Water Pump Wacky September 27, 2018, 03:00:56 pm I replaced a cracked strainer and refilled the tank to about 1/3 to check for leaks. Did not detect any leaks but found the water does not come on for kitchen and bathroom sinks but does for the shower?You can hear the pump activate when shower is on but not the other two?Any clues are appreciated..Thanks in advance..John2003 26.5 MB
Re: Water Pump Wacky Reply #1 – September 27, 2018, 04:07:52 pm The water routing comes out of the pump in a single line, then splits for various locations. If you have water flow ANYWHERE the issue is after the pump. There is nothing in the lines that would prevent flow to the sinks but not the shower, except the strainers or constriction points at the fixtures.When I have worked on my system, getting calcified deposits that lodge in one or more of the fixture components (screens, cartridge, etc) is not unusual. I deal with them by looking at the easiest first. For example, the kitchen sink has multiple points where a blockage could occur. The easiest check is to unscrew the faucet head, then holding the hose pointing into the sink, turn on the faucet. If water gushes out the blockage is in the head. If not, I put the head back on and remove and check the cartridge with the pump off and pressure drained. With the cartridge out and a towel over the cartridge opening, I will turn the pump on for a fraction of a second, then off. If water gushes up, the issue is either in the cartridge or in the point where the faucet head hose attaches to the faucet below the faucet. And so on... I expect you will find calcium built up as a sludge or as a dam of small particles blocking a water passage.Ken F in NM
Re: Water Pump Wacky Reply #2 – September 27, 2018, 04:26:24 pm Quote from: jvarnedore - September 27, 2018, 03:00:56 pm Did not detect any leaks but found the water does not come on for kitchen and bathroom sinks but does for the shower?Bathroom faucet suggestion. As Ken suggested ... easier step first so remove the BR faucet screen and turn on the water. Fingers crossed that you get water. I'm betting you have the OEM plastic BR faucet and they are real simple. If you don't get water, I'd disconnect the cold water line, place it in a bucket and turn on the water pump. But I'm betting the water screen is totally clogged.
Re: Water Pump Wacky Reply #3 – September 27, 2018, 07:08:43 pm I hooked up city water and confirmed just the shower is getting flow. I'll check all the screens. Good news is I didn't see any leaks around the new strainer. Thanks..
Re: Water Pump Wacky Reply #4 – September 27, 2018, 07:30:34 pm Screens are all clear...must be somewhere shortly after it comes out of the pump...more sleuthing tomorrow! Ideas are appreciated...
Re: Water Pump Wacky Reply #5 – September 27, 2018, 08:23:23 pm If you have any shut off valves at the fixtures make sure they are open - possibly hey were turned off at the sinks before pump work and forgotten that was done. Since showers don't typically have shut off valves it would still be on.Disconnecting at the fixtures (hopefully yours just unscrew), helps know if the the pipes are ok or not.JaneSent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone 1 Likes
Re: Water Pump Wacky Reply #6 – September 28, 2018, 11:28:04 am No shutoff valves. I wonder if the lines should be blown out before filling? Would the hot water heater be associated with an issue like this? I'm just thrilled I solved the leak issue...I did check the fittings at the kitchen sink and took off the removable wand to expose just the line and no pressure at all.Maybe I drain the entire system and blow it out with air pressure and the refill? I'm new to all this...
Re: Water Pump Wacky Reply #7 – September 28, 2018, 02:13:46 pm Hi John,I have the same year and model of your rig and I have replaced several water pumps and strainers. Let me ask a couple questions and offer a suggestion.Did you have water flow from ALL faucets before replacing the strainer on the water pump? Have you have tried using both hot and cold water faucets?I would suggest turning off the water pump and connect a hose to your city water connection and see if you get water from all outlets. If your faucets won't allow water to flow, you may have somehow gotten sediment plugging up your faucets.Please let us know how this issue gets resolved.Steve K 1 Likes
Re: Water Pump Wacky Reply #8 – September 28, 2018, 04:37:02 pm John you are stumping us Steve gave good suggestions. I don’t know if this will work or how much of the pipes you can get to, but filling with real cold or real hot water and feeling if the pipe temperature changes might hive an idea. Make sure you are not turning on the water heater with no water in it. As that can damage it (heating element part at least). Many hot water heaters have a way to empty them (valve) so you can check isn’t it has water to it.We had sediment issues but they showed in the pump and low flow. Cleaned the pump and when outlet flow was good there everything worked well. Do you see any sign of leaks under your coach or under the pipes you can get to?Can anyone tell John how his LD piping goes?For our TK It is fairly simple - comes from fresh water to the pump (both innkitchen area under cabinets), then, splits and goes to the hot water heater across coach then comes back. Hot water and cold water lines both split off to go to fixtures (all done under kitchen cabinets) with the shower hose coming off a diverter that isn’t part of the sink.MB seems more complicated and harder to get to from what others have said but basic splits should be similar.
Re: Water Pump Wacky Reply #9 – September 28, 2018, 06:09:54 pm I don't know the plumbing routing in your MB, but it would seem likely that the shower is the first branch after the water pump. After that point, you may have a blockage that has moved into the line, or a crimped hose. Does hot water work anywhere?Steve
Re: Water Pump Wacky Reply #10 – September 28, 2018, 08:59:20 pm The only flex line is from the pump to the rigid lines. As most of the lines are not flex lines, a crimped line is not likely. As the shower works, the pump is not the issue, nor is the flex line from the pump to the first junction. Any material creating a blockage has to be small enough that it can pass through the pump, so it is not large enough to create a blockage in the lines.The issue is in the fixtures, unless there is a valve that was added to the system.Ken F in NM 1 Likes
Re: Water Pump Wacky Reply #11 – September 29, 2018, 08:54:15 am I agree with Ken. A blockage large enough to stop up a 1/2" water pipe would not get through a pump (sediment stops a pump).Something coming out is the hot water heater and blocking the pipes .... well why does it block sinks and toilet but not shower.Gotta trace the lines to really see how things are connected but "T"s are common with the water splitting into two directions. So only the shower working (one half of one "T"...a stumper.A valve makes the most sense...I would tend to think some custom plumbing somewhere or fixtures (eg sink and toilet issues) rather than a stopped up pipe.JaneSent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
Re: Water Pump Wacky Reply #12 – September 29, 2018, 11:20:52 am John, Nobody has asked about the toilet, does it get water to flush with? When you say the shower works, does it flow when just the hot water is turned on? Just the cold, does it flow also? Check around the water heater to see if it has a 'winterizing kit'. That is a bypass with two hand valves. I would see if one valve was closed or plugged up. That would cause things to work oddly. I'm suspecting that someone has added a manual valve somewhere, perhaps to separate the system for use in winter or something like that. I'm not sure if a 2003 still came with the roof swamp cooler? There is a manual valve in the wardrobe closet that controls that water. Does the water pump run if you open that? You could also have the outside shower, does it work? Hot and cold? (not with the water heater on yet) Kind of a separate topic....In my adventures with a 2001 MB, I was going to put in two self draining valves, in line with the outside shower under the sink, to allow it to be shut off in cold weather camping. The water valves, really just two way with air plumbed to one side, would allow the shower head to gravity drain the lines outside, without affecting operation of the inside plumbing. Ran out of time for that. RonB
Re: Water Pump Wacky Reply #13 – September 29, 2018, 11:44:05 am "I'm not sure if a 2003 still came with the roof swamp cooler?"---A 2003 has an AC. I also suspect that a previous owner added a valve for winterizing; did s/he live in a cold winter weather area? Please post when you resolve the issue; thank you.
Re: Water Pump Wacky Reply #14 – September 29, 2018, 11:50:46 am I don't need to "winterize" (fortunately!), but maybe look for something like this?Amazon.com: Camco Permanent Pump Converter Winterizing Kit- Allows You to... As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: Water Pump Wacky Reply #15 – September 29, 2018, 01:01:20 pm Quote from: Kenneth Fears - September 28, 2018, 08:59:20 pmThe only flex line is from the pump to the rigid lines. As most of the lines are not flex lines, a crimped line is not likely.Our '04 is plumbed with PEX, not so the '03? PEX is certainly flexible, and as such could be inadvertently crimped...Steve
Re: Water Pump Wacky Reply #16 – September 29, 2018, 02:54:49 pm Hi Joan. My friends 2001 MB came with both the A/C and right next to it the swamp cooler. If you don't close off the louvered vents on the swamp cooler it lets in hot air as you run the A/C next to it. RonB
Re: Water Pump Wacky Reply #17 – September 30, 2018, 12:08:50 pm There were no valves ever turned off and the unit was not winterized as we were travelling in another state while it sat in Arkansas. There was a brief cold snap which caused the strainer to crack and leak. I found the leak after the cold snap (about 7-10 days). I drained the fresh water what was left and got any remnants of water plus used the amazing damp rid. All sink appliances were working normally before the cold snap. Strainer has been replaced...no leaks...Shower works and toilet works. I did notice today the hot water side slowed down a lot out of the shower but cold runs fine.No pressure to kitchen or bathroom sink. Here are 2 360 shots. First is the pump area below the sink and the second is the shelf area and you can see the links below the sink.http://theta360.com/s/b1v8SiCSq7l8bVWLDNVLQienYhttp://theta360.com/s/hJwpphFtICiNjCtBxfiFNuFg8I'm just wondering if I should go through a pseudo winterizing and blow the lines out? The unit has not been used since last fall and we were planning our inaugural trip for later in October.Glad to be part of this amazing community...thanks John
Re: Water Pump Wacky Reply #18 – September 30, 2018, 06:07:31 pm Hi again John,If I read your posts in this discussion correctly, you haven't used your LD at all since last winter? So we don't know if your faucets were working at all this year. Why is this important? Because I went back and read your posts from 8 months ago.Back then you posted that you had not winterized, experienced a cold snap and your water tank froze solid. Seems you also had some leakage after things thawed out. You figured out that was when your strainer cracked. I am surprised you never checked your rig's water system until now.Pseudo winterizing isn't going to fix anything. In my opinion, you are now finding out what else broke during your "cold snap".Looks like new faucets are in order and you are lucky if the toilet is not cracked and the water heater damaged. I would start by replacing the bathroom faucet which is the easiest to deal with. If that works and you don't find other plumbing leaks, move on to the kitchen faucet. You really need to pay more attention to your fresh water system. I would think you need to sanitize it too. Good luck,Steve K. 2 Likes
Re: Water Pump Wacky Reply #19 – September 30, 2018, 08:39:41 pm John - I agree with Steve there might be other leaks/problems caused by the freezing.I would suggest unhooking where pipes connects .- where those flare joints are (one can clearly be seen under the kitchen sink). They come off by turning them (like taking a nut off a bolt). Mine didn't need a lot of pressure and you can wrap a cloth around them if desired to protect the plastic from the wrench metal (if you need a wrench, I think we needed one to start it then hand turned after that).That would clearly tell you that water is getting to that point in the line or not. We tested our cleaned pump by putting the outlet pipe into a gallon bucket - it doesn't flow that fast to easy to test and turn off before the bucket got even half full.I don't have personal experience with faucets freezing but RV fixtures are not as robust as house ones - that is why they need a lower water pressure.My big concern would be if there are leaks from one or more pipes/fittings that got split open where you can't see it - so leaking water inside your floors (rotting out that wood). Any fitting (elbow, connector, etc. is typically the weak spots but we can't always see under the floor where there might be a connector. An infrared thermometer "gun" that measures temperature would help assist (make water temperature very different than the ambient temperature and follow the pipe looking for places it seems to spread out).You have some sleuthing to do, but it can be done easily enough.Let us know what you find. JaneSent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
Re: Water Pump Wacky Reply #20 – October 01, 2018, 05:06:47 pm Maybe I missed something. You said you had a cracked strainer which you fixed, but you had no other leaks. You said the shower worked but the faucets had no flow. Why are you now looking for leaks, and why are you considering replacing the faucets?Ken F in NM
Re: Water Pump Wacky Reply #21 – October 02, 2018, 03:51:15 am Ken,Steve found where John said he had a freeze last winter because he didn't winterize the LD and that is what caused the pump strainer leak. After the pump strainer leak was fixed, the water came into the toilet and shower head but but not any sinks.No shutoff valves were found. Everything worked fine before (we are now guessing that before might have been before the freeze happened - John tell us if everything was checkled and worked right before you fixed the pump strainer.).So it might be that there was damage to more than just the pump strainer. Steve is guessing faucets were damaged and no longer work. I always get concerned about leaks as water does so much damage. And for me it is easier to check the pipes just before the faucets just to confirm the water is getting to that point rather than start with replacing the faucets to confirm they work ok.John, Did you do a test with city water - most of the plumbing pipe path is the same and if that works it confirms your fixtures are ok but with your symptoms I would expect the same issues (the pipes should be the same someplace after the pump/waterheater where both the city water and the pumped fresh water go into the pipes leading to the plumbing fixtures).A quick test for leaks might be to put the pump inlet pipe into a bucket filled with a known amount of water, put the shower head into another bucket, then turn in the shower and the pump and see if the amount if water sucked into the pump comes out into the shower bucket. Or if it got lost along the way.Ken the issue is a real stumper. Shut off valves that John didn't realize were shut off would have been the easy solution. A pump that didn't pump to anywhere would might indicate the pump especially if city water worked.But the shower and toilet working (on cold with less flow at the shower for hot only) is more difficult to figure out what the problem is, it is not the pump. And nobody has piped up saying here is where the pipes go in my MB (eg from pump splits to water heater and cold line, cold line goes to ... then ... while hot line from water heater goes to ... then ... Looking at the current floor plans at the LD webpage, it is possible the lines go from shower to toilet to bathroom sink to kitchen sink, but it is possible it does not go in that direction. And I don't know if John has an outdoor shower and where that is located or where the pump or water heater or fresh water tank or city water inlet is. And we know LD does their own custom stuff - not necessarily a standard way for a specific style of LD.So the problem is at the fixtures themselves or the pipes leading to those fixtures.JaneSent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone 1 Likes
Re: Water Pump Wacky Reply #22 – October 02, 2018, 12:05:44 pm Hi John. I concur with Jane and Ken. Your faucets are probably blocked with fine particles of scale from hard water deposits. The valve bodies have small holes that would plug up easily (the 'cartridges'). A soaking in Lime-away or CLR cleaner should loosen up the particles enough that you could rinse them away. Plumbing in a MB; from the pump splits into a line going aft to the sink in the bathroom, then to the outside wall and behind the toilet, to the toilet left side, on to underneath the shower. It splits off near the pump to go under the floor to the water heater and up to the roof through the closet, and a manual valve, if you have the swamp cooler. From the water heater it goes back under the floor in the same small passage the cold water came in, to the bathroom sink. The hot water splits and goes to the shower alongside the cold water going to the shower. That circuitous route for the hot water might be why it is a lesser flow than the cold flow. Where the hot water comes out from under the floor, near the bathroom sink, it joins the cold water pipes and they go to the kitchen sink, and on to the outside shower. The fresh water tank is along the outside wall aft of the batteries, to in front of the wheel well. I don't remember exactly where, but the city water pressure entry aft, and the water fill just forward of the outside shower give it away. Somebody who has a MB can correct me anytime. I'm just going from distant memories, but I should be close. RonB 1 Likes
Re: Water Pump Wacky Reply #23 – October 02, 2018, 12:21:15 pm Could the back flow prevention valve, between the tank and the water heater, be the problem? 1 Likes
Re: Water Pump Wacky Reply #24 – October 02, 2018, 01:18:04 pm Quote from: dollinsdale - October 02, 2018, 12:21:15 pmCould the back flow prevention valve, between the tank and the water heater, be the problem?Since the shower's hot water flow is low, there is a good chance that sediment and calcium buildup from the water heater has plugged the check valve. The faucets are probably suffering from the same condition, it's a common problem with LDs that have been neglected, not flushing the water heater annually or more often. The inside of the water heater accumulates mineral from the water, when heated, and it should be cleaned and well flushed to eliminate this issue annually, at a minimum.https://www.homedepot.com/p/Camco-RV-Water-Heater-Tank-Rinser-11691/205808422Larry 3 Likes
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