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Electrical Emergency - Progressive Industries EMS Failure
We are parked with a friend who is in an 07 RK. Just arrived at our site and she plugged into the 30amp outlet which immediately tripped. Pedestal checked out OK. We tried plugging into the 50amp with an adapter and immediately tripped. Plugged her into our 30amp pedestal and immediately tripped.

None of the AC breakers in the rig are tripped. She does have the built-in Progressive 30 amp device and it was turned on but power doesn't register long enough to see anything on it. We bypassed it and still got an immediate trip.

It's hot here any suggestions?

Jim
Re: Electrical Emergency
Reply #1 –
Have you tried swapping shore-power cords? Perhaps hers is shorted.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
 
Re: Electrical Emergency
Reply #2 –
Jim ... have you tried to turn everything off and unplug all appliances?   Then plug into the 30A connection.  And can you get power with from the generator?  In addition, I read about a similar problem with a loose wire in the hookup of the ATS.  Hope this helps.
Re: Electrical Emergency
Reply #4 –
Quote from: Ed & Margee  - 
Jim ... have you tried to turn everything off and unplug all appliances?   Then plug into the 30A connection.  And can you get power with from the generator?  In addition, I read about a similar problem with a loose wire in the hookup of the ATS.  Hope this helps.

We turned off all circuit breakers and plugged in and no power was coming into the EMS. We started turning on circuit breakers and nothing would come on although we didn't turn them all on and now I can't recall if we had the EMS turned off or not which would obviously affect that. She is afraid to turn on the generator.

I can say that the generator does not run through the EMS.

Jim
Re: Electrical Emergency
Reply #5 –
We are in Yuma for the week. Anyone know of someone they could recommend for this kind of repair?

Jim
Re: Electrical Emergency
Reply #6 –
Progressive Industries offers 24/7 technical support; I suggest calling them!
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Electrical Emergency
Reply #7 –
Quote from: JCT  - 
Progressive Industries offers 24/7 technical support; I suggest calling them!

Thanks for the reminder Joan. Just got off the phone with him. He did have us turn off all breakers and then connect and it tripped. I recalled that her solar was on so we turned that off and it didn't trip even when we turned on all the AC breakers but there was no sign of power coming to the EMS.

However, looks like someone is going to have to look at the EMS and call them. Hopefully, the mobile tech we called can come out tomorrow.

Jim
Re: Electrical Emergency
Reply #8 –
Jim ... do you have any news about this electrical problem?  We're hoping you have this resolved and back to full-timing!  Please let us know.
Re: Electrical Emergency
Reply #9 –
Quote from: Ed & Margee  - 
Jim ... do you have any news about this electrical problem?  We're hoping you have this resolved and back to full-timing!  Please let us know.

The mobile tech came out and inspected our friend's LD today and spoke with the service folks at Progressive Industries. The EMS appears to be fried. Don't know how or why. She says it was working that morning and then when plugged in that afternoon it just tripped the pedestal breaker. The info has been transmitted to PI since the unit has a lifetime warranty, I think, and she is waiting to hear from them. The local tech got her wired so she has electricity. He also confirmed that there was nothing wrong with the pedestal she plugged into.

I am attaching some photos of the EMS. Note the heat damage on the exposed surface of the lid.

Jim
Re: Electrical Emergency
Reply #10 –
Wow! From the looks of those burned wires I'd say that she came very close to having a big fire. Someone was looking over her shoulder.   :o
Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Cedar
2004 30'IB (Island Bed)
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery
Live for the day!
Re: Electrical Emergency
Reply #11 –
Quote from: Lazy Bones  - 
Wow! From the looks of those burned wires I'd say that she came very close to having a big fire. Someone was looking over her shoulder.  :o

It burned all right.
Looks like the terminal screw loosen and caused a poor connection.
We have seen many examples of that here in the Power Center's 120-VAC side, where the terminals loosen and burn up.

Another thing to add to the annual tightening of all things electrical.
Can't say I have look inside the EMS's box in the past ten years.
I will soon.

Larry

Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Electrical Emergency
Reply #12 –
My father was a Fireman for Los Angeles County. Many years ago he warned me of the dangers of RV wiring.

Back in the day (not sure if it is still this way) RV wiring was aluminum and 120 volt recepticles were designed to be compatible with the aluminum wire.

The potential for RV fires occurred when the RV owners would replace the receptacle with residential styled outlets that have copper screws and wire connections.

As the connections heated up during use, the aluminium wires would expand more rapidly than the copper fittings of the new outlet. This would cause the copper screws to be pulled from their fitting and creating a short and eventual fire.

His recommendation was to avoid such receptacles and insure that all outlets and wiring connections be compatible and regularly inspected for a tight and secure connection.

Larry’s recommendation to check the connections reflects my late fathers warnings. Luckily for all of use there really aren’t too many connections to inspect.

So now I wonder, is this one more thing to add to the LD maintenance schedule? Should we inspect all our outlets to be safe?

Kent 
2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"
Re: Electrical Emergency
Reply #13 –
I'm thinking something more catastrophic than just a loose wire.  The (apparently) ground wire is burned in half, which usually means something quick, like lightning.  The loose wire would heat things up, and eventually cause flames, but that looks like sparks shooting around inside the box.  But yeah, she got lucky it stopped when it did.

Chip
2000 Front Lounge
Re: Electrical Emergency
Reply #14 –
This will seem a bit off-topic at first.  We recently took delivery of our new MB but did not stay in it the first night.   I forgot to turn off the propane and refrigerator.  The next morning I went out to hear the propane alarm screaming and opened the coach door to a faint smell of propane.  I immediately turned off the propane and we then made a return trip to Montclair.  Vince could not find the leak using leak detection fluid on the fittings.  Using a manometer, he confirmed that there was a tiny leak in the system and tightened all of the fittings.  All seems well now.  I'm thankful for a very sensitive propane alarm.  I won't forget to turn off the propane when not using the coach. There could have been an explosive outcome.

While talking to Vince I told him that I was interested in having the Progressive hard-wired EMS installed.  I know they have a good reputation and that many LDOs have and recommend them.  He firmly suggested that I not do that, and reported to have seen many problems associated with them.  I regret that I did not follow-up with more questions to learn the details; we were kind of rushed.  Perhaps the units were not installed correctly?  I am now leaning towards the Portable EMS-PT30X RV Surge Protector.
Jeff
2017 MB
Re: Electrical Emergency
Reply #15 –
Interesting, since my PI EMS also did a melt down this summer ...back was actually spilt open about three inches. It was after I left Glendale AZ for Flagstaff,  w/the high high heat wave for weeks before I left. So hot that running the AC [so I could pack the RV to leave] that it melted/burnt the 30amp cord [25ft.] that was plugged into the dedicated 30 amp service I had installed to use at that house.
At that time, the blower on the AC went out...seems there was a huge power drop every afternoon, due to demand for AC across Phoenix, etc....temps averaged 115, and up to 123...never below 96 even at 3am....ugh!! I assume that was what was affecting all my electronics. Up in Flag, two days after getting there, realized my converter was also not working right..that's when we found the melted EMS unit! Had to replace both it and the converter [also an up-graded unit --smart three stage about four years old.].
Scary stuff, to see the high heat that must have been present to melt and split that PI unit that way..it was under warrantee, and it was replaced free of charge by Progressive Industries..also the mobile repair person's fees.

Quote

Quote

On: Mon Oct 30, 2017 Ed & Margee Wrote: Jim ... do you have any news about this electrical problem? We're hoping you have this resolved and back to full-timing! Please let us know.

The mobile tech came out and inspected our friend's LD today and spoke with the service folks at Progressive Industries. The EMS appears to be fried.
Don't know how or why. She says it was working that morning and then when plugged in that afternoon it just tripped the pedestal breaker. The info has been transmitted to PI since the unit has a lifetime warranty, I think, and she is waiting to hear from them. The local tech got her wired so she has electricity. He also confirmed that there was nothing wrong with the pedestal she plugged into.

I am attaching some photos of the EMS. Note the heat damage on the exposed surface of the lid.
Jim

This message has 3 images/files associated with it.
To see them please follow this link:
http://www.lazydazeowners.com/index.php?topic=30980.msg180255#msg180255 2006 30' IB Anniversary Edition
Life's Little Adventures

You can reply to this email and have it posted as a topic reply.
LDO Links:

index.php?action=notifyboard;board=2.0 Regards, The Lazy Daze Owners Team

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gini Free and Junah, canine xtrodinaire "CHERRYOTTE" our litte red home on wheels "Growing old is mandatory. Growing wise is optional."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gini Free and Junah, canine xtrodinaire
"CHERRYOTTE" our little red home on wheels
"Growing old is mandatory. Growing wise is optional."
Re: Electrical Emergency
Reply #16 –
I haven't heard of 'problems' associated with the PI hard-wired 30A EMS until Jim's report; that doesn't mean that there haven't been any problems with the hard-wired EMS, just that I don't recall hearing or reading about any. (Just read Gini's meltdown report.)

If indeed 'problems' do come up, it very well may be the fault of the installer, not the product itself. In my experience, it is not uncommon to have a tech or mechanic ignore installation instructions (or, the person is unable to read them) or assume that s/he already knows how it should be done, or tries to shortcut or cheap out or save time; what often results is a lashed-up, crap installation that causes problems down the line.

These are links to the hard-wired EMS info/specs and installation/operation instructions.

Progressive Industries, Inc. | Rv Surge Protection

http://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/439d5a_7ad65dbbbaab4a55b19a8bcaca828075.pdf

I have a new portable PI EMS; the fourth over a lot of years. It works for me, but YMMV. PI, even with a change in ownership, does stand behind its products; customer 'goodwill' pays off in the long run.  ;)
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Electrical Emergency
Reply #17 –
Quote from: Jeff Andresen  - 
While talking to Vince I told him that I was interested in having the Progressive hard-wired EMS installed.  I know they have a good reputation and that many LDOs have and recommend them.  He firmly suggested that I not do that, and reported to have seen many problems associated with them.  I regret that I did not follow-up with more questions to learn the details; we were kind of rushed.  Perhaps the units were not installed correctly?  I am now leaning towards the Portable EMS-PT30X RV Surge Protector.
The Progressive hard-wired EMS has proven over many years to be dependable. Burnt terminals are usually caused by a lack maintenance, terminals need to be checked periodically for tightness. Solid copper wire is soft and distorts easily and changes shape, leading to looseness and eventually arcing.
The damage seem in the EMS is commonly seen in the Power Center, the result of a loose connection arcing, the heat produced by the arcing caused the burning.
I have see the same burnt connector conditions in the rooftop A/Cs too.

Disconnect all 120-VAC and 12-VDC power and then tighten all the connections in the Power Center and the EMS. If this is beyond your ability or comfort level, have an experienced tech do it for you.
Stay safe.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Electrical Emergency
Reply #18 –
Quote from: JCT  - 

If indeed 'problems' do come up, it very well may be the fault of the installer, not the product itself. In my experience, it is not uncommon to have a tech or mechanic ignore installation instructions (or, the person is unable to read them) or assume that s/he already knows how it should be done, or tries to shortcut or cheap out or save time; what often results is a lashed-up, crap installation that causes problems down the line.


In our friend's case, it was installed in 2007 so no problems until now. She does full time.

Question for Gini. Did you have the EMS installed after you got the rig or do you know when it was installed?

Ours was installed in 2007 also and this is creating a bit of concern. I do appreciate the protection it provides though.

Jim

Re: Electrical Emergency
Reply #19 –
"Disconnect all 120-VAC and 12-VDC power and then tighten all the connections in the Power Center and the EMS. If this is beyond your ability or comfort level, have an experienced tech do it for you."
----
I think that many would be (and many should be) deterred from checking for loose wires by the "Don't open the cover, high voltage" warning printed on the box cover.  I definitely agree with the advice to have an experienced person do the wire tightness checks is one is leery of the potential results of poking around in equipment that can fry the rig - and you.  :o
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Electrical Emergency
Reply #21 –
Hi Jim...I replaced the original Magnatec converter fuse center with the smart three stage unit, and had the PI EMS installed at the same time..that was in 2010. The installer is an experienced very competent mobile RV repair person I've known for almost 10 years. He is VERY good, and knows his business. [His business name is Byron's Mobile RV Service, in the Grass Valley/Auburn and surrounding area, and I highly recommend him if you're in need of work in that area--tho he is always very booked up due to his desirability as well as his reasonable costs.]

It's been seven years since it was installed, hmmmm....and it has been subjected to AZ's extreme heat as well as the rough roads between Cal. and AZ every year since then til now [sold that winter house this year].

And I had checked my connections a while back, but it had been more than a year ago.

At 10:39 AM 10/31/2017, you wrote:

Quote

Quote

On: Tue Oct 31, 2017 JCT Wrote:

If indeed 'problems' do come up, it very well may be the fault of the installer, not the product itself. In my experience, it is not uncommon to have a tech or mechanic ignore installation instructions (or, the person is unable to read them) or assume that s/he already knows how it should be done, or tries to shortcut or cheap out or save time; what often results is a lashed-up, crap installation that causes problems down the line.

In our friend's case, it was installed in 2007 so no problems until now. She does full time.

Question for Gini. Did you have the EMS installed after you got the rig or do you know when it was installed? Ours was installed in 2007 also and this is creating a bit of concern. I do appreciate the protection it provides though.
Jim

2006 30' IB Anniversary Edition
Life's Little Adventures

You can reply to this email and have it posted as a topic reply.
LDO Links:

index.php?action=notifyboard;board=2.0 Regards, The Lazy Daze Owners Team

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gini Free and Junah, canine xtrodinaire "CHERRYOTTE" our litte red home on wheels "Growing old is mandatory. Growing wise is optional."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gini Free and Junah, canine xtrodinaire
"CHERRYOTTE" our little red home on wheels
"Growing old is mandatory. Growing wise is optional."
Re: Electrical Emergency
Reply #22 –
Quote from: Jim & Gayle  - 
Our friend felt that the mobile tech was someone we might want to add to the list of repair services. He is located in Yuma, AZ and here is his info.

Martin's Mobile RV Service
Blank Title - Martn's Mobile RV Repair Service
928-305-6564
Thanks, Jim. I have added it to the list.
Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Re: Electrical Emergency - Progressive Industries EMS Failure
Reply #23 –
"Looks like the terminal screw loosen and caused a poor connection."

Yup. Same thing happened to me a few years ago. Same cause--loosened screw terminals in the EMS-30 box--and very similar symptoms. Truth is, solid copper wiring should never be used in mobile applications, and compression-type screw terminals just make it worse. But the RV industry continues to go its merry way...
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Electrical Emergency - Progressive Industries EMS Failure
Reply #24 –
Quote from: Andy Baird  - 
... solid copper wiring should never be used in mobile applications...

Why? Because copper is softer than AL? I was under the impression that AL was inferior to CO because it could overheat.

I will have my limber grandson access our PI and tighten the screws.
This would never have occurred to me. Out of sight and mind.

Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy