48:10 pm I think the idea in the OP is very creative and I like it. Having said that I had a camper for over twenty years that I never did a thing to as far as the valves are concerned and never had an issue. My new to me 97 LD valves work fine but I have no idea what maintenance they have had or if they are original. IMO carrying extra valves is a bit anal but sure as I say that I will have a problem next time out. Probably jinxing myself here.
Re: Black Tank Valve Lubrication Reply #10 – December 15, 2018, 08:44:14 pm Quote from: Sawyer - December 15, 2018, 06:48:10 pm IMO carrying extra valves is a bit anal but sure as I say that I will have a problem next time out. Probably jinxing myself here. It seems the spare parts you carry never seem to get needed. It's the ones you've left behind . . . .I broke the blackwater valve when backing the rig into the yard. Fortunately I was just coming from flushing the tanks. 2 Likes
Re: Black Tank Valve Lubrication Reply #11 – December 16, 2018, 08:14:50 am Quote from: joel wiley - December 15, 2018, 08:44:14 pmIt seems the spare parts you carry never seem to get needed. It's the ones you've left behind . . . .I broke the blackwater valve when backing the rig into the yard. Fortunately I was just coming from flushing the tanks. A person can go nuts carrying spare parts and I guess at some point you have to decide for yourself what's the odds of this part breaking and if it breaks can I find the part easily wherever I am. When I had my slide in camper on a 4x4 pickup I used to go to extremely remote places thirty or more miles out some barely traveled dirt road and I brought everything I could think of that might help me fix any conceivable problem. Now that I have an LD that doesn't get too far off the pavement I don't really concern myself to much with anything but the basics. Where to draw the line is a decision we all have to make for ourselves with tools and spare parts. 1 Likes
Re: Black Tank Valve Lubrication- Spare parts Reply #12 – December 16, 2018, 03:57:51 pm I carry the parts that I have experienced with breaking or have gone bad on other forum members.24 years of LD ownership and working on so many LDs has provided a lot of information.Among the major parts carried are:-Engine coils (2), each spark plug has its own coil and are known to fail without warning. Failure normally will set the "Check engine light" and a code indicating which coil failed. A 7mm, 1/4" socket is carried to remove the coil's attachment screw.-Water pump, they always go out on a Saturday night when you are many miles away from a replacement.-Spare serpentine fan belt-Fusable silicone tape for radiator and heater hose repair-Refrigerator and water heater control board, with spare fuses and links.-Faucet plugs, to cap off leaking faucets Temporarly water faucet plugs. | Flickr -Propane regulator-Toilet water valve and vacuum breaker.-Bathroom door lock and cabinet hardware-Spare dump valves- old valves that have been cleaned. Spare dump valve cap.-Plumbing repair parts-Head light bulbs. Spare running light bulbs and plastic caps.-Complete set of fuses for the chassis and the coach.-Fluids- oil, antifreeze, brake fluid, power steering fluid, ATFAlso carried is an assortment of adhesives, sealants, oil, spray lubes, tapes, screws, hose clamps, Eternabond tape, various types of wire, velcro, string, zip-ties, rope, bungees and other small stuff.A good collection of tools (mechanical and electrical), 2 jacks and tire changing gear. Tire plug kit.Ax, folding shovel, large pipe wrench and 4' cheater (also used with 1/2" breaker bar to loosen and tighten lug nuts.We own a small, 23.5' LD, everything above fits.We like to camp in the backcountry where a breakdown is very inconvenient, the parts carried cover most of things that will leave you hanging until the part is fixed or replaced. Almost every piece carried has been used at sometime either by us or our fellow LD campers and friends .Larry 1 Likes
Re: Black Tank Valve Lubrication Reply #13 – December 16, 2018, 06:04:55 pm Larry must be an excellent packer!
Re: Black Tank Valve Lubrication Reply #14 – December 16, 2018, 06:42:32 pm Quote from: Larry W - December 16, 2018, 03:57:51 pmI carry the parts that I have experienced with breaking or have gone bad on other forum members.24 years of LD ownership and working on so many LDs has provided a lot of information.Among the major parts carried are:-Engine coils (2), each spark plug has its own coil and are known to fail without warning. Failure normally will set the "Check engine light" and a code indicating which coil failed. A 7mm, 1/4" socket is carried to remove the coil's attachment screw.-Water pump, they always go out on a Saturday night when you are many miles away from a replacement.-Spare serpentine fan belt-Fusable silicone tape for radiator and heater hose repair-Refrigerator and water heater control board, with spare fuses and links.-Faucet plugs, to cap off leaking faucets Temporarly water faucet plugs. | Flickr -Propane regulator-Toilet water valve and vacuum breaker.-Bathroom door lock and cabinet hardware-Spare dump valves- old valves that have been cleaned. Spare dump valve cap.-Plumbing repair parts-Head light bulbs. Spare running light bulbs and plastic caps.-Complete set of fuses for the chassis and the coach.-Fluids- oil, antifreeze, brake fluid, power steering fluid, ATFAlso carried is an assortment of adhesives, sealants, oil, spray lubes, tapes, screws, hose clamps, Eternabond tape, various types of wire, velcro, string, zip-ties, rope, bungees and other small stuff.A good collection of tools (mechanical and electrical), 2 jacks and tire changing gear. Tire plug kit.Ax, folding shovel, large pipe wrench and 4' cheater (also used with 1/2" breaker bar to loosen and tighten lug nuts.We own a small, 23.5' LD, everything above fits.We like to camp in the backcountry where a breakdown is very inconvenient, the parts carried cover most of things that will leave you hanging until the part is fixed or replaced. Almost every piece carried has been used at sometime either by us or our fellow LD campers and friends .LarryWell at least you were already packed for the Y2K hysteria. Chris 3 Likes
Re: Black Tank Valve Lubrication Reply #15 – December 17, 2018, 07:35:13 am Larry, I am with you on most things. I do not know how to install a serpentine belt, so I have not carried one. I did have it replaced at 60,000 miles, just because.The faucet plugs in the picture look small. So they are large enough to screw into the kitchen or bath faucets?I don't get a hit on faucet plugs on Amazon.-Propane regulator - Really? large pipe wrench - what pray tell could it be used on?
Re: Black Tank Valve Lubrication Reply #16 – December 17, 2018, 07:52:02 am My LD is 23.5 and I have a difficult time fitting all the toys and camping gear into it much less every conceivable emergency item but then again maybe I just bring too many toys. One thing I am thinking of making fit though is a couple of reflective triangles in case of breakdown. A recent incident in my travel van along a curvy road with absolutely no shoulder to get off on convinced me this would be worth the space in my rapidly approaching spring vacation.
Re: Black Tank Valve Lubrication Reply #17 – December 17, 2018, 12:19:41 pm Hi Sawyer; A 1997 FL is built on a E350 chassis with a a GVWR of 11,500 #. Larry's FL is on the E450 chassis, one of the first available. As such his is four inches wider than our coaches, and has 2500# more capacity. The wider coach and 'beefier' chassis use up some of that extra GVWR, but I'd wager that he can stuff at least 1000# more into his motorhome than we can. I've got the TK on an E350, and with the Kwikee levelers, the weight is within 50 # of the maximum, with me not in it. Every couple of years I go through the storage bins and drawers in and out to 'cull the herd' of things I haven't really used. RonB 1 Likes
Re: Black Tank Valve Lubrication Reply #18 – December 17, 2018, 12:59:33 pm Quote from: Don Malpas - December 17, 2018, 07:35:13 amThe faucet plugs in the picture look small. So they are large enough to screw into the kitchen or bath faucets?I don't get a hit on faucet plugs on Amazon.-Propane regulator - Really?-large pipe wrench - what pray tell could it be used on?Don The title on the faucet plug's photos explain how the plugs were cut off an old bathroom faucet and then filled with epoxy.You will not find them Amazon, they are an DIY item.I have had two propane regulators go bad, both in inconvenient places.The spare has also been used once by a fellow camper whose regulator had started leaking .Your rig is old, expect the regulator to die someday.The pipe wrench and breaker bar are used to open sewer clean-out caps, We driveway camp a lot and when we need to dump the tank, the macerator pump can be used to empty them into the sewer, eliminating the need to pack up and find a local dump station, assuming one exist nearby..Larry
Re: Black Tank Valve Lubrication Reply #19 – December 17, 2018, 01:08:25 pm Hi Larry; I know cast iron clean out caps exist but all of the ones Iv'e seen lately are plastic. 'Channel-lock' pliers should work. Pipe wrenches are good for 'bashing' things though. At 19 years, Bluebelle is getting a spare propane valve, and I'll make sure I have the wrenches to change it, (and pipe goo, snoop, improvised manometer) RonB
Re: Black Tank Valve Lubrication Reply #20 – December 17, 2018, 01:10:44 pm Quote from: Sawyer - December 17, 2018, 07:52:02 amMy LD is 23.5 and I have a difficult time fitting all the toys and camping gear into it much less every conceivable emergency item but then again maybe I just bring too many toys. We bought our first LD after years of backpacking, sailboat and kayak camping and backcountry travel out of a VW Bug and 4X4 pickup.The 23.5' FL seemed like a cavern to us, with all the available space.Pack efficiently and you can get everything in you need, including all your toys, we carry a lot of toys too.The 23.5-24' FLs have empty spaces that can be developed for storage.Examples.Behind the barrel chairs.Barrel chair storage | FlickrAbove the toilet.Bath storage shelf | FlickrWasted space inside the battery compartment/table.Wine rack | FlickrLarry
Re: Black Tank Valve Lubrication Reply #21 – December 17, 2018, 01:29:53 pm Quote from: RonB - December 17, 2018, 01:08:25 pmI know cast iron clean out caps exist but all of the ones Iv'e seen lately are plastic. 'Channel-lock' pliers should work. Older homes have cast iron sewer pipes and caps, only newer homes use ABS plastic.It can take all the strength I have, using the pipe wrench and cheater, to break loose cast iron caps that have not been removed in years. The 4' cheater is also used with the 1/2" breaker bar, if a wheel nuts need to be loosen or tightened.Larry
Re: Black Tank Valve Lubrication Reply #22 – December 17, 2018, 04:22:43 pm Quote from: Larry W - December 17, 2018, 01:10:44 pmWe bought our first LD after years of backpacking, sailboat and kayak camping and backcountry travel out of a VW Bug and 4X4 pickup.The 23.5' FL seemed like a cavern to us, with all the available space.Pack efficiently and you can get everything in you need, including all your toys, we carry a lot of toys too.The 23.5-24' FLs have empty spaces that can be developed for storage.Examples.Behind the barrel chairs.Barrel chair storage | FlickrAbove the toilet.Bath storage shelf | FlickrWasted space inside the battery compartment/table.Wine rack | FlickrLarryGood ideas and I'll add to it. When winterizing my LD for the first time this fall I realized there's lots of room in the water pump area below the closet floor. Be a good spot to stash stuff like a spare water pump and possibly small valuables that you might want to hide when away from camp.
Re: Black Tank Valve Lubrication Reply #23 – December 18, 2018, 07:46:11 am Thanks for trying to explain the water faucet plugs. I don't get it, nor do I understand how they would be used. I am guessing the rubber grommets in the faucet have failed and new seals are not available or the faucet cannot be taken apart without C4 due to scale buildup. Do they screw into the faucet exit? If so, I see some brass ones that might do the same.
Re: Black Tank Valve Lubrication Reply #24 – December 18, 2018, 11:22:33 am Quote from: Larry W - December 17, 2018, 12:59:33 pmThe title on the faucet plug's photos explain how the plugs were cut off an old bathroom faucet and then filled with epoxy.You will not find them Amazon, they are an DIY item.I'm wondering if the city water screw-in plug would fit the plumbing lines? Since I have extra's plugs, I'm going to take one to Home Depot and test it on one of their plumbing hoses. I'll post the results of this experiment.
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