Coach power problems September 16, 2017, 11:39:24 am I am at the NELD Fall Rally and not even our gurus can figure out what’s going on. I wonder if anyone here can isolate the problem.Problem: Coach battery power is not reaching the coach. And one time, the AC power didn’t reach the coach.Background:I have owned my 2005 RB for 2 months. The first two overnight trips— no power problems. I have two solar panels- when the coach is plugged in to AC, the solar panel meter reads that solar is working (solar meter not powered if AC is unplugged.)I have 2 Trojan 125 batteries. Voltmeter reads 12.5 V on the batteries. Distilled water level is and has been kept optimum.Currently, while on AC at the camp ground, the LD panel over the stove says the batteries are fully charged.Sequence of problems:Wed. I was at my home. No power in the coach. The generator sounded anemic and wouldn’t start. Starting the Ford gave the generator the power to start. I drove for 4 hours with the generator on. I got to the campground, did not plug in (too dark to see where to back up), and had full coach power when the generator was on. Turned off the generator— no power in coach.Thurs-Sat- Plugged in and full power in coach. On Sat., tested the system by unplugging the AC, and no power in coach. Voltmeter says batteries are charged at 12.5V. LD over-the-stove indicator says batteries are fully chargedSat.: Some long-time LDers who know electricity came by. They checked the batteries and they are without corrosion, the breaker switch behind them is fine/working properly, and voltmeter reads 12.5V. (I don’t have the battery disconnect switch.) Fuses in converter were checked and were fine. We unplugged the coach from AC, and no power. We plugged it back in to AC, and YIKES! No power on AC!!!! We turned on the Ford, and the AC power started working again in the coach.Currently, the Ford is turned off, the rig is plugged in to AC, and all coach power is working.We are all befuddled. Any idea what is going on? Thanks so much for your thoughts!!!!Denise2005 RB
Re: Coach power problems Reply #1 – September 16, 2017, 12:10:14 pm Denise,This is just a shot in the dark (no pun intended..... well, maybe , check the battery isolator. I'm wondering if it might be sticking in a position that it is effectively disconnecting the house battery. I think it might be located under the hood of the van. The electrical gurus should be able to find it and check it's operation, or at least remove it from the list of things to check.The no, or intermittent, AC could be the transfer switch. I would also check to see if a surge protector is in line as well. The Progressive Industries HW30 is fairly popular and will cause a delay in the AC coming on when plugged in.Ken, former 09 MB owner
Re: Coach power problems Reply #2 – September 16, 2017, 12:15:17 pm The problem could be a bad transfer switch; an Onan service center should be able to diagnose and repair/replace dead parts.
Re: Coach power problems Reply #3 – September 16, 2017, 12:56:44 pm Hi Denise. Some problems are apparent from your comments. 1) The solar meter should always work, if there is sunlight. The fact that it doesn't work, except when AC is applied; the meter is only reading the converter voltage when you are plugged in. 2) The lights to denote battery status over the stove, don't measure the battery status; they measure the 12vdc status applied to the 12v coach wide systems. In this case the converters output because you are plugged in to AC. 3) The batteries are discharged, they should read 12.7+ volts, about 13v. or higher if they have been recently charging, and as high as 14.8 volts with the engine running. Measure battery voltage directly at the batteries with a separate meter while the engine is running. 4) Not all battery disconnects are between the two six volt batteries, as the factory does it. Most people would install a disconnect switch on the positive lead from the battery bank where the 100 Amp circuit breaker is, only not in the battery box. I would look for that if there is no charging voltage on the batteries with the engine running. My initial suspicions are with the ABT, Automatic buss transfer switch that disconnects your batteries when you plug into AC. The converter 'trickle' charges the batteries through another circuit. I don't know which series of Converter you have; it should be listed behind the door, visible when looking at the fuses. You did check the solar fuse and all of the other fuses/ breakers. Overall it sounds like the batteries aren't being charged at all. The solar meter should have a switch to display how much current is flowing into the batteries. Do you have an RV30S? HTH RonB 1 Likes
Re: Coach power problems Reply #4 – September 16, 2017, 01:19:52 pm You could turn off the 12 volt converter then check the voltage at your batteries with nothing on then have someone turn on fans, stove vent, lights, etc. and watch your battery voltage. If it drops quickly below 12 volts as you turn on items then your batteries are probably bad. Or you could pull them and have them load tested at an auto parts store.I'm thinking the transfer switch may be powered by the batteries which could cause it to not work properly if the batteries are bad.Good luck!
Re: Coach power problems Reply #5 – September 16, 2017, 01:55:22 pm "My initial suspicions are with the ABT, Automatic buss transfer switch that disconnects your batteries when you plug into AC."Ron, can you explain this a bit? The term is unfamiliar to me, and I'm having trouble seeing why one would want to disconnect the batteries when plugging into AC.
Re: Coach power problems Reply #6 – September 16, 2017, 02:23:17 pm Hi, Folks, This is in answer to Ron's post. I will also read through these other posts in a sec.Hi, Ron,Hopefully I am answering your questions properly.Now the HPV 22 solar monitor reads: battery voltage 14.49 (earlier today it was reading more like 12.5), charging amps 0.00. You said this is measuring voltage from the converter only, which is powered by AC right now.LD converter 7300, model 7345, retrofitted with a 3 stage Progressive Dynamics PD 4600 3 stage converter.Right now, with the rig plugged into AC, the batteries read 12.3. When I turn on the engine, the batteries read 13.98.I'm not sure what 'RV30S" is referring to. I googled that and saw a vent?Thanks,Denise
Re: Coach power problems Reply #7 – September 16, 2017, 02:37:27 pm Ken,I'll ask the guys about the battery isolator. In their conversations, they mentioned that.folivier,After futzing around a bit (checking fuses, battery voltage, unplugging and plugging back in), we turned off everything and let the batteries do their thing. For maybe 10 seconds, there was weak power to some lights and a fan (the only things turned on), but they were failing/fading quickly. However, I'm not sure the converter was actually turned off at that time. I'll ask the guys.JCT, I'll mention this to they guys and see what they say about the transfer switch.Thanks to everyone for your thoughts.Denise
Re: Coach power problems Reply #8 – September 16, 2017, 03:05:22 pm Everything I see in this thread makes me believe that there is an open in the 12V power line between the batteries and the distribution center. Easy to check, measure the voltage at the batteries and then at the distribution panel with the AC unplugged. If the voltage is not basically the same, you have an issue. As far as I remember, there is another 12V breaker in this line, in a well hidden spot. Maybe beneath the cooktop? (Oops I rechecked and you have a RB, but I believe you may have another breaker somewhere).Art
Re: Coach power problems Reply #9 – September 16, 2017, 04:33:06 pm Quote from: Older_Fossil - September 16, 2017, 03:05:22 pmEverything I see in this thread makes me believe that there is an open in the 12V power line between the batteries and the distribution center. Easy to check, measure the voltage at the batteries and then at the distribution panel with the AC unplugged. If the voltage is not basically the same, you have an issue. As far as I remember, there is another 12V breaker in this line, in a well hidden spot. Maybe beneath the cooktop? (Oops I rechecked and you have a RB, but I believe you may have another breaker somewhere).ArtOn our 06 30' IB there are two 12v breakers under the fridge. Of course the fridge is directly above the battery box. They have tripped a couple of times over the years.Jim
Re: Coach power problems Reply #10 – September 16, 2017, 05:57:17 pm I guess I would use a step by step process to try to isolate the issue. First, I would disconnect the positive feed from your battery bank, then measure the battery voltage. When you have the engine on, and/or solar, and/or plugged in to shore power, you will read voltage as supplied by your converter/controller. With that other stuff feeding voltage, you are not able to read battery voltage. I suspect your batteries are low and perhaps bad.If you get 13 or more volts at the battery posts with the batteries disconnected, the batteries are probably good. Look for any sign of corrosion on the cable terminals where they connect to the batteries.If there is no sign of any corrosion at the terminals, reconnect them. Go to the power panel and measure the voltage coming into the panel with all other sources off. This means do the test after dark, with no shore power connection, with the Ford off, and with the generator off. Your voltage at the power panel should be very near the voltage you measured at the battery posts. While there, make sure all the connections are snug, with no looseness in any of the screw terminals. Be careful when doing this that you do not touch anything other than the screw head with the screwdriver.It sounds like the generator is fine. It started when you had power from the Ford but was sluggish when you were trying to start it on batteries, suggesting weak batteries or poor connectivity to the batteries. Once on, you had good power in the coach. Same with shore power - when plugged in, you had coach power but when unplugged you had no coach power. With either the generator or shore power present, 120v power will be provided to your charger/converter, which changes the voltage to nominal 12v DC power (actually about 13.5 volts) and routes it to the power panel. So, that suggests that the fuses are all fine but that power is not getting from the battery terminals to the power panel. That can be from a failed or open battery breaker, from a damaged wire, or from a loose connection on the batteries or on the power panel. Any of these could prevent your batteries from charging. That should show in the above test where you check power coming into the power panel with everything but the batteries off. You would see a reading of 0 volts.If the voltage coming into the power panel is good, check the voltage coming out of each fuse. I think they will be fine. If your fuses were the issue, using generator or shore power would not restore power in the coach. Everything sounds to me like a problem with the circuitry between the battery posts and the power feed and ground to the power panel. Solve that, and the batteries should charge and you should have power in the coach.Ken F in WY 2 Likes
Re: Coach power problems Reply #11 – September 16, 2017, 06:02:05 pm Hi, I have a 2010 RB and found via others that there is a circuit breaker under the plywood/front dinette seat. If your RB is like mine you would have remove the dinette seat and unscrew the plywood to reach the breaker that is right above your batteries. It is only reachable by removing the board under the front dinette seat. Good luck. 1 Likes
Re: Coach power problems Reply #12 – September 16, 2017, 08:07:35 pm Sounds like a good place for one of those access doors as used on the main power cord on the side of the coach. Or, an aftermarket gas door cover. Something big enough to get your hand thru, but sturdy and flat enough to sit on without worry.Chip
Re: Coach power problems Reply #13 – September 17, 2017, 05:32:23 am "remove the dinette seat and unscrew the plywood to reach the breaker"Lazy Daze is great in most ways, but when I see things like this, I want to tear my hair out. In my midbath, the master breaker was hidden to one side of a drawer under the fridge; you had to take completely remove the drawer to gain access, and (worst of all) the breaker was completely unmarked, and its location undocumented in the owner's manual. Why do they do things like this? Grrr... 1 Likes
Re: Coach power problems Reply #14 – September 18, 2017, 09:48:43 am Quote from: Andy Baird - September 17, 2017, 05:32:23 am"remove the dinette seat and unscrew the plywood to reach the breaker"Lazy Daze is great in most ways, but when I see things like this, I want to tear my hair out. In my midbath, the master breaker was hidden to one side of a drawer under the fridge; you had to take completely remove the drawer to gain access, and (worst of all) the breaker was completely unmarked, and its location undocumented in the owner's manual. Why do they do things like this? Grrr...So I go out to open up this panel under the front dinette seat. Guess what? They screwed down the panel before they installed the back seat cushion on the dinette. One of the screws requires a 90 degree phillips (if there is such a thing) to get the front right screw released. Had they screwed that about three inches more towards the rear of the coach, that screw would be easily accessible and the panel would just slide out. Like Andy says... grrrrr. I can, however, see a bunch of electrical wiring underneath, as the board flexes a bit. I don't yet see a breaker switch-- but then not everything is visible. I'm taking the coach this afternoon to a Trojan dealer who is going to test the batteries. He doesn't do RV wiring, but first things first. Are the batteries dead? One more thing to add. There is an add-on 12V receptacle by the drivers seat, which I use to plug in my Garmin. It worked going to the rally on Wed. It was not getting juice coming back from the rally on Sun. The previous owner says it is tied into the house batteries, but should get power directly from the Ford when traveling, even if the batteries are dead. I just put this out there, in case it helps crack the mystery.I see other suggestions above, which I will pursue after the batteries are tested. Thanks for all your thoughts.Denise
Re: Coach power problems Reply #15 – September 18, 2017, 12:28:56 pm Quote from: Denise Weber - September 18, 2017, 09:48:43 amOne of the screws requires a 90 degree phillips (if there is such a thing) to get the front right screw released. Had they screwed that about three inches more towards the rear of the coach, that screw would be easily accessible and the panel would just slide out.Maybe something like this will help.Husky Offset Screwdriver (2-Pack)-20210010 - The Home DepotArt 1 Likes
Re: Coach power problems Reply #16 – September 18, 2017, 01:25:22 pm "Maybe something like this will help.Husky Offset Screwdriver (2-Pack)-20210010 - The Home Depot"HAHAHAHA - I can't tell you how much flack I have gotten over the years for hoarding keeping a set of slot and Phillips offset screwdrivers in my kitchen drawers in both the house and the Lazy Daze !! But when that angle is necessary, it REALLY is necessary!!! Virtual hugs, Judie <-- Sierra Vista, Arizona Adventures of Dorrie Anne | Photographing the West Today: Open Door Wheat Bread ****************************** 3 Likes
Re: Coach power problems Reply #17 – September 18, 2017, 02:00:16 pm Quote from: Older_Fossil - September 18, 2017, 12:28:56 pmMaybe something like this will help.Husky Offset Screwdriver (2-Pack)-20210010 - The Home DepotArt Something like this is even better. General Tools Offset Screwdriver Set (9-Piece)-80075 - The Home DepotCharles 2 Likes
Re: Coach power problems Reply #18 – September 18, 2017, 02:56:05 pm "Something like this is even better."-----OK, going to HD to get a new tool! 4 Likes
Re: Coach power problems Reply #19 – September 18, 2017, 05:47:42 pm You guys are too funny! An update on my electrical drama-rama:Batteries were load tested and they are fine. There is also power leaving the batteries, confirmed, again, by testing. The electrician said the Ford alternator is charging the batteries. Inside the coach, at the LD converter box, testing demonstrated that no power is reaching the converter from the batteries. He tested those little knob-like things above the fuses, which specifically test battery juice, and there was no juice.The electrician crawled under the coach at the battery box, but didn't see anything going on there. He could see a switch above the battery box (inside the coach, under the front dinette seat), but he couldn't get a ground to test it. And, I don't yet know how to open/take off the window screen, so he could ground it outside the coach. Newbie stuff. I'll figure out how to do that, and then go to the electrician that this guy recommended, as today's guy is a battery/alternator pro, but not an RV wiring guy.
Re: Coach power problems Reply #20 – September 18, 2017, 11:26:48 pm Looks like the 50 amp breaker needs reset. 3 Likes
Re: Coach power problems Reply #21 – September 19, 2017, 12:22:51 pm If you seek offset screw drivers, or a way to apply some leverage to a normal screw, you owe it to yourself, and America, to get a set of Chapman Manufacturing tools. Chapman Manufacturing - Screwdriver Sets Made in the USAAll sizes and types of drives. A simple, compact ratchet and various length shafts in a nice little box. Believe me, these last a lifetime and are very useful. I no longer get upset with the ridiculous spaces and places of RV screw heads. 1 Likes
Re: Coach power problems Reply #22 – September 19, 2017, 12:45:48 pm Thanks for that recommendation, Paul; I will definitely look at their products! 1 Likes
Re: Coach power problems Reply #23 – September 19, 2017, 12:51:50 pm ""Something like this is even better."-----OK, going to HD to get a new tool! "********************************Me, too! A fabulous tool to have, even if all I do is admire it! ;-> I have an envelope of different full-sized screwdrivers, rather than heads-on-a-handle, but this is something that NEEDS to be in my kitchen "silverware" drawer. I hide my tools there so they don't disappear!Virtual hugs,Judie•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~• Husky Offset Screwdriver (2-Pack)-20210010 - The Home Depot
Re: Coach power problems Reply #24 – September 19, 2017, 01:15:08 pm Judie said,--"I hide my tools there so they don't disappear!"Every woman should have her own stash--years ago I started giving starter stashes as wedding shower/HS graduation gifts to the young women I was blest to know. My daughter thought it odd--well, she had access to my stash...when she got to college, she was the only one on her dorm floor with such accouterments.Lynne 2 Likes
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