Are End Caps an Issue? June 17, 2018, 09:48:23 pm I have read several end cap issues with cracking and separating.* Is that is a common issue with LD?* Would the cold/ heat extremes in the northeast make LD end caps more prone to cracking? * Is there any maintenance that could prevent/ minimize it?Love LD 💕 but want to be fully aware of what I am getting into. Our LD choice is the 31 IB or IB because we want a regular bed. Thanks for your feedback!Ron Sarzynski
Re: Are End Caps and Issue? Reply #1 – June 17, 2018, 11:27:19 pm Ron,Is there a rhyme or reason for an 18 year old RB to have minor issues with the end caps and a 3 year old RB to have a fracture such as the one ours has had? Who knows?We live in So Cal and travel most of the time to very temperate climates. No huge shifts in temperatures to speak of. My feeling is that the plastics manufacturing process varies from batch to batch and you just never know what can happen.I wouldn’t let this issue whether common or not sway you from purchasing a LD. Sometimes things are just the luck of the draw and for all the recent chat about the end caps Lazy Daze Motorhomes are at the top of the tier for Class C’s and for my money I’d purchase another in a heartbeat although I fully expect ours to outlive me. End caps and all.Just sayin’Kent 2 Likes
Re: Are End Caps and Issue? Reply #2 – June 18, 2018, 06:08:28 am Ron-End caps, roof joints and window caulking- spots on an LD that should have regular inspection and repair, as needed. It comes with having a wood structure under that tough aircraft-aluminum skin.My observation is that cracking seems to start around screw heads, which implies these potential causes:1) There is an unsupported gap between the back of the end cap and the wood structure before the screw is tightened2) The screw holes are just a bit small3) The end cap has become brittle with ageAs the coach goes down the road, all the "house" twisting gets concentrated at the corners. A long, firm contact between the wood structure and the end caps minimizes cracking stress. On the other hand, point contact under screw heads almost guarantees cracking at the screw holes, sooner or later.As far as I know, there are no owner-maintenance tasks that would prevent or minimize end-cap cracking. I don't think New England weather would be any worse on end caps than anywhere else.Our mid-bath came to us (from Arizona to New England) with cracked end caps. We had a local auto body shop replace them. They adjusted the fit of the end caps, so that the double-sided tape and stainless steel screws had the best chance of keeping the caps in place, without cracks, for as long as possible. They did a beautiful job matching the paint and pin-striping, too.I miss our simple, reliable and well-made LD. If we hadn't changed our camping style to less-driving-more-sitting we'd probably still have it.Mark H 2 Likes
Re: Are End Caps and Issue? Reply #3 – June 18, 2018, 07:46:17 am Quote from: Sarz272000 - June 17, 2018, 09:48:23 pmI have read several end cap issues with cracking and separating.* Is that is a common issue with LD?* Would the cold/ heat extremes in the northeast make LD end caps more prone to cracking? * Is there any maintenance that could prevent/ minimize it?Love LD 💕 but want to be fully aware of what I am getting into. Our LD choice is the 31 IB or IB because we want a regular bed. Thanks for your feedback!Ron SarzynskiI researched over a year on my computer and attended multiple RV shows to look at RVs before I very recently bought my LD. Delamination is the big issue on the exterior of all the fibreglass models and the interior in all the mass production models is a complete joke. I saw brand new RVs with trim coming off inside and delamination outside. Finally I narrowed my choice to LD, Phoenix cruiser, Born Free or coach House. What sold me on LD was the large and numerous windows. I wanted as small as coach as I could get and in my 23.5 front lounge I don't feel at all claustrophobic. The dark windows are nice because even in a campground you can leave the shades up and see out but others can't see in.I'll admit the end cap issue caught me a bit off guard and is a concern that I had not anticipated. When transitioning from 20 years with a slide in camper to a bigger class C I bought a 1994 27 ft Holiday rambler trailer that ended up being too long to fit into many campsites so I didn't own it long. It was also aluminium siding but had aluminium framing too. IMO it was better built than the LD with aluminum corners that were riveted on instead of glued. The recent post by someone with these caps lifting has me wondering if it's just a matter of time until the glue fails with age and mine suddenly start exploding too. So far I just have a few screw stress cracks and some very minor separation at the very bottom of the passenger side front end cap which I sealed yesterday for a trip to the Oregon coast in the near future. I installed rubber washers on the screws over cracked areas to relieve pressure and will keep a close eye on those. All in all I feel the LD is a great rig and I'm sure they all have their issues with age. The one piece Fibreglass Coach House can ripple badly from being in heat and the Born Free seems to develop roof leaks from what I've read. I don't think there's any perfect choice when you make your decision and I was where you are just a short time ago. It is a big decision, good luck. 2 Likes
Re: Are End Caps an Issue? Reply #4 – June 18, 2018, 11:34:18 am SawyerThanks for the input. I was curious what your thoughts were in the Phoenix Cruiser? I like them also but my head hits the a/c. The fake leather seats peel. Starting in 2018 they use real leather so that issue goes away. Ron
Re: Are End Caps an Issue? Reply #5 – June 18, 2018, 01:29:02 pm I was tempted by both the Born Free and the Phoenix Cruiser, in addition to the LD.At 6'5" the Phoenix Cruiser was simply too short inside. Same with the E450 based Born Free models. The only Born Free models that are tall enough are the F550 based models, but they are far beyond my limited means .The Lazy Daze is the best compromise for us. I still hit the ceiling AC, but, I'll learn with time. Overall, it has been a great choice. It is simple, reliable, comfortable, and the rear windows and couches in our 27MB have been a real pleasure. Harold 1 Likes
Re: Are End Caps an Issue? Reply #6 – June 18, 2018, 03:51:59 pm Quote from: Sarz272000 - June 18, 2018, 11:34:18 amSawyerThanks for the input. I was curious what your thoughts were in the Phoenix Cruiser? I like them also but my head hits the a/c. The fake leather seats peel. Starting in 2018 they use real leather so that issue goes away. RonI think the Phoenix cruisers are excellent and as good or better than the LD quality wise but for me the LD wins hands down with all the windows. The Phoenix cruisers feels like sitting in a coffin to me. No need to rush that, it's close enough as it is 3 Likes
Re: Are End Caps an Issue? Reply #7 – June 18, 2018, 09:49:24 pm An acceptable repair of horizontal cracks can be made with 3M clear hood tape.It is designed for exterior use and a good cure for the colored sections where a white sealant would show.Amazon.com: VViViD 3M Scotchgard Clear Hood and Trunk Edge Sealer Paint...You may need to replace it every five years or so, but it isn't expensive.The tape has a lot of uses, protection where wear may occur.Lifting end caps are not the end of the world, almost all are repairable unless they have been torn or badly distorted, due to an impact..Repairing them is a lot easier than replacing, and cheaper too since repainting isn't necessary. The Mothership charges a lot for replacing them, the paint is very expensive.Larry 3 Likes As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: Are End Caps an Issue? Reply #8 – June 19, 2018, 09:30:43 am Quote from: Larry W - June 18, 2018, 09:49:24 pmAn acceptable repair of horizontal cracks can be made with 3M clear hood tape.It is designed for exterior use and a good cure for the colored sections where a white sealant would show.Amazon.com: VViViD 3M Scotchgard Clear Hood and Trunk Edge Sealer Paint...You may need to replace it every five years or so, but it isn't expensive.The tape has a lot of uses, protection where wear may occur. I do wonder though in the top front corners that get so much stress as you said in another thread if it might not be a good idea to remove the screws and install rubber washers to spread the stress points out a bit before they crack as I did on mine that had some very small cracks on passenger side. Lifting end caps are not the end of the world, almost all are repairable unless they have been torn or badly distorted, due to an impact..Repairing them is a lot easier than replacing, and cheaper too since repainting isn't necessary. The Mothership charges a lot for replacing them, the paint is very expensive.LarrySounds like something to closely monitor and stay on top of. Mine seem to be in very good condition as of now and show no sign of repairs being made but they are something I'm going to look at constantly. There doesn't seem to be any preventative proactive solution to this issue so I guess it's all I can do. As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: Are End Caps an Issue? Reply #9 – June 19, 2018, 04:21:49 pm Thanks for the info on this topic. It is something I had not considered. Here in Michigan we have some of the worst roads around. Patched potholes on top of patched potholes. They started taxing us to death to repair them put it will be a long time to make a dent. I cringe thinking about driving an awesome LD in these roads. It would not deserve that treatment. The shake, rattle and roll it would take would highly increase the likelihood of end cap problems, not to mention suspension issues. For now we will put our LD on hold. Trying to find an alternative will be difficult. PC is too short inside, CH and BF too expensive. Dynamax has a nice 32 foot gas rv... Whatever it is it will not be the same as a LD. Ron Sarzynski
Re: Are End Caps an Issue? Reply #10 – June 19, 2018, 05:12:00 pm "Here in Michigan we have some of the worst roads around. Patched potholes on top of patched potholes. They started taxing us to death to repair them put it will be a long time to make a dent. I cringe thinking about driving an awesome LD in these roads. It would not deserve that treatment. The shake, rattle and roll it would take would highly increase the likelihood of end cap problems, not to mention suspension issues. For now we will put our LD on hold."----I agree that MI has some pretty awful road surfaces, but it's hardly alone! Many states' freeways, highways, and roads are cracked, broken, pot-holed, crumbling, and in all-around dismal condition! It's true that pounding from lousy roads takes a toll on a rig, but if one chooses to drive an RV, the "shake, rattle, and roll", even on halfway decent road surfaces, is unavoidable! And, the "earthquake" factor is present even on roads that are well-maintained.Many LD owners live and travel in California; I don't think that I'm exaggerating when I say that many of us who drive anything on our state's many dysfunctional road surfaces regularly run through our personal repertoire of very colorful language, likely with frequent repetitions and creative variations. But, how else can one "goseedo"?I understand the reluctance to subject a nice vehicle to "road battering", but giving up your search for an LD may be a "throwing the baby out with the bath water" move.As ever, YMMV. 2 Likes
Re: Are End Caps an Issue? Reply #11 – June 19, 2018, 05:21:56 pm I agree with Joan (as always 😉). Many of us have driven some mighty thumping roads over many years without any significant caps problems. If a Lazy Daze is otherwise your first choice, I sure wouldn’t let this discussion deter you. — Jon 1 Likes
Re: Are End Caps an Issue? Reply #12 – June 19, 2018, 05:23:18 pm Ron, We also looked at the Dynamax, but the diesel. I was shocked to see the trivial OCCC , less than 1000lb. Especially considering that they boast a 10,000lb tow capacity. The tongue weight alone on a 10,000lb trailer will add 1,000lb of weight to the chasis. What do you do? It is now overloaded. The salesman said that the yellow OCCC tag was a typo. Liar, liar, pants on fire!Our 2024 LD 27MB has closer to 2000lb OCCC.And in addition, our end caps are perfect.Good luck with your search. Every RV will be a compromise.Harold 1 Likes
Re: Are End Caps an Issue? Reply #13 – June 19, 2018, 05:33:02 pm Hi Ron. The end caps just aren't that big of a problem. It's more of an age thing that the end caps get brittle. Years of exposure to the ozone, smog, and sunlight, along with high average temperatures. I don't know of any other coaches in the Lazy Daze price range that have the type of paint LD has. That more than makes up for any cracking of end caps that might happen after the 15+ year time frame. The other brands will have equivalent or more costly repair items (Lazy Daze cost range) when 'or if' they make it to 15 years. My '99 has been in the sunlight constantly and just has small traces of cracking in the ABS material. RonB 2 Likes
Re: Are End Caps an Issue? Reply #14 – June 19, 2018, 05:38:16 pm Ron, I think if you are rejecting the LD because of a possible end cap crack, you were not really serious about it to start with.78 posts and you are not an owner. I understand due diligence, but I think you have overdone it.Just my opinion of course. 2 Likes
Re: Are End Caps an Issue? Reply #15 – June 19, 2018, 08:00:29 pm Quote from: Blueox25 - June 19, 2018, 05:23:18 pmRon, We also looked at the Dynamax, but the diesel. I was shocked to see the trivial OCCC , less than 1000lb. Especially considering that they boast a 10,000lb tow capacity. The tongue weight alone on a 10,000lb trailer will add 1,000lb of weight to the chasis. What do you do? It is now overloaded. The salesman said that the yellow OCCC tag was a typo. Liar, liar, pants on fire!Our 2024 LD 27MB has closer to 2000lb OCCC.And in addition, our end caps are perfect.Good luck with your search. Every RV will be a compromise.Harold2024 Harold? Thinking ahead are you? 1 Likes
Re: Are End Caps an Issue? Reply #16 – June 19, 2018, 09:37:16 pm Quote from: Sarz272000 - June 17, 2018, 09:48:23 pmLove LD 💕 but want to be fully aware of what I am getting into. Our LD choice is the 31 IB or IB because we want a regular bed. Hello Ron. If I may, I'd like to add my $.02 to this discussion. I've spent a stupid amount of time over the last five (5) years on SOB owner's forums to include Tiffin, Foretravel, Winnebago, Newmar, Monaco, Holiday Rambler, Airstream, and Arctic Fox (Northern Manufacturing). One of the things I've learned is that there's not a model or year of SOB that is reasonably perfect or without some flaws. Almost all of them were in excellent condition as they left the Factory but as they traveled down the road, parts broke, failed, and otherwise caused the owner's RV Pain.I've read accounts of RVers who spent a long time and an obscene amount of money chasing the flawless RV. Our Lazy Daze is among the better made RVs and with proper care and maintenance should last a long time. LD's are not perfect and they have some flaws as discussed in this Forum. In conclusion, perhaps my experience from owning a LD and from visiting these other Owner's forums will save you some time and money. Best of luck in your search and research. 2 Likes
Re: Are End Caps an Issue? Reply #17 – June 20, 2018, 08:36:01 am Quote from: Ed & Margee - June 19, 2018, 09:37:16 pmHello Ron. If I may, I'd like to add my $.02 to this discussion. I've spent a stupid amount of time over the last five (5) years on SOB owner's forums to include Tiffin, Foretravel, Winnebago, Newmar, Monaco, Holiday Rambler, Airstream, and Arctic Fox (Northern Manufacturing). One of the things I've learned is that there's not a model or year of SOB that is reasonably perfect or without some flaws. Almost all of them were in excellent condition as they left the Factory but as they traveled down the road, parts broke, failed, and otherwise caused the owner's RV Pain.I've read accounts of RVers who spent a long time and an obscene amount of money chasing the flawless RV. Our Lazy Daze is among the better made RVs and with proper care and maintenance should last a long time. LD's are not perfect and they have some flaws as discussed in this Forum. In conclusion, perhaps my experience from owning a LD and from visiting these other Owner's forums will save you some time and money. Best of luck in your search and research. I agree that all RVs have inherent issues and if you search for the perfect RV you will never find one. The end caps are an issue with LD but in the scheme of things a small one and a fixable one. 1 Likes
Re: Are End Caps an Issue? Reply #18 – June 20, 2018, 08:54:11 am Quote from: l1v3fr33ord13 - June 18, 2018, 06:08:28 amI miss our simple, reliable and well-made LD. If we hadn't changed our camping style to less-driving-more-sitting we'd probably still have it.Mark, if I may ask, what are you camping in now?
Re: Are End Caps an Issue? Reply #19 – June 20, 2018, 08:56:45 am So have the end caps always been an issue? I don't recall this as a problem in my '85 but perhaps it was just blissful ignorance on my part.
Re: Are End Caps an Issue? Reply #20 – June 20, 2018, 09:23:11 am Quote from: HiLola - June 20, 2018, 08:56:45 amSo have the end caps always been an issue? I don't recall this as a problem in my '85 but perhaps it was just blissful ignorance on my part. How old was your 85 when you sold it? I'm just curious because this seems to be an issue somewhere around the 20 year mark as the glue fails. 1 Likes
Re: Are End Caps an Issue? Reply #21 – June 20, 2018, 09:27:41 am Quote from: HiLola - June 20, 2018, 08:54:11 amMark, if I may ask, what are you camping in now?Greg,We have a 2008 Holiday Rambler Admiral, a gas 31-foot Class A, with two slides. The slides give us the extra room we wanted when staying put for months. Nice coach, and built well for it's kind and era, but not as well as an LD. It's also a bit more to handle, although we're getting better at doing so. The additional two feet of height has gotten me in a number of tangles with trees (New England roads being full of them).Thanks for asking. Now, back to your regularly-scheduled LD program...Mark H 4 Likes
Re: Are End Caps an Issue? Reply #22 – June 20, 2018, 11:19:28 am IMO, you are beating the end cap issue to death.End caps, like so many other items on our LD,. need maintenance to remain watertight.This isn't rocket science.Glue them down when they lift, keep the edges sealed. Use masking tape to control where the sealant is placed.Nicely spaced, stainless steel, sheet metal screws are used to hold the caps in place, while the adhesive cures.The horizontal cracks occur at points of stress, each LD is a little different. Combine that with end caps that are, when new, are very flexible and floppy and many times require Factory installed screws to pull them into place.Look around at your next LD GTG and notice how the factory uses sheet metal screws to secure the caps in place where the double-sided adhesive tape isn't strong enough to hold the end cap place. Every rig is a little different.Each end cap comes out of its mold just a little different than the one before. Some of them need to be coerced into place.Repairing the horizonal cracks is similar to the rear cap's seams, where the top and bottom caps meet. Both are subject to flexing and will pop out any sealant eventually . I seal the wide rear cap seams on our 2003 LD by first cleaning the gaps and then filling them with 3M 5200 Fast Cure. Once cured, the seams are covered with 2" wide strips of Eternabond.After 3-5 years, the Eternabond tape usually fails and the polyurethane pops free. There must be a lot flex at that point.Most horizontal cracks can be sealed with polyurethane, Eternabond tape or clean hood tape. Any 'cure' will be subject to flex and will fail eventually with the passage of time, so keep an eye on the cracks and renew the seals as necessary.LDs are tough rigs as long as you keep them watertight and rot free. They can take a beating...as long as you take care of the sensitive spots.Larry 3 Likes
Re: Are End Caps an Issue? Reply #23 – June 20, 2018, 11:59:28 am "IMO, you are beating the end cap issue to death. End caps, like so many other items on our LD,. need maintenance to remain watertight."----Bingo. 1 Likes
Re: Are End Caps an Issue? Reply #24 – June 20, 2018, 04:08:33 pm Quote from: Larry W - June 20, 2018, 11:19:28 amIMO, you are beating the end cap issue to death.End caps, like so many other items on our LD,. need maintenance to remain watertight.This isn't rocket science.Glue them down when they lift, keep the edges sealed. Use masking tape to control where the sealant is placed.Nicely spaced, stainless steel, sheet metal screws are used to hold the caps in place, while the adhesive cures.The horizontal cracks occur at points of stress, each LD is a little different. Combine that with end caps that are, when new, are very flexible and floppy and many times require Factory installed screws to pull them into place.Look around at your next LD GTG and notice how the factory uses sheet metal screws to secure the caps in place where the double-sided adhesive tape isn't strong enough to hold the end cap place. Every rig is a little different.Each end cap comes out of its mold just a little different than the one before. Some of them need to be coerced into place.Repairing the horizonal cracks is similar to the rear cap's seams, where the top and bottom caps meet. Both are subject to flexing and will pop out any sealant eventually . I seal the wide rear cap seams on our 2003 LD by first cleaning the gaps and then filling them with 3M 5200 Fast Cure. Once cured, the seams are covered with 2" wide strips of Eternabond.After 3-5 years, the Eternabond tape usually fails and the polyurethane pops free. There must be a lot flex at that point.Most horizontal cracks can be sealed with polyurethane, Eternabond tape or clean hood tape. Any 'cure' will be subject to flex and will fail eventually with the passage of time, so keep an eye on the cracks and renew the seals as necessary.LDs are tough rigs as long as you keep them watertight and rot free. They can take a beating...as long as you take care of the sensitive spots.LarryI think what got people including myself fired up on this is the ugly and scary pics of separation and cracking a lady in another thread put on and the fact that she said it just sort of suddenly happened all at once. My hope is nobody ever maintained these areas to keep them water tight and that's why they all started failing at the same time. I do think this is something prospective buyers should be made aware of so when they look at an LD for sale they can give extra scrutiny to these areas. I relied heavily on the following when I was looking to purchase and I didn't see anything about this particular issue.The Lazy Daze Companion: Buying an Older Model Having said that I wouldn't hesitate to buy an LD knowing what I know now but I would have looked closer at the end caps. Mine seem to be in very good shape but really I just got lucky.
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