Water filter June 11, 2017, 07:31:01 pm We are about to take off on a cross country trip to the east coast and the Maritime Provinces and would like to have some recommendations for a water filter. The one we have now, which needs replacement is a Camco, bought at the Mothership when we picked up our rig 2 years ago. The Camco filter is a 100 micron and doesn't say anything about being a bacterial filter. What are your suggestions for a filter and water purification?Ian & Jean, "Silver Fox", Seattle2015 27MB
Re: Water filter Reply #1 – June 11, 2017, 07:49:35 pm Ian and Jean,I posted the following in the Technical section thread "another Water pump thread"It is our practice to travel with a full tank of filtered water and only drink, wash and shower with water from the rig. When I get below one third of a tank, I refill the tank through a two canister filter. I have a 5 micron sediment filter to remove the big stuff like protozoans, algae, and hard sediments and a combo filter that has a carbon filter for chlorine and lead with a 0.5 micron filter to remove all bacteria, most cysts and some viruses. I use filters from this source. Cartridges for Standard Canisters: RV Water Filter StoreThey are geared to RV's and their prices are competitive. Customer service is excellent.We have had the personal experience of being in a camp in the northern Sierras in California where the municipal water was infected with Giardia. I had used the water in the camper, as I always do in camp, but my brother and his family drank and showered with the water from the faucet. Their entire family got Giardia, which is a pretty miserable experience. My family got Giardia while camping and it is an experience that we NEVER, EVER want to repeat! After that experience, all water that goes into our tank gets filtered. The likelihood of municipal, or well water being infected is low, but the infrequent possibility of getting Giardia, or most recently Cryptosporidium is absolutely not worth the trouble. Cryptosporidium is small, often not tested for in many communities, and doesn't get killed by many municipal treatment plants. It is becoming more prevalent every year.Communitywide cryptosporidiosis outbreak associated with a surface water-supp...Just my .02 and other's mileage will vary, but it is pretty easy to prevent waterborne illness.HD 3 Likes
Re: Water filter Reply #2 – June 11, 2017, 07:55:35 pm Ian & Jean,I've been using the "Camco Blue" since we got our rig. I'm not sure which direction I'd go from there, but I have been following Andy's suggestion of keeping a previously used Blue in the refrigerator until it's next use. This will forestall algae growth in the filter element that would otherwise grow quickly if kept in a storage bay (which I used to do). Joan had mentioned a popular filter a few days ago, and I found it available on Amazon and was ready to make the switch but for two reasons. 1) I don't believe it was designed to attach to a fresh water hose and 2) I didn't see any specifics as to the particulates it filtered. It only mentioned that it made the tap water taste fresh. So I'm with you. What alternatives are out there?Kent
Re: Water filter Reply #3 – June 11, 2017, 08:04:21 pm Harold,Can you provide some specifics on how the filtration system is implemented? Does it connect to the fresh water hose and fill the LD fresh water tank from the outside like the Camco Blue? I would prefer to filter the water completely prior to its introduction into my fresh water tank. While an under counter water filter may be desirable, I would think it best to keep any contaminants from ever entering the system. Kind of like preventative health. I believe this is the link to which you are referring ... RV Water Filter StoreKent
Re: Water filter Reply #4 – June 11, 2017, 08:37:33 pm Kent, Amazon doesn't have the Omnipure filter that I mentioned; the filter I use is the Omnipure K5667 inline filter. I don't order replacements with fittings because the brass fittings that came with the original filter I bought will last forever! This filter does remove sediment; in some product descriptions, this is stated. In others, that information is absent. I did order two K5667 filters from the RV Water Filter Store; I did not receive a call back from my inquiry (the former owner returned calls and answered emails promptly), but I went ahead and ordered as a "test case". If the service is unsatisfactory, I will find another vendor. I have no experience with Camco filters; the Omnipure inline filters work well, so unless there is are good reasons for changing brands, I'll stick with the Omnipure.YMMV, of course.
Re: Water filter Reply #5 – June 11, 2017, 08:58:39 pm Quote from: JCT - June 11, 2017, 08:37:33 pm "I don't order replacements with fittings because the brass fittings that came with the original filter I bought will last forever!""I have no experience with Camco filters; the Omnipure inline filters work well..."Joan,My mistake about the K5667 filter on Amazon. I saw the L5667BB in line filter and thought they were the same product. (Photo attached)Am I to understand then that the K5667 "in line" filter attaches to the "white" fresh water hose and fills the fresh water tank from outside the rig? I use brass screw on fittings and a quick release brass fitting on the Camco Blue filter which makes for a simple on & off attachment. I'm always open to improving on a good thing. Good advise from trusted friends is always helpful. I am curious about testing the water at the inside tap for contaminates and will have to do some research on that issue. As it stands, I have alternated between filtered water in the tank for traveling and chlorinated unfiltered tap water between journeys as a means of decontaminating (if necessary) the fresh water tank. We do use our fresh water tank for cooking and have never experienced any ill effects. Crossing my fingers really isn't good enough.Kent 1 Likes
Re: Water filter Reply #6 – June 11, 2017, 09:02:10 pm Yes Kent, that is the site I bought my filter from. (Sorry the link didn't cut and paste correctly when I brought it over from the other thread). I checked their prices against Amazon and several water filter sources and they are competitive and give really good customer service. Also, when I called and left a message with a question, the owner called me back the following day with great information and insights.The filter I assembled (you buy the pieces from the filter store and put it together at home. It is easy) connects to my water hose coming from the tap at the camp site hose bib. I then made a short (less than 10 foot section of hose with a little wiener at the end that connects to the clean side of the filter and fits into the fill-fitting on the Lazy Daze.I have a two cartridge system with a RV-SED5 sediment filter in the first canister. This filter takes the water down to 5 microns, which removes algae, protozoans, many bacteria, and all of the particulate junk coming in through the hose bib. This filter has really good flow and I have checked the filter element several times visually and measured the flow and it is still up to specs.My second canister originally had a CBC-KDF filter element. I initially liked the combination of the carbon filter to remove lead, chlorine and hydrogen sulfide tastes, as well as the .5 micron filtration element with a bacteriastatic feature. This filter will essentially remove anything that we don't want in our bodies including viruses, and cysts. Unfortunately, this filter also tends to plug up if you don't store it properly and mine plugged completely in three months and less than 300 gallons of water. I replaced this filter with a F1pb .5 micron filter. This is also a combo carbon filter element that removes all chlorine, lead, H2S taste, and any particles larger than 1/2 micron, so virus and cysts are eliminated. The flow rate is higher and it isn't affected as much by how you store it. So far I think it is great.I will share that I worked as a seasonal technical writer for a summer for the San Diego County Water Authority looking at contamination present in municipal water sources at various homes and sites with increasing distance from the treatment plant. After that summer, I ALWAYS filter our drinking water in the house, RV, and boat. It is amazing how much E.coli bacteria (an indicator of fecal coliform contamination) was present in tap water at that time, and I suspect things haven't changed much. That stuff shouldn't be in our water and the levels weren't high, but any is too much. In addition, I don't believe that many municipalities test for Cryptosporidium, which is really small and not killed by the chlorine levels used in municipal water systems. Cryptosporidium with make you REALLY sick. My little filter removes all of that stuff.The filter with its two canisters and a pressure regulator and the two hoses fit in a little rubbermaid tub and I keep it in the aft stbd outside storage compartment. (I also keep a couple of rolls of teflon tape to reduce leaks) All water that goes into the rig gets filtered.Harold 1 Likes
Re: Water filter Reply #7 – June 11, 2017, 09:26:19 pm Harold,Thanks. Always safe...never sorry. Great input, thanks.So here's a question. As Andy has stated previously about refrigerating the filter elements, do you suggest that with your system this will not be necessary?Ready to make a clean sweep.Kent
Re: Water filter Reply #8 – June 11, 2017, 09:35:21 pm It seems like it would be a good idea to slow any algae or bacterial growth in the dormant filter, but it will take up a lot of space in the fridge. I have a sediment filter, a carbon canister, and a RO unit under our kitchen sink and I have the tech come out and check the water quality (TDS) every year in the fall and it seems to do its job without any refrigeration. I'm going to just leave the filter in the storage compartment and run water through it periodically.I understand Joan's frustration at the turn-around time for answers from the Water Filter Store. It made me a little cranky when I just left several messages on a Friday afternoon, but he called me back a day or two (Monday or Tuesday?) later and answered my questions and gave some good suggestions.Harold
Re: Water filter Reply #9 – June 11, 2017, 11:58:39 pm Harold,I'm wondering if vacuum sealing the filters might serve a similar function as refrigeration. Vacuum seal bags come in rolls and could provide some of the protection we need for the RV filters or at least postpone any algae growth. Perhaps the filtration canisters you use are less susceptible to algae growth all together. Curious...research time...I'm not sure but it would make sense that an active filtration system for a home would be a different animal than a RV installation as the water would not have time to sit fallow and create a growth medium for algae.I'll leave this to those in the know. In the meantime I'll hit the web and do my homework. Kent
Re: Water filter Reply #10 – June 12, 2017, 12:46:52 pm Quote from: JCT - June 11, 2017, 08:37:33 pmI have no experience with Camco filters; the Omnipure inline filters work well, so unless there is are good reasons for changing brands, I'll stick with the Omnipure..Both my wife and myself have suffered from water borne illnesses before...never again, if possible.We used a Nature Pure filter for years until the faucet and canister failed, several years ago. The marine replacement was over $600, at the time, and was the only choice offered by General Ecology.That's when we switched to the Omnipure filter. It has worked fine, at a much lower cost.Nature Pure now has a cheaper replacement that I would consider, if doing it again.Nature Pure QC2 Purifier with Faucet - Water Purifiers and Water Micro...General Ecology has produced high-end filters for decades, we used their backpacking filters for many years.Whatever you buy, make sure it can remove Giardia. While it is a fantastic way to quickly lose a lot of weight, it is a terrible disease.Larry 1 Likes
Re: Water filter Reply #11 – June 12, 2017, 02:13:41 pm I fully agree with Larry about Giardia. What a terrible bug, but it is an interesting little protozoan. The adult and the cyst kindly stay in the intestine and don't get into the blood or joints the way some other microscopic parasites do. But they sure wreak havoc in the intestines! The adult stage (Trophozoite) is 12 - 15 microns in length and the cyst stage is 6 - 10 microns in diameter. In theory, any good 5 micron filter should remove Giardia. However, Cryptosporidium is 4 - 6 microns in diameter and can slip through the 5 micron filter. Crypto can make you REALLY sick as well. My money bought a 5 micron sediment filter and a .5 micron secondary filter.For what it is worth, you can't always avoid waterborne illnesses, even here in the United Sates. My family had a nice dinner at a (now closed) El Torrito restaurant here in town. My son and I ate the "fresh salsa" and contracted Giardia, Entamoeba, Blastocystis, and two other Central American protozoan parasites. I was really sick for over a month. My son was sick for nearly three years directly from this visit. Once the diagnosis and source was established, my family physician said, tongue in cheek, that one of the Central American workers in the restaurant kitchen had "really crappy hygiene". Yuck! This is a constant threat in restaurants when one lives close to the border.The two canister system that I put together cost me about $100. It is money well spent.
Re: Water filter Reply #12 – June 12, 2017, 06:36:28 pm Here is some interesting data and news on the Blue Camco water filter.The Complete Guide to RV Water Filtration - Trek With UsInteresting read. I actually haven't read everything in the link, but it does have some useful information.Hope this answers some of our concerns.Kent
Re: Water filter Reply #13 – June 12, 2017, 10:30:06 pm The drawback of the Camco filter with a filtration level of 100 microns and larger makes it completely unsafe for the removal of ANY protozoans (Giardia, Cryptosporidium, or amoebas), bacteria or viruses. What is the point? Makes the water taste better? Large rocks and small animals? We used to use the Camco filter until we read more about it, and then we went to a two canister filter.Their statement that there really isn't any danger of protozoan parasites in municipal water systems has been shown to be patently incorrect on many studies and occasions. Cryptosporidium does show up in municipal water systems and well water. In the following article, note the last paragraph that states that Cryptosporidiium is "extremely tolerant of chlorine in water treatment".Cryptosporidium (Crypto) and Drinking Water from Private Wells | Wells |...In the following article, two municipal water systems are identified that were infected with Cryptosporidium and the one in Milwaukee infected 400,000 people. The water filtration methods were operational but did not prevent the protozoan from passing through the system into the water and infecting the customers.SL130/SS189: Cryptosporidium : A Waterborne PathogenThe two canister system that Trek with Us recommends will do the job. I would recommend that the second filter be a .5 micron combination carbon filter for good measure. It doesn't cost significantly more and, in reality, it doesn't clog significantly faster than a 1 micron filter.My .02.Harold 1 Likes
Re: Water filter Reply #14 – June 13, 2017, 10:09:06 am "Their statement that there really isn't any danger of protozoan parasites in municipal water systems has been shown to be patently incorrect on many studies and occasions."----Agreed; municipal water systems are definitely not immune to contamination, not only from giardia, crypto, and other nasty gut bugs, but also from E. coli. I suppose that one could just go with beer like many of our ancestors did; not good for the dog, and coffee would be pretty weird, but no bugs! 2 Likes
Re: Water filter Reply #15 – June 13, 2017, 10:54:51 am Coffee made with beer could also be awesome. I'll let you know in a minute......Nope.Chip 5 Likes
Re: Water filter Reply #16 – June 13, 2017, 11:17:18 am That's funny. Maybe adding a little Irish Whisky would be better? 1 Likes
Re: Water filter Reply #17 – June 13, 2017, 11:32:34 am Since everything is better with bacon, how about bacon beer? Voodoo Doughnut Maple Bacon Ale | Rogue Ales | BeerAdvocateHmmm, wonder if there is bacon flavored coffee . . .? 1 Likes
Re: Water filter Reply #18 – June 13, 2017, 11:40:10 am And here we go!One of my former colleagues did a fun study around Christmas some years back. He made fresh eggnog with varying levels of rum and plated each drink to detect live bacteria. He found that to kill all of the bacteria with the alcohol in the rum, they had to be pretty potent.Fun study and great presentation. Potent egg nogs all around after his presentation!To heck with the filtration. Its about the additives!Harold 3 Likes
Re: Water filter Reply #19 – June 13, 2017, 12:18:18 pm The important element of this thread is the filtration size in microns and what the filter system can and can not do.Awareness of the inherent risks involved with filling the fresh water tank from varying fresh water sources is key. Off the shelf in-line water filters don't appear to provide the protection that would meet many of our concerns. Harold's input on the matter has greatly increased my awareness of the situation and the Camco Blue will soon be a thing of the past for this LD owner. I like DIY projects so this will be fun.As has been mentioned, some filters store outside of refrigeration without the worry of algae growth. In a two filter system such as Harold's, it would seem that the more vulnerable filter element could be removed from its canister and stored in the refridgerator. Currently my Camco Blue sits idle for weeks at a time so for me preserving a better filter only makes sense.Next step...building that better mouse trap.Kent
Re: Water filter Reply #20 – June 13, 2017, 02:43:58 pm Quote from: JCT - June 13, 2017, 10:09:06 amI suppose that one could just go with beer like many of our ancestors did; not good for the dog, and coffee would be pretty weird, but no bugs! The old timers tell tales of 3.2 beer as the NCO approved hydration beverage of choice in 'Nam, because the amount of chlorine required to render water safe made it a little poisonous. 🤔 2 Likes
Re: Water filter Reply #21 – June 14, 2017, 06:02:28 pm I just got off the phone with Dave at RV Water Filter Store. He actually picked up the phone after I rung back a second time. NOTE: You must already know that I have no stake in this company and am forwarding this information only to make our lives easier and healthier.He is a very knowledgeable professional and answered all my questions. I will be ordering the following system per his recommendation: The dual canister 10" B2418 ($104.95) includes a 1.0 micron sediment filter and a 0.5 micron F1Pb Combo Filter. I believe an additional sediment filter is included.His rational on the 1.0 micron vs. the 5.0 micron sediment filter is that the smaller micron size will keep more "crude" from causing premature failure of the 2nd stage 0.5 micron filter.The water flow rate of this system is set at 3-4 gallons per minute when used in conjunction with a 55 PSI regulator. Refill Kit AA1209 includes two 1.0 micron sediment filters and one 0.5 Combo Filter. At $26.95 I'll be purchasing two refill kits. I also asked about storing the filter system out of refrigeration. He recommends disassembling and draining each filter prior to reassembly and storage if the system will be off line for a month or more. That was good news.I also asked about depending on an under the counter filtration system and not filtering the water prior to filling the fresh water tank. His take was as mine. To do so could set your fresh water tank up as a possible breeding ground for water born bacteria (all those nasties that have been mentioned) and sediment buildup.I hope this information helps those who are looking to ditch the Camco Blue. I know am. By the way, turn around time for delivery was estimated to be under a week.I can't wait to drain and fill my tanks as I prep for Yellowstone next month.Kent 7 Likes
Re: Water filter Reply #22 – June 14, 2017, 06:22:58 pm "The old timers tell tales of 3.2 beer as the NCO approved hydration beverage of choice in 'Nam, because the amount of chlorine required to render water safe made it a little poisonous."----3.2 beer and "Near Beer" have been around for a long time; this link tells the difference. I'm with Waverly Root; near beer is repulsive. So is gluten-free beer, and 3.2 beer isn't worth the effort of uncapping a bottle.APIS - 3.2% BeerNo beer now, but fond memories of quite a few well-crafted IPAs!
Re: Water filter Reply #23 – June 14, 2017, 06:35:49 pm As kids we were weaned on Near Beer, but honestly it was definitely an acquired taste. Old Milwaukee and Hamms found its way into many a cooler back in the day. Now it's Coors Stubbies. A 12 pack of glass makes for a great chill factor for the RV's fridge. Still think filtering the fresh water tank is a good idea since the most I drink now-a-days is a 12oz. Certainly not enough alcohol to kill off any unfriendlies that may be lurking in the FW tank.Kent
Re: Water filter Reply #24 – June 15, 2017, 10:00:16 am Kent,Sounds like you are putting together an effective filtration system. I'm glad Dave was helpful. He was helpful for me also. Having a effective filtration system adds to our confidence when using the water in our rig in areas where the water is suspect, especially campgrounds that draw well water.When you drain and refill your tank, you might consider refilling it and adding a disinfectant to sanitize the system. Pump the sanitized water through all of the faucets and the shower and then drain again prior to filling with your purified water for your trip. That way you don't bring any residual contaminants with you on your trip. I've used a dilute bleach mix, but it sometimes leaves a slight residual taste. For a trivial fee, West Marine sells a small bottle of water shock additive that I can't taste and I've been using that more recently. I think you have a West Marine at Alamitos Bay.I'm looking forward to seeing your pictures from Yellowstone. Hopefully a few of them will have a steaming cup of coffee and maybe a doughnut, or two.Two weeks until we are off to the Olympic Peninsula. Wax is finished. Lazy Daze goes in for alignment on Monday with full fuel, full water and full propane. The solar light goes into the shower skylight after that. High grade bolts in the hitch after that. A few more projects to go...Harold 2 Likes
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