Re: My one LD gripe Reply #25 – July 16, 2018, 11:27:39 am Quote from: JCT - July 16, 2018, 11:06:54 amThis article may be interesting to some:Failed drug tests on the rise for RV makers and other manufacturers |...A guest editorial for RVers Online from eleven years ago:What all RV Purchasers Should ConsiderThose guys in that Jayco video someone put one looked like they were hopped up on something. It was like the camera was on fast motion
Re: My one LD gripe Reply #26 – July 16, 2018, 11:29:29 am Quote from: Renegade242 - July 15, 2018, 11:58:25 pmIt is disappointing that they are not willing to consider alternatives although from their perspective they have a continuous back-log so why worry? Not to point fingers but considering that California normally leads the rest of the nation in ecological energy issues I would have guessed they would strongly promote use of electric over LP especially for this application.LD is a small company that has learn to build a big quality coach, at a good price point . They are not a custom builder, outside of a wall group of options. They have continuously improved their coaches over the years but they are not technological leaders..As to an all electric RV, it is going to be very difficult to boondock in the summer or winter with everything powered off solar, there isn't enough roof surface available for the needed solar panels.Electric refrigerators uses a lot of power, requiring several panels just to operate one. How do you expect to generate the huge amount of electrical power to operate an electric stove without hookups or running the generator every time you want a cup of coffee or cook a meal?What's going to power the water heater and the interior heating ? More batterie and panels?I would be interested in how you would design an new LD's electrical generating system to provide the same level of usage as one built today, with the same degree of year-round dependability and function. remembering that many of us camp every month of the year.If you want a propane free RV, many of the big DPs are built this way and they are perfect for parking in a beautiful RV park where 50-amp service is available. Or you can run a 10,000-watt diesel generator each morning .There's nothing like the smell of diesel burning in the morning.I'm not a luddite, being interested in electric refrigerators and if it is possible to operate one strictly off solar and what the winter panel needs would be, in additional to our present needs. For the rest of the power hungry appliances, propane is still the most practical and cost efficient way of powering them, IMO.Larry 2 Likes
Re: My one LD gripe Reply #27 – July 16, 2018, 11:40:50 am Quote from: RonB - July 16, 2018, 11:18:41 amI've never had to winterize my coach. I was in 5 degree weather at Bryce Canyon once, (heater ran a lot), and the only damage was that the windshield washer reservoir took a while, with engine running, to thaw out. (Guess the anti-freeze in the washer tank wasn't quite up to snuff). If I did want to winterize it, couldn't I just empty the water heater, and blow it, and the rest of the plumbing clear with air? Any remaining water wouldn't be concentrated enough in one place to cause a problem. After that I would still put in about 2 gallons of anti-freeze in my water tank and pump it through to catch the water tank residual, pump, toilet valve and manifold breaker, inside the floor water lines, etc. I would expect most of that 2 gallons would get into the water heater. I have a permanent ball valve on the water heater outlet to drain most of that. I would use that to pour into the traps, to end up in the emptied holding tanks. RonBAir is an option but has a rather high failure rate as any water that remains settles to the lowest points and freezes there breaking that pipe or fitting. The problem with no bypass is antifreeze won't travel through pipes to your hot water spigots until hot water tank is full. The other issue is pouring antifreeze into your water tank to then pump through the system. It leaves a bad taste in your water tank that stays a very long time. My other RVs had a way to disconnect the water tank and suck antifreeze directly through the pump and through all your plumbing without filling the water heater. The only way I can think to do the LD is pour about seven gallons of fairly expensive antifreeze into the water tank and fill the hot water heater so I can treat the hot water plumbing. It can be done but.....When I leave my house in Winter I pump antifreeze through it's plumbing but I have one of those on demand hot water heaters so it's not an issue and that would solve the problem in the LD too but I'm not sure that's an option in the space the LD has for it's current system.
Re: My one LD gripe Reply #28 – July 16, 2018, 11:47:03 am Quote from: Larry W - July 16, 2018, 11:29:29 amLD is a small company that has learn to build a big quality coach, at a good price point . They are not a custom builder, outside of a wall group of options. They have continuously improved their coaches over the years but they are not technological leaders..As to an all electric RV, it is going to be very difficult to boondock in the summer or winter with everything powered off solar, there isn't enough roof surface available for the needed solar panels.Electric refrigerators uses a lot of power, requiring several panels just to operate one. How do you expect to generate the huge amount of electrical power to operate an electric stove without hookups or running the generator every time you want a cup of coffee or cook a meal?What's going to power the water heater and the interior heating ? More batterie and panels?I would be interested in how you would design an new LD's electrical generating system to provide the same level of usage as one built today, with the same degree of year-round dependability and function. remembering that many of us camp every month of the year.If you want a propane free RV, many of the big DPs are built this way and they are perfect for parking in a beautiful RV park where 50-amp service is available. Or you can run a 10,000-watt diesel generator each morning .There's nothing like the smell of diesel burning in the morning.I'm not a luddite, being interested in electric refrigerators and if it is possible to operate one strictly off solar and what the winter panel needs would be, in additional to our present needs. For the rest of the power hungry appliances, propane is still the most practical and cost efficient way of powering them, IMO.LarryI think he meant an option to switch to electric with your water heater when you are hooked up but as someone else pointed out this might overwhelm the 30amp LD system.As far as propane verses electricity in boodocking though yeah propane is hands down winner. In my off grid home we have propane water heater, refrigerator, freezer and stove. That really only leaves lights and television and charging phones, computers etc. Our entire house runs on 6 six volt batteries which isn't much more than lots of people have in their RV.
Re: My one LD gripe Reply #29 – July 16, 2018, 01:22:12 pm Quote from: Sawyer - July 16, 2018, 11:47:03 amI think he meant an option to switch to electric with your water heater when you are hooked up but as someone else pointed out this might overwhelm the 30amp LD system.As far as propane verses electricity in boodocking though yeah propane is hands down winner. In my off grid home we have propane water heater, refrigerator, freezer and stove. That really only leaves lights and television and charging phones, computers etc. Our entire house runs on 6 six volt batteries which isn't much more than lots of people have in their RV.Exactly - if the unit is the same size and the only other requirement is to run power to it I think it would be a nice option to have. From just reading alone I can see how propane is the hands down winner for boondocking but if I were plugged in I think it would be nice to have the option to heat water electrically also.
Re: My one LD gripe Reply #30 – July 16, 2018, 01:39:25 pm "I wonder if LD not wanting to put in an electric / gas water heater might have something to do with the 30 Amp limitation on the hookup."To clarify the situation keep this in mind, the combo LP/Electric WH is powered up the minute you connect to shore power and will remain so until you disconnect. No need to be concerned with "did I forget to turn on the WH?"Then, for those times when you do not have full hookups you then fall back to the use of LP. How simple is that.And, I can vouch for the 30amp overload idea, in my previous HR TT I had the combo unit and there was zero problems with the 30a circuitry. Apparently it doesn't draw that much current. 1 Likes
Re: My one LD gripe Reply #31 – July 16, 2018, 01:44:02 pm Quote from: Larry W - July 16, 2018, 11:29:29 amWhat's going to power the water heater and the interior heating ? More batterie and panels?Funny you should ask. Here is an early prototype proof-of-concept (TRL 4) that we have been working on with LD for some time. These COTS panels were for demonstration purposes only to a NASA Independent Review Board.Now I know we all love LD paint quality but here is a little secret - they next version of LD paint will use a combination of nanorods and a liquid plastic semiconductor along with a selenium interlayer to form a spray on high-efficiency multi-junction solar cell. Basically, a commercialized photovoltaic paint turning the entire surface of the vehicle into a solar panel.The internal appliances with use inductive coupling for power whereas the entire vehicle can also enjoy far-field power beaming phased array at 6.78 MHz for driving purposes. Of course, this has all been a joke 3 Likes
Re: My one LD gripe Reply #32 – July 16, 2018, 01:49:20 pm Quote from: Renegade242 - July 16, 2018, 01:22:12 pmExactly - if the unit is the same size and the only other requirement is to run power to it I think it would be a nice option to have. From just reading alone I can see how propane is the hands down winner for boondocking but if I were plugged in I think it would be nice to have the option to heat water electrically also.Guess it depends on how much hot water you use daily.Our water heater is on less than a hour a day, using a minimal amount of propane.Propane is the cheapest part of operating an RV, the monetary outlay is small compared to fuel and camping fees.The added power requirement an electric water heater, 1000-1400 watts, is going to severely overtax the 30-amp service, especially in the summer time when the A/C is normally used. Using it would require a higher degree of conscious power management, such as turning the A/C off, when heating water. Most folks either don't want to mess with doing this or don't understand the basics of their power usage, many times tripping the circuits breakers.For a properly functioning RV, with all the available electrical gadgets, it should have 50-amp service right from the Factory.50-amp service is not common in most government campgrounds, primarily found in private RV parks.LDs were designed primarily as boondocking RVs, not RV resort queens.Larry
Re: My one LD gripe Reply #33 – July 16, 2018, 02:06:09 pm Earthroamer has some fairly well thought out/efficient electrical systems. AC and all systems designed to operate from solar/idling power....of course they also start at 500k. My father has a rockwood travel trainer with 30 amp service that includes an electric/gas water heater....the electric element only maintains water temperature and when it needs a boost the gas cycles still...that being said I’m guessing the current draw isn’t super high to avoid overloading the shore power. Truth be told when I’m camping especially Boondocking it’s isually so warm id never think of burning propane for warm water....colder the water the better I conserve it!!
Re: My one LD gripe Reply #34 – July 16, 2018, 02:09:24 pm Quote from: Larry W - July 16, 2018, 01:49:20 pmGuess it depends on how much hot water you use daily.Our water heater is on less than a hour a day, using a minimal amount of propane.Propane is the cheapest part of operating an RV, the monetary outlay is small compared to fuel and camping fees.The added power requirement an electric water heater, 1000-1400 watts, is going to severely overtax the 30-amp service, especially in the summer time when the A/C is normally used. Using it would require a higher degree of conscious power management, such as turning the A/C off, when heating water. Most folks either don't want to mess with doing this or don't understand the basics of their power usage, many times tripping the circuits breakers.For a properly functioning RV, with all the available electrical gadgets, it should have 50-amp service right from the Factory.50-amp service is not common in most government campgrounds, primarily found in private RV parks.LDs were designed primarily as boondocking RVs, not RV resort queens.LarryLDs were designed primarily as boondocking RVs, not RV resort queens.Folks forget that and also forget that they were and still are basically a "warmer weather" RV manufacturer. Until the event of the Internet when they began to get nationwide publicity via blogs and other reviews, one rarely saw an LD outside of SoCal.Chris
Re: My one LD gripe Reply #35 – July 16, 2018, 02:48:15 pm Quote from: Chris Horst - July 16, 2018, 02:09:24 pmLDs were designed primarily as boondocking RVs, not RV resort queens.Folks forget that and also forget that they were and still are basically a "warmer weather" RV manufacturer. Until the event of the Internet when they began to get nationwide publicity via blogs and other reviews, one rarely saw an LD outside of SoCal.ChrisThat's probably a good point and I notice even in this forum there is a disproportional number of Californians. The small company was probably geared toward a local market base and never anticipated that they would gain a cult status nation wide.Also a good point that they are primarily boondocking or small state park type no hookup rigs. Somewhere between camping and glamping.
Re: My one LD gripe Reply #36 – July 16, 2018, 05:28:26 pm "Also a good point that they are primarily boondocking or small state park type no hookup rigs. Somewhere between camping and glamping."-----In my experience, Lazy Daze rigs of all vintages and owners, also of all vintages, are all over the lot in preferred camping and traveling styles; there is no "one size fits all" and no specific limitations to where, when, and how one can go, provided one uses common sense and makes thorough preparations and has appropriate equipment for weather and services needed. Some owners want hookups and limit their travels to locations and facilities where those are available, whether they be RV parks or "serviced site" campgrounds . Some balance their stays between hook-up sites in campgrounds and RV parks and dry camping and/or boondocking. And, a few may never have hooked up to a pedestal for the entire time they've had an LD. I agree that an LD is not well-insulated, particularly older models before LD went to the more efficient block foam insulation rather than stuffing a few wisps of fiberglass batt between the studs, and the large windows in most models exacerbate this problem. It's true that LDs are not built for extremes of weather, but there are steps to be taken to improve comfort in very hot and cold conditions, the first of which, IMO, is to avoid them if possible! Beyond that, insulating the vents, closing off the vent in the cab, using a cab drape, covering the windshield (and the windows; some use Reflectix), installing a Wave catalytic heater, installing 12V fans, and a few other "climate control" adjustments are pretty widely practiced by LD owners. For almost whatever "camp" and travel style one prefers, a versatile LD can do the job if properly outfitted. 1 Likes
Re: My one LD gripe Reply #37 – July 16, 2018, 07:40:29 pm I've heard snow makes a good insulator. 4 Likes
Re: My one LD gripe Reply #38 – July 16, 2018, 08:26:33 pm Quote from: HiLola - July 16, 2018, 07:40:29 pmI've heard snow makes a good insulator.Snow makes a fantastic insulator when it is -35° and you are fortunate enough to be enjoying Level C Navy SERE school up in western Maine near the Canadian boarder. Seriously, it's great stuff! 2 Likes
Re: My one LD gripe Reply #40 – July 17, 2018, 02:42:31 am Quote from: HiLola - July 17, 2018, 12:16:23 amIs that you, Chet?Negative. I completed the school years ago when they were no publicly available pictures and the specifics of the school were somewhat mythical and very secretive in nature.I did construct a snow cave during the survival and evasion phases. Of course my sleeping bag became wet due to melting snow pooling down near my hip area. It was a cotton bag with goose down which froze while evading during the day. I would unroll it, break up the ice, and slip myself into it so I could melt the ice and freeze for a few hours. Quite pleasant. Early on I debated with the senior instructor whether snow shoes were actually necessary since I grew up in the Great Lakes region and saw 100+ inches of snow annually. He said I could do what I wanted so I stepped off of my shoes and became stuck in snow that was belly deep. We all needed a good laugh anyway. It was a very good school and I still have my patch and certificate of graduation.For anyone that attended the school this will bring back some wonderful memories...Rudyard Kipling - Infantry Columns
Re: My one LD gripe Reply #41 – July 17, 2018, 08:54:09 am Quote from: JCT - July 16, 2018, 05:28:26 pm"Also a good point that they are primarily boondocking or small state park type no hookup rigs. Somewhere between camping and glamping."-----In my experience, Lazy Daze rigs of all vintages and owners, also of all vintages, are all over the lot in preferred camping and traveling styles; there is no "one size fits all" and no specific limitations to where, when, and how one can go, provided one uses common sense and makes thorough preparations and has appropriate equipment for weather and services needed. Some owners want hookups and limit their travels to locations and facilities where those are available, whether they be RV parks or "serviced site" campgrounds . Some balance their stays between hook-up sites in campgrounds and RV parks and dry camping and/or boondocking. And, a few may never have hooked up to a pedestal for the entire time they've had an LD. I agree that an LD is not well-insulated, particularly older models before LD went to the more efficient block foam insulation rather than stuffing a few wisps of fiberglass batt between the studs, and the large windows in most models exacerbate this problem. It's true that LDs are not built for extremes of weather, but there are steps to be taken to improve comfort in very hot and cold conditions, the first of which, IMO, is to avoid them if possible! Beyond that, insulating the vents, closing off the vent in the cab, using a cab drape, covering the windshield (and the windows; some use Reflectix), installing a Wave catalytic heater, installing 12V fans, and a few other "climate control" adjustments are pretty widely practiced by LD owners. For almost whatever "camp" and travel style one prefers, a versatile LD can do the job if properly outfitted. I'm surprised to hear they are not well insulated. Mine seems to stay pretty cool inside even sitting out in the hot sun that would have cooked me out of my old camper.
Re: My one LD gripe Reply #42 – July 17, 2018, 08:58:43 am Quote from: HiLola - July 16, 2018, 07:40:29 pmI've heard snow makes a good insulator.Interesting picture because I'm going to store my LD in town this winter so I can get it out for an early spring vacation and it won't be under a roof. My concern was how much weight from snow the overhang could withstand. Apparently quite a bit assuming that LD in the pic sustained no damage.
Re: My one LD gripe Reply #43 – July 17, 2018, 10:49:09 am Quote from: Sawyer - July 17, 2018, 08:58:43 amInteresting picture because I'm going to store my LD in town this winter so I can get it out for an early spring vacation and it won't be under a roof. My concern was how much weight from snow the overhang could withstand. Apparently quite a bit assuming that LD in the pic sustained no damage.Well, I grew up in Erie, PA where this past Christmas we received 5' of snow over the span of 2-3 days. With the weight of snow ranging from ten to twenty pounds per cubic foot we can see the huge difference between light fluffy snow and wet heavy snow. As you might imagine, the weight of normal snow is right about in middle at fifteen pounds per cubic foot.Let's imagine a 27' LD with one foot of snow on the roof. 26.50 ft x 8.25 ft x 1.00 ft = ~219 ft³15 lb/ft³ x ~219 ft³ = 3,285 lbAnd keep in mind that is only one foot of "normal" snow. Then again it is evenly distributed.Of course, you could knock 10-15% off of that number since the 26.50 ft is the bumper-to-bumper length and does not represent the actual length of the roof. Or, you can just leave that extra bit in there as a safety margin. With that being said I can't imagine being up on the roof for the purpose of removing snow. Maybe a nice ladder with the footprint perpendicular to the longitudinal axis of the LD and using a roof rake to pull off the load?
Re: My one LD gripe Reply #44 – July 17, 2018, 01:15:33 pm Quote from: Renegade242 - July 16, 2018, 01:44:02 pmFunny you should ask. Here is an early prototype proof-of-concept (TRL 4) that we have been working on with LD for some time. These COTS panels were for demonstration purposes only to a NASA Independent Review Board.Now I know we all love LD paint quality but here is a little secret - they next version of LD paint will use a combination of nanorods and a liquid plastic semiconductor along with a selenium interlayer to form a spray on high-efficiency multi-junction solar cell. Basically, a commercialized photovoltaic paint turning the entire surface of the vehicle into a solar panel.The internal appliances with use inductive coupling for power whereas the entire vehicle can also enjoy far-field power beaming phased array at 6.78 MHz for driving purposes. Of course, this has all been a joke This reminds me of Ausia's LD. Which I've been trying unsuccessfully for the last 20 minutes or so to post a photo of, but failed miserably. Here, have a link. Imgur: The magic of the Internet
Re: My one LD gripe Reply #45 – July 17, 2018, 03:47:50 pm Quote from: squeakytiki - July 17, 2018, 01:15:33 pmThis reminds me of Ausia's LD. Which I've been trying unsuccessfully for the last 20 minutes or so to post a photo of, but failed miserably. Here, have a link. Imgur: The magic of the InternetAh, the Panda LD.See if you can find her blog on how she decorated her LD. It's very, ah, unique.Larry
Re: My one LD gripe Reply #46 – July 17, 2018, 05:04:41 pm Quote from: squeakytiki - July 17, 2018, 01:15:33 pmThis reminds me of Ausia's LD. Which I've been trying unsuccessfully for the last 20 minutes or so to post a photo of, but failed miserably. Here, have a link. Imgur: The magic of the InternetOh my gosh - now that is a very unique vehicle!!!Tip - when trying to post a direct link to the image on Imgur do the following:1) Right <click> on image2) Select <view image>3) <Copy> web address of image from address bar4) Under "Post Reply" on this forum click <insert image>5) Right <click> and paste image address
Re: My one LD gripe Reply #47 – July 18, 2018, 04:56:08 am Quote from: Renegade242 - July 17, 2018, 05:04:41 pmOh my gosh - now that is a very unique vehicle!!!Tip - when trying to post a direct link to the image on Imgur do the following:1) Right <click> on image2) Select <view image>3) <Copy> web address of image from address bar4) Under "Post Reply" on this forum click <insert image>5) Right <click> and paste image addressI tried that, but when I previewed the comment I didn't get the picture, I got the coding showing up instead.
Re: My one LD gripe Reply #48 – July 18, 2018, 05:00:01 am Quote from: Larry W - July 17, 2018, 03:47:50 pmAh, the Panda LD.See if you can find her blog on how she decorated her LD. It's very, ah, unique.Larry Too much black for me, but taste is so subjective. I know others here won't be a fan of the tiki theme I'm going with for my interior either. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw1ISW6geqY&list=PLEyLkKywZHoSwFCfNUafpVsDegkrYQMU0&index=3
Re: My one LD gripe Reply #49 – July 18, 2018, 08:03:10 am Quote from: JCT - July 16, 2018, 05:28:26 pm"Also a good point that they are primarily boondocking or small state park type no hookup rigs. Somewhere between camping and glamping."-----In my experience, Lazy Daze rigs of all vintages and owners, also of all vintages, are all over the lot in preferred camping and traveling styles; there is no "one size fits all" and no specific limitations to where, when, and how one can go, provided one uses common sense and makes thorough preparations and has appropriate equipment for weather and services needed. Agreed that an LD can fit right in with the glamper crowd but what sold me on it for boondocking or small state or BLM type campgrounds with no hookups is the large holding tanks, black, grey and fresh.
Topic: My one LD gripe (Read 844 times)
previous topic - next topic
Topic: My one LD gripe (Read 844 times)
previous topic - next topic