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Topic: Exhaust Pipe Heat Shield for Tires (Read 2611 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Exhaust Pipe Heat Shield for Tires
Reply #50 –
"I'll consider this a success if the inside dual runs at or very near the temperature of the outside dual."

Unless you know if there is any temperature difference now, you will never know if the shields caused a lower temp or not.

Just got home the other day. Drove about 1 1/2 hours at 65 mph. Outside temp in the mid-70's.

Passenger side- sunny side
O/S dual at 109*
I/S dual at 107*

Drivers side (shady) ran about 10* less.

This is the air temp per my TPMS. How accurate is it? Don't have a clue. I have never tried , nor do I have a way, to verify the accuracy of the temperature feature, just of the pressure feature.

Not much temperature difference between inside and outside tires based on this one observation.


Re: Exhaust Pipe Heat Shield for Tires
Reply #51 –
Just catching up on an  interesting topic. Google provided the following info concerning tire temperature

Ambient temperatures, hot sun on one tire with another in the shade, altitude, tread depth, camber/caster/toe, spring rates and weight distribution all contribute to tire heat and subsequent pressures.
Plus the road surface. Black asphalt or grey concrete.

I suspect it would be near impossible to say with certainty which of these variables was a major contributor to any given tire blowout.

Under inflation and overloading a tire kept popping up as the major causes of excessive temperatures and blowouts.



Re: Exhaust Pipe Heat Shield for Tires
Reply #52 –
Ed D.'s measurements showing sunny vs. shady side temps also are exhaust vs. non-exhaust side.  It would be interesting to know if the sun or exhaust is the primary cause of the 10-degree swing side-to-side.  An infrared thermometer is good for spot temp readings, which can be used for comparison purposes.  Their 'absolute' accuracy is subject to some variables, but if you're consistent in taking the readings, measured differences in temp can be reliable.

Chip  
2000 Front Lounge
Re: Exhaust Pipe Heat Shield for Tires
Reply #53 –
"  It would be interesting to know if the sun or exhaust is the primary cause of the 10-degree swing side-to-side."

Indeed it would. An experiment would require driving under the identical conditions both directions measuring the temperature at say, 15 minute intervals then compare the results. Anything else is simply a guess.

Re: Exhaust Pipe Heat Shield for Tires
Reply #54 –
Just had that notorious inside pass. side loose air--not a blow out, but  serious enough to replace the tire [ going on four years old, with a lot of time in scorching AZ half of each year]. Thank goodness for the TPMS w/temp monitoring.

My question is what temperature denotes "HIGH"...that tire, running on asphalt, outside Barstow, 4pm, and 112 outside, and on the sunny side of the rig, had gone up to 95 PSI, and hit 131!! Traveling at about 57 mph, so slowed down to 54, and aimed for the rest stop 20 miles away. There was no shoulder to speak of, no real safe place to pull off the traffic lane. I got as far over as I could, and by the time I limped in going about 5/10mph, it had lost all air.
FYI all tires were running between 122 and 124, 90 plus PSI, and the outside pass. was 127 temp, and 94 PSI..it was HOT out there! Soooo, at what point is temp/PSI a danger point? This is the hottest, and highest, any of the six tires have ever run. I have the alarm set at 15 PSI higher than the rear 80, front 67, and high temp is set at 125.
Heck of a balancing act.

At 08:34 PM 8/4/2017, you wrote:

Quote

Just catching up on an interesting topic. Google provided the following info concerning tire temperature

Ambient temperatures, hot sun on one tire with another in the shade, altitude, tread depth, camber/caster/toe, spring rates and weight distribution all contribute to tire heat and subsequent pressures.
Plus the road surface. Black asphalt or grey concrete.
I suspect it would be near impossible to say with certainty which of these variables was a major contributor to any given tire blowout.
Under inflation and overloading a tire kept popping up as the major causes of excessive temperatures and blowouts.
Ed

The travels of Ed, Carol and Gopher the dog.
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Re: Exhaust Pipe Heat Shield for Tires
Reply #55 –
Driving with the sun on one side of the LD, for a extended period, the TPMS show the tires on the sunny side running two or three pounds higher than the the shaded side. I see the same effect just sitting in the driveway.
On a hot day, the the tire pressures can rise 10-psi or more. When checking the tire's temperature, with an infrared thermometer, 120-150 degrees is the normal range. 50 degrees above ambient is common.
The hotter the pavement, the hotter the tire.

Even with the TPMS, I check the tire temperature at stops, using an infrared thermometer.
Assuming the tire pressures are correct, become concerned when one tire is running much hotter than the others.
Also check the temperature of the brake rotors, to see if any are running hotter than the others

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Exhaust Pipe Heat Shield for Tires
Reply #57 –
I suspect there is some heating of the inside dual attributable to the exhaust pipe particularly when the vehicle stops with a hot exhaust system. On the occasion, I read about a grass fire being caused by a hot muffler.
The question  of course, is this heating significant enough to contribute to an increased risk of a blowout on that tire?
The E-450 chassis has been in production for a great many years. If a  pattern of blowouts of the inside tire could be demonstrated, I suspect Ford would have issued a technical service bulletin and redesigned the exhaust system to eliminate this risk in order to avoid costly lawsuits. Remember the Fireboom tire suits? 
There is no TSB and Ford has not changed the design. I suspect the increased risk, if any,  is negligible.

If anyone can round up the needed  proof, they could get rich suing Ford.

My unsupported opinion. 😉


Re: Exhaust Pipe Heat Shield for Tires
Reply #58 –
Bought a 1989 22' MP in 2015.

I was aware of the long standing practice regarding tire replacement at 6 years. I checked the existing tires, they were 6 years old at the time I purchased the rig. They looked excellent on visual, no weather checking and very minimal wear.

So, I rationalized.

"A 22' is LIGHT. Dual load range E tires are overkill for this thing. 6 years is a 1 size fits all recommendation, I can get another few years without a second thought due to the lighter duty. I'll swap them at 8 years."

In 2016, at 65 mph, 7 year old Inside rear passenger tire delaminated and came apart. Beat the hell out of the wheelwell (made of plywood). Barely kept on the road. Inspection of the tire confirmed no puncture, and knowing their age, I religiously inspected those tires at every fueling, checking pressure before every trip. No explanation other than deterioration due to age. 

I will be changing my tires at 6 years in the future and strongly recommending other people do the same. I'm a believer.
1989 MP
 
Re: Exhaust Pipe Heat Shield for Tires
Reply #59 –
OK, an installation post for the JEGS heat shields.  We are leaving for Idaho tomorrow and I wanted to make sure I had these installed before the trip so I could collect some temperature data.

1.  Raise your right rear duals on the highest leveling ramp/blocks you have.
2.  Block your front tires
3.  Crawl underneath or use a creeper.  Take with you the shield with clamps in the blocks, a slot-head screw driver and a 5/16" socket on a ratchet with a small extension.
4.  Start at the outside of the tail pipe and thread the first clamp through the outer-most gap between the LD compartment heat shield and the tail pipe.
5.  Position the shield with the shielding surface wrapping evenly and facing the tire.  Secure the first clamp.
6.  Move inboard and begin securing the next clamps at appropriate points along the tail pipe.  With the 3-foot shield you will have shielded your inboard dual up to the point where the tail pipe "dives" away from the coach undercarriage toward its run along the inboard dual.
7.  Make sure the clamps are secure and the heat shield faces the inboard dual tire.

Your work will go a lot easier if you us a motor-driven screw-and-socket driver like I've pictured below.

I'll report back with some temperature data after our road trip.  My mind is open but I cannot help possess a slight bias toward a belief that any shielding of the tail pipe at this location along the inboard dual will help ease heat stress on that specific tire.

Dan
2007 IB-30
Re: Exhaust Pipe Heat Shield for Tires
Reply #60 –
Quote from: dsandsaz  - 
OK, an installation post for the JEGS heat shields.  We are leaving for Idaho tomorrow and I wanted to make sure I had these installed before the trip so I could collect some temperature data.

1.  Raise your right rear duals on the highest leveling ramp/blocks you have.
2.  Block your front tires
3.  Crawl underneath or use a creeper.  Take with you the shield with clamps in the blocks, a slot-head screw driver and a 5/16" socket on a ratchet with a small extension.
4.  Start at the outside of the tail pipe and thread the first clamp through the outer-most gap between the LD compartment heat shield and the tail pipe.
5.  Position the shield with the shielding surface wrapping evenly and facing the tire.  Secure the first clamp.
6.  Move inboard and begin securing the next clamps at appropriate points along the tail pipe.  With the 3-foot shield you will have shielded your inboard dual up to the point where the tail pipe "dives" away from the coach undercarriage toward its run along the inboard dual.
7.  Make sure the clamps are secure and the heat shield faces the inboard dual tire.

Your work will go a lot easier if you us a motor-driven screw-and-socket driver like I've pictured below.

I'll report back with some temperature data after our road trip.  My mind is open but I cannot help possess a slight bias toward a belief that any shielding of the tail pipe at this location along the inboard dual will help ease heat stress on that specific tire.

Dan
Dan, is this what you used? JEGS Performance Products 32032: Heat Shield Mat 12" x 12" | JEGS  Also, it doesn't look like the worm screw clamps wrap around the shield, rather they are sandwiched between 2 layers??? Did you thread the clamps through something when installing?
Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Re: Exhaust Pipe Heat Shield for Tires
Reply #61 –
Blow out !

('til he gets back...)
Chip
2000 Front Lounge
Re: Exhaust Pipe Heat Shield for Tires
Reply #63 –
Our new heat shields have 1300 miles on them.
Using an infrared thermometer, the inside dual's side walls are running at near equal temps.
I'm happy

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Exhaust Pipe Heat Shield for Tires
Reply #64 –
Good news, Larry! 👍
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Exhaust Pipe Heat Shield for Tires
Reply #65 –
My inside right rear tire runs about 2 to 3 psi higher than the left inside rear tire. Based on the rise in tire pressures I see, I calculate the air in the inside right tire is 16 deg F to 24 deg hotter than the inside left rear tire. Here is the calculator I used (click "temperature" and note: the temperature must entered in Rankine or Kelvin, so 120 deg F = 459 + 120 = 579 deg Rankine):

Combined Gas Law Calculator - Calculates Volume, Pressure and Temperature

Is 24 deg F significant? I don't know, but maybe if you routinely travel in the summer in the hot desert areas, it might be. Travel on the cooler coasts where the air temperatures are much lower, probably not.

2005 Jayco 24SS
Re: Exhaust Pipe Heat Shield for Tires
Reply #66 –
Have returned from our trip which was the first using the newly installed heat shielding.  Here's my report.

I qualify this by saying that while my TPMS reads both pressure and temperature, I do not consider either to be accurate values that would be acceptable to the engineering types.  I know what my sensors show and I confirm that with a high quality pressure gauge and I also use an infrared non-contact thermometer to measure surface temps of tread and sidewalls.  These measurements are all RELATIVE.  I know the offsets and watch my sensor data for movement up or down, mentally doing the measured offsets.

The results:  I noticed a definite decrease in the sensor-reported temperature of the right inside dual with the heat shield installed.  When not sun exposed on the right side, my rear duals were often running very equally in temperature.  When sun exposed, the right outside dual temperature often exceeded that of the inside dual.  I rarely, if ever, observed those conditions before I installed the heat shield.  Overall, I believe the heat shield accounts for a 4 to 6 degree temperature drop, on average, of the inside right dual.  Keep in mind that a TPMS is reporting air temperature in the tire, not temperatures of the tread and sidewalls.  Those temperatures are running higher than the air temps inside the tires.  Again, its important to know your relative offsets between measurement of the sidewall and tread temperature versus the temperature reported by the sensor.

I think it is worthwhile to install some sort of heat shield along the exhaust pipe that is proximal to the right inside dual.  Whether you fabricate an aluminum shield like Larry's nice work or use something else, anything that can be done to relieve any heat or pressure stress on the inside duals is probably not a waste of effort.

The argument that neither Ford nor the LD factory saw fit to install shields at this location is a valid one and I won't offer any rebuttal.  Everyone's mileage will vary on this and the choice is yours.

Dan

2007 IB-30
Re: Exhaust Pipe Heat Shield for Tires
Reply #67 –
Quote from: dsandsaz  - 
Have returned from our trip which was the first using the newly installed heat shielding.  Here's my report. Dan

The TPMS sensors that screw on the valve stem measure some combination of the tire's air temperature and the outside temperature. For that reason, I think the best relative measurement of tire temperature changes comes from noting the change in a tire's pressure when cold and when driving.

How much did the pressure of the inside rear tire increase before you put the heat shield on? How much did it increase after you added the heat shield?
2005 Jayco 24SS
Re: Exhaust Pipe Heat Shield for Tires
Reply #68 –
My solution ... next Wednesday, Discount Tire is going to balance and rotate all the tires on our LD.  I'm planning on doing this every 10,000 miles.  As a result, the rear inside passenger side tire should only be exposed to higher exhaust temperatures for a relatively few miles before we buy new tires.   Of course, I'll asked the tire guys to inspect all the tires for any signs of problems to include uneven wear, thread separation, etc.  As most know, there's no charge for this service since I bought the tires from Discount Tire, although I tip each person involved in the work.    I have to admit that I still like the idea of adding the DEI 010452 Titanium Pipe Shield - Exhaust Heat Shield, 6" x 3'.
Re: Exhaust Pipe Heat Shield for Tires
Reply #69 –
I have read somewhere here that the Tireman sells a set of valve extenders with instructions for installation.  We are having our tires rotated soon and I would like to probably change out the extenders that Les Schwab put on last year about 10K miles ago.  They work fine and I am able to check pressure easily but don't remember if they are on metal or rubber stems.  I seem to remember that they are what they had at the time.  I have looked on line for the Tireman but don't see where these extenders kits or units for sale are.   There are Dicor Air Guard recommended on LD companion and Tireman but that tireman link does not work for me.  Any help Thanks!

      Karen~Liam
          26 ~ MB
1998 ~ MB  WanderDaze
previously a 1984 Winnebago itaska- The Road Warrior, before that several VW Buses and before that a 1965 Chrysler Convertible Newport or our 1969 Chrysler La Barron with an ice box and a couple sleeping bags
Re: Exhaust Pipe Heat Shield for Tires
Reply #70 –
Quote from: Karen & Liam  - 
I have read somewhere here that the Tireman sells a set of valve extenders with instructions for installation.  We are having our tires rotated soon and I would like to probably change out the extenders that Les Schwab put on last year about 10K miles ago.  They work fine and I am able to check pressure easily but don't remember if they are on metal or rubber stems.  I seem to remember that they are what they had at the time.  I have looked on line for the Tireman but don't see where these extenders kits or units for sale are.  There are Dicor Air Guard recommended on LD companion and Tireman but that tireman link does not work for me.  Any help Thanks!

      Karen~Liam
          26 ~ MB

Here's the correct link for the Tire Man Tire-Man: Home Page

Your best bet is to call Chuck Carvitto (the Tire Man) directly at 1-888-889-8996 to confirm you order the correct kit. Chuck has sold his shop and now only sells his all-metal Valve Stem Kits. Be advised they only make shipments once a week.

I just had one of his kits installed in July.

Charles
Harvest Hosts + Boondockers Welcome #23975
Escapees SKP #138195
2007 23.5' Twin King
Re: Exhaust Pipe Heat Shield for Tires
Reply #72 –
Thanks I know I need this!

   ~Liam
1998 ~ MB  WanderDaze
previously a 1984 Winnebago itaska- The Road Warrior, before that several VW Buses and before that a 1965 Chrysler Convertible Newport or our 1969 Chrysler La Barron with an ice box and a couple sleeping bags
Re: Exhaust Pipe Heat Shield for Tires
Reply #73 –

The question:
Is the location of the tire on a Ford E450 a issue for premature failure?

Problems for the study:
There are an infinite number of weight  and length configurations.   Even in my study the length will always be 26 ft but the weight can change daily. 
There are an infinite number of outside temperature ranges.   I traveled from mild summer low humidity to high summer high humidity.  And all various inbetween.
There are an infinite number of sun shine various. the sun can hit the tires at many unpredictable angles and unpredictable amounts of time.
I'm saying all that to say this is very far from a fact based study.   Results sadly on in the guessing range and probably only apply to me.
All that being said I have found the tires on the passenger rear side run about 5 to 10% higher on average.    This result is consistent across all variables.  
The question I have to ask myself is is worth putting a heat shield on the exhaust pipe to protect or expand the life on those tires.   A different maybe.   What I'm looking at is the product  Amazon.com: Thermo-Tec 11600 1' X 6" Pipe Shield: Automotive.
No a bad price to protect $200 tires.

glen

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personal fine art photo stuff
TF Mack | Flickr
It's all good .......
2014 Twin King
Re: Exhaust Pipe Heat Shield for Tires
Reply #74 –
A search of the forum should bring up a thread on heat shields from 1-2 years ago; I used the term, 'heat shield for tires' and many posts on this topic popped up.

There's not much that hasn't already been discussed, often multiple times, on this board.  ;)
2003 TK has a new home