Don't want to winterize October 11, 2018, 12:41:15 am So, I looked in the archives, read my manual. I am leaving Mid November from Oregon Desert country right where OR, NV and CA meet. We have had one night in the mid 20's. enough to put some ice in the garden hose. But most of my flowers are still alive. Warms up during the day. Frosty on car but no ice on puddles. Forecast is for warm days and occasional cool nights hanging around 30. I do live at 5300' so it can dip below 30 but the days are warm and sunny.Question: How much of a risk am I taking if I have my LD plugged in with small heater, water heater on at night and cabinets open? I would even turn my furnace on at 55 degrees? It will be right by my house.Do I have to winterize? Blow lines? Add anti freeze?Also, should I leave my gray water tank valve open?
Re: Don't want to winterize Reply #1 – October 11, 2018, 01:03:47 am If you have it plugged in, the water heater on, and a small heater going, would you feel comfortable in it wearing a sweater? If so, it should be ok. If an icicle develops on your nose, maybe not.You can take a look at the NWS Forcast Maps to see what temp predictions are for the next month.
Re: Don't want to winterize Reply #2 – October 11, 2018, 09:43:03 am Quote from: HalfMile20 - October 11, 2018, 12:41:15 amSo, I looked in the archives, read my manual. I am leaving Mid November from Oregon Desert country right where OR, NV and CA meet. We have had one night in the mid 20's. enough to put some ice in the garden hose. But most of my flowers are still alive. Warms up during the day. Frosty on car but no ice on puddles. Forecast is for warm days and occasional cool nights hanging around 30. I do live at 5300' so it can dip below 30 but the days are warm and sunny.Question: How much of a risk am I taking if I have my LD plugged in with small heater, water heater on at night and cabinets open? I would even turn my furnace on at 55 degrees? It will be right by my house.Do I have to winterize? Blow lines? Add anti freeze?Also, should I leave my gray water tank valve open?If you keep the inside of your LD above freezing by doing what you are doing, you shouldn't have a problem. In my experience a space/cube heater set on low is enough to keep the interior of my 30' above freezing during temps in the 20s. I've never left the furnace on. Turning the water heater on the night before and then shutting it off has worked for me. Cabinets open; toilet/shower room doors open. Please understand this is my experience. YMMVChris 3 Likes
Re: Don't want to winterize Reply #3 – October 11, 2018, 12:06:55 pm Fo those of you with an outside shower, it seems to me that the valves would be the first thing to freeze. Is that an issue, or is there enough heat leaking into it from inside to keep it ok. I assume water in the actual shower head, and hose would drain out. RonB
Re: Don't want to winterize Reply #4 – October 11, 2018, 12:34:37 pm Quote from: RonB - October 11, 2018, 12:06:55 pmFor those of you with an outside shower, it seems to me that the valves would be the first thing to freeze. Is that an issue, or is there enough heat leaking into it from inside to keep it ok. I assume water in the actual shower head, and hose would drain out. RonThat's a good point, I have heard of the shower valves freezing and cracking, when the interior plumbing was warm enough not to freeze. Another reason to learn how to winterize....or to head south for the winter season.Happy to have never winterized in 23 years of LD ownership.Larry 1 Likes
Re: Don't want to winterize Reply #5 – October 11, 2018, 12:55:38 pm The first winter I had my MB, it was in my driveway for a month as I packed it and cleaned out the house to sell it. The last week I was there, we had a prolonged cold snap. It never got above zero, and dropped as low as -20 F. I had the furnace and water heater on. I had the cabinet doors and access panels open. My outside shower faucet might have frozen, but I didn't try to use it, and it never leaked. I had stuffed some rags in the space over and around the outside faucet, which may have helped. My fresh water supply remained fine the entire week. Neither the tank nor any of the lines had ice form. My black tank contents did not freeze, but the run from the black tank to the dump valve did freeze. My grey tank froze solid, and I was in Florida for a week before I stopped hearing ice bouncing around in that tank.Do I recommend that? No. The point is, PEX tubing is very unlikely to be damaged by freezing, and if you keep the interior of your rig livable and keep doors and access panels open, water heater on, the likelihood of having a problem is quite low.Ken F in NM 2 Likes
Re: Don't want to winterize Reply #6 – October 11, 2018, 01:10:03 pm Thank you all for your thoughts. I am going to try to get by without winterizing. I have a steep learning curve and hope to do most of my discovery where its warm-). This unit came with windshield covers as well. The manual mentions hanging a thick blanket or some such from the overhead bunk, separating the "house" from the driver. As mentioned, it can dip into freezing territory but usually we will have highs in the 50's-60 well into mid November. Now all I need is a window of sunny weather to get out of here. Thinking South through Hawthorne will take me around the highest passes. Thanks again. I am so glad I bought a Laze Daze-you all are GREAT!
Re: Don't want to winterize Reply #7 – October 11, 2018, 03:00:50 pm "Thinking South through Hawthorne will take me around the highest passes."Hawthorne seems like the long way around unless you've got a specific destination that far east. If it were me, I'd stick to Hwy 395. 1 Likes
Re: Don't want to winterize Reply #8 – October 11, 2018, 06:39:06 pm Lazy Bones, I usually do follow 395 but around the Mammouth Lakes area and the pass getting into Bishop kinda scare me. I am not sure of the pass name but it must be at least a 6% and its long. As mentioned before the one area of driving I have the least confidence is hill driving. I am not in a big hurry and want a few days driving in the outback to get my RV legs under me-)Also, I was going to share with you(earlier post) that my pops started all us kids driving in a stick shift and we had to master reverse before we got to go forward. And we all had to drive...we were the unpaid help. Evidently there is a show the Amazing Race that eliminates contestants when they can not drive a shift. Do you remember the shifts on the steering column? 2 Likes
Re: Don't want to winterize Reply #9 – October 11, 2018, 08:30:59 pm Quote from: HalfMile20 - October 11, 2018, 06:39:06 pmLazy Bones, I usually do follow 395 but around the Mammouth Lakes area and the pass getting into Bishop kinda scare me. I am not sure of the pass name but it must be at least a 6% and its long. As mentioned before the one area of driving I have the least confidence is hill driving. That’s the Sherwin Grade and it is indeed a doozy. Nonetheless, it is done by dozens of LDs yearly. It also provides what I think is the most spectacular view of the eastern Sierras. I’d go for it! — Jon 3 Likes
Re: Don't want to winterize Reply #10 – October 11, 2018, 10:51:07 pm Is it Sharon? Yes, 395 is a beautiful drive and, yes, depending how far north you enter the Eastern Sierra you will have passes at or above 7,000. One is closer to 8,000 ft. Sherwin Grade out of Bishop is 7,000+ ft dropping down into Bishop at about 3,000 ft. Near the top, around Tom's Place, be sure to watch your speed, gear down, and stay in the right lane. There are a couple of places you can pull off if you need a break. But, more important this time of year is to carefully watch the weather. Hwy 395 can be closed to all traffic at any time without much warning due to snow and or high winds or both. We have already had snow at 8,000 ft.Hwy 95 through Hawthorne and on south is also good road though most of it is single lane (each way) with a few passing lanes. How far south do you plan to go? I ask because you will also have high passes on 95, too, at Tonopah and Goldfield. And, yes, it snows on the desert. Tonopah is at about 6,500 ft and Goldfield is a bit higher. As you plan your route consider how far you plan to drive each day. Finding a stopping point will be more problematic on 95. Give yourself more traveling time due to possible winter weather. Above all else, safety first.Happy trails,Juli WMinden, NV06 26.5 RB 3 Likes
Re: Don't want to winterize Reply #11 – October 11, 2018, 11:56:46 pm "Do you remember the shifts on the steering column?"Give-me-a-break! I'm pushing 83 years young, learned to drive on farm machinery and my Dad's '31 Model 'A' Ford Roadster (rumble seat and all). Do you remember how the Model 'T' was started? Think crank!Sherwin Grade??? Really? I've seen bigger ant hills. 5 Likes
Re: Don't want to winterize Reply #12 – October 12, 2018, 12:50:23 am Quote from: HalfMile20 - October 11, 2018, 06:39:06 pmLazy Bones, I usually do follow 395 but around the Mammouth Lakes area and the pass getting into Bishop kinda scare me. I am not sure of the pass name but it must be at least a 6% and its long. As mentioned before the one area of driving I have the least confidence is hill driving. I am not in a big hurry and want a few days driving in the outback to get my RV legs under me-)You hit Conway Summit (8,138) first, north of Mono Lake. The grade down is ok if you take it slow in the right lane. Views are spectacular. Take your time. By the time you hit Bishop you will be at least intermediate on downhills. At least they are fairly straight and the curves are sweeping. Here's a wiki US 395 travelogue albeit it runs from south to north.There aren't many campgrounds open between Carson City, NV and Bishop, CA. Plan accordingly and watch the weather.A steep learning curve is a good thing- you gain much knowledge in a sort period of time. Sort of like learning to handle grades driving down 395. How far south are you planning to go?Joel 1 Likes
Re: Don't want to winterize Reply #13 – October 12, 2018, 02:49:33 am Question about the water system--if the pump is off & faucets opened/toilet pedal pushed, does that drain the lines back to the pump (like when I turn the water off in the stix & open the faucet in the basement to drain the lines)?Chris--Thx for the info about how you've kept plumbing happy in cold weather (when I came to Denver to see my aunt that time at New Year's I was winterized & just carried water in jugs, & could shower inside her facility). I'm going to my daughter-in law's in Texas every other weekend 'til she graduates in May to help with the grands, & don't want to winterize "Grandma's House" if I can help it. When you wrote about turning on the water heater--do you leave it on all night, or do you just get it up to temp & then turn it off? If I have to, I can blow the lines before I leave Texas each weekend, but looking for ways to reduce that hassle.Ken F--Thx for the idea of stuffing rags around the outside shower. I've only used the thing once to hose of the dog (after she rolled in something green at the farm & was not welcome to return to the inside ).Sharon--Besides blankets between the cab & house, I insulate at night with some egg crate bed toppers I bought at some auctions that I've cut to fit behind the blinds in the windows & a large one behind the cab-separating blankets. I also insulate the roof vents with some super large bubble wrap I found at an auction that I cover with cardboard & seal the edges with packing tape. I also have a foam insert & blanket that rolls down from the valance over the coach door. I don't have a Buddy heater, but the furnace keeps things toasty when boondocking, & a small electric heater does the trick when I plug in. Good luck.Lynne 2 Likes
Re: Don't want to winterize Reply #14 – October 12, 2018, 08:08:57 am I lived in my camper one winter at a campground in Thompson Falls Montana because I was working out there and the commute home was too far on icy roads every day. That place gets really cold and I had no plumbing problems except for the black tank freezing which I solved by giving it a good dose of anti freeze between empties. I later heard that's not recommended because it can damage the plastic tank. For storage though I'd recommend running all your faucets a bit every day in case there's a cold spot somewhere. Just my two cents.
Re: Don't want to winterize Reply #15 – October 12, 2018, 10:49:05 am Quote from: Lynne Broyles-Greenwood - October 12, 2018, 02:49:33 amQuestion about the water system--if the pump is off & faucets opened/toilet pedal pushed, does that drain the lines back to the pump (like when I turn the water off in the stix & open the faucet in the basement to drain the lines)?Chris--Thx for the info about how you've kept plumbing happy in cold weather (when I came to Denver to see my aunt that time at New Year's I was winterized & just carried water in jugs, & could shower inside her facility). I'm going to my daughter-in law's in Texas every other weekend 'til she graduates in May to help with the grands, & don't want to winterize "Grandma's House" if I can help it. When you wrote about turning on the water heater--do you leave it on all night, or do you just get it up to temp & then turn it off? If I have to, I can blow the lines before I leave Texas each weekend, but looking for ways to reduce that hassle.Ken F--Thx for the idea of stuffing rags around the outside shower. I've only used the thing once to hose of the dog (after she rolled in something green at the farm & was not welcome to return to the inside ).Sharon--Besides blankets between the cab & house, I insulate at night with some egg crate bed toppers I bought at some auctions that I've cut to fit behind the blinds in the windows & a large one behind the cab-separating blankets. I also insulate the roof vents with some super large bubble wrap I found at an auction that I cover with cardboard & seal the edges with packing tape. I also have a foam insert & blanket that rolls down from the valance over the coach door. I don't have a Buddy heater, but the furnace keeps things toasty when boondocking, & a small electric heater does the trick when I plug in. Good luck.LynneLynne, in my case I just brought the water heater up to hot and turned it off (20-25 minutes on). This has worked in temps down to the mid 20s. Usually the days were back up to the 30s. In the case of prolonged cold temps, I would winterize and leave it that way. I winterized 2 weeks ago and am glad as we will have temps in the 20s early next week here in Denver. It's gotten cold so early that I may not get my fall polishing done until next spring."Question about the water system--if the pump is off & faucets opened/toilet pedal pushed, does that drain the lines back to the pump (like when I turn the water off in the stix & open the faucet in the basement to drain the lines)?" No. You have to blow the water lines to remove all water or inject antifreeze.Chris 1 Likes
Re: Don't want to winterize Reply #16 – October 12, 2018, 01:14:35 pm Juli W-I think Minden is one of the prettiest spots in Nevada. I have looked on my map and I totally missed the Tonapah and Goldfield summits. 6,270' and 6,021'. Are They better or worse than the 395 route? What I mean is, are they as long, with as much traffic?My route is a cautious one. Boondocking until Hawthorne as I know the area. Hawthorne-Beatty-Shoshone Hot Springs. I was hopeful that there would be little traffic at this time of the year. I AM concerned about the weather. I am not a lucky person-). I am kinda looking forward to Rhyolite, have you been there?
Re: Don't want to winterize Reply #17 – October 12, 2018, 01:37:39 pm Okay, gathering more info on cold weather care. Question: I have two possible outlets, one has a cover that looks GFI(GFCI?) with a reset button, the other just regular plug. Some talk= RV's don't like to be plugged into GFI outlets.The GFI is closer and would not need extension, the other would. Which would you use? I am NOT running anything in the RV except the water heater at night. Oh and the furnace if it gets really cold which I think would use electric for fan. And SPACE HEATER.1500Question 2: Can I set up a Mr. Buddy heater inside with a small propane tank? I thought it might be handy to have on my trip in case I get detained by weather. I also have heard that you can adapt your propane system for a direct hookup to Mr. Buddy. Don't know if I could get that done by D-Day but I could get a unit that is portable. What do you all think? As Always I appreciate your time and hard earned knowledge.Picking up my LD Thursday! YaHoo...also only time to get supply at "real" stores.
Re: Don't want to winterize Reply #18 – October 12, 2018, 06:03:12 pm Halfmile20,Regarding US95 thru Tonopah, it's high, but the grades aren't that significant if I recall correctly. They are much easier than US395. Just the long drives thru the Basin & Range provinces.A problem with the GFI circuit is that it trips at a level below that of the circuit rating. A 20 Amp GFI may trip at 15 amps and may be why people aren't happy with them. It shouldn't be a problem with a small space heater.Stay warm and travel safe.Joel 1 Likes
Re: Don't want to winterize Reply #19 – October 12, 2018, 07:06:05 pm I would go ahead and use a GFI circuit, it”s a safer alternative. Our heater and converter can run at the same time o, a 20-amp GFI circuit.A GFI, in good condition, will provide as much power as a non-GFI circuit, assuming both circuits have the same rating.A Mr Buddy will not operate off the onboard propane, it operates at a much higher pressure.Consider upgrading to a Wave 3 or Wave 6Larry 1 Likes
Re: Don't want to winterize Reply #20 – October 12, 2018, 10:23:42 pm On Tonopah and Goldfield grades keep in mind you're already quite high so the numbers are a bit confusing. You will climb a bit (southbound) into town. Watch your speed - they absolutely mean the speed limit from one end of town to the other. As you leave Tonopah southbound you will climb a bit but it isn't anything drastic, more of a long pull. Some up and down. At Goldfield it is such a small (nearly ghost) town and there is a 90 degree turn in town. Southbound, this is a right turn. Even in a car you'd want to be going very slow. Again, watch your speed. As you leave Goldfield there is a grade to climb. As you reach the summit there is long downgrade. About 15 miles north of Tonopah there is a decent rest area with a gravel area large enough for your rig and to be able to turn around. We often see RV's of all types and sizes there. If you wish to stay in Beatty, the Death Valley Inn & RV Park is decent. It's at the south edge of town after you make the turn. Hookups, showers, etc. Oh, you may see wild burros. They seem to like visiting in the afternoon. One caution on traveling in Nevada - travel on the top half of your tank. Distances are deceiving. Consider filling up in Tonopah. Minden to Tonopah is approx 220 miles. Tonopah to Las Vegas is approx 225 miles. Enjoy your travels,Juli W06 26.5RBMinden, NV 2 Likes
Re: Don't want to winterize Reply #21 – October 13, 2018, 09:37:02 am We just traveled from Las Vegas to Reno on 95 with a overnight stop at Miller's Crossing. Cold in the morning but warm to hot during the day. Bring a few blankets. We will use the furnace if we need any warmth. We found even with the Lost of BTU it's still cheaper then using Mister Buddy and those small propane cans. 2 Likes
Re: Don't want to winterize Reply #22 – October 13, 2018, 02:19:14 pm "Sherwin Grade out of Bishop is 7,000+ ft dropping down into Bishop at about 3,000 ft."Here's a delayed 2¢ opinion on "Sherwin Grade".First I must profess my ignorance... I was not aware that the decline in question even had a name! 'Sherwin', who knew? Now that I've done the homework I'll concede. Been over that stretch a number of times, both north and south. Not enough to make me blink.Now if you want a scenic and interesting road you need to take "Old Sherwin Grade". That's more to my liking! About a mile south of Tom's Place watch for a road going to the right onto FR 4S80. This is the Old Sherwin Grade. It's a great, scenic, albeit narrow twisting road but easily transited with a LD. It will reconnect with Hwy 395 shortly before reaching Bishop. Highly recommended! 1 Likes
Re: Don't want to winterize Reply #23 – October 13, 2018, 02:24:05 pm Quote from: Kenneth Fears - October 11, 2018, 12:55:38 pmThe point is, PEX tubing is very unlikely to be damaged by freezing, and if you keep the interior of your rig livable and keep doors and access panels open, water heater on, the likelihood of having a problem is quite low.Just a caution - PEX tubing is interconnected via hard plastic tees and elbows, which do not flex as water freezes. As you say, best to prevent the freezing altogether.Steve 1 Likes
Re: Don't want to winterize Reply #24 – October 13, 2018, 10:25:54 pm Chris--Thx for the wisdom...that's what I figured, but was hoping those more experienced might have some shortcuts or tricks to delay the winterizing.I've not seen national news/weather for the last week here in Texas (the OTA channels I can get in Copperas Cove seem to only give the weather for the area & don't show the national maps like the KC meteorologists do), so hadn't seen y'all were having an early winter. I'd ask you to keep that stuff to yourself, but it always seems to make its way to Missouri. I talked with a friend who lives in the KC metro, but has a place on their farm an hour north of the metro; temps were in the low forties & they fired up their little wood stove when they were at the farm yesterday. I may do the blowout here in Texas, before I head north. I suspect I'm done spraying brush for this year...fall polishing wasn't on the schedule 'til I looked at all the bugs I've accumulated in the drives back & forth from MO to TX--the cabover looks like it really needs some TLC.Stay warm--Lynne 3 Likes
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