1991 LD with 90k miles February 11, 2018, 04:02:40 pm Hi,Today I'm going to look at a 1991 22' LD model 22M. Chevy 350 engine. I've been reading through the forums and see that models before early 1990's not recommended. However, some say no pre-1990, others mention a change in early 1990s, so I'm wondering if a 1991 is considered in the "many problems" older category or the "newer" version that is less problematic.The tag on the vehicle actually says December 1990, but it's advertised as a 1991. Seller says he purchased from the original owner a few years ago and (of course) says there have been no leaks.Opinions, please. I would prefer something newer, but I really need the shortest MH possible, but one with a rear sofa or dinette, which this one has. There are very few MHs in this size category that have such a configuration.Hope to get some opinions soon! Thanks! 1 Likes
Re: 1991 LD with 90k miles Reply #1 – February 12, 2018, 12:57:07 am Most people will tell you not a good idea based on year and engine size and to keep looking. You will not be able to toad and you will have less power for climbing up hills along with other issues. So it all depends on what type of traveling you plan to do. Others on here can give you more info on why this year is not a good choice. But in the end only you know if this one is the one for you but expect to have to put some money into it. Hopefully you know what to look for on inspection. There is a list of things to check posted on this forum. I bought a 89 22 ft with a Chevy 350 2 years ago and love it, just the right size for me. Did have to put some money into it when I got it, like a brake job and new tires for road safety reasons. I did a roof reseal with a friend and replaced the escape hatch. I do not toad or travel up to high elevations as the wife has high blood pressure. 3 Likes
Re: 1991 LD with 90k miles Reply #2 – February 12, 2018, 01:58:19 am Thanks!I checked it out today. I looked for signs of water intrusion, etc. This was, by far, the best looking RV I've looked at so far. Despite it's age, it looked amazingly good. Very little rust (a few spots on the truck nose where a bit of paint had chipped), no sign of leaks, everything started up and worked on first try. The seller had put in real hardwood floors, solar panels, a rear back up monitor, stereo. The above cabin bed and area looked almost new. I was pleasantly surprised.The tires looked good, but the guy did say he has not changed them in the 3 years he's owned the RV, and that he's put 4k on them. So I would probably need to get new ones. I drove it briefly on the freeway and it drove well, though I noticed that on braking it did pull to the left. My thought is it needs alignment. If there is some known problem of which this would be indicative, I would love to hear so I can look into it further.It's also not cheap- he's asking $12500. But where I live, there has been a shortage of used RVs since the fires in N. California. The prices on used RVs also have gone up ridiculously since then. And anything worth buying goes super fast- I missed a call one Saturday about an RV posted the night before. By time I talked to the seller 2 hours later, he had already sold it. Anyway, I told the guy I want to buy it. He is going to get it smogged (passed 6 months ago, but seller has to smog before selling here in CA), and then we're going to figure out how to get it to me. He's an hour drive from me with about 12 miles of very, very windy mountain roads that I am in no way ready to drive on my first try. I get nervous driving those roads in my Corolla!As for use- this is primarily to serve as a mobile office locally. I may have to go up some hills in San Francisco, but not often. I would love to take it on a road trip, but that's not the reason for buying it. If it seems good for a road trip, i will, but for now this is just the right configuration for my needs, and appears to be in fine condition for local use. 2 Likes
Re: 1991 LD with 90k miles Reply #3 – February 12, 2018, 02:02:50 am Quote from: sfhankman - February 12, 2018, 12:57:07 am Did have to put some money into it when I got it, like a brake job and new tires for road safety reasons. I see you're also in CA- how much did you end up paying for the brake job and the tires? I assume you also have 6 wheels? 1 Likes
Re: 1991 LD with 90k miles Reply #4 – February 12, 2018, 03:44:17 am Hi MEandtheDOGS. Welcome to the fold (almost). Like a house in escrow it's not over until money changes hands. Most people here would like a better name to address you by. You really need to know the age of the tires. All tires have a date code molded into the sidewalls near the word 'DOT'. The internet will help you read the code. Pretty easy to read five tires (spare might be facing away) you can get to. You might be able to read the date code on the inside duals from under the motorhome. Up to five years old is the acceptable age, maybe six if they look really good with no cracks in the sidewalls, even wear pattern, no cuts or bruises etc. Over age 'good' looking tires can fail suddenly, and having a flat in a heavy vehicle like a motorhome isn't good! If the MH pulls left when you apply the brakes, it's probably a brake problem. Do have a mechanic look at the brakes , indeed the whole motorhome, before you agree to buy it. Problem areas can affect the value greatly in a 28 year old vehicle. I'm not sure which tag said 1990, but it's a 1990. I have a '99 (chassis) that the factory delivered in February 2000. It is still a '99. Hope this helped a little. Let us know what happens... RonB 1 Likes
Re: 1991 LD with 90k miles Reply #5 – February 12, 2018, 04:22:59 am Quote from: RonB - February 12, 2018, 03:44:17 am. Over age 'good' looking tires can fail suddenly, and having a flat in a heavy vehicle like a motorhome isn't good!Thanks for the reply! Yeah, I had read that during my months of research, which is why I asked seller if he'd gotten new tires since purchase. I knew that good looking tread didn't mean they were good, as it could just mean they sat for years unused and the rubber could have deteriorated without any noticeable wear.As for the potential brake issue- not good! But honestly, I figure at minimum I'll need to get some basic work done, such as brake job and new tires. My gut feeling on the seller and the RV is good. For a few reasons I won't go into, I believe he's being honest about having his mechanic do basic maintenance and not finding anything major. I also think he's not that knowledgeable about mechanical stuff, as he's more into the actual house part of the vehicle. But overall, I do have a good feeling about the situation. And I'm a very careful person that generally assumes the worst!I am hoping the sale happens. He has pulled the ad, but I sensed he was having some kind of second thoughts about selling. My main concern is he'll decide to keep it. He is obviously proud of the improvements he made, and really likes the RV. I guess I'll find out soon enough.-Lisa 1 Likes
Re: 1991 LD with 90k miles Reply #6 – February 12, 2018, 09:32:27 am Lisa, welcome! To decipher your tire date codes, look at Andy B's site which is linked off of the main forum page:More informationGood luck and let us know how it goes! 1 Likes
Re: 1991 LD with 90k miles Reply #7 – February 12, 2018, 09:41:57 am Without actually inspecting this particular LD, it's impossible to know its overall condition, but I suggest that you hold off on any buying commitment until you or someone with experience thoroughly checks out the chassis, engine, systems, and components. This checklist is comprehensive, and may help to clarify the process :RV Inspection ChecklistUnless this rig has been meticulously maintained and serviced; it's significantly overpriced for its age (and mileage, but that's often a less critical factor than age *if* the motorhome has been cared for.) I would certainly not take the owner's word that 'there are no leaks'; unless it has been re-sealed (roof, windows, including the overcab, vents, etc.), I'd be very surprised if a rig of this age did not leak somewhere - again, if maintenance has not been done - and that 'somewhere' could likely include multiple points of water entry and subsequent damage. Are you able to do at least some of the (inevitable) engine/mechanical, chassis, components/systems, appliance repairs and replacements yourself? You are probably aware that shop charges (and costs in general!) in the Bay Area are very high, and a 1991 is almost certain to require additional cash outlay past the purchase price (again, too much!). Since in one post you state that you 'told the guy I want to buy it', I believe it's fair to ask if you're genuinely seeking opinions and caveats or validation for a decision you've already made?As ever, YMMV. 2 Likes
Re: 1991 LD with 90k miles Reply #8 – February 12, 2018, 12:09:22 pm The primary issue regarding the 90-91 model year was the elimination of the cab-over window. Prior to that year, the window seal was prone to leaking. Over time, water intrusion would lead to rot in the front section of the wood framing.After the switch-over, LD began painting black two large fake windows in the front. They did this for around 30 years until finally just allowing the fake windows to remain white. However, the fake windows are still slightly raised to avoid presenting a large fascia of smooth surface like a 'bread truck'.The 350 engine is another issue, but isn't really the prime consideration. Typically, they had carburetors, which isn't the most efficient, but mechanically the RVs still work. Water damage is the thing that corrupts the basic underlying structure & drives down the value.Regardless, the price seems a little high. We have a '93 22' with the electronic fuel injected 454, 70,000 miles and a lot of brake/suspension/cooling system work (read: brand new). If we ever decided to sell, I figure I could sell it for around the price of the one you're looking at down here in SoCal.However, at this point the RV is essentially free, so we plan on keeping it forever. We rarely use it (10x/year), but it's there when we want it. We don't need $12.5k, and we certainly couldn't enjoy the type of experiences the RV provides when we do use it - for almost any kind of money.
Re: 1991 LD with 90k miles Reply #9 – February 12, 2018, 12:17:31 pm "The primary issue regarding the 90-91 model year was the elimination of the cab-over window.""The tag on the vehicle actually says December 1990, but it's advertised as a 1991."-----I have no idea whether the rig in question has a window in the overcab, but, AFAIK, the overcab window was eliminated in models manufactured around mid-1991.
Re: 1991 LD with 90k miles Reply #10 – February 12, 2018, 12:22:48 pm "According to Andy," (wouldn't that make a good title to a book or movie?) the cabover window was eliminated in mid-1990:Changes by year Personally, I never did like that big window in my '85. It was prone to flexing and cracking, as well.
Re: 1991 LD with 90k miles Reply #11 – February 12, 2018, 01:04:55 pm Quote from: JCT - February 12, 2018, 12:17:31 pm"The primary issue regarding the 90-91 model year was the elimination of the cab-over window.""The tag on the vehicle actually says December 1990, but it's advertised as a 1991."I have no idea whether the rig in question has a window in the overcab, but, AFAIK, the overcab window was eliminated in models manufactured around mid-1991.If, for some reason, it has the older, multi piece front cap, I would be very cautious.90% of the older front caps I have inspected have leaks, either in the corners or from the front window.If it has the new, one piece cap, that's fine. The front corners of the cabover are still spots that can leak and should be closely inspected, especially under the mattress. Overhead cab rot is common and very expensive to fix.The 1991 model was a big improvement over the 1990 and older LDsBesides the new, one-piece front cap, the engine had a better fuel injection installed as well as the superior 4L80E transmission.The front suspension does have weaknesses, the pitman and idler arms wear rapidly and could be the cause of the pulling.Many 350 V8 powered LDs have replaced engines due to overheating, caused by the G-30's marginal cooling system . Definitely have it checked out and serviced. I suggest installing a transmission temperature gauge too.Larry 1 Likes
Re: 1991 LD with 90k miles Reply #12 – February 12, 2018, 01:49:22 pm "the overcab window was eliminated in models manufactured around mid-1991."----My error; mid-1990 Apologies!
Re: 1991 LD with 90k miles Reply #13 – February 12, 2018, 03:13:36 pm Quote from: snerf - February 12, 2018, 12:09:22 pmThe primary issue regarding the 90-91 model year was the elimination of the cab-over window. Prior to that year, the window seal was prone to leaking. Over time, water intrusion would lead to rot in the front section of the wood framing.We have a '93 22' with the electronic fuel injected 454, 70,000 miles and a lot of brake/suspension/cooling system work (read: brand new). If we ever decided to sell, I figure I could sell it for around the price of the one you're looking at down here in SoCal.Hi! Thanks for that info. It does not have the front window. When I got up in the overhead bunk and asked if the curtain opened, the seller said "no, there's no window." Since it looked like there was one from the outside, I was surprised to hear that! There is one small window on either side of the top bunk, but that's it. I did check around windows and doors for signs of water damage and I did not see anything- no discoloration (and it was all original siding, etc., including the padded wall bumpers), no soft spots in the walls when I pressed. I looked in the cabinets, under the sink, etc, and saw nothing.I am most definitely not a mechanic or structural expert, but in terms of water damage, my job entails in part with dealing with housing habitability problems, so I'm at least somewhat familiar with the signs. The seams on this thing looked good, too. The one thing I forgot to do was climb to the roof. He did say he had caulked/sealed all seams around roof openings. He's a contractor, which gives me some hope that he knows what he is talking about.As for the price- yeah, too high. I do not dispute that at all. But the prices of RVs around here have been ridiculous and getting worse. It's kind of insane. And I do not have the time or ability to travel far to check out ones in cheaper areas, so I'm kind of stuck with what's available within a couple hours of one of the most expensive areas in the country.Snerf- you sure you don't want to sell yours? I'm happy to fly down there and pick it up!
Re: 1991 LD with 90k miles Reply #14 – February 12, 2018, 03:19:38 pm As for the model year- I remember reading that with RVs the vehicle is often one model year behind the RV itself. The tag to which I am referring was the metal ID with the VIN on it. So the truck model is from December 1990. From what people have posted above about the front window, the house part must be from 1991. I'm not sure what that means in terms of the truck mechanically, but at least the house part would seem to be the improved one.
Re: 1991 LD with 90k miles Reply #15 – February 12, 2018, 03:37:56 pm Quote from: meandthedogs - February 12, 2018, 01:58:19 amHe's an hour drive from me with about 12 miles of very, very windy mountain roads that I am in no way ready to drive on my first try. I get nervous driving those roads in my Corolla!As for use- this is primarily to serve as a mobile office locally. I may have to go up some hills in San Francisco, but not often. Hah! Having driven my 23.5 TK in San Francisco a couple of times (and never again), I’d rather drive those 12 miles of twisties for sure! 😜. — Jon
Re: 1991 LD with 90k miles Reply #16 – February 12, 2018, 07:28:20 pm Quote from: meandthedogs - February 12, 2018, 03:13:36 pmIt does not have the front window. When I got up in the overhead bunk and asked if the curtain opened, the seller said "no, there's no window." Since it looked like there was one from the outside, I was surprised to hear that! Which one of these does the front cap look like?
Re: 1991 LD with 90k miles Reply #17 – February 12, 2018, 07:38:52 pm I don't know! I don't have a pic in front of me right now because he took the ad down per my request.Are there 3 pics? The one in the middle is not accessible.
Re: 1991 LD with 90k miles Reply #18 – February 12, 2018, 07:39:44 pm Just added. Try refreshing your browser. 1 Likes
Re: 1991 LD with 90k miles Reply #19 – February 12, 2018, 07:43:38 pm i did check under around the overhead bunk for signs of water intrusion, though. Found none. No smells, no bubbling, no stains.
Re: 1991 LD with 90k miles Reply #20 – February 12, 2018, 08:19:48 pm Just sent a text to the guy for a pic of front cabin. I also have the number to the mechanic that has serviced the vehicle for both owners, so I'm going to call and ask about service records.
Re: 1991 LD with 90k miles Reply #21 – February 12, 2018, 09:33:24 pm OK, I got pics. I think its like the two blue ones? I don't know where to upload pics. I don't have run posted online anywhere.
Re: 1991 LD with 90k miles Reply #22 – February 12, 2018, 11:14:20 pm Sounds then as if it is the one-piece cap that Larry mentioned in his post above, and that there is indeed no window in the front cap. You can download photos by clicking on the dark gray "reply" button below this post, then scroll down until you see "Add files by dragging & dropping or selecting them."
Re: 1991 LD with 90k miles Reply #23 – February 13, 2018, 01:33:50 am Here.I also saw the pink slip- it is listed on the title as 1991 Lazy Daze. And I talked to the mechanic. He said his neighbor, the first owner, is a master mechanic who did all his own maintenance. Apparently the first owner sold it to get something with a bigger engine so he could tow motorcycles and and other vehicles he worked on. All in all, while I anticipate having to put money into the vehicle, it seems like it's the real deal. As for the price, the floors this guy put in are real hardwood, which I think is crazy, but the are nice. And he put in some kind of fancy replacement exhaust fans, a blue tooth stereo system and the rear camera. Oh, and not to make all of you envious, BUT, there is also a CB radio. That's right. The first owner put it in. I know you all wish you had one.
Re: 1991 LD with 90k miles Reply #24 – February 13, 2018, 01:56:43 am That's the newer, one piece cap.The 1991, and newer, G30 chassis was superior to the previous models.The 350 engine had internal changes and the transmission was upgraded to the 4L80E, adding overdrive.The engine will last much longer and get better mileage than the earlier models which lacked overdrive. Larry 1 Likes
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