4 speed vs 5 speed October 22, 2018, 06:41:05 am Hi, are the final gear ratios the same for 4 speed and 5 speed transmissions? I’m nearly in the market and I want to understand as much as possible before I jump in. As I understand, could be wrong, the 5 speed was standard in 2006/7? Is that correct? Is there an advantage to the 5 speed over the 4?My learning curve is near vertical and I expect it to continue. Thanks for any advice that can further the acceleration of my learning curve!!JohnChiang Mai, Thailand (retired, but heading back to USA for an extended trip)
Re: 4 speed vs 5 speed Reply #1 – October 22, 2018, 02:13:27 pm "...the 5 speed was standard in 2006/7? Is that correct?"Although it's not common terminology (4 vs. 5 speed) I am presuming what you are referring to is the 'Tow-Haul' feature of the more recent Lazy Daze motorhomes.I placed my order in Feb. of 2004. By June of that year I got a call from Steve Newton asking if I would like to delay my delivery to the next model year when the 'Tow-Haul' feature would be available. I declined that offer and am glad I did. I'm a gear jammer from way back and wouldn't mind a standard tranny if it were available.So to answer your question I'd have to say they first appeared with the 2005 model year!While I have no knowledge of the later transmissions I have read mixed reviews on them.
Re: 4 speed vs 5 speed Reply #2 – October 22, 2018, 02:29:36 pm Quote from: Thedrof - October 22, 2018, 06:41:05 amHi, are the final gear ratios the same for 4 speed and 5 speed transmissions? I’m nearly in the market and I want to understand as much as possible before I jump in. As I understand, could be wrong, the 5 speed was standard in 2006/7? Is that correct? Is there an advantage to the 5 speed over the 4?The 5-speed's 4th and 5th gear are the same as the 4-speed's 3rd and 4th gears.The 4- speed's 1st and second gear are split into three gears, in the five speed.The 5-speed's advantage is better acceleration at low speeds. It also has the Tow/Haul mode, a love it or leave it device.Either one is a fine transmission and will do the job.What both of these transmissions need is a gear between 2nd and 3rd, on the 4-speed or a gear between 3rd and 4th.When towing, there is too great of an RPM drop-off between these gears.The new 6-speed transmission's gearing has the ratios more evenly placed, one of the few good reasons to buy a new LD.Too bad it can't be easily retrofitted to an older LD.Larry 3 Likes
Re: 4 speed vs 5 speed Reply #3 – October 22, 2018, 03:27:21 pm "What both of these transmissions need is a gear between 2nd and 3rd, on the 4-speed or a gear between 3rd and 4th. When towing, there is too great of an RPM drop-off between these gears."---Even when not towing, the 4R100 "spins" and lugs down (can't think of another way to describe it) and the RPMs drop; even with dropping out of overdrive, I still often have to punch the accelerator to get it to downshift, particularly on a hill I'm used to the 4-speed, but there is way too much space between gears. I would like a manual or the 6-speed; Larry, do work on that, OK?
Re: 4 speed vs 5 speed Reply #4 – October 22, 2018, 06:53:44 pm Ford has removed the documents from their Web site that would allow me to confirm what I'll now state... so, take none of it as fact.The five-speed transmission, introduced in 2005, is actually a six-speed. Like a bicycle, it has three gears in one end and two in the other. Ford programmed the transmission to ignore fourth gear on downshifts. This means the transmission goes from fifth to third, the latter usually 4,500 RPM or so, which is a loud annoyance when you go up a moderate grade with cruise control activated.A company (5 Star Tuning) markets a device to alter the transmission and engine tuning parameters to put fourth gear back in the loop. There are many in the Class A community who have the device and like what it does. It is not cheap. I bought the device and found it solves the 5-to-3 downshift, but comes with its own behaviors, that I am trying to understand.On the Tow-Haul feature, I find it drops gas mileage by about 1 MPG when in continuous use. So, I don't use it much, even when towing. I have found Tow-Haul very useful in city traffic, though.There is another forum, of which I am a member, that has ongoing discussions about the Ford drive train. I would give a link here, but I am unsure of the LD owners forum rules. Some fora prohibit referral to "other" fora.Mark H.
Re: 4 speed vs 5 speed Reply #5 – October 23, 2018, 02:03:22 am Thanks all for the explanations, you all have provided catalysts to accelerate my learning curve! I’m not going to be towing so it sounds like the 4 or 5 speed transmission is not a deal breaker. Much appreciated
Re: 4 speed vs 5 speed Reply #6 – October 23, 2018, 02:22:03 am Quote from: l1v3fr33ord13 - October 22, 2018, 06:53:44 pmThe five-speed transmission, introduced in 2005, is actually a six-speed. Like a bicycle, it has three gears in one end and two in the other. Ford programmed the transmission to ignore fourth gear on downshifts. This means the transmission goes from fifth to third, the latter usually 4,500 RPM or so, which is a loud annoyance when you go up a moderate grade with cruise control activated.A company (5 Star Tuning) markets a device to alter the transmission and engine tuning parameters to put fourth gear back in the loop.There is another forum, of which I am a member, that has ongoing discussions about the Ford drive train. I would give a link here, but I am unsure of the LD owners forum rules. Some forums prohibit referral to "other" forumsInteresting, I had not heard of this before.Looking through 5 Star's site, I did not see device that you referred to.Have any links?I did find the following information about 5 Stars tuners for 1998-2015 V-10 motorhomes.Got a 1998-2015 V10 RV? - 5 Star Tuning "On the 3V V10’s, the Ford Strategy is to NOT use all 5 gears in the Torq Shift transmission. Hard to believe I know. In non-tow/haul modes Ford uses only 4 gears when going up through the gearbox. With a custom tune from 5 Star we will use all gears in our shifting and torque converter lock strategies."Our Class Cs have the 2V engines (2 valves per cylinder), not the 3V engines mentioned above.AFAIK, LDs, with 5-speed transmissions, use all 5 gears when in Tow/Haul.Feel free to list links to legitimate RV and travel related sites.Larry
Re: 4 speed vs 5 speed Reply #7 – October 23, 2018, 08:49:15 pm Larry-Ford did us no service when in July they pulled the pre-2014 publications from their "Body Builder Advisory Service" (BBAS) Web site (link here). Because of that, I can't for certain determine if there are differences between the transmissions attached to the 2-valve vs. 3-valve Ford V-10 engines, pre-2014. All signs point to the engines using the same transmissions.The TorqShift transmission, model 5R110W, a.k.a. "Tow/Haul," is discussed briefly at this link:Does Ford reprogram transmission - iRV2 ForumsThe thread includes posts (starting at post #4) by a former Ford transmission engineer (of so he claims). You can't get much closer to the horse's mouth without getting bitten.The 5 Star Tuning device for 1997-2018 Fords with the 6.8-liter V-10 engine is the one at this link:1997-2018 5.4L, 6.2L, 6.7L & 6.8L RV/MOTORHOME! 5 Star Tuning X4 with the 5...The Ford Motorhome Chassis Forum on iRV2.com is at this link:Ford Motorhome Chassis Forum - iRV2 ForumsFor folks interested in some of the ins-and-outs of the Ford chassis, both Class C E-series cutaways and Class A F-53, it's an educational place to hang out. Note: There is a heavy bias towards the F-53 chassis in the thread count.Our 1997-8 mid-bath came with the E40D transmission. I had no cause for complaint, as it hauled us reliably from one side of the U.S. to the other and back. Our current coach, a Class A, came with the 5R110W. I like the five-speed, but can't compare it with the E40D because too much time elapsed between our ownership of the two. I understand the new six-speed is the cat's meow. I'm not going to change up coaches just to get it, though.Mark H. 1 Likes
Re: 4 speed vs 5 speed Reply #8 – October 24, 2018, 01:52:38 am Quote from: l1v3fr33ord13 - October 23, 2018, 08:49:15 pmThe TorqShift transmission, model 5R110W, a.k.a. "Tow/Haul," is discussed briefly at this link:Does Ford reprogram transmission - iRV2 ForumsThe tread includes posts (starting at post #4) by a former Ford transmission engineer (of so he claims). You can't get much closer to the horse's mouth without getting bitten.The 5 Star Tuning device for 1997-2018 Fords with the 6.8-liter V-10 engine is the one at this link:1997-2018 5.4L, 6.2L, 6.7L & 6.8L RV/MOTORHOME! 5 Star Tuning X4 with the 5...The Ford Motorhome Chassis Forum on iRV2.com is at this link:Ford Motorhome Chassis Forum - iRV2 ForumsFor folks interested in some of the ins-and-outs of the Ford chassis, both Class C E-series cutaways and Class A F-53, it's an educational place to hang out. Note: There is a heavy bias towards the F-53 chassis in the thread count.Our 1997-8 mid-bath came with the E40D transmission. I had no cause for complaint, as it hauled us reliably from one side of the U.S. to the other and back. Our current coach, a Class A, came with the 5R110W. I like the five-speed, but can't compare it with the E40D because too much time elapsed between our ownership of the two. I understand the new six-speed is the cat's meow. I'm not going to change up coaches just to get it, though.Reading the links, I learned that the 5R110W transmission does have six gear ratios but two of them are so similar, only one is used. Five or six speeds, the 5R110W still doesn't have evenly spaced gears.The Ford engineer, in the Class A IR2 Forum link, explained why the 'extra' gear isn't normally used, "The rest of the explanation is that the trans is really two transmissions in one case...... Those two ratios are close enough that you would never shift between them, you only use one or the other....It is a five speed. There are six possible ratios, but it never uses more than five."It would be interesting to play with a tuner but I'm not sure I want to pay $500 to experiment. Every 'performance' add-on I have installed though the years has increased my fuel costs, if more power is available, it's going to be used.Larry
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