Solar upgrade for new LD November 04, 2018, 04:40:23 pm Hi All,I'm going to be ordering a new LD next year. When I get it, I want to add as much solar as will fit, so about 500 watts, I think. My question for those with newer rigs: are any of the solar setup parts usable for higher wattage? Or will I just have to remove and replace the charge controller, inverter, wiring, etc. I know I will need more battery capacity, that's a given.Would this change if I ordered a second solar panel from the factory? At $850 for the second 100w from LD, there ought to be some upgrades to the other parts. A 100w panel only costs about $125 retail.So what would you do?
Re: Solar upgrade for new LD Reply #1 – November 04, 2018, 05:09:26 pm Linda, what I did was I ordered my MB with NO solar, then drove up to Springfield, OR, and had AM Solar design and install my system - 6 AGM batteries, 5 panels and a whole house inverter. Doing it this way gives AM Solar the maximum ability to efficiently locate stuff. As to being able to use factory components, I expect the wiring for one panel or two panels would not be heavy enough to handle 5 panels. If you are going with 6v batteries, you need an even number, so that would be 4 or 6. There is no room for that many outside the coach, so to put a battery bank inside, they would have to be AGM's. I don't know the details about the factory's solar controller, but some controllers cannot handle the most efficient and safe charging protocols for AGM batteries. You might need a new solar controller.As to an inverter, when I bought mine in '08, the factory did not offer an inverter as an option. Mine came from AM Solar.Bottom line, if you are planning to have a lot of solar and battery, I recommend getting as little as possible from the factory and have AM Solar do the entire thing.Ken F in NM 2 Likes
Re: Solar upgrade for new LD Reply #2 – November 04, 2018, 05:16:37 pm To help people give you answers - What model LD are you ordering?Is there some reason you are ordering 100w panels vs higher wattage ones?I would suggest doing some research on solar including in: -- parallel vs serial or some combination -- shadow effectsnon solar panels and considering what else is/will be on your roof - sattalite, air conditioning or anything else that can cast a shadow - and where you will be using your RV (shadows from nature like trees).Ask the factory what that extra cost is for - controllers go up in cost for larger wattage. I would want to know the exact components (brands models) I would get for each choice.Do some reading in the forums about designing solar - a lot of good info there.Some choices is it better to have LD inetall things and some it is better to get it installed after you get your LD. Either way check that they have the roof strong enough for solar (I remember some posts about this but I don't know what they are doing standard now).JaneSent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
Re: Solar upgrade for new LD Reply #3 – November 04, 2018, 05:38:04 pm I agree completely with Ken’s advice. An alternative to AM Solar in Springfield, OR, is Quality RV Solar (www.qualityrvsolar.com) in Fremont, CA. With either/both, you’ll get a custom-designed system with state-of-the-art, well-matched components, “thoughtful” panel placements, and high quality workmanship. YMMV, of course, but I’d get the best from the get-go. 1 Likes
Re: Solar upgrade for new LD Reply #4 – November 04, 2018, 10:56:35 pm Linda,welcome to LDO, you've come to the right place for opinions. As Joan says, YMMV.My experience only: I thought I'd ordered 2 panels when placing the order in Oct, 2013 but when I looked back, it was only one. That worked fine for mainly staying with hookups. Boondocking at Quarzite demonstrated that was inadequate. Quality Solar will be putting in 3 180W panels sometime next month. I might have been satisfied with 200, but will never know. Your location is a couple time zones from AM or Quality Solar. You might consider scheduling with AM Solar (Dan at Quality is waaay backed up) as part of your pickup/shakedown cruise. You might also look for a good solar installer closer to Detroit than Oregon.How do you plan to use your LD? It sounds like you're going to be 'off the grid' much of the time.That's just my perspective.Joel
Re: Solar upgrade for new LD Reply #5 – November 05, 2018, 12:01:12 am [quote author=joel wiley date=1541390195 link You might consider scheduling with AM Solar (Dan at Quality is waaay backed up) as part of your pickup/shakedown cruise. You might also look for a good solar installer closer to Detroit than Oregon.How do you plan to use your LD? It sounds like you're going to be 'off the grid' much of the time.[/quote]AM Solar sells solar kits for DIYers or installation in the shop of your choice.The kits come with matched components, to eliminate the guessing.RV Solar Panel Kits & Camping Solar Panels, Batteries & Chargers: AMHow To Buy Solar For RV'sIf you want more than 400-watts, the Factory wiring and solar controller, currently installed, will be too small for efficiency and would need upgrading. Delete the solar and have the solar and two extra batteries installed after delivery.Since your delivery date is so far off, make a reservation at AM Solar and have the solar installed on the way home.AM Solar not the cheapest but they do things right.Larry 3 Likes
Re: Solar upgrade for new LD Reply #6 – November 05, 2018, 11:57:10 am One caution - make sure your installer is good.Example: While AM solar looks for knowledgeable experienced installers, you need to bet the actual installer and not just assume if they install for AM Solar they are good.I met someone who had bad feelings about AM Solar as his AM Solar installer started the job on their rig (non LD) and walked out partway through the job unable to figure out how to do the install.JaneSent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
Re: Solar upgrade for new LD Reply #7 – November 05, 2018, 12:42:49 pm "I met someone who had bad feelings about AM Solar as his AM Solar installer started the job on their rig (non LD) and walked out partway through the job unable to figure out how to do the install."-----Mistakes and mis-communications do happen, of course, but this report surprises me because it's contrary to my experience with the company for the past 15 years. Granted, I have dealt only with the Springfield location and not with "satellite" installers, but because I'm familiar with the level of skill and expertise of one particular installer (Quality RV Solar) and know that AM prides itself on high quality work and customer satisfaction, listing an installer who "walked out partway through a job, unable to figure out how to do the install" seems very much out of character for the company. I certainly agree that vetting the installer and making sure that everyone is on the same page are critical to having a job done right, but I suspect that there may be more to the above story. At the least, if the customer was unhappy with the installer, I hope they were able to resolve the issues with the installer and AM Solar. 2 Likes
Re: Solar upgrade for new LD Reply #8 – November 05, 2018, 01:11:22 pm Quote from: JandS2 - November 05, 2018, 11:57:10 amI met someone who had bad feelings about AM Solar as his AM Solar installer started the job on their rig (non LD) and walked out partway through the job unable to figure out how to do the install.Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhoneAdditional caution - even if you trust the source, it represents only one - biassed - side of the story. For instance, did the customer have specific non-negotiable installation requests that the installer felt would cause problems down the line or were otherwise impractical? Unfortunately, without knowing the specifics, the information provided is useless.Steve
Re: Solar upgrade for new LD Reply #9 – November 05, 2018, 01:42:59 pm Quote from: Joan - November 05, 2018, 12:42:49 pmI have dealt only with the Springfield location and not with "satellite" installers, but because I'm familiar with the level of skill and expertise of one particular installer (Quality RV Solar) and know that AM prides itself on high quality work and customer satisfaction, listing an installer who "walked out partway through a job, unable to figure out how to do the install" seems very much out of character for the company. Having installed quite a few solar panels systems, the method I, and experienced installers, do is too totally plan the project before pulling the tools out. Where to run wires and to mount the equipment must be figured out before starting.If they're are potential problems r compromises, this is the time to discuss them with the owner.AM Solar has done thousands of installation and is know for their expertise, I sure there are dissatisfied customers but I have never met one. Larry
Re: Solar upgrade for new LD Reply #10 – November 05, 2018, 07:47:53 pm The dissatisfied customer did use an installer somewhere in the eastern half of the states. In talking to the customer Ithink his only request was put in the solar from am solar. I got the impression it was a where to run the wires issue or the installer was just over his head. It was not in the last few years.I did check with A.M. solar after my conversation with the customer to see what their requirements were for installers and they wanted proof the person had experience and knew what they were doing - maybe a response to some bad apples that happened years earlier.Just saying always check out all parties involved. Some great recommendations were given here.JaneSent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
Re: Solar upgrade for new LD Reply #11 – November 05, 2018, 09:52:04 pm Quote from: Larry W - November 05, 2018, 12:01:12 am[quote author=joel wiley date=1541390195 link You might consider scheduling with AM Solar (Dan at Quality is waaay backed up) as part of your pickup/shakedown cruise. You might also look for a good solar installer closer to Detroit than Oregon.How do you plan to use your LD? It sounds like you're going to be 'off the grid' much of the time.Larry,I want to travel and stay out of "parks" as much as possible. I have an aversion to paying to park when it can be had for no charge at so many places. Probably once every two weeks or so to dump and refill tanks. I 'll be retired by 2020, so maybe some full timing. Still deciding on the retired life.I plan on the Nevada delivery option so I don't have to pay taxes to California. So driving to the bay area for Quality Solar won't be an option on the shakedown cruise. I'll be registering my LD in Michigan. I will get to Oregon, but not before I want to be fully equipped with a solar setup.I was considering Northern Arizona Wind & Solar for a DIY kit and then driving to Austin to have my son help me put it together. He and I are both very DIY type persons. Does anyone have opinions on that company?Someone asked what floor plan I'm getting. I'm still tossing around the midbath, rear bath, or the front dinette. I hope to visit with the NE Lazy Daze group next spring to see them in person.
Re: Solar upgrade for new LD Reply #12 – November 05, 2018, 09:57:49 pm Quote from: Larry W - November 05, 2018, 12:01:12 amIf you want more than 400-watts, the Factory wiring and solar controller, currently installed, will be too small for efficiency and would need upgrading. Delete the solar and have the solar and two extra batteries installed after delivery.This sounds like what I'm probably going to do. That is if they let me delete the standard 100w
Re: Solar upgrade for new LD Reply #13 – November 06, 2018, 12:44:03 am QuoteSomeone asked what floor plan I'm getting. I'm still tossing around the midbath, rear bath, or the front dinette. I hope to visit with the NE Lazy Daze group next spring to see them in person. Excellent plan. Our requirement was the island walk-around bed which narrowed the field to the 31'. Dog ramp was an aftermarket addition.
Re: Solar upgrade for new LD Reply #14 – November 07, 2018, 05:33:20 pm "Is there some reason you are ordering 100w panels vs higher wattage ones?"I can think of one reason: flexibility in placement. Higher-wattage panels are physically large, and it may be more difficult to fit as many watts on the roof as you want. Smaller 100 W panels give you more ability to work around the multitude of vents, antennas, hatches, air conditioner, and so on that clutter an RV's roof.You said you'd like 500 watts. You may want to consider 600 watts (e.g., six Renogy Eclipse panels, the smallest and most efficient 100 W panels I know of) wired as three series-parallel pairs. That will let you use smaller wire coming down from the roof, with less voltage drop. And it'll let your MPPT-type solar charging controller operate at maximum efficiency.Here's what my LD midbath looked like with six panels. You'll note that I removed the TV and satellite-TV antennas to make room. If you don't want to do that, you may only be able to fit 400 watts of panels. You'll want to consider the trade-offs. If you're going to be living in the LD full time, you may find that 400 watts on the roof will get you through most of the year, and in the colder months you can supplement with a couple of portable 100 W panels (preferably the same make and model) on the ground, tilted to face the winter sun.If you're going to be camping in the shady groves typical of eastern campgrounds, ground panels have another benefit: you can put them in a sunny spot even when your rig is shaded by trees. I camp mostly in the southwest, where there's more sun, but I still carry a couple of portable panels to use when the need arises.
Re: Solar upgrade for new LD Reply #15 – November 07, 2018, 07:04:00 pm Andy,That looks like what I plan on doing. I won't have any satellite antenna, but I will have the TV. As you said there is more flexibility with the smaller panels. 100W'ers are pretty easy to come by too.LInda
Re: Solar upgrade for new LD Reply #16 – November 07, 2018, 09:05:48 pm I have a MB with what I think is a simple, reliable, economical system. Unfortunately, it looks nothing like what you can buy from a place like AM solar. Given the big open space up front, I bought a single 200W panel to fill that space and mounted it so that the wires exited the panel right next to the fridge vent. This left me with very few connection, no combiner box, and a pretty short wire run down to the charge controller mounted next to the batteries. The one downside is that the system isn't easily expandable. If I was doing the same today, I would choose a single high voltage panel and a MPPT controller. I think I could get double the solar output of what I have now in the same space, and have something that would be reasonably matched for 4 batteries instead of 2. Why high voltage - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbixDlbscTIThat exact setup might not reach the system size that you're looking for, but I think it's worthwhile to consider higher voltage panels and odd sizes that fit your particular situation. The only reason most RV installers use multiple 100W panels is that they can be adapted to a wide variety of system sizes and shapes. Rich'03 MB in NC
Re: Solar upgrade for new LD Reply #17 – November 08, 2018, 05:08:53 pm Quote from: LindaB - November 05, 2018, 09:52:04 pmSo driving to the bay area for Quality Solar won't be an option on the shakedown cruise. I was considering Northern Arizona Wind & Solar for a DIY kit and then driving to Austin to have my son help me put it together. He and I are both very DIY type persons. Does anyone have opinions on that company?I have ordered parts from them before but have never visited them or had a large order.They have been around for along time, not sure if the ownership has remained the same.If you were to buy a kit from them, stop there on the way home and let them determine the optimum arrangement of panels. Many shops use cardboard cutouts, cut to the size of the various available panels, to lay out the best arrangement of panels.. This something anyone who is planning to install their own system can do. Panel measurements are available online.You could also request a bid from AM Solar, for a kit, to be shipped to your home.I like AM Solar kits because they are very complete kits, with the various calculations already figured out for you, such as wire size and the proper components. The kits even come with labeled tags for the wires.Oh, the downside is the kits are not cheap, you are paying for the engineering work instead of doing it yourself.For best results, somethings are best left to the professionals.Larry 1 Likes
Re: Solar upgrade for new LD Reply #18 – November 09, 2018, 08:30:06 am Hi Linda, You are welcome to come take a look at our "01 Midbath, we are located in Coldwater, MI. We have covered our Sand Castle for the winter but it is still possible to get inside and look around or we usually get antsy and ready to get away for a weekend and uncover our LD sometime in March. tlbh2o
Re: Solar upgrade for new LD Reply #19 – November 09, 2018, 10:28:08 am Several years ago, we were going to pass through Springfield and found they had a sale on panels. I asked them to put on a third one. There was a long pause. I then mentioned who had installed the system. The conversation resumed, "Park in the back, use the shower if you like, we will get to you first thing in the morning". They are skeptical of installations done by folks they don't know. Which reminds me of a guy who wanted to know about our system. I answered his questions and then he told me he installed his from a kit sold in Q. He was quite proud of his system, except it did not charge his batteries all the way, so he was going through batteries every three months. No worries, he was replacing them under the Autozone warranty!The wire size used coming from the panels was 18gauge! and he knew that was correct.There is no free lunch. 1 Likes
Re: Solar upgrade for new LD Reply #20 – November 09, 2018, 10:34:04 am "The wire size used coming from the panels was 18gauge! and he knew that was correct."----I wonder how many people think that the higher the wire gauge, the greater the capacity? I'm pretty much a "volt dolt", and even I know that the opposite is correct, i.e., the lower the gauge number, the higher the capacity! 2 Likes
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