Service suggestions October 15, 2018, 12:25:58 am I was headed back to north Missouri from Copperas Cove, near Ft. Hood, & the LD began acting strangely. This is the Hill Country of Texas--somewhat reminds me of our terrain in north Missouri in terms of generally moderate climbs that would send the LD shifting up into the 3-4K rpm range as it was pulling harder near the crest, then it would shift back down to a range of slightly under 2K up to around 2500. I generally set the cruise control at 55, and it may drop down to 50 or slightly below as approaches the crest. This is nothing like the mountains approaching the Eisenhower Tunnel, or even the Ozark Mountains of south Missouri.Yesterday afternoon I noticed that the rpms were all over the place--climbing it would jump up into the 3-4k range & then it suddenly cuts out, dropping prcipitously below 4K down to 2k & losing power from 50 mph down to 35 mph; it tries shifting, as though it were climbing, even when I'm on a generally flat open stretch with very little rise; where it would normally downshift to the 2k range after cresting a hill/starting even a gentle descent, it stays at 3k; at times I've been practically standing on the accelerator, the rpms aren't budging past 3K, & I can't get it over 45 mph. Rather than continuing north into the unknown, I've returned to my D-in-L's home as a base of operations 'til this is figured outNO "check engine light" & the dash gauges for oil/heat/battery look normal. I checked the oil: it was just below the minimum line & I added a quart; it was a little dark (I'm due for a change & am about 2K past--that was on the calendar for when I get back to MIssouri, but will likely have it done here, wherever I have this figured out). I also checked the transmission dipstick--not so adept at that, but it looked red on the white tip, to my untrained eyes.My D-in-L has a retired Army friend whose MOS was mechanic. I described all of this to him on the phone yesterday & he had me check the oil & transmission dipsticks (& instructed me to turn on the engine/let it idle for 5 minutes before checking the transmission fluid); this evening he checked what I'd checked & listened to it, but was unable to take it for a drive due to other commitments. When I'd first described this to him over the phone yesterday, he thought the power loss might be related to a bad spark plug, but when he listened to it tonight, he said it doesn't have the bad plug sound. My untrained brain was thinking it might be transmission-related, and without tearing into it, he sort of/kind of concurs.So, Dear Wizards & Wise Ones, I'd appreciate any thoughts on this before I get on the horn in the morning to find someone around here to take this to. I'd like to avoid going into a place looking like a billboard that says "You've just hit the lottery." Also, if anyone has passed through the Ft. Hood/Killeen/Temple area & has any thoughts about service providers, that would be wonderful. Thx, in advance, for all suggestions.Lynne
Re: Service suggestions Reply #1 – October 15, 2018, 02:22:54 am My guess is a failing fuel pump, a common problem.How many miles on your LD?Larry
Re: Service suggestions Reply #2 – October 15, 2018, 09:37:40 am Hi, Larry--She just turned over 71K as I pulled back into Arianna's driveway yesterday afternoon. As you mentioned the fuel pump, I remember a similar situation with a Bonneville 30+ years ago (well, not the shifting problems, but the not being able to get up to speed), & the small-town mechanic determined it was the air filter, so more rabbit holes to chase through. Thx, so much. Now I'm off to search for service people.Lynne
Re: Service suggestions Reply #3 – October 15, 2018, 09:54:23 am Larry's decades of experience are usually spot on for an "on the fly" diagnosis. I don't know, but at the very least, you might want to do the simple stuff first and check the condition of the air filter; it may be full of crud and bugs, or have damage that allows dirt into the intake. Do post when you diagnose the problem; thanks.
Re: Service suggestions Reply #4 – October 15, 2018, 10:11:24 am Some RV folks on another Forum have highly recommended Daniel Moody at 844-278-7767. His business is called Heart of Texas RV Pro. He lives in or near your area and will travel to your location. I’ve kept his name and number in my contacts. In addition you might call some of the Ford dealers in the Killeen area. Some service RVs and are less expensive than RV only shops. In the DFW area the Weatherford Ford does fine RV work which is Ford guaranteed. That guarantee can be very helpful as you travel home. Hope this helps.
Re: Service suggestions Reply #5 – October 15, 2018, 10:27:43 am I had similar problems earlier this summer with my '93 Chevy G30. Turns out it was the ECM (electronic control module). I replaced my original ECM with a re-manufactured part, which fixed the primary idle race/hiccup/transmission shift issues. However, it still had a slight hiccup transitioning from open to closed circuit as the engine warmed up. I swapped it once more (under the 30 day warranty) for yet another re-manned part hoping for the best. This fixed the problem entirely, and the rig has been running great since. 2 Likes
Re: Service suggestions Reply #6 – October 15, 2018, 10:34:31 am I’d be purely guessing, but, the symptoms you have described could point to a plugged fuel filter and/or plugged catalytic converter. Dale from Downey. 1 Likes
Re: Service suggestions Reply #7 – October 15, 2018, 10:39:45 am I agree with Dale I'm thinking it's a clogged catalytic converter. Jody 1 Likes
Re: Service suggestions Reply #8 – October 15, 2018, 11:02:18 am I had the same problem with my 1990 26.5 MB, and sure enough it was the catylitic converter. The cost was $750.00 plus labor about a grand total. The difference was night and day, I went from only going 35 mph on the freeway on ramp to an easy 55 plus. This solved all the miss shifts I was having and now the tranny shifts like it should. Good luck to you.
Re: Service suggestions Reply #9 – October 15, 2018, 12:14:05 pm Bad fuel pump, blown catalytic converter, there are many possible causes and they are all guesses until a mechanic can check the fuel and exhaust pressures. Either one doesn't take long to check with the right tools and experience.Hope it's a bad cat, a much easier item to replace than the fuel pump. Can't say I have ever known anyone to replace a E450's catalytic converter but for a rig in the rust belt, it certainly is a possibility. Larry 1 Likes
Re: Service suggestions Reply #10 – October 16, 2018, 01:23:43 am Thx to all. Went to a tranny guy my D-in-L had used & I want to add Jeff Oliver of Oliver Brothers to the list of recommended servicers. Besides being very knowledgeable, Jeff seems to be a consumer's advocate--said he has taught free classes over the years to women's groups/college students/miscellaneous groups to educate about how to approach mechanical services in an informed manner. Jeff drove it with me, & then put his diagnostic gauge to work. His first thought while driving was what many of you have mentioned: something in the exhaust system & probably the cat, though he also said a random misfire showed. He sent me across the street to a general mechanic, but they weren't really interested (said they didn't have space to work on such a big rig), then Jeff recommended the muffler place next door.The service tech was going to go straight for pulling the doghouse to do a more in-depth diagnostic, but I asked him to drive it with me first, as Jeff had done, to get a feel & hear whatever his ears (way better than mine) might notice--It was even worse than when Jeff had driven it less than an hour before, and Guy #2 observed it seemed to be "starved for oxygen" & said he thought it was the cat. We got back & he had his tech use a diagnostic gauge similar to what Jeff had used. They were all puzzled that there was no O2 sensor after the cat, but the tech got out to check the air flow out of the muffler while someone else worked the accelerator; the tech said there was almost no flow from the muffler & he saw about 10" of heat waves underneath, where he would normally only see about three inches, which he said confirmed the thinking about the cat being bad cat.Joan, you were also spot on about the buggy airfilter. After talking with Jeff Oliver about what the muffler shop said, & with my D-in-L's friend, I felt comfortable authorizing the muffler guys to order the parts.These guys, like the ones across the street from the tranny place, don't have a place to get it inside, and said the cats & dogs rain meant it was not good weather for welding outdoors, but there's supposed to be a bit of a break in the weather Wednesday or Thursday--though still cold, for Texas. They said it was a 4-5 hour job, and wrote up a parts & labor estimate for $1058, though it will be a bit more because they forgot to add the air filter. They thought this would solve the power issue & get me home; I can then address the issue with the plugs with my regular mechanic, in a less stressful state.Ed--Thx for the referral & number for Daniel Moody...that's going in my rolodex (yeah, I;m a dinosaur, & still have one of those.FWIW, my D-in-L's friend lives in Killeen, & had a negative opinion of the Ford dealer there. More news, as the process continues & I learn more. Thx to all for the suggestions & discussion.Lynne 1 Likes
Re: Service suggestions Reply #11 – October 16, 2018, 10:18:07 am Lynne, the Motorcraft air filter for your 2005 ( FA1632) is about $12 from Rock Auto, and about $17 from Amazon; it should be that much more even from the local Ford place, so the cost of the filter should NOT add much to your tab! You might want to look at Rock Auto for listings of replacement air filters other than the OEM Motorcraft; if the shop doesn't use a Motorcraft air filter, do make sure they use a high quality replacement and not some cheap POC. 1 Likes
Re: Service suggestions Reply #12 – October 17, 2018, 01:18:25 am Thx, Joan...I appreciate the reminder to check what they plan to use & your knowledge about cost. I may ask my D-in-L's friend to teach me how to change that out (it certainly looked pretty straightforward when the tech was checking in yesterday.Lynne
Re: Service suggestions Reply #13 – October 19, 2018, 04:47:36 pm Hi, All--Here's the update on the recent defuglilty...I now have a new cat & muffler to the tune of $1074.12, which was about $20 under the estimate. All parties remain bumfuzzled that the Check Engine light never came on & there were no codes relating to the black hole that the cat had become.The tech showed me the difference between old & new cats--besides the obvious discoloration on the heat shield, shining his flashlight through the new one "I saw the light" (as Johnny Cash would say), while the old one was a black hole from which nothing could escape. When the tech took it on the road she definitely has a new lease on life! They recommended Sea Foam at the next fill-up--I'm just over a 1/2 tank & was going to fill before heading north on Monday. Should I do the Sea Foam now (at just over 1/2), or wait 'til my normal point of slightly under 1/4 tank & add the Sea Foam then?They said I was good to go with the work they'd done, but recommended a tune-up when I got back to my regular guy (+ she's due for an oil change). The tech thought things should be checked further (he mentioned determining if it was running lean or rich) to avoid killing the new cat prematurely... When reading the online Tune-up for Dummies it listed normal maintenance like oil change/checking transmission fluid/brakes/etc., and that modern engines with electronic ignition/fuel injection don't need a "tune-up" to the degree older engines did; I didn't find "tune-up" in my Ford manual. As I reviewed my service folder, I found that I did have the #5 plug & coil replaced, & O2 sensor in November 2016 (that was after the return from Ladeze in Idaho, when the Check Engine light had come on, & the tech in Wyoming said the code was related to oxygen & altitude differences).Thx so much to all for the knowledge & wisdom as I learned something new--LDO certainly helps me manage my anxiety about the unknown...and there's so much of that. I know there's been discussion about a central place for searching service recommendations or red flags about places to avoid, but I'm not sure where that is (I'm directionally challenged, even in cyber space ). Anyway, I highly recommend Jeff Oliver/Oliver Brothers transmission (he is here in Copperas Cove, Tx; their website lists some other TX locations). Jeff spent nearly an hour with me...test drive(in which he quickly determined it was likely not a transmission issue)/putting on his diagnostic scanner/talking me through various possibilities--rather like when all the wizards here are helping someone figure out a problem --and would not let me pay him a dime for his time. Also, next door to Jeff in Copperas Cove is Bill's Muffler Shop-Cove, where Hans, the tech who did the work, & Shelly (owner of the business & widow of the eponymous "Bill") also did a great job of educating me...plus they came in under their estimate. Thx, again, to all--Lynne 2 Likes
Re: Service suggestions Reply #14 – October 19, 2018, 11:01:19 pm Quote from: Lynne Broyles-Greenwood - October 19, 2018, 04:47:36 pmHi, All--Here's the update on the recent defuglilty...I now have a new cat & muffler to the tune of $1074.12, which was about $20 under the estimate. All parties remain bumfuzzled that the Check Engine light never came on & there were no codes relating to the black hole that the cat had become.The tech showed me the difference between old & new cats--besides the obvious discoloration on the heat shield, shining his flashlight through the new one "I saw the light" (as Johnny Cash would say), while the old one was a black hole from which nothing could escape. When the tech took it on the road she definitely has a new lease on life! They recommended Sea Foam at the next fill-up--I'm just over a 1/2 tank & was going to fill before heading north on Monday. Should I do the Sea Foam now (at just over 1/2), or wait 'til my normal point of slightly under 1/4 tank & add the Sea Foam then?They said I was good to go with the work they'd done, but recommended a tune-up when I got back to my regular guy (+ she's due for an oil change). The tech thought things should be checked further (he mentioned determining if it was running lean or rich) to avoid killing the new cat prematurely... When reading the online Tune-up for Dummies it listed normal maintenance like oil change/checking transmission fluid/brakes/etc., and that modern engines with electronic ignition/fuel injection don't need a "tune-up" to the degree older engines did; I didn't find "tune-up" in my Ford manual. As I reviewed my service folder, I found that I did have the #5 plug & coil replaced, & O2 sensor in November 2016 (that was after the return from Ladeze in Idaho, when the Check Engine light had come on, & the tech in Wyoming said the code was related to oxygen & altitude differences).Thx so much to all for the knowledge & wisdom as I learned something new--LDO certainly helps me manage my anxiety about the unknown...and there's so much of that. I know there's been discussion about a central place for searching service recommendations or red flags about places to avoid, but I'm not sure where that is (I'm directionally challenged, even in cyber space ). Anyway, I highly recommend Jeff Oliver/Oliver Brothers transmission (he is here in Copperas Cove, Tx; their website lists some other TX locations). Jeff spent nearly an hour with me...test drive(in which he quickly determined it was likely not a transmission issue)/putting on his diagnostic scanner/talking me through various possibilities--rather like when all the wizards here are helping someone figure out a problem --and would not let me pay him a dime for his time. Also, next door to Jeff in Copperas Cove is Bill's Muffler Shop-Cove, where Hans, the tech who did the work, & Shelly (owner of the business & widow of the eponymous "Bill") also did a great job of educating me...plus they came in under their estimate. Thx, again, to all--LynneLynne, it's great you are "good to go". We all appreciate your sharing your fixes. The more of this kind of repair info we have in the archives, the more likely it will be able to help someone in years to come.Chris 1 Likes
Re: Service suggestions Reply #15 – October 23, 2018, 11:42:32 pm Here's a final update on my recent defugilties: --new cat/muffler in Texas made her a happy baby. She purred along quite nicely as we were wending our way northward, & is now ensconced in the driveway.--the flap-flap-flapping noise that I thought was a tread separation on a tire on the passenger rear (but I could see no damage) was discovered to be on the driver rear by the exhaust tech when he was underneath; he also informed me of an impact bubble on the outside passenger duallie. Fortunately, Discount Tire has an outlet in Copperas Cove. They had to order the Michelin LTXs I wanted (to match what I already had), & I had those installed Saturday--Tim/Greg/Chris were excellent to work with. Discount Tire discovered the bad tire was plumb flat, which had caused excessive wear on the inside of the outer duallie next to the bad tire--they thought the hole they found worn in the end of the brass valve extension (which had a rubber tubing sleeve, but no grommet in the wheel cover, like on the other side) may have caused the bad tire to go flat (but it was looooong past its life, with a date code of 2011 )...it appears a TPMS will be an imminent investment. They did not have any other Michelin LTXs (since they'd only ordered the two I thought I needed)...I was just going to have them put the tire with the worn spot back on, thinking I could limp up the road to another Discount Tire & have it swapped out, but Greg said he didn't feel comfortable with that plan, so gave me a Pathfinder. We have a Discount Tire in Liberty, so will get a Michelin on that & use the Pathfinder as a spare (since I have a 2010 as the current spare ). They also, fortunately, did have a braided steel valve extension (unfortunately, only one, so will need to get another for the other inside duallie, as they showed me the other one had wear spots, even though that has a grommet in the wheel cover. I don't know if this is original from the Mothership with the first owners--I don't see anything in my records about anyone getting anything from the late Tireman.--Since I was going to be driving past my regular mechanic at Osborn, MO, I stopped there on the way home. She was due for an oil change, & the exhaust tech who installed the cat/muffler had suggested a tune up when I got home. I told Kevin everything that had transpired, he changed the oil, ran diagnostics, & said he didn't think she needed a tune up. He also checked the air filter--the tech in Texas had said it is not something that is changed, but is "washed"--Kevin was satisfied with the condition of the filter & that it seemed to have been properly cleaned.I've certainly had a number of learning opportunities of late, & I appreciate all the help from the FOLD as IO've navigated this experience--I'm smarter than I was.On a separate note, I spied my first LD in the wild as I came up US 281 through the Hill Country...can't remember what little town. I was pulling up to a 4-way stop & there was a fellow set up selling honey from his LD. John Cameron is full-timing in his LD & managing hives that he has scattered throughout Texas. He said he's pretty much "off the grid" & doesn't follow the LDO discussions, though he was aware of LDO; I've got his card, if any of y'all in Texas want to contact him about where else he sells honey (he mentioned going to festivals, & it sounds like he's travels a circuit). He got his LD after watching it on a dealer's lot in east Texas for a while, but is thinking he might like a bit more room, & looked at mine. His '06 is perhaps a Forward Lounge? He's got the bathroom in the back/barrel chairs/flip up table/sofa like I have, instead of a dinette. Same teal as mine; he named it the Green Hornet & has a decal with that under his sofa window. It was so exciting to see another LD out & about.Well, That's All The News That Isn't, as Michael Feldman used to say. Thx, again, for all the help last week.Lynne 1 Likes
Re: Service suggestions Reply #16 – October 24, 2018, 02:02:31 am Hi Lynne, I'm glad your tire situation is almost under the control. You said ..."flat (but it was looooong past its life, with a date code of 2017 " That isn't an expiration date. That is the year that the tire was made. The two digits in front of that refer to the week of the year, from '01' in January to '52' in late December. A '20' there in front of the 17 would be about May. The real expiration date is somewhere between 4 years and 9 years. Between 5 and 6 years for me. To clarify, the stainless braiding is an attempt to protect the flexible rubber hose inside the extension hose. The Tireman's hose was a solid, non flexible hose, similar to the 'Borg' solid tire valve stems. Kent listed those stems recently, and they are fitted into the wheels, all as one piece out to the dual hubs vicinity. With rubber grommets to keep them centered, they are the most trouble free answer, especially with heavy TPMS senders on the ends. For my front tires, solid valve stems, with 2" bent extensions work well. With TPMS weight hanging on those, rubber grommets might be needed in front also. The Pathfinder tire as a spare would be matched up against a Michelin if put on a dual. Not so good unless they have a really similar circumference. On a front tire it wouldn't be a problem. For distance driving you would want to move a front tire to a dual, and put that Pathfinder tire to the front, by itself. RonB 1 Likes
Re: Service suggestions Reply #17 – October 24, 2018, 08:26:11 am "the tech in Texas had said it is not something that is changed, but is "washed"..."----He is likely referring to a K&N filter; this is a link on cleaning the filter.Cleaning a K&N Air FilterI have cleaned a K&N filter; it is a steppy, time-consuming, messy process. I have also read a lot of "press" re: efficiency and performance of the K&N air filter; a search will bring up plenty of sources from which you can make your own decisions.I will stick with the OEM Motorcraft (or equivalent/better quality) paper filter. YMMV, as always. 1 Likes
Re: Service suggestions Reply #18 – October 24, 2018, 11:31:43 am RE: "...that isn't an expiration date. That is the year that the tire was made."Ron, thx for catching my error (which I've now corrected in the original post) --I learned the date code is the manufacture date at the Escapees Boot Camp...the bad tire was actually a 2011, so 2016 was when it aged out; the Pathfinder is a 5217 (November '17), so I think it can do as a spare (in place of the 2010 I swapped back there) once I get to the Discount Tire in Liberty to get another Michelin LTX. Thx also for the explanation about the rubber tubing inside flexible steel braiding...looks like Borg stems are on the list with the TPMS.Thx, Joan, for the explanation about the air filters. I didn't know the air filter they showed me full of bugs wasn't OEM--I've got the service records from the previous two owners, but keep learning something new every time a defugilty occurs & I scour the paperwork to see what I didn't understand as a newbie that may makes more sense now. An OEM paper filter is also in the future. Santa will come early for LDy Lulubelle this year. Lynne 1 Likes
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