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SOLAR PANELS NOT CHARGING
The solar panels don't seem to be working. The read-out displays battery voltage 13 plus change with shore power connected and 12.5 when shore power is disconnected. Charging amps and charging amps other show 0's whether shore power is connected or not. The in-line fuse at the fuse panel is ok. Any ideas what to check now?
Lance & Barb
2003 Lazy Daze 26.5' Mid-Bath; 2006 Saturn toad
Re: SOLAR PANELS NOT CHARGING
Reply #1 –
Well... Traveler1291925. A name would be appreciated, along with year and floor plan of the coach. It helps us troubleshoot if we know more. Are your solar controller and panels from the factory, or installed after market. Look on the roof to see if anything obvious is wrong, loose wires, broken panel glass etc. It doesn't hurt to hand clean the panels. There could be another fuse in line with the panels before it gets to the solar controller.  Being plugged in shouldn't affect anything. The increase in voltage you see is from the converter.    RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: SOLAR PANELS NOT CHARGING
Reply #2 –
Does your charge controller shut down if the batteries are overtemp?  What charge controller do you have installed?

Chip
2000 Front Lounge
Re: SOLAR PANELS NOT CHARGING
Reply #3 –
Quote from: traveler1291925  - 
The solar panels don't seem to be working. The read-out displays battery voltage 13 plus change with shore power connected and 12.5 when shore power is disconnected. Charging amps and charging amps other show 0's whether shore power is connected or not. The in-line fuse at the fuse panel is ok. Any ideas what to check now?
If this is a LD with factory panels, the build may includes fuses in the junction box (es) on the roof. If this is the case, and the fuses are blown, you can safely bypass them. They are not needed. For more help, if this is a LD, year, floorplan, model of charge controller, etc.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit
Re: SOLAR PANELS NOT CHARGING
Reply #4 –
KEY INFORMATION: The house batteries were replaced. When the tech installed them he installed them backwards. (This was at an authorized Trojan dealer.) The 30 amp DC fuse(s) in the fuse/breaker panel blew. The 15 amp solar panel fuse did not. He corrected his mistake and everything worked again, except the solar panel system. The display reads out the battery voltage, reads "0" on the other two settings (charging amps, and charging amps-other). The display goes dark with the 15 amp fuse out and lights up again when the fuse is put back in.

We have a 26.5 Mid-Bath Lazy Daze. The (2) solar panels and controller were installed at the factory for the original buyers. The documentation shows the 2 panels are by BP Solar and the controller is HELIOTROPE PV (Eugene, OR).

I double-checked all the DC fuses under the fuse/breaker cover in the coach, all good. I called the mothership was told there are more fuses mounted on the panel themselves but you have to unbolt the panels from the roof to get to them. I don't see a junction box anywhere on the roof, not sure what it would look like. If I have to check the fuses on the panel that means breaking the seal at the mounting bolts and resealing when done. Big bummer.

The Trojan dealer seems somewhat willing to work with us on this, but they're not an RV specific shop, and the guy he wants us to have take a look at it "has experience with boats."  So we are trying to explore our options.

Thanks for your input,
-Lance
Lance & Barb
2003 Lazy Daze 26.5' Mid-Bath; 2006 Saturn toad
Re: SOLAR PANELS NOT CHARGING
Reply #5 –
Pull the controller panel, using a voltmeter, and check for voltage on the terminals for the solar panel's + and - power input.
Do this while the panels are in sunlight.
A voltage reading between 19 and 21 volts DC is expected  if the panels are producing power and their hidden fuses are OK.
If no voltage is seen, you will have to remove the panels, their fuses are mounted under the glass.

If the above checks out, odds are good that the controller is defective.
What solar controller does your LD have?

Larry

Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: SOLAR PANELS NOT CHARGING
Reply #6 –
Okay, we'll try that.  Thanks!

RV-30S Charge Controller manufactured by Heliotrope PV, Eugene, OR.

Barb
Lance & Barb
2003 Lazy Daze 26.5' Mid-Bath; 2006 Saturn toad
Re: SOLAR PANELS NOT CHARGING
Reply #7 –
Just a thought (although this won't help with diagnosis)--the RV-30S controller is an old "switch-mode" model that throws away power that could be going to your batteries. After you figure out what's wrong with your current setup, you might want to replace the RV-30S with a newer "MPPT" type controller, which will squeeze more juice out of your panels.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
 
Re: SOLAR PANELS NOT CHARGING
Reply #8 –
I took the solar control panel down to measured voltages on the terminals at the back of the controller board. There were 12.8 dc volts at the "Bat. +/-" terminals and zero dc volts at the "PV +/-" terminals. I'm guessing the "Bat." terminals go out to the house batteries and the PV terminals are fed by the solar panels. With zero volts showing on the PV terminals the fuse(s) must be blown on the panels on the roof. Sound right? Thanks for the tip to read the voltages at the control panel.
-Lance (and Barb)
Lance & Barb
2003 Lazy Daze 26.5' Mid-Bath; 2006 Saturn toad
Re: SOLAR PANELS NOT CHARGING
Reply #9 –
I'm not understanding how the factory mounts the panels to the roof.  Most all installations have mounting "feet" that are attached usually by bolts to the panels, then the feet are either glued or screwed into the roof (sometimes both). 
Can you remove the bolts where the "feet" attach to the panels?  If they are stainless steel they may be galled and have to be broken to be removed.
2004 26.5 MB
Enjoying retirement traveling, Rzr riding, photography, and of course the 2 grand girls!
Re: SOLAR PANELS NOT CHARGING
Reply #10 –
Quote from: traveler1291925  - 
With zero volts showing on the PV terminals the fuse(s) must be blown on the panels on the roof. Sound right?

Not necessarily. Disconnect the PV leads at the controller to make the measurement at the leads. If you now get a good reading (17+ Volts in full sun) then the controller is probably bad.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit
Re: SOLAR PANELS NOT CHARGING
Reply #11 –
"I'm not understanding how the factory mounts the panels to the roof."

Others can probably explain this better, but from memory: Lazy Daze mounted the panels (at least in my 2003 midbath) very close to the roof, and in such a way that the fasteners that connect the feet to the panel are inaccessible. Thus, as Lance said, you actually have to pry the feet off the roof to get at the underside of the panel, where its junction box is located. Stupid, but that's the way they did it.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: SOLAR PANELS NOT CHARGING
Reply #12 –
Does anyone know what kind of fuses I will need once I gain access to the blown fuses on the BP Solar panels? Thanks, Lance.

(PS, Steve. Thanks for the tip to disconnect the PV leads. I did so and voltage still reads zero on the multi-meter.)
Lance & Barb
2003 Lazy Daze 26.5' Mid-Bath; 2006 Saturn toad
Re: SOLAR PANELS NOT CHARGING
Reply #13 –
Quote from: traveler1291925  - 
Does anyone know what kind of fuses I will need once I gain access to the blown fuses on the BP Solar panels? Thanks, Lance.

Don't know if your's is the same but our friend had this happen on her 07. In this blog post, you will see the photo of the fuse which is an inline 10 amp.

Life's Little Adventures: Search results for blown fuse

Here is the thread I posted on the forum.

Solar Panel Help

Jim
Re: SOLAR PANELS NOT CHARGING
Reply #14 –
I should add also that at the time our friend had the problem I spoke with AM Solar since it was their panel and controller. They said that it doesn't need the fuse and they didn't know why LD installed one.

Jim
Re: SOLAR PANELS NOT CHARGING
Reply #15 –
Jim, Thanks for the two links above. Both very helpful. It looks like they use standard fuses. And it sounds like there is only one junction box for the two panels? and therefore only one fuse for the both--two panel, one fuse? If that is the case, there would be no need to take up both panels? only the one with the j-box?
Lance & Barb
2003 Lazy Daze 26.5' Mid-Bath; 2006 Saturn toad
Re: SOLAR PANELS NOT CHARGING
Reply #16 –
Quote from: traveler1291925  - 
Jim, Thanks for the two links above. Both very helpful. It looks like they use standard fuses. And it sounds like there is only one junction box for the two panels? and therefore only one fuse for the both--two panel, one fuse? If that is the case, there would be no need to take up both panels? only the one with the j-box?

The box is on the underside of each panel attached to the panel not the roof.

Jim
Re: SOLAR PANELS NOT CHARGING
Reply #17 –
OKAY, the digging, gouging, pulling, scrapping, pinching, twisting has begun, trying to get the feet loose from the sealant without puncturing roof skin. Would a heat gun help (scared to use one that close to the panels)? -Lance
Lance & Barb
2003 Lazy Daze 26.5' Mid-Bath; 2006 Saturn toad
Re: SOLAR PANELS NOT CHARGING
Reply #18 –
Quote from: traveler1291925  - 
OKAY, the digging, gouging, pulling, scrapping, pinching, twisting has begun, trying to get the feet loose from the sealant without puncturing roof skin. Would a heat gun help (scared to use one that close to the panels)? -Lance

I never had a heat gun but I would think it would soften it. However, I used a 5 in 1 tool. It's stiff enough and the pointed end help expose the screw heads. Mike Sylvester who used to do a lot of work on LD's recommended it to me to get the caulk off.

Red Devil 4251 Painter's 6-In-1-Tool - Putty Knives - Amazon.com

Jim
As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: SOLAR PANELS NOT CHARGING
Reply #19 –
Before prying and heat, I would try...
A) A thin, flexible knife, like one of the cheap plastic break-off/extendable blade ones.  With sustained, mild upward pressure on the foot, start on the side and slice in shallow cuts, increasing in depth as you progress.  Have some acetone at the ready to coat the blade so goo doesn't stick to it.  (Or try goo-gone, wd40, olive oil -- whatever works to prevent the adhesive from sticking to knife.)

B) Or, try a loop of piano/music wire, steel guitar string, with the end held in rings or vice-grips so you can pull/saw the sealant.  Might try whatever goo works best from above, too.

C) Another approach would be one of these vibratory multi-tools, with either a toothed or toothless blade.  Again with the goo so the adhesive/caulk/whatever doesn't stick to the blade so much.

All would be much safer for the roof material and the solar cell than prying straight up with a tool.

Chip
2000 Front Lounge
Re: SOLAR PANELS NOT CHARGING
Reply #20 –

"Another approach would be one of these vibratory multi-tools, with either a toothed or toothless blade."

An oscillating/vibratory tool such as a MultiMaster is by far the easiest way to do this, although of course you have to buy the tool. But I strongly recommend against using a toothed blade. It's way too easy to tear a hole in your aluminum roof with one! Get the most flexible straight blade you can find, such as this one. And keep your angle as low as you can, to avoid digging into the roof.

As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: SOLAR PANELS NOT CHARGING
Reply #21 –
Quote from: Andy Baird  - 
"Another approach would be one of these vibratory multi-tools, with either a toothed or toothless blade."

An oscillating/vibratory tool such as a MultiMaster is by far the easiest way to do this.... But I strongly recommend against using a toothed blade. Get the most flexible straight blade you can find,,,,,And keep your angle as low as you can, to avoid digging into the roof.
Andy's advice is right on, a vibratory tool , with a shape whistle blade IS the easiest way to cut sealant off the roof.
With a couple shape blades and the tool, you can strip all the sealant off a roof in a couple hours, it cuts like a hot knife through butter. 
It's the tool to use if stripping the roof completely for a reseal, Mothership-style.
Roof seam reseal | Flickr
Make sure, when reinstalling the panel's feet, to bury them in polyurethane sealant.

A vibratory tool is a very handy tool, one that has all sorts of uses in maintaining and enhancing your LD. It is a very accurate saw that can fit into places no other cutting tool can, including flush cuts. Blades are available in many sizes and for wood, plastic, metal and porcelain .

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: SOLAR PANELS NOT CHARGING
Reply #22 –
What recommendations do you have regarding sealants for resealing around the feet of the panels when I replace them? HOME DEPOT has a white LOCTITE Polyurethane PL Pro Line Window Door and Siding caulk in stock but doesn't have tubes on the shelves with the S40 on the labeling. I'm not sure if I'm good to go with plain PL or if I need to track down PL S40? LOCTITE doesn't list S40 on their website so maybe it's an old designation? (even though HOME DEPOT does show S40 on their website)?
````````````
Just an update, last week the Mothership recommended PROLINE S40 Polyurethane sealant, but not being able to find it, we called Loctite and they said the "S40" is the old naming system.  Now that product is called PL Pro Line Window Door and Siding polyurethane sealant. 
Lance & Barb
2003 Lazy Daze 26.5' Mid-Bath; 2006 Saturn toad
Re: SOLAR PANELS NOT CHARGING
Reply #23 –
You might check out Dicor sealants and/or 3M 5200 Fast Cure. You will likely receive additional suggestions!  ;)
2003 TK has a new home
Re: SOLAR PANELS NOT CHARGING
Reply #24 –
Good news, the fuse up top was blown; bad news, the controller still shows zero charging current:

The solar panels are now sending voltage (17 to 19V) to the PV +/- terminals on the back of the controller on the wall in the coach. The controller display show the battery level at 12.5 V with nothing running and drops to 11.8 with lights and fans on. The charging current display reads zero in all cases. I only know of fuses in the junction box on the back of the solar panel on the roof and the in-line fuse in the coach's fuse panel. Fuses are all good. None blow with everything hooked back up.

What's left besides the controller being bad? Am I missing something? Is there another fuse hiding somewhere?

-Lance
Lance & Barb
2003 Lazy Daze 26.5' Mid-Bath; 2006 Saturn toad