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Topic: Batteries, Shore Power and Converter/Charger issues. (Read 799 times) previous topic - next topic
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Batteries, Shore Power and Converter/Charger issues.
Hi friends,

I am a full timer in my 1990 LD Mid Bath. A few days ago I woke to the sound of my fridge clicking over and over trying to get spark enough to ignite the propane necessary to keep running. This was confusing to me as I have been plugged in to shore power for months while visiting family in the Sierra Nevadas.
When I checked the battery meter on my LED board my battery level showed just one red square at "low." No breakers were tripped and I was indeed still plugged in. No GFI trip at the outlet either. I swapped my power cord (with a 25' extender) into a new outlet and immediately checked my batt levels and I was back to full bars and in "charge" state. A few hours later? Back to low...although the fridge was unaffected.

When I went to my breaker box to investigate further I noticed a humming coming from what my manual calls "Section C", the lower part of the breaker panel. I believe this is my converter/charger.

My converter/charger and 110 receipt/110 fridge is wired into the same 15 amp breaker. When I removed the c/c and left only the 110 receipt/110 fridge I heard no hum and maintained all lights, outlets, and fridge. (while still plugged into shore)

Although I cant figure out why, at the first instance,  I lost all power when plugged into shore I have concluded that maybe that I am in need of a new converter/charger.

Given all the details would any of you also agree that my c/c is the issue? I currently have just the 110 wired into that breaker and left the c/c disconnected. So far (3-4 hours) all is still up and running.

Can you please recommend a new c/c? I am willing to invest in the best c/c necessary as I feel this is an integral component to my rig. I am concerned though about fit. Are all of these c/c universal? Will any brand/model simply slip right into that "section C" compartment under the breakers? Or is there something specific I should look for? Also, I have been doing some research and discovered smart vs dumb converters. Do any of you have an opinion there? Seems like 4 stage smart is the way to go but I am so new at all of this I'd love a pro's opinion.

Thank you all so much for your time and help!!

Mike
resist the mundane, embrace the unknown
1990 MB
Re: Batteries, Shore Power and Converter/Charger issues.
Reply #1 –
Quote from: MuseMe  - 
Hi friends,

I am a full timer in my 1990 LD Mid Bath. A few days ago I woke to the sound of my fridge clicking over and over trying to get spark enough to ignite the propane necessary to keep running. This was confusing to me as I have been plugged in to shore power for months while visiting family in the Sierra Nevadas.
When I checked the battery meter on my LED board my battery level showed just one red square at "low." No breakers were tripped and I was indeed still plugged in. No GFI trip at the outlet either. I swapped my power cord (with a 25' extender) into a new outlet and immediately checked my batt levels and I was back to full bars and in "charge" state. A few hours later? Back to low...although the fridge was unaffected.

When I went to my breaker box to investigate further I noticed a humming coming from what my manual calls "Section C", the lower part of the breaker panel. I believe this is my converter/charger.

My converter/charger and 110 receipt/110 fridge is wired into the same 15 amp breaker. When I removed the c/c and left only the 110 receipt/110 fridge I heard no hum and maintained all lights, outlets, and fridge. (while still plugged into shore)

Although I cant figure out why, at the first instance,  I lost all power when plugged into shore I have concluded that maybe that I am in need of a new converter/charger.

Given all the details would any of you also agree that my c/c is the issue? I currently have just the 110 wired into that breaker and left the c/c disconnected. So far (3-4 hours) all is still up and running.

Can you please recommend a new c/c? I am willing to invest in the best c/c necessary as I feel this is an integral component to my rig. I am concerned though about fit. Are all of these c/c universal? Will any brand/model simply slip right into that "section C" compartment under the breakers? Or is there something specific I should look for? Also, I have been doing some research and discovered smart vs dumb converters. Do any of you have an opinion there? Seems like 4 stage smart is the way to go but I am so new at all of this I'd love a pro's opinion.

Thank you all so much for your time and help!!

Mike
Mike, I will allow our forum technical experts to give you advice, but I want to welcome you to LDOF and hope you get your questions answered soon.

Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Re: Batteries, Shore Power and Converter/Charger issues.
Reply #2 –
Quote from: MuseMe  - 
Can you please recommend a new c/c?

Assuming you need a new one - something I leave to others to help you troubleshoot - you might give these guys a call.

BestConverter - Converters, Inverters, Electrical Supplies, Electronics

They were referred to me by other happy LD customers and treated me right. Very knowledgeable, great prices and shipped ASAP. Tell them what you have, they'll advise what will work.
2011 RB
Re: Batteries, Shore Power and Converter/Charger issues.
Reply #3 –
I would second the recommendation for best converters, although I’m not sure you’re there yet.

I didn’t 100% follow what is going on, probably because I’m not familiar with LD wiring from that vintage, but are you sure that the batteries are well maintained and holding a good charge?

A few months on shore power with a 90’s era converter could have boiled off some water and caused problems.

Rich
‘03 MB in NC
2003 MB
Re: Batteries, Shore Power and Converter/Charger issues.
Reply #4 –
With the limited information provided,I suggest having a qualified electrician check and tighten the wires on the breakers and busbars inside the Power Center's 120-VAC section. There may be a loose connection or a damaged circuit breaker that is causing the intermittent power problem.
It is not uncommon to find loose and sometimes burnt wires and circuit breakers, inside the Power Center..
The humming noise is normal for an operating converter.
Power Center problems can usually be repaired and not need replacement. The converter can be replaced separately.
Your batteries should also be tested.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Batteries, Shore Power and Converter/Charger issues.
Reply #5 –
Larry, thank you so much for your advice. I am self taught in all areas of electrical work and try to do my best to tackle the simple and basic stuff before calling in the pros. Can you elaborate what you mean by testing the batteries? How can I do this by myself and what should I be looking for? The batteries installed appear to be marine batteries and were added new when I bought my rig 3 years ago. I'm not sure they are the kind that require filling. There doesn't seem to be a way to do that as the batteries themselves appear sealed.
resist the mundane, embrace the unknown
1990 MB
Re: Batteries, Shore Power and Converter/Charger issues.
Reply #6 –
Do you have a battery disconnect switch installed? It would be located in the battery compartment, connecting the two batteries. If so, jiggle the knob, or switch it several times. They have been known to fail due to poor contacts, and the symptoms can be similar to what you describe.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit
Re: Batteries, Shore Power and Converter/Charger issues.
Reply #7 –
"My converter/charger and 110 receipt/110 fridge is wired into the same 15 amp breaker. When I removed the c/c and left only the 110 receipt/110 fridge I heard no hum and maintained all lights, outlets, and fridge. (while still plugged into shore)

Although I cant figure out why, at the first instance,  I lost all power when plugged into shore I have concluded that maybe that I am in need of a new converter/charger."


Just my two cents on this but if your fridge started working when you left the cc out of the loop it seems the issue is in the cc itself.
Discuss anything with anyone and disagree agreeably. Always be polite and respectful.
 
Re: Batteries, Shore Power and Converter/Charger issues.
Reply #8 –
I would suggest just talking to Randy @ Best and get on with it. He set me up with my GD 6 years ago and it still works perfectly.

The problems with troubleshooting is you can spend/waste a lot of time/mental energy trying to hunt down the source(s), when the easiest course is to just replace the main suspect.

Now, this of course is moderated by cost, in that it's not a process suggested when parts are expensive. But electronics all share one common characteristic: they keep getting cheaper. Don't recall the price of my GD, but I think it was in the range of $100 bucks.

Replacing the unit also gives you a chance (and motivation) to do as Larry suggested, and start checking & tightening everything in the battery/charging system.
Re: Batteries, Shore Power and Converter/Charger issues.
Reply #9 –
Quote from: snerf  - 


The problems with troubleshooting is you can spend/waste a lot of time/mental energy trying to hunt down the source(s), when the easiest course is to just replace the main suspect.





Some of us are gluttons for punishment and thrive on trouble shooting. I have one of the first chainsaws ever made. Takes two men to run it and someday it will run, well maybe. Been working on it and trying to find parts for a couple of years now and I may die trying to get this thing running but ..... :D
Discuss anything with anyone and disagree agreeably. Always be polite and respectful.
Re: Batteries, Shore Power and Converter/Charger issues.
Reply #10 –
Quote from: snerf  - 
I would suggest just talking to Randy @ Best and get on with it. He set me up with my GD 6 years ago and it still works perfectly.
The problems with troubleshooting is you can spend/waste a lot of time/mental energy trying to hunt down the source(s), when the easiest course is to just replace the main suspect.

I don't suggest changing parts until the cause of the problem(s) are solved.
Anyone who has done a lot of electrical troubleshooting knows there are dozens of possible causes, many of which are not immediately noticeable.
The issue could be as simple as a bad connection or battery switch.
This is why I somewhat restrain myself from remote electrical troubleshooting discussions, there are too many possibilities and not enough information to pick the right one.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Batteries, Shore Power and Converter/Charger issues.
Reply #11 –
Quote from: Sawyer  - 
"My converter/charger and 110 receipt/110 fridge is wired into the same 15 amp breaker. When I removed the c/c and left only the 110 receipt/110 fridge I heard no hum and maintained all lights, outlets, and fridge. (while still plugged into shore)

Although I cant figure out why, at the first instance,  I lost all power when plugged into shore I have concluded that maybe that I am in need of a new converter/charger."


Just my two cents on this but if your fridge started working when you left the cc out of the loop it seems the issue is in the cc itself.

some new info:

the fridge DID work when I pulled the cc out of the loop...until it didn't. A few hours after this post I returned to find my fridge completely powerless. Dead.

My next experiment was to run an extension cord from my fridge directly into shore power and then add all wires back into breaker. When I went to sleep around midnight last night my battery levels showed a charge state, the little hum that Larry said was normal had returned and all seemed well. I woke about an hour ago (8 hours later) to find the batteries totally dead again. I flipped the breaker off...waited 5 seconds or so and flipped it back on...batteries back to charge state.

My limited knowledge tells me that perhaps I should start with replacing my breaker? Seems like a quick and cheap step along the process of elimination.
resist the mundane, embrace the unknown
1990 MB
Re: Batteries, Shore Power and Converter/Charger issues.
Reply #12 –
You guys have all been so helpful. The good thing here is that I am not on the road and actually have the time and space to troubleshoot this. I welcome it. I view these kinds of problems as an excuse to learn more and become better acquainted with my rig. I've picked up so many little mechanical skills in the last few years just by being an owner of an LD of an older vintage. For me, some.of this electrical stuff is like trying to understand a new language. I know my rig is trying to tell me something and if I become a bit more fluent at least I can decipher something that needs fixing from something that needs replacing. The internet has been invaluable for this! :) I appreciate all of you.
resist the mundane, embrace the unknown
1990 MB
Re: Batteries, Shore Power and Converter/Charger issues.
Reply #13 –
Quote from: Chris Horst  - 
Mike, I will allow our forum technical experts to give you advice, but I want to welcome you to LDOF and hope you get your questions answered soon.

Chris


Appreciate you, Chris!
resist the mundane, embrace the unknown
1990 MB
Re: Batteries, Shore Power and Converter/Charger issues.
Reply #14 –
Quote from: rich  - 
I would second the recommendation for best converters, although I’m not sure you’re there yet.

I didn’t 100% follow what is going on, probably because I’m not familiar with LD wiring from that vintage, but are you sure that the batteries are well maintained and holding a good charge?

A few months on shore power with a 90’s era converter could have boiled off some water and caused problems.

Rich
‘03 MB in NC

Seems to me that I may have a confluence of issues at the moment. My main problem is keeping my batteries at a charge state. But through all of this trial and error I've learned that when the batteries come off of charging it isn't very long (2-3 hours) that my charge level sinks to LOW.  I understand now why Larry says it's hard to sleuth this kind of thing out remotely. So many variables. But I haven't lost my spirit yet! Still really interested to find exactly what my problem or problems are.
resist the mundane, embrace the unknown
1990 MB
Re: Batteries, Shore Power and Converter/Charger issues.
Reply #15 –
Quote from: Steve  - 
Do you have a battery disconnect switch installed? It would be located in the battery compartment, connecting the two batteries. If so, jiggle the knob, or switch it several times. They have been known to fail due to poor contacts, and the symptoms can be similar to what you describe.

Steve

I wish it was something this easy. I searched my batt compartment and no switch or breaker or anything beyond batts and cables. I also referred to my manual and no mention of a disconnect switch. BUT maybe this would be a good mod for the future.

Thanks for thinking out loud, Steve!
resist the mundane, embrace the unknown
1990 MB
Re: Batteries, Shore Power and Converter/Charger issues.
Reply #16 –
Quote from: MuseMe  - 
some new info:

the fridge DID work when I pulled the cc out of the loop...until it didn't. A few hours after this post I returned to find my fridge completely powerless. Dead.

My next experiment was to run an extension cord from my fridge directly into shore power and then add all wires back into breaker. When I went to sleep around midnight last night my battery levels showed a charge state, the little hum that Larry said was normal had returned and all seemed well. I woke about an hour ago (8 hours later) to find the batteries totally dead again. I flipped the breaker off...waited 5 seconds or so and flipped it back on...batteries back to charge state.

My limited knowledge tells me that perhaps I should start with replacing my breaker? Seems like a quick and cheap step along the process of elimination.
Sounds like you are systematically tracking this down.
Discuss anything with anyone and disagree agreeably. Always be polite and respectful.
Re: Batteries, Shore Power and Converter/Charger issues.
Reply #18 –
"My next experiment was to run an extension cord from my fridge directly into shore power..."

I am a little confused as to why you thought this step necessary! Okay with connecting one end of the 'extension' cord to shore power, but where exactly did you connect the other end (at the fridge)??

And are you aware that the fridge needs both AC and 12v, the very thing that seems to be "low"?   ::)
Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Cedar
2004 30'IB (Island Bed)
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery
Live for the day!
Re: Batteries, Shore Power and Converter/Charger issues.
Reply #19 –
Quote from: Lazy Bones  - 
"My next experiment was to run an extension cord from my fridge directly into shore power..."

I am a little confused as to why you thought this step necessary! Okay with connecting one end of the 'extension' cord to shore power, but where exactly did you connect the other end (at the fridge)??

And are you aware that the fridge needs both AC and 12v, the very thing that seems to be "low"?   ::)
I wasn't aware of that. I figured once you plugged in AC took over. I learned something today.
Discuss anything with anyone and disagree agreeably. Always be polite and respectful.
Re: Batteries, Shore Power and Converter/Charger issues.
Reply #20 –
Quote from: Lazy Bones  - 
"My next experiment was to run an extension cord from my fridge directly into shore power..."

I am a little confused as to why you thought this step necessary! Okay with connecting one end of the 'extension' cord to shore power, but where exactly did you connect the other end (at the fridge)??

And are you aware that the fridge needs both AC and 12v, the very thing that seems to be "low"?   ::)

On the exterior of my rig there is a panel that accesses the fridge components. Inside of that compartment is a 110v receptacle that the fridge is plugged into. I unplugged that cord, connected an extension and ran directly to an outlet outside of the house. That way I can still trouble shoot without losing all my frozen and refrigerated goods. Am I missing something? Was this a silly thing to do?
resist the mundane, embrace the unknown
1990 MB
Re: Batteries, Shore Power and Converter/Charger issues.
Reply #21 –
Quote from: Sawyer  - 
I wasn't aware of that. I figured once you plugged in AC took over. I learned something today.


Yes. I also was unaware. Usually as soon as shore power takes over my fridge switches from "gas" to "ac". My thinking here was let's just get the fridge completely out of the loop for groceries sake haha. So is this true in every case? Without 12v my fridge will not run on AC alone? Then why when I woke up this morning with no 12v was my fridge just fine being run directly to shore? (learning new little tidbits here)
resist the mundane, embrace the unknown
1990 MB
Re: Batteries, Shore Power and Converter/Charger issues.
Reply #22 –
Quote from: MuseMe  - 
On the exterior of my rig there is a panel that accesses the fridge components. Inside of that compartment is a 110v receptacle that the fridge is plugged into. I unplugged that cord, connected an extension and ran directly to an outlet outside of the house. That way I can still trouble shoot without losing all my frozen and refrigerated goods. Am I missing something? Was this a silly thing to do?


Not if it's working.
Discuss anything with anyone and disagree agreeably. Always be polite and respectful.
Re: Batteries, Shore Power and Converter/Charger issues.
Reply #23 –
While the refrigerator cooling section can be powered by either 120-VAC, provided by the generator or shore power, or propane, the control board is powered by 12-VDC, provided by the chassis battery or the converter. Besides the control board, the refrigerator's gas valve is also powered by 12-VDC.
The battery needs a minimum charge to operate the refrigerator's control board.

As mentioned before, I suspect the problem is in the 120-VAC section of the Power Center.
An intermittent disrupting of the converter's power could allow the battery to discharge to the point where the refrigerator's control board cannot operate, even if the refrigerator has a good source of propane or 120-VAC.
A badly discharged battery may be adding another layer of confusion to your problem.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Batteries, Shore Power and Converter/Charger issues.
Reply #24 –
So theoretically and apparently in practice you can run your refrigerator on AC alone but the lights on the control board won't work. Would this also effect temperature control and lead to freezing everything in the refrigerator?
Discuss anything with anyone and disagree agreeably. Always be polite and respectful.