California Rough Highways November 10, 2018, 04:32:53 pm I haven't ever driven in California, but I've heard the roads are in rough condition. I just read the following comment on another Forum - "California highways are somewhat worse than Highway 1 in Vietnam after B52 bomber raids." I'm guessing rough is the wrong adjective. I just can't imagine public roads in such bad condition!!
Re: California Rough Highways Reply #1 – November 10, 2018, 05:01:17 pm "I just can't imagine public roads in such bad condition!!"----Well, you would rapidly become a believer after one trip over a very large number of roads, from surface streets to freeways and everything in between. CA is not the only state with lousy roads, but because of the state's size, numbers of miles of road surface, and massive amounts of traffic, there are many opportunities to experience broken, cracked, pot-holed, sagging, lumpy, truck-grooved, poorly patched, and really ugly surfaces. Once in a while, one encounters a smooth road surface, but any joy and relief from the usual crash-bang are usually brief experiences. http://www.tripnet.org/docs/Urban_Roads_TRIP_Report_October_2018.pdf
Re: California Rough Highways Reply #2 – November 10, 2018, 05:20:31 pm The report that Joan linked to is not a surprise when it comes to California's roads. What I was totally surprised about is how little was said about Louisiana's roads. Last time I was there I made it a point to stay off the Interstate and travel the back roads. I can understand that with a large part of that state being swamp it's probably difficult to construct a road much less maintain one. But the hot button here is transitioning to and from bridge abutments. Talk about a whoopty-doo! And they are all like that!
Re: California Rough Highways Reply #3 – November 10, 2018, 05:48:54 pm It depends on what road you are traveling on. If a major route used by the big rigs, good chance it is beat up.I-5 carries thousand of big rigs daily and has sections that rattle the heck out of the rig, other sections are smooth. When heading up the I-5, I move over to the left lane whenever possible.So many of the metropolitan roads are so heavily traveled that maintaining them is a huge issue, it's tough to work on them when the only time feasible is at night. The positive news is the gas tax repeal proposition failed, so there will be a lot more money available for road construction and improvement. Larry
Re: California Rough Highways Reply #4 – November 10, 2018, 06:13:33 pm Its only a positive if they spend the money on the roads until that happens I don't see it being a positive . Jody 3 Likes
Re: California Rough Highways Reply #5 – November 10, 2018, 06:34:42 pm I'll concur with the rough conditions of roads in California, especially the freeways. As Larry mentioned, staying in the left lanes as much as possible when traveling the major freeways makes it smoother.The community we live in is another example of bad roads due to lack of proper maintenance. At 41 square miles, Bear Valley Springs is the second largest gate-guarded community in the US. While a beautiful place to live, the combination of elevations from 4200 to 6900 feet and 110 miles of CSD-maintained roads makes it an expensive challenge to keep up. As a result, many of the roads, especially higher elevation ones, are in poor condition. I suspect we will be paying more in the near future to live here, beyond the increased California gas tax.
Re: California Rough Highways Reply #6 – November 11, 2018, 09:11:27 am The other bad thing about California roads is trash and debri from wrecks. Neither gets picked up and it reminds me of driving through a third world country. Another thing I noticed lately when going to visit my mom in Morgan Hill is the beautiful landscaping the freeways once had has been trimmed way back or completely removed. Apparently that was to reduce areas for homeless people to set up camps in. As for the condition of the roads themselves they are bone and teeth jarring and I cringe at what it's doing to my vehicle when I go there. I generally go down through Central Oregon on nice smoothe and clean roads then when I get to Weed and start heading south on I-5 I say here we go. Hang on to your wallet and your teeth. Gas is gonna get way expensive and roads are gonna get way bad. Welcome to California. 1 Likes
Re: California Rough Highways Reply #7 – November 11, 2018, 10:13:25 am "...other bad thing about California roads is trash and debri from wrecks."----Unfortunately true; in the immediate area local to me, the worst trash dumps are Highways 85 (mostly litter and assorted trash) and 17 (crash debris), mostly on the "north" side down from Summit to the reservoir. The homeless camps along the freeways are periodically rooted out and the trash piled up for collection, but, like the roadsides, it's usually a very short-lived clean up. (Again, California is not alone in having these issues.)
Re: California Rough Highways Reply #8 – November 11, 2018, 11:10:23 am Quote from: Joan - November 11, 2018, 10:13:25 am"...other bad thing about California roads is trash and debri from wrecks."----Unfortunately true; in the immediate area local to me, the worst trash dumps are Highways 85 (mostly litter and assorted trash) and 17 (crash debris), mostly on the "north" side down from Summit to the reservoir. The homeless camps along the freeways are periodically rooted out and the trash piled up for collection, but, like the roadsides, it's usually a very short-lived clean up. (Again, California is not alone in having these issues.) Homeless issue is everywhere but in all my travels I have not seen debri from wrecks just pushed to the side of the road and left there to accumulate over the years. The amount of just plain trash is also an assault to the senses. My brother is a fireman in San Jose and he says there's just no funds to remove debri from wrecks so there it sits. My reply is what about all these gas taxes here?Where does that money go? Down the rabbit hole is his answer. 1 Likes
Re: California Rough Highways Reply #9 – November 12, 2018, 02:03:31 pm We live in the Bay Area and experience the awfulness of 17 every time we head over it in our Lazy Daze. But 17 is a joy compared to 680 and parts of 5 as others mentioned.However, the real reason I'm chiming in is to give a vote for New York as having the worst highway we've ever driven on - plus the most outrageous tolls we ever had to pay. I wish I could remember the number of the highway. We were on our way to Vermont at the time and just ended up on the highway from h-e-double hockey sticks. There was no way to avoid driving through giant potholes that we were sure would blow out our tires or bend our suspension or frame. Nothing we've hit on our highways here in California is anywhere near as bad as what we experienced in New York - and paid about $30 every 10 miles to 'enjoy.' The only good part is that we were in our "old" Roadtrek Sprinter model. So our Lazy Daze didn't take the beating and we definitely will take pains to avoid the worst of New York next time we visit.Jim & DebSanta Cruz, CA2016 TK
Re: California Rough Highways Reply #10 – November 12, 2018, 03:02:54 pm Quote from: Sawyer - November 11, 2018, 11:10:23 amHomeless issue is everywhere but in all my travels I have not seen debris from wrecks just pushed to the side of the road and left there to accumulate over the years. Exactly where have you seen mass amounts of crash debris left on the side of the roads, for years?This doesn't agree with my observations and I have lived here all my life.California has a huge population and its fair share of accidents and trash but it does get cleaned up.If it wasn't, we would be neck deep in trash and crashed vehicles.We have travel for years in Washington and can think of a few trashy towns and areas. Same goes for just about every state we have travel through.Stereotyping California as a "trash pit" is just plain wrong and not appreciated .Larry 1 Likes
Re: California Rough Highways Reply #11 – November 13, 2018, 08:46:30 am Quote from: Larry W - November 12, 2018, 03:02:54 pmExactly where have you seen mass amounts of crash debris left on the side of the roads, for years?This doesn't agree with my observations and I have lived here all my life.California has a huge population and its fair share of accidents and trash but it does get cleaned up.If it wasn't, we would be neck deep in trash and crashed vehicles.We have travel for years in Washington and can think of a few trashy towns and areas. Same goes for just about every state we have travel through.Stereotyping California as a "trash pit" is just plain wrong and not appreciated .LarryI can only speak for the admittedly limited area I'm familiar with. I turn off of 5 down the 680 to 101 to Morgan Hill. Debri from wrecks is all along the roads and trash is everywhere especially as you get near San Jose. That's bad enough but the road itself is bone jarring. I have to laugh at my mom when she visits me and complains about the three miles of dirt road into my house. It's just an old logging road and kind of rough and rocky but I'd much rather drive a vehicle slowly up that than hit huge potholes at 70mph not to mention there's no trash just beautiful trees and a stream. Not any homeless camps either. LOL I have started going the longer route down 5 and then over Pachico pass then up 101 lately though. It's a much nicer drive and the only really bad road is a few miles up 101 between Hollister and Morgan Hill. That also gives me a chance to stock up on good California fruit at one of the many fruit stands. That's also the route I took during my short stint as an OTR truck driver when I hauled Garlic from Gilroy to Florida. Saw a lot of road during that era of my life and California roads are definitely some of the worst.As for trashy Washington towns I'm curious what towns those would be? I can think of Yakima that labels itself "The Palm springs of Washington" which always gives me a good laugh. There's a section there along a rail to trail that I go by on the way into Rainer NP that is lined with homeless camps but other than that everything seems pretty nice.Sorry if I offended you with my California roads comment and as is obvious most of my relatives live there so I'm not a California hater. In fact I grew up in Redondo Beach in the 60s and it was the California dream come to life. Smoking pot chasing girls and catching waves was the order of the day and I feel blessed to have been a teenager in that place at that time.
Re: California Rough Highways Reply #12 – November 13, 2018, 10:05:06 am To slightly change the subject, if you really want to get close up with trash and the homeless issue, try riding Amtrack. We took the train several years back from Paso Robles to the Tacoma, Wa. area. The train route goes through areas you can't see from the highways. I remember the two scariest places on the trip was going through Oakland, CA and Portland, Or. Might be better now, or worse.
Re: California Rough Highways Reply #13 – November 13, 2018, 10:14:55 am Larry, the worst large area we have seen is around Selma. Third world. Shacks with blue tarps on the roadside. Illegal hookups to power. Abandoned cars. Trash is thrown in ROW. It's sad to us to see the high taxes in CA and the dismal results. The most scenic state is headed south fast. 2 Likes
Re: California Rough Highways Reply #14 – November 13, 2018, 11:29:06 am Quotethe worst large area we have seen is around Selma.I couldn't place Selma so I had to Google it. It's on SR-99, enough said. Why I missed it is on topic. Coming down the from the Tehachapis, I'll take 58 over to I-5 just to avoid 99.More details on Selma, CA. Check the home listings 750K-1M.Joel
Re: California Rough Highways Reply #15 – November 13, 2018, 11:41:43 am Quote from: joel wiley - November 13, 2018, 11:29:06 amI couldn't place Selma so I had to Google it. It's on SR-99, enough said. Why I missed it is on topic. Coming down the from the Tehachapis, I'll take 58 over to I-5 just to avoid 99.More details on Selma, CA. Check the home listings 750K-1M.JoelI drive past Selma occasionally to visit my Mom in Folsom. Not sure where you're seeing million dollar homes unless they are the wealthy farmers. We are heading that way for Thanksgiving so I'll keep an extra lookout for them:Selma, California (CA 93662) profile: population, maps, real estate,...
Re: California Rough Highways Reply #16 – November 13, 2018, 01:38:36 pm Infrastructure problems tend to be symptomatic of either thriving or poor economies. A poor, depressive economy is obvious, but a growing, thriving economy provides a bit more of a paradox.One the one hand, the obvious casual factors such as growth characteristics, capacity limits, funding allocations, etc all contribute to constant 'catch-up' situations. But what isn't at first clear with respect to corruption makes more sense if you puzzle it out.If you look at traditionally fast paced, go-go economies, such as the Bay area, Los Angeles, New York city, London et al is that they all share a basic characteristic: everyone who is involved in the primary economic base is (trying to get) rich. However, that means a lot of others who work in traditional public/commercial service & support sectors develop a sense of envy since their wages are tied to older labor agreements. The solution from their perspective, of course, is corruption: insider, sweat heart deals, kick-backs, brides, substituting poor quality materials, or just simply not putting in a full days worth of work.The reason it's allowed/ignored is two-fold: a thriving, dynamic economy tends to attract a lot of transient professionals all intent on making it big who have no/little interest/time for public activism. As for those who have already scored, they don't have the time/inclination/interest to waste their time on middling things like public policy, infrastructure or otherwise. (Unless, it politics/power becomes a hobby.) After all, no long TSA lines for them when they can simply drive to Moffett and jump on their own private jet.I've traveled pretty extensively all over the world, and the observations above tend to be fairly consistent. There are outliers, of course, such as Japan & Singapore, but those kinds of exceptions rather prove the rule.One other comment is that mid-line economies, such as Germany, combined with a bit different orientation, create different kinds of problems. The key thing about the autobahns is they are almost uniformly built out like race tracks: essentially perfect in every way, but limited to the number of lanes since the corridors are literally fixed. So what they get is massive, miles long back-up in what is really the countryside between urban areas. (Forget the cities, that's an obvious traffic impact situation.)Hoever, if you get on them early the am, you can do the traditional 100-120 mph (or higher) routine. (I was just there for a week last month with an A4 driving a loop from Munich - Vienna - Prague - Munich.) I love to drive, and I remind my wife that some number of driving enthusiasts save their money & schedule time-off *just to drive* the Euro auto routes with high powered cars capable of speeds in excess of 150mph.Anyway, that's my take on the situation. We just got back yesterday from NYC, and it always strikes me how they simply cannot keep up with the population growth and construction. Like LA, London and San Jose, it's really a hopeless cause. You just have to grin and look at the bright side (ie if you own a home in Calif, you know what I mean). 1 Likes
Re: California Rough Highways Reply #17 – November 13, 2018, 02:02:05 pm QuoteNot sure where you're seeing million dollar homes unlessTrick Question. If you check for listings in that bracket - the number is zero (0).
Re: California Rough Highways Reply #18 – November 13, 2018, 05:59:03 pm Quote from: HiLola - November 13, 2018, 10:05:06 amTo slightly change the subject, if you really want to get close up with trash and the homeless issue, try riding Amtrack. We took the train several years back from Paso Robles to the Tacoma, Wa. area. The train route goes through areas you can't see from the highways. I remember the two scariest places on the trip was going through Oakland, CA and Portland, Or. Might be better now, or worse.On the homeless issue I rode the bike path north of Redding CA up the river and it was full of homeless camps. I wouldn't ride it alone if I was a woman
Re: California Rough Highways Reply #19 – November 13, 2018, 10:34:45 pm A misconception about the gas tax revenue is it's now locked up away from the state spenders. Prop 69 in June 2018 fixed it permanently."As of June 2018, the state constitution prohibited the legislature from using gasoline excise tax revenue or diesel excise tax revenue for general non-transportation purposes."
Re: California Rough Highways Reply #20 – November 14, 2018, 08:35:53 am Quote from: rbkarrow - November 13, 2018, 10:34:45 pmA misconception about the gas tax revenue is it's now locked up away from the state spenders. Prop 69 in June 2018 fixed it permanently."As of June 2018, the state constitution prohibited the legislature from using gasoline excise tax revenue or diesel excise tax revenue for general non-transportation purposes."Seems like that would add lots of revenue for roads and they wouldn't need new taxes unless it's not retroactive and only is applicable to new gas taxes.
Re: California Rough Highways Reply #21 – November 14, 2018, 10:26:15 am I'll have to speak speak up for Idaho roads - they're pretty good over all. The freeways are keep clean, in some areas, by low risk prisoners serving short terms in jail. Some secondary road areas are kept clean by volunteer groups. These same volunteer groups also take sections of the "green belt" and river area in town. I assume other states have their reasons for not using volunteers. Homelessness, while a problem, is not too obvious - yet. Idaho is being "discovered" however, and the problems the more populated states have will soon be here. Frank 1 Likes
Re: California Rough Highways Reply #22 – November 14, 2018, 10:27:05 am Quote from: rbkarrow - November 13, 2018, 10:34:45 pmA misconception about the gas tax revenue is it's now locked up away from the state spenders. Prop 69 in June 2018 fixed it permanently."As of June 2018, the state constitution prohibited the legislature from using gasoline excise tax revenue or diesel excise tax revenue for general non-transportation purposes."<smile> don't want to toss gas on the fire but I live in a state that has had that requirement forever. Trust me when I say you'd be amazed at what transportation purposes can cover ...... just saying. Here in Portland our gas tax was used to built a built across a river that only the light rail and bicyclists can use -- no cars or trucks are allowed on it. 1 Likes
Re: California Rough Highways Reply #23 – November 14, 2018, 10:48:57 am Quote from: kool83704 - November 14, 2018, 10:26:15 amI'll have to speak speak up for Idaho roads - they're pretty good over all. The freeways are keep clean, in some areas, by low risk prisoners serving short terms in jail. Some secondary road areas are kept clean by volunteer groups. These same volunteer groups also take sections of the "green belt" and river area in town. I assume other states have their reasons for not using volunteers. Homelessness, while a problem, is not too obvious - yet. Idaho is being "discovered" however, and the problems the more populated states have will soon be here. FrankI spent 35 years in Idaho before I retired next door in NE Washington and I have to agree the roads are good and I liked seeing the jail buses parked along the highway with prisoners in Orange clothes picking up trash. I asked my brother in California why they don't do that and he just laughed and said yeah right, like that's gonna happen here.
Re: California Rough Highways Reply #24 – November 14, 2018, 10:50:27 am Quote from: colddog - November 14, 2018, 10:27:05 am<smile> don't want to toss gas on the fire but I live in a state that has had that requirement forever. Trust me when I say you'd be amazed at what transportation purposes can cover ...... just saying. Here in Portland our gas tax was used to built a built across a river that only the light rail and bicyclists can use -- no cars or trucks are allowed on it. Depends what the meaning of "is"is. 1 Likes
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