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Topic: Lazy Daze TCO - Total Cost of Ownership (Read 1064 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Lazy Daze TCO - Total Cost of Ownership
Reply #25 –
Rik,

When we purchased our ‘15 RB, I had a plan. Plan for the expected and be ready for the unexpected.

With this in mind, I have “banked” the funds for each contingency. Paint Job: 15 years expected life span. Batteries: 3-5 years. Tires: 5 years. The list goes on and includes insurance etc.

Each items cost is divided by their individual life expectancy and the total sum becomes my monthly deposit into my “ LD Fund”. So far I am aprox 15 months ahead of schedule.

Everything else is out of pocket as the need arises...fuel, maintenance etc.

That’s just me. I hope it all works out.

Kent
2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"
Re: Lazy Daze TCO - Total Cost of Ownership
Reply #26 –
"The cynic knows the cost of everything but the value of nothing" Oscar Wilde
What about TVO, Total Value of Ownership? 
I tend to think similarly to Kent,   keeping savings to cover upcoming normal and expected anticipated expenses for RV, auto, house,  K9s, etc.  A bit more to cover the unexpecteds,  particularly w/ K9's.
In planning road trips,   I usually budget about $4K/mo, especially for cross country trips where I won't be doing a  lot of boondocking.  At the end of the trip, surplus goes back to savings.
YMMV
joel
Joel & Terry Wiley
dog Zeke
2013  31 IB   Orwan   / 2011 CRV Tow'd LWEROVE
Re: Lazy Daze TCO - Total Cost of Ownership
Reply #27 –
A good budget/savings is like a good bike lock. Good to keep the pesky fingers away but all to often easily picked.

Stay strong.

Kent
2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"
Re: Lazy Daze TCO - Total Cost of Ownership
Reply #28 –
Hi Rik and Lanie, I'd also like to welcome you to the Fold. Planning for future costs are always fun, as a mental exercise, and in anticipation too. I liked your layout. Many PM costs are related to time, and others are related to mileage.
  The number one Good cost you estimated in was indoor storage. At 19 years of exposure on my "Bluebelle' being stored outdoors has been the worst factor. My parents had to store their 5 or 6 motorhomes at remote locations essentially outdoors without protection, had common break-ins to steal things ( a CB!, must have been worth at least $15, damage $200), and sometimes just to vandalize. Mine sits in my driveway, with alarm, and 'hardened' systems. Secure storage here is in the $400 a month range, even for a short 24".
  I think your maintenance costs are too high, then again things will crop up that weren't planned for. Best to be prepared. Someone here opted for a machine wash at a truck place and the people used something that essentially stripped off the paint. In Texas, you know about large hail stones. We were away, but parked at my mother in laws house. Southern Fort Worth. Hail caused $$$$ of damage to the neighbors house, but not my MIL or the motorhome.  Priceless moment: watching a funnel cloud form directly over you, at my SIL's house!  Unexpected accidents like Kent's door, happen to all of us, most are a lot more expensive. I have 3" clearance in my driveway between my bumper and the house. At least the stucco didn't cost much, I bought my own Harbor Freight hydraulic dent 'pusher' after I borrowed a friends a few times. I won't talk about that fire hydrant in Roswell NM. Yes the back end does swing around as Tiger knows. (Tiger, I had inflicted damage to my paint just a day after I picked her up at LD)
   I do my own oil/filter changes with Mobil 1. Air cleaner is way too easy to pay someone else. Haven't changed the xmsn oil or filter yet. Bleed my own brakes every 2-3 years (DOT4). You won't need spark plugs, coils, fuel filters for a long time, but you will have unexpected items, which you did account for. You didn't include new batteries, I don't buy the $Trojan brand, I get the Costco ones about every 4-5 years. I don't rotate tires. Don't forget the seventh tire, the spare ages out. Ford and Lazy Daze recommend a front end alignment after a few months, fully loaded. I used bricks on the front seat floor boards to simulate passenger and driver weight. I have never needed to change that since. Tapered bushing replacement parts in the front end. I should think about changing the transmission fluid soon, but not a priority yet. Coolant I've changed. Belt and hoses soon, front ball joint bellows soon, new steering damper (tomorrow). I've only spent $12 roof air conditioner (new foam filter, old ones disintegrating). Nothing on the cab A/C, reefer, water pump, oven, stovetop or electrical. I had to add my solar system,  yours is included. I did have to replace the TPV on my water heater. Really shouldn't turn it on unless there is water in it. (oopsi !)  At 10-15 years, a roof reseal, new escape hatch, for you just the 14x14 hatch covers. A skylight if you get another floor plan. Towing gear if you decide to tow. I think your insurance costs will be higher, and a good towing plan is good to have. At 19 years I still spend more than you for registration in California.
   I think your expenses will come in much lower, but as Larry says, it isn't an inexpensive lifestyle. We still manage to travel out of country and have gone on quite a few cruises, so you aren't dialed in to just motorhoming.
   Friends of mine, who live on their 42' boat, thought that comment about 'Break Out Another Thousand' should be amended to 'BOATT', another Ten Thousand.    RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: Lazy Daze TCO - Total Cost of Ownership
Reply #29 –
Lazy Bones is spot on.  An RV dollar is $500.  A boat dollar is $1000    ;)
2003 MB
Re: Lazy Daze TCO - Total Cost of Ownership
Reply #30 –
Quote from: RonB  - 
Hi Rik and Lanie, I'd also like to welcome you to the Fold.
Thanks Ron - We really enjoy the hospitality of the Lazy Daze crowd!  Hope to meet some fellow owners in the future.

Quote from: RonB  - 
Secure storage here is in the $400 a month range, even for a short 24".
They've also got that sort of price range here as well, but would be for a 14x50 unit.  Someone is also starting up an "elite" RV storage for about $450/month.  This is a massive indoor building that's temperature controlled - mostly for making sure things don't ever freeze.  They offer a valet service, and will wash, wax, and clean your RV (of course for an extra fee).  If you are going to be leaving the rig for a while, they'll start things up for you periodically as well. 

I believe the prices were overall much less about one year ago.  However, when Hurricane Harvey hit and caused the massive flooding, all available RV storage units were snapped up.  I've been told by the RV storage managers they still have flood victims belongings in there, and will be some time before that all gets sorted out.

Quote from: RonB  - 
I think your maintenance costs are too high, then again things will crop up that weren't planned for. Best to be prepared.
So far, it's been a bit frustrating calling the various places around Houston.  I think there's just been so many people buying RVs that it's turned into a gold rush for the RV repair places.  I've been inquiring to places within 30-60 minutes from the greater Houston area, and finding some better options.  I also don't mind changing my own oil, but someone at Ford suggested that I get someone to do it for me (Ford or others) until the warranty expires.  That way I'd have paperwork to back things up - just in case. 

-Rik
Rik & Lanie
Planning on the 2019 24FD
Re: Lazy Daze TCO - Total Cost of Ownership
Reply #31 –
it's been a bit frustrating calling the various places around Houston

Because the economy is so strong across the board, attempting to get anyone to do anything (of quality) is presenting a challenge for everyone. If you think trying to find a suitable road shop is difficult, try getting some bids for home improvement/construction. Forgetaboutit.

We had a great relationship with a local auto shop that serviced our rig for 5 years, but we became a bit stranded when they sold the business last year. The new owners weren't qualified, so I spent around 9 months searching for a new source. Tried 3 different places before I finally hit paydirt with the 4th.

Really, in hindsight, part of the reason we were even able to restore/maintain our '93 was due to our relationship with the first shop. I was beginning to think that if we couldn't find a suitable replacement, our RV ownership days may have been numbered. Now, I'm not talking about regular DIY stuff like oil changes, electrical issues, reefer problems, etc, but things like replacing an exhaust manifold gasket. We have a 454 jammed into our 22' G30, so to say it's a tight fit is an understatement.

My suggestion to you is to put on your 'salesman' hat and actually visit some shops. It's crazy, but the customer-provider relationship is now inverted. It's like you have to audition for their business - especially if they are any good. My new contact (co-owner with a business his dad started) is a "car guy", so we hit it off pretty well. He actually likes LDs, likes my G30, and really likes the idea of the 454 jammed in there. (He's worked on plenty of LDs with 350s, 460s & V10s.)

Without a good relationship, you're just a sitting duck. You can be ignored, blown off and ripped off. There are some major RV dealers around where we live, and for those who bought class A rigs that need servicing, I feel kinda sorry for them. My guess is between changing interests and ongoing negative dealings and cash outflow, the average 2 year RV ownership/usage cycle is in no danger of lengthening.
Re: Lazy Daze TCO - Total Cost of Ownership
Reply #32 –
dupe
Re: Lazy Daze TCO - Total Cost of Ownership
Reply #33 –
Quote from: chiron  - 
That's good information to know!  I keep hearing how these E-450's are solidly built, and that's just another testimony for the list. 

In my effort to "count the cost", there's always a number of assumptions that have to be made.  My philosophy, is to try and and come up with a worst case scenario, stare at that number, and see if I'm comfortable with it.  Once in motion however, there will be a number of optimizations, and I'll try to reduce that number along the way.  Some things will end up being better, and other things will crop up that you didn't expect.  Murphy's Law seems to not care about one's agenda or schedule.  So I'm always doing things to try and keep Murphy contained.  ;D

-Rik
Hi Rik,  I like your style.  I'm a big "spreadsheet" wonk and did all kinds of projections before we put the order in for our new 2017 27'MB back in August 2016.  In the last fourteen months since we picked it up from the mother ship we've been out for seven months (retired).  The LD was part of a total plan of downsizing and repositioning our lives.  First, I sold my house in St. Pete that I owned free and clear.  Then Marie and I had a huge estate sale to liquidate everything we owned that wouldn't fit into a tiny home we purchased in  Sebring, Florida for winters.  The LD was bought so we could visit all our families during the spring/summer/fall time frames in North Carolina, Cape Cod, Detroit, the Twin Cities and Arizona.  I look at expenses based on days we are on the road, rather than cost per mile, since we are plan to be out between 120 and 150 days a year.  We divide our stays between private campgrounds, state campgrounds, national parks and county parks and make sure we are taking care maintaining the vehicles properly.  At this point, we are running about $20,000 to $24,000 a year all-in (including depreciation, storage, insurance, maintenance, gas, campgrounds, etc.).    We've talked about what we could do with $24,000 a year in travel if we didn't have the LD, and of course, we could do some cruises, fly and stay near family, etc.  But we wouldn't be in our own "home on the road", sleeping in our own bed or seeing all the extra things we've been seeing.  Who knows; there may come a time we decided to make changes.  But at this point, it's all working out and we are enjoying the lifestyle.  Good luck.  I've always been willing to spend money for quality, knowing that in the end, it it's about value.
David
David and Marie Philbrick
Proud former 2017 27' MB Owners
Re: Lazy Daze TCO - Total Cost of Ownership
Reply #34 –
" At this point, we are running about $20,000 to $24,000 a year all-in (including depreciation, storage, insurance, maintenance, gas, campgrounds, etc.).    We've talked about what we could do with $24,000 a year in travel if we didn't have the LD, and of course, we could do some cruises, fly and stay near family, etc."

Being a number person - after all I'm retired - this brought up what would I spent per year without an LD.

Avg cost in USA of hotel room is $135
Avg cost of eating in USA  is $13 per meal.

$135*120 = $16,200
$13*120 = $1560
So just hotels and eating on avg for 120 day is $17760

Avg plane ticket between $300 and $400 btw held steady from 1990 to today.  Little higher in the 90's.....
Assume three airplane fights   $1000 avg.
Assume avg USA Entertainment spending  $ 2,728  CONSUMER EXPENDITURES--2016

<smile> we are now at $21488

Of course all the numbers are at best guessing and have a plus or minus of 1000 per cent but the point is its your money.   And as mother always said "you can replace the money you can't replace the time".   Enjoy the life ya got 100% of the time.


personal fine art photo stuff
TF Mack | Flickr
It's all good .......
2014 Twin King
 
Re: Lazy Daze TCO - Total Cost of Ownership
Reply #35 –
Quote from: colddog  - 
"

Being a number person - after all I'm retired - this brought up what would I spent per year without an LD.

Avg cost in USA of hotel room is $135
Avg cost of eating in USA  is $13 per meal.

$135*120 = $16,200
$13*120 = $1560
So just hotels and eating on avg for 120 day is $17760


I think some revision on your meal cost is in order. Are you only eating one meal a day?  Is this for only one person?  “Fast food” only?  Tax and tip included?  We find meals to be a lot more expensive, and “eating in” to be a significant cost savings factor.  YMMV, of course.  🤔 — Jon
(Former) ‘06 TK “Albatross.” And (former) Vespa 250.   Alas, no more; both are gone.😕 Great memories remain! 😄
Re: Lazy Daze TCO - Total Cost of Ownership
Reply #36 –
Quote from: Jon & Loni  - 
I think some revision on your meal cost is in order. Are you only eating one meal a day?  Is this for only one person?  “Fast food” only?  Tax and tip included?  We find meals to be a lot more expensive, and “eating in” to be a significant cost savings factor.  YMMV, of course.  🤔 — Jon

Yes good point.   I was in one person mode for the meals and air travel.   <sigh> see what happens when I get in accounting mode.  Yes that just eating one meal.   I assume if you are in a hotel room you'll get the 'free' breakfast and somehow only eat what I call entertainment snacks  for lunch. 

New number corrected for 'real' life -- ie two folks

Adding in one more person move the total  to $20,320.
personal fine art photo stuff
TF Mack | Flickr
It's all good .......
2014 Twin King
Re: Lazy Daze TCO - Total Cost of Ownership
Reply #38 –
"Being a number person - after all I'm retired - this brought up what would I spent per year without an LD.

Avg cost in USA of hotel room is $135
Avg cost of eating in USA  is $13 per meal.

$135*120 = $16,200
$13*120 = $1560
So just hotels and eating on avg for 120 day is $17760

Avg plane ticket between $300 and $400 btw held steady from 1990 to today.  Little higher in the 90's.....
Assume three airplane fights   $1000 avg.
Assume avg USA Entertainment spending  $ 2,728  CONSUMER EXPENDITURES--2016

<smile> we are now at $21488"

•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•

I am a big fan of "what equals what", and everyone's posts above suggests I am not alone in this quest.  I started out with this concept in the late 80's when trying to figure out how to reach geographic goals on the ground and at low cost.  Better to rent or buy an RV?

History:  In 1980, Eastern Airlines had a special that for $450., one could travel anywhere that Eastern went for THREE WEEKS.  Long story short, I managed 43,000 miles in those three weeks, solo.  I ate a lot of meals on the planes, as every flight went through Atlanta!  A friend who was an air hostess on Eastern advised that I request vegetarian meals, so I did.  Broccoli is very prominent in this venue, but I didn't get sick or bloated from chemicals.   I stayed with friends at each stop, but WOW - what an experience !!

Can't hold a candle to having one's own chariot and living quarters at the ready, though.

Fiscal considerations aside, my biggest reason for wanting our own facilities is just that . . . they are our OWN facilities.  Too many stories about bedbugs these days, even in high-priced accommodations, to suit me, and unsanitary conditions provide a real-time danger to someone whose immune system has been compromised with the meds that keep cancer at bay!

Eating out in unfamiliar territory is risky, so being able to cook in place has more than just fiscal appeal.

A biggy for me is "the fatigue factor".  When tired, a clean, safe place to rest is available.  And we don't need to go into how comforting it is to have one's own "comfort station"!  ;->


   Virtual hugs,

   Judie

Re: Lazy Daze TCO - Total Cost of Ownership
Reply #39 –
Meals can be mitigated by using suite hotels and buying groceries, but that is chasing nickels. The big costs I see are the hotels.

I track out spending over all travel, which includes Lazy Daze, van camping and hotel hybrid trips, and European BnB travel.

Europe avg lodging cost for two over 3 months-$74

Lazy Daze over 9 months of boondocking, state and federal camps- $19.51

Van/hotel hybrid, over 155 nights, including nights with relatives (easy to use the van in a residential driveway) from $19 - $30, depending on the season, locations, etc.

For food, we spend what we spend at home. More dining out in the road, but restaurant prices are much lower than where we live, except in NYC.

I’m not sure what this means, but the costs we look at are the cost of a home, which we spitball at $7500 (net of the cost of a storage unit) per year, though the electric bill is climbing, and the DSL line is getting to be outside the acceptable range. But then, we don’t have a big depreciation cost to think of, our ‘92 is almost fully deprecated, and may be increasing in value, if the prices we see in ads is considered.  The maintenance bill is low, unless you look at the “upgrades” I have made and the labor cost I have enjoyed.

So is there a bottom line? Not to us. We can afford to travel in the way we do, so we do.  If we had to adjust our style, we would. 
Paul
'92 Mid Bath
Re: Lazy Daze TCO - Total Cost of Ownership
Reply #40 –
Quote from: Judie Ashford  - 
A biggy for me is "the fatigue factor".  When tired, a clean, safe place to rest is available.  And we don't need to go into how comforting it is to have one's own "comfort station"!  ;->

And sleeping in your own bed every night is priceless .
We have done our fair share of suitcase traveling and sleep issues are always a problem.
It take me three days to get used to a new bed and eating every meal out isn't a healthy thing to do for long periods.

In contrast, traveling this summer in the PWN, access to farmer's markets, and road side fruit and vegetable stands has provided us with wide variety of produce plus different types of fresh sea food, wines and ciders .
Just wish we could do it on $13 a day.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Lazy Daze TCO - Total Cost of Ownership
Reply #41 –
Quote from: colddog  - 
" At this point, we are running about $20,000 to $24,000 a year all-in (including depreciation, storage, insurance, maintenance, gas, campgrounds, etc.).    We've talked about what we could do with $24,000 a year in travel if we didn't have the LD, and of course, we could do some cruises, fly and stay near family, etc."

Being a number person - after all I'm retired - this brought up what would I spent per year without an LD.

Avg cost in USA of hotel room is $135
Avg cost of eating in USA  is $13 per meal.

$135*120 = $16,200
$13*120 = $1560
So just hotels and eating on avg for 120 day is $17760

Avg plane ticket between $300 and $400 btw held steady from 1990 to today.  Little higher in the 90's.....
Assume three airplane fights  $1000 avg.
Assume avg USA Entertainment spending  $ 2,728  CONSUMER EXPENDITURES--2016

<smile> we are now at $21488

Of course all the numbers are at best guessing and have a plus or minus of 1000 per cent but the point is its your money.  And as mother always said "you can replace the money you can't replace the time".  Enjoy the life ya got 100% of the time.
[/quote

The statistician replied to the CEO who gave him the numbers and asked him what they meant, "What do you want them to mean?"  We spent 7 nights in the Grand Tetons National Park in Bossa Nova and if we spent the same time in the Jackson Lake Lodge, five miles down the road, we would have paid $2,320 to $2,800.  We paid $460.  Ditto for Yellowstone, NYC, and Cape Cod.  The numbers listed above don't take into account the 7,500 miles we put in for our three-month jaunts, either.  As a Regional Director I spent years on the road, living in hotel rooms, and if I had to do 120 days a year in hotel rooms now, I'd shoot myself.  Finally, I believe your food calculation is a bit off.  Let's say you are capable of eating slop 3xs a day and are too cheap to tip, $13 x 3 meals a day x 2 people x 120 days = $9,360.  As my mother always said, "you are what you eat."
David and Marie Philbrick
Proud former 2017 27' MB Owners