RV wont start -Fuel Pump? November 05, 2018, 08:32:36 am So Here is my problem, I pulled out Tilly from the garage for winterizing, All went well with that except she wouldn't start to go back into the garage. She's a 2000 26 1/2 ft Teal RB. (Teal, Tilly get it, OK, moving on) I left her empty on gas from the last trip to Salt Lake City in July. She ran flawlessly, expecting nothing less from the old gal, I never have had a problem with her EVER. Unless you count the blow out on the inside dully (that was fun) on the trip to SLC, ended up buying 7 new tires. Well worth the price for piece of mind. Anyway I'm at a loss as to why she won't start ,she turns over and cranks really strong. My husband doesn't have a clue, He's old school, if it's not a 6 cylinder '73 pick up he's lost with the new technology, come on it's 18 years old, is that new? So he wrestles the air cleaner off shoots some ether in the carburetor and it starts right up, then shuts down right away. We did that 3 or 4 time and same thing every time. I might add every spring when I get her out of hibernation she starts right up without a hiccup, without fail. Any ideas suggestion or tips, oh I forgot to mention we added 7 gals of gas just to make sure she wasn't completely out.Thanks MarilynPS. I never post, but I have been here lurking off and on for years. I know you all are the best at figuring things out.
Re: RV won"t start Reply #1 – November 05, 2018, 11:33:29 am Hello and welcome it sounds like your fuel pump is bad and its located in the gas tank . Jody
Re: RV won"t start Reply #2 – November 05, 2018, 11:52:30 am Suspect fuel pump. You can try banging a rubber mallet on the fuel tank:Blog Post | Whack It With a Hammer! | Car TalkAlternatively, you can use the ether trick to keep it running for long enough to get her back in the garage.If it is the fuel pump, be thankful that it stopped where and when it did - you have the whole winter to worry about replacing it. Rich'03 MB in NC
Re: RV won"t start Reply #3 – November 05, 2018, 12:04:32 pm Hi Marilyn; Assuming that your Motorhome is level enough for that 7 gallons you added to actually get to the fuel pump, then it's starting to sound like it needs replacing.(the fuel pump). I had a similar problem last year with a 2001 MidBath in my driveway, but a squirt of ether got it started. It ran well for seven months and 12,000 miles before the 'crank angle sensor' went bad. (wouldn't start but cranked over). The fuel pump wasn't replaced then, and it is still running well now. So it could still something cheaper and easier than the pump. Let us know what it turns out to be. RonB
Re: RV won"t start Reply #4 – November 05, 2018, 01:17:31 pm The fact that it will run with a shop of starting fuel shows the engine's ignition is working .If you ran it out of fuel, it will take a bit of cranking to flush the air out of the fuel line.You can avoid the excessive cranking by turning the ignition on for a few seconds and then off, repeating this several times.When the ignition is first turned on, the fuel pump runs for a few seconds and then turns off until the engine catches and fires.Repeating this action helps prime the fuel line, without overheating the starter.This trick also works on fuel pumps that have failing check valves and take a long time to normally start, due to the loss of fuel pressure when the engine isn't running..Old fuel pumps can seize when sitting for long periods, unfortunately the old trick of tapping the fuel pump the few times, with a rubber hammer, doesn't usually work since you cannot get near the fuel pump, with the fuel tank installed .To test the pump, a mechanic will use a pressure gauge, hooked to the fuel rail test port, on the engine.I carry a fuel pressure test gauge, a wireless ignition spark indicator and a noid light (to test for fuel injector firing), for roadside analysis.Fuel Injection Pump TesterAmazon.com: Calterm 66331 Tru-Spark Ignition Firing LED Indicator, Adjustable...Amazon.com: Performance Tool W89501 10-Piece Noid and IAC Light Set: AutomotiveHave a field mechanic test for fuel pressure or buy your hubby a fuel pressure gauge and have him do it himself, helping bring him into the modern times. The engine bay may look impregnable but inside is an old-school engine with a simple fuel injection system.You may get lucky have a pump that comes back to life, if so, its temporally and it should be changed ASAP. It will eventually totally fail, usually at the worse possible time.The E450 sufferers from fuel pump failures, usually around a 100,000 miles but it can happened much sooner or later.It may be the age of the pump is as important as its mileage.Many us have changed the fuel pump proactively, due to this known problem. It can be hard to find a mechanic willing to change the pump since it requires draining and dropping the very large and heavy fuel tank, something many shops are not set up to do safely . Better to do this when home and not on the road.Keep us posted.Larry As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: RV won"t start Reply #5 – November 05, 2018, 01:27:27 pm Well thanks everyone, my husband was thinking it might be the fuel pump and was afraid it was in the tank, (just great)!!He also wanted to know where the fuel filter is? Larry, that might be a good Christmas present, I never know what to get him, he has every tool known to man. He might even have this one. I’ll check.Thanks Marilyn
Re: RV won"t start Reply #6 – November 05, 2018, 01:51:05 pm Quote from: M Diaz - November 05, 2018, 01:27:27 pmWell thanks everyone, my husband was thinking it might be the fuel pump and was afraid it was in the tank, (just great)!!He also wanted to know where the fuel filter is? The fuel filter is mounted on the LDs frame, driver's side, a few feet in back the cab.It is replaced at 30,000 miles intervals and require a releases tool to replace.Amazon.com: Lisle 39400 Angled Disconnect Tool Set: AutomotiveThe fuel pump also has its own filter that is part of the pump and is not serviceable .If you change the pump, install an entire assembly, not just the pump. Stick with preferably Motorcraft or a Bosch fuel pump, stay away from Airtex.Larry As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: RV won"t start Reply #7 – November 05, 2018, 03:21:30 pm Thanks for the great information, lots of work ahead,Very much appreciated,Marilyn
Re: RV won"t start Reply #8 – November 28, 2018, 04:36:05 pm getting ready to drop the fuel tank to change the fuel pump. My husband would like to know how to go about it. Any hints or advice?
Re: RV won"t start Reply #9 – November 28, 2018, 07:32:48 pm Quote from: M Diaz - November 28, 2018, 04:36:05 pmgetting ready to drop the fuel tank to change the fuel pump. My husband would like to know how to go about it. Any hints or advice?Acquire a set of workshop manuals for your model year and follow the instructions in the fuel tank and fuel pump removal sections.Dan
Re: RV won"t start Reply #10 – November 28, 2018, 08:12:52 pm Quote from: dsandsaz - November 28, 2018, 07:32:48 pmAcquire a set of workshop manuals for your model year and follow the instructions in the fuel tank and fuel pump removal sections.Manuals are probably a good idea. When I dropped ours about 5 years ago, I had the Ford Factory Service Manual on a CD. I can't remember if I had to use it, but it could be very helpful. On our 2002, the fuel tank had a drain plug which allowed me to pretty much completely empty the tank. If there is much fuel left in the tank, you will likely need some kind of jack to manage the weight. Depending on your rig, Larry Wade has been able to use long threaded rod stock with nuts and washers in place of the bolts on one side. Loosening the nuts on the other side and then backing the nuts down the threaded rods he has been able to lower the tank enough to access the top, remove the lines and change the pump. Whatever you do. this is also a great chance to replace the line to the generator which is known to crack and leak air, causing generator problems.Art
Re: RV won"t start Reply #11 – November 28, 2018, 09:17:42 pm Fuel Pump Replacement and Dropping Fuel TankFuel pump replacement | Flickr
Re: RV won"t start Reply #12 – November 28, 2018, 10:27:38 pm Quote from: M Diaz - November 05, 2018, 03:21:30 pmThanks for the great information, lots of work ahead,Very much appreciated,Marilyn Marilyn, please let us know your results.Chris
Re: RV wont start -Fuel Pump? Reply #13 – November 29, 2018, 11:00:30 am Oh my gosh, you folks are amazing!! My husband will be tackling this task very soon and I'm sure the advise in the posts will be invaluable. The weather has been very cool for working outside but he should get it done before the first snow fall. (hopefully) She needs to get inside soon, she has never spent a winter outside. Thanks very much, I'll report back with the results.
Re: RV wont start -Fuel Pump? Reply #14 – November 29, 2018, 11:20:12 am Hi, Marilyn! Be sure to get an OEM fuel pump replacement or go with Larry's recommendation of a Bosch fuel pump. The work of dropping the gas tank and replacing the pump definitely merits a high-quality replacement; a quality pump is a few bucks more, but I can't think that one would want a do-over on this job due to potential failure of a low-quality pump. 1 Likes
Re: RV wont start -Fuel Pump? Reply #15 – November 29, 2018, 04:41:46 pm Thanks Joan, we are going with Larry's recommendation of a Bosch, and while he's there I'll have him check all lines and fittings for wear and tear including the generator lines, and of course replace inline filter. It will be nice to get her back in the garage. Thanks again
Re: RV wont start -Fuel Pump? Reply #16 – November 29, 2018, 04:59:15 pm M Diaz,My method for lifting and lowering the fuel tank is pair of cargo straps. This is especially useful if the rig is parked on dirt or grass. You will likely have to put the rear wheel on 4 inches of block to clear the tank under the bumper. 1 Likes
Re: RV wont start -Fuel Pump? Reply #17 – November 30, 2018, 12:07:49 pm Marilyn; before you start taking everything apart, try some starting fluid, sprayed into the intake. I had a 'cranks but no-start' situation in spring 2013 at the Live Oak caravan club meeting. Had to be towed to Ventura on the Monday, and all Ford did was spray a few squirts of starting fluid. Started OK after that. They gave me the partial can, for only about $250. A year and a half later, 'no-start' again. Took a lot of electrical apart to check voltages to the fuel pump, wife said "what about that expensive can of starter fluid". It worked again! That was four years ago, I carry 3 cans with me now. A friend with a 2001 had the same problem, but it turned out to be a 'crank angle sensor', which he had changed out at a truck repair place for about $200. His insurance paid for his towing. He has about 85k miles, and still the same fuel pump. RonB
Re: RV wont start -Fuel Pump? Reply #18 – November 30, 2018, 12:55:39 pm Quote from: RonB - November 30, 2018, 12:07:49 pm Marilyn; before you start taking everything apart, try some starting fluid, sprayed into the intake. I had a 'cranks but no-start' situation in spring 2013 at the Live Oak caravan club meeting. Had to be towed to Ventura on the Monday, and all Ford did was spray a few squirts of starting fluid. Started OK after that. They gave me the partial can, for only about $250. A year and a half later, 'no-start' again. Took a lot of electrical apart to check voltages to the fuel pump, wife said "what about that expensive can of starter fluid". It worked again! That was four years ago, I carry 3 cans with me now. A friend with a 2001 had the same problem, but it turned out to be a 'crank angle sensor', which he had changed out at a truck repair place for about $200. His insurance paid for his towing. He has about 85k miles, and still the same fuel pump. RonBRon, how do you actually do that? Do you have to remove the air breather/filter?Jim
Re: RV wont start -Fuel Pump? Reply #19 – November 30, 2018, 08:02:26 pm If it doesn't start the engine, there's always this ...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPfYkUWVuHQSteve
Re: RV wont start -Fuel Pump? Reply #20 – November 30, 2018, 08:55:43 pm Hi Steve; As far as that You-Tube video, if you are old enough to remember two part rims, there is a reason they are illegal now. And for any remaining ether inside the tire, it could give you a whole (hole) new meaning for 'blow out'. You just have to pull the snorkel input to the air cleaner out of the slot above the radiator, and rotate it as if you were going to remove the air cleaner. Just an inch up. The first time I had to start it (years after Ford did it) I just squirted some into the air cleaner and my wife started it right up. Last year my friends 2001 MB wouldn't start in my driveway, and it was a little more sensitive, timing wise, I think I had too much ether in the air cleaner housing, so I let it sit a few seconds and waited until the engine was turning to spray more. Again; started right up. I think there is something else unrelated to the pump happening, but I'm not inclined to experiment with it. I'm about ready to buy a spare pump (Bosch) and have it ready in a box to have a friend overnight it to me, wherever I might be, if needed. Just to save time if I'm somewhere that would have difficulty getting one. Or If I'm lucky here in my driveway. I've only got 48K miles on the odo. RonB 1 Likes
Re: RV wont start -Fuel Pump? Reply #21 – December 04, 2018, 03:25:09 am Missed commenting on this earlier .I changed our LD's fuel pump in the summer of 2017 using a combination of ratchet straps and a transmission jack. Luckily, the 2003's fuel tank has a drain plug, a feature that was discontinued a few years later. Getting as much fuel out as possible will make the job easier and safer. Just a couple gallons of fuel, sloshing back and forth, can cause the tank to move uncontrollably.The tank has three metal straps that hold the tank in place. I use 6" long pieces of all-thread, to replace four of the strap's securing bolts, this allow the tank to drop and rise up in the correct position. Watch your fingers!The tank is a lot heavier than it looks, the transmission jack was use to initially drop the tank down and then, using the straps, it was lowered onto several sheets of cardboard. This made it a lot easier to the tank slide out from under the rig.I wanted to use furniture dollys under the tank but could not raise the rear of the LD high enough to allow this, so cardboard had to do. Find a willing helper for this project.While replacing the pump, change the generator's and evaporative emission's rubber lines and hose clamps. All the rubber lines on our LD's tank were badly rotted. Once the filler hose has been removed, inspect it for deterioration, on an older rig, it can rotted too.I suggest using a genuine Ford or a Bosch assembly, avoid Airtex like the plague. Buy the entire pump assembly if possible. While it is cheaper to just replace the pump and filter sock, it is lot of work to have the fuel level sender go bad a year later. Some have reported here the inability to get the whole assembly and have had to replace the pump only.Be safe, this is an advanced shade tree mechanic's job, there are a lot of way to get hurt.Larry
Re: RV wont start -Fuel Pump? Reply #22 – December 04, 2018, 10:21:34 am Quote from: Larry W - December 04, 2018, 03:25:09 amMissed commenting on this earlier .I changed our LD's fuel pump in the summer of 2017 using a combination of ratchet straps and a transmission jack. Luckily, the 2003's fuel tank has a drain plug, a feature LarryGood info and nice to know. I assume my 97 has that too.
Re: RV wont start -Fuel Pump? Reply #23 – December 04, 2018, 11:42:40 am [quote]I wanted to use furniture dollys under the tank but could not raise the rear of the LD high enough to allow this, so cardboard had to do.[/quote]Larry, how about a piece of 1/4" plywood and some 1/2" Sch 40 irrigation pipe for rollers. It worked on the pyramids Joel
Re: RV wont start -Fuel Pump? Reply #24 – December 04, 2018, 11:59:09 am Quote from: joel wiley - December 04, 2018, 11:42:40 am how about a piece of 1/4" plywood and some 1/2" Sch 40 irrigation pipe for rollers. It worked on the pyramids The fit was so tight that raising it an additional 3/4" would have hung the tank up, the clearance was so small that the tank scraped the bottom of the rig on the way outThe LD's rear was supported by two 6-ton jack stands, sitting on top of squares of 3/4" plywood .Larry 1 Likes
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