Is It Any Wonder... July 15, 2018, 01:53:18 pm Is it any wonder that we have so few real gripes about Lazy Daze build quality?My brother purchased a 10 year old Jayco Greyhawk Class C. He’s new to the Class C world having owned a Pop-Up TT and a Fifth Wheel. He has been making several upgrades and modifications to his Jayco. Recently he asked about LD Air Suspension since his is not functioning correctly. Looking at YouTube revealed some interesting details about Jayco Class C’s. It also revealed why the “Gripe Rate” about some SOB’s is so high.https://youtu.be/jXMJrRQ3SVkHere is a Jayco TT being completely manufactured in 7 hours. 35 a day. 🙀The spokesperson is apparently pleased by these numbers. Watching the frantic pace of the factory workers is shocking. I doubt that this pace is the norm at the Mothership. Thank goodness for that. No complaints here. Kent 3 Likes
Re: Is It Any Wonder... Reply #1 – July 15, 2018, 02:48:05 pm That was scary! Thanks for sharing that video, makes waiting for your LD easier to stand knowing it’s not a rush job. 🚐 1 Likes
Re: Is It Any Wonder... Reply #2 – July 15, 2018, 03:47:14 pm Assembly line vs craftsmanship.Oh decisions, decisions. Toyota assembly line has a big red stop button that any worker can hit when they see a defect. Did I miss seeing it on the Jayco line? 1 Likes
Re: Is It Any Wonder... Reply #3 – July 15, 2018, 03:49:29 pm Quote from: Kent Heckethorn - July 15, 2018, 01:53:18 pmIs it any wonder that we have so few real gripes about Lazy Daze build quality?My brother purchased a 10 year old Jayco Greyhawk Class C. He’s new to the Class C world having owned a Pop-Up TT and a Fifth Wheel. He has been making several upgrades and modifications to his Jayco. Recently he asked about LD Air Suspension since his is not functioning correctly. Looking at YouTube revealed some interesting details about Jayco Class C’s. It also revealed why the “Gripe Rate” about some SOB’s is so high.https://youtu.be/jXMJrRQ3SVkHere is a Jayco TT being completely manufactured in 7 hours. 35 a day. 🙀The spokesperson is apparently pleased by these numbers. Watching the frantic pace of the factory workers is shocking. I doubt that this pace is the norm at the Mothership. Thank goodness for that. No complaints here. KentI did lots of research before buying my twenty years old LD and it was obvious the big brands were complete crap in comparison. The old ones I looked at were ready for the junk yard and the new ones were falling apart on the show room floor. You definitely get what you pay for with the LD. 1 Likes
Re: Is It Any Wonder... Reply #4 – July 15, 2018, 03:59:16 pm It amazes me that Jayco would put that video out thinking it would make somebody want to buy one. Those guys are at a dead run and are obviously about production and quantity at the price of quality. 1 Likes
Re: Is It Any Wonder... Reply #5 – July 15, 2018, 04:19:28 pm Jayco was bought by Thor Industries in 2016; Thor and Forest River control about 80% of RV production in the US. According to many sources, build quality is not a particular hallmark of any of their brands. 1 Likes
Re: Is It Any Wonder... Reply #6 – July 15, 2018, 04:32:06 pm My brother has not had a chance to enjoy his nu2him Jayco for whatever reason. Soon enough though.We correspond via IMO almost daily and I share a lot of YouTube finds with him. This video will not be one of them. I’d rather he lived the dream...Kent 2 Likes
Re: Is It Any Wonder... Reply #7 – July 15, 2018, 05:17:06 pm I remember reading somewhere that a lot of the guys building these SOB's are not working for an hourly wage, instead they are being paid at piece rate. If that's truly the case then they literally have no incentive at all to slow down and do a better job. Or stop the line when a problem appears. 1 Likes
Re: Is It Any Wonder... Reply #8 – July 15, 2018, 08:25:27 pm I have a 2005 Class C Jayco Greyhawk 24SS I bought used about 5 years ago, and have no complaints about it's build quality; however, it is a much different structure than the travel trailers in the video. The walls and roof have an aluminum frame, with plywood panels bonded to foam insulation. I have no idea of the intended purpose of the video, and I have never seen anything like it in the 5 or so tours I've taken in RV manufacturing plants. Clearly, it was not intended for prospective customers. 1 Likes
Re: Is It Any Wonder... Reply #9 – July 15, 2018, 08:57:33 pm Probably intended for investors and board members. 2 Likes
Re: Is It Any Wonder... Reply #10 – July 15, 2018, 09:46:37 pm Perhaps bean counters and time management departments. 🧐 That being said this is not the first Thor project I’ve seen that demonstrates the rapid pace of their TT and Class A production lines. Even their Airstream video shows similar “time management” and labor skills. The topic of SOB production has been addressed before and many of their customer base have posted their arms length list of “fix-it’s” that are required to make things right after the initial purchase.The jist here is that as LD owners and wanna-be’s we understand that quality takes time. Craftsmanship is a skill best suited to details and not stop watches. Those of us who have been bidding our time while waiting for the Mothership to complete our rigs can appreciate the time and skill that goes into every loving LD produced. We often chat about things that have worn out or we wish the factory would do differently but that’s okay. That’s why we’re here and why we keep coming back for more insight and encouragement.All things considered, I wouldn’t have it any other way. Kent 2 Likes
Re: Is It Any Wonder... Reply #11 – July 15, 2018, 10:15:45 pm I can’t imagine a career of having to work at that “fire drill” speed for a whole shift, week, month.Yes, I had to work at that speed or faster in the TV/Movie business, but then we would get a break when the camera was rolling, shooting the actors/action. Seems like a great recipie to get hurt doing repetitive motions, especially when the workers get tired. I hope the best for them and the familys they support 🙏🏼👍🐯
Re: Is It Any Wonder... Reply #12 – July 15, 2018, 10:17:25 pm Quote from: Tiger (Clark) - July 15, 2018, 10:15:45 pmI can’t imagine a career of having to work at that “fire drill” speed for a whole shift, week, month.Yes, I had to work at that speed or faster in the TV/Movie business, but then we would get a break when the camera was rolling, shooting the actors/action. Seems like a great recipie to get hurt doing repetitive motions, especially when the workers get tired. I hope the best for them and the familys they support 🙏🏼👍🐯I've heard there is a lot of burnout in Elkhart. Now I know why!
Re: Is It Any Wonder... Reply #13 – July 16, 2018, 12:06:53 am I have not heard from anyone although I am guessing no one have ever viewed the craftsman at LD running around and slapping parts together like that before. Wow, now I understand why the SOB units I have examined left me shaking my head.
Re: Is It Any Wonder... Reply #14 – July 16, 2018, 09:22:25 am I have no issue with the speed of construction. My concern is I didn't see any quality assurance stations or concern. I really don't understand why not. In my business (<smile> before I retired> we always said "doing it right the first time is many many times cheaper then repeating it the second time".
Re: Is It Any Wonder... Reply #15 – July 16, 2018, 10:41:34 am "...no one have ever viewed the craftsman at LD running around and slapping parts together like that..."Don't know if they still give tours of the work floor but I can assure you that there is no slap/dash going on, everything is considered and methodical!
Re: Is It Any Wonder... Reply #16 – July 16, 2018, 01:52:32 pm Quote from: colddog - July 16, 2018, 09:22:25 amIn my business (<smile> before I retired> we always said "doing it right the first time is many many times cheaper then repeating it the second time".Das Billige ist immer das Teuerste. 3 Likes
Re: Is It Any Wonder... Reply #17 – July 16, 2018, 05:53:26 pm QuoteDas Billige ist immer das Teuerste.andererseits (on the other hand) there is Consulting 1 Likes
Re: Is It Any Wonder... Reply #18 – July 16, 2018, 07:50:47 pm Quote from: Renegade242 - July 16, 2018, 01:52:32 pmDas Billige ist immer das Teuerste.For those who are German-challenged: The cheapest (way) is always the most expensive.Chris 3 Likes
Re: Is It Any Wonder... Reply #19 – July 16, 2018, 08:55:09 pm "For those who are German-challenged:..."Is it any wonder that, with a surname like Horst, there has to be a Kraut attached! 1 Likes
Re: Is It Any Wonder... Reply #20 – July 16, 2018, 11:41:41 pm Quote from: Lazy Bones - July 16, 2018, 08:55:09 pmIs it any wonder that, with a surname like Horst, there has to be a Kraut attached! he said sauerly 1 Likes
Re: Is It Any Wonder... Reply #21 – July 17, 2018, 12:26:55 am For all you (us) Germans, if you are ever in Tehachapi, I'd love to treat you to a strudel (and coffee, of course!):Authentic German Bakery, Tehachapi, CA - Kohnen’s Country Bakery 3 Likes
Re: Is It Any Wonder... Reply #22 – July 17, 2018, 09:54:12 am While exploring Austria on a motorcycle a few years ago, I admitted to one of our German traveling companions that I had never eaten strudel. In fact, I didn't even know exactly what it was.He was so shocked, I thought he was going to choke on his spit and pass out. He insisted that we change our route and visit one of his favorite bakeries and enjoy strudel and great black coffee. I liked it. 2 Likes
Re: Is It Any Wonder... Reply #23 – July 17, 2018, 10:13:40 am So if the siding metal is installed from the top course downward, what's the water seal system? No caulking was visible in that step. I suppose there could be a convoluted folded joint that snaps together to form a seal, but I've never looked at trailer siding up close.The window scene also showed no visible caulking, though I suppose it would be pre-applied before window is offered up.The hitch wiring guy gives a pretty good tug on the harness, too. His compensation must be partially based on how little wire he uses.I should search the site for skinless LD shots (I know I've seen a few) to give me a better idea of what's in there, and system routing.
Re: Is It Any Wonder... Reply #24 – July 17, 2018, 10:37:30 am A friend of mine recently purchased a Jayco TT and discovered it to be full of rot. He has spent the last month attempting to rebuild it. The metal siding has a half inch of hook overlap where it is hung. It is stapled on the ends (assuming similar to lazy daze aluminum siding). We don’t see caulk being applied because it isn’t!! Sob’s use a malleable “waterproof” to putty packed along the corners and then a metal strip with a rubber gasket protecting the screws is fastened down over the seams. This is a hopeless way to seal the joint as once the putty flexes and raises up it stays in place causing voids for water to leak. Imagine trying to seal camper corners with essentially play-doh. As he put the trailer back together he bought more putty and reapplied like the factory had and I shook my head...proper sealing would me messy and expensive but this dry putty sealant the travel trailers use is a joke. As far as the windows go they are simply installed with a flexible gasket, no actual sealant is used. In short they roll out of the factory with little to no curing sealant anywhere. Anyone that has ever pushed the metal corrugated side of a travel trailer knows how flexible the siding is and this is why they ALWAYS leak. Furthermore the roof access ladder was supported by nothing but a 2x2 fir liner stapled to the wall studs. This is why anytime someone climbs on the travel trailer the ladder looks like it’s about to tear off the wall. This being said, I would love to see the supports for the lazy daze roof access ladder before the skin is applied to the coach. Seems my ladder is fairy stout but it would be reassuring to see the framework actually supporting it. 1 Likes
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