The Ups And Downs Of Cab AC's June 05, 2017, 05:42:06 pm Just dropped our '15 RB off at Caruso Ford Truck Center here in Long Beach. That "Darned Cab AC" is acting up again.Last March while driving to Yosemite and shortly after bouncing about on the rough sections of I-5 out of Los Angeles, the day began to warm. Time for some AC up front...not. All I got was warm air. The weeks and months prior to this the AC was a champion. Now it's a blasted inferno.Spent a wonderful week in Yosemite and on the journey home I turned on the cab AC for a test. Brrrr...Darned thing ran fine all the home and during weekly tests at home...until one day while testing and maintaining the LD systems it gave up the ghost again. Gremlins? Bad relay or AC pump? Concerned, I decided to take it back in. California's Lemon Law may kick in (right) and this will be strike two. But wait! You guessed it...its been working again in the past couple of weeks and also today on the way over to Ford. Oscar, the service manager was a bit taken aback...My Toyotas all have flawless ACs. Is this common with Ford trucks? I've only put 8,000 miles on the LD and the AC is certainly not living up to LD standards. I'll see what happens in the next few days. Any thoughts or similar experiences on the other late model e450 AC's out there? Maybe the Ford Tech's could use some Top Tips. I certainly can.Chillin' but not in the LD.Kent
Re: The Ups And Downs Of Cab AC's Reply #1 – June 05, 2017, 05:55:13 pm Maybe this might help?http://www.autozone.com/landing/page.jsp?name=diagnose-auto-ac-problem 2 Likes
Re: The Ups And Downs Of Cab AC's Reply #2 – June 05, 2017, 08:40:24 pm Joan,Thanks. I've bookmarked this for the appropriate time. After the warranty expires. In the meantime, I have been reading along with great interest. While it may not be Rocket Science, AC systems have their own unique set of challenges. Kent
Re: The Ups And Downs Of Cab AC's Reply #3 – June 05, 2017, 11:03:39 pm Although I am no AC tech by any stretch of the imagination, your solicitation for thoughts made for the following. Please disregard any/all that you have already explored.Compressor - Is it cycling? Does it "pick up" when the AC is selected to be on? There should be a fused relay in line with the solenoid. The solenoid is spring loaded. There's actually an air gap adjustment that can be made if it is determined that you have the infamously "weak" solenoid.Charge - Too much or too little, there are both low & high pressure cut-off switches.Switches - There are quite a few (in addition to the two previously mentioned) any one of which shuts down the compressor and may result in undesirable cycling.If the compressor is "picked up", do the high pressure lines get hot and low pressure get cool? Is condensation dripping underneath from the evaporator?Are all other HVAC systems operating correctly? There's just a nightmarish wad of vacuum lines with several junction points...I haven't had a newer vehicle with all the electronic controls (dual zone climate control, etc..), but it may be that the system is operating exactly as a faulty circuit board/cold solder joint dictatesNone of which should be your primary concern ('15)...you've paid for the best and should have it in short order! Terribly frustrating I'm sure. If it's of any consolation, until recently I had 3 Fords all of which were > 15 yrs old and none of which required more than the occasional R134 canister (because that's cheaper/easier than trying to locate & fix a leak).Although being intermittent is certainly infuriating it may be that it points to a relatively simple, albeit not that easy to diagnose, problem.Just some thoughts... 2 Likes
Re: The Ups And Downs Of Cab AC's Reply #4 – June 05, 2017, 11:57:32 pm Kent,When the AC on our Toyota Sienna failed, the dealership quoted us a price that might have been a down payment on a modest house when we were first married. I took the car to an independent shop for a second opinion, and the guy asked if I was willing to pay $18 to put in a relay that may or may not fix the problem. I paid it, he did it, and it has worked fine ever since. Repair with labor was less than $50.The AC in my Ford F350 has worked well for 15 years. Having dealt with the Lemon Law in the past, it is a messy business. Take it in to the dealer and complain so it is on record as having been a problem during the warrantee period and keep the paperwork. Intermittent problems are really hard to diagnose. Then when it fails for good, take it to a good tech to fix the problem and then continue to enjoy your rig. That's my .02.HD 1 Likes
Re: The Ups And Downs Of Cab AC's Reply #5 – June 06, 2017, 12:02:43 am Ray,Frustration with intermittent AC operation is spot on. The first time the AC failed the LD was 5 months old. After its first "fix" at Ford, it was golden for 12 months. Since this March it has failed twice and self corrected itself each time. Is it as cold as it should be? I am not certain at this point, although I do know at one point the cab AC was powerful enough to cool the coach.I'll bookmark this thread for future reference if the current fix doesn't stick.As I mentioned earlier, I've never experienced this issue with my other cars so I've never had to delve deeply into the AC inner workings.I'd rather it just keep working and avoid any lemon issues. If only things could be that simple.Kent
Re: The Ups And Downs Of Cab AC's Reply #6 – June 06, 2017, 12:11:03 am I know this isn't very helpful, but our old Toyota has my favorite AC that ALWAYS works.Hot? Roll down the window. (manual hand cranks with good, old fashioned window regulators!) Not cool enough? Push open the little kick vents down by the floor.Still not cool enough? Reach into the cooler, take out a cold soda and put it in your shirt. That is as cold as it gets.HD 3 Likes
Re: The Ups And Downs Of Cab AC's Reply #7 – June 06, 2017, 12:21:28 am Harold,Back in my V Dub days it was the venerable 2-65 AC. As dependable as it gets. It was that or a spray bottle of water into the open wind wing (if it would stay open). "Keep it simple, stupid" technology is often the best. It's also something I'm really good at. 🤓Kent 2 Likes
Re: The Ups And Downs Of Cab AC's Reply #8 – June 06, 2017, 07:31:30 am Kent,Our LD is a 2003 and for the most part the cab AC had worked very well. But on two occasions, I thought it had failed. Both times we were very off the beaten path and driving very slowly, probably under 20mph and at a fairly high elevation. Nothing but warm air coming out of the ducts. As soon as we got back on an actual paved surface and higher speed, the AC cooled down.Perhaps the cooling system had shut down the AC due to engine temp or rpm? I don't know.Would "Lemon Law" kick in on an RV in Ca.? I have thought "Lemon Law" usually addressed safety/serious issues, not comfort. Good luck,Steve K. 1 Likes
Re: The Ups And Downs Of Cab AC's Reply #9 – June 06, 2017, 08:12:22 am Kent,Because the AC system works well when it comes on, it doesn't sound like a refrigeration system problem. It sounds more like an electrical problem, relay, loose connection or failing switch maybe? 2 Likes
Re: The Ups And Downs Of Cab AC's Reply #10 – June 06, 2017, 08:21:26 am Quote from: Steve K. - June 06, 2017, 07:31:30 amWould "Lemon Law" kick in on an RV in Ca.? I have thought "Lemon Law" usually addressed safety/serious issues, not comfort.I wondered the same thing as I wasn't sure if it would cover a motorhome but it does. Page 8 of the document below explains what's covered. I'm not quite sure if a 2015 model is still considered "new" but it may depend on when Kent first brought it in to the dealer for repairs.Page 13 covers possible resolutions. Because it's a motorhome, possible awards are limited since I don't think you can replace the vehicle like you would a car. Anyway, let's hope it doesn't come to that.http://www.dca.ca.gov/acp/pdf_files/englemn.pdfKent, sorry to hear about the AC issue and hope it gets resolved to your satisfaction! 1 Likes
Re: The Ups And Downs Of Cab AC's Reply #11 – June 06, 2017, 11:44:46 am Reminds me of a problem a factory rep was having with adjustments on a wafer handling tool. The factory setup in Massachusetts, and San Diego (me) worked fine. It used vacuum to sense the presence of wafers. A machine, delivered to a customer in Colorado, wouldn't work reliably. I said " you can't get the vacuum levels you are expecting in Colorado. The values in the book have to be different because of the altitude." I wonder if altitude may be affecting your Air Conditioning system. Hard to test that in Long Beach, at sea level. RonB
Re: The Ups And Downs Of Cab AC's Reply #12 – June 06, 2017, 12:07:07 pm Quote from: krmugn - June 06, 2017, 08:12:22 amBecause the AC system works well when it comes on, it doesn't sound like a refrigeration system problem. It sounds more like an electrical problem, relay, loose connection or failing switch maybe?My thoughts exactly.Locating the problem can be difficult unless it presents itself at a opportune time, when you can use a voltmeter and start tracing the fault. A Factory wiring manual is helpful. There are low and high pressure bypass switches that can be bad or intermittent.As asked previously, is the A/C compressor spinning, when the A/C is turned on and isn't producing cold?Larry
Re: The Ups And Downs Of Cab AC's Reply #13 – June 06, 2017, 12:12:33 pm "I have thought "Lemon Law" usually addressed safety/serious issues, not comfort."----AFAIK, this statement is true; trying to get redress is also apparently a very difficult and time-consuming process requiring that an owner provide documentation of repeated efforts to remedy the problem. And, I really doubt that an issue with the cab AC would qualify labeling a vehicle as a "lemon". Did the Ford service center search for any TSBs on the problem? Maybe there is another Ford service center that can accurately diagnose and repair the issue? (Warranty work is "lost" revenue to a shop, but some are better than others at holding up their end of the deal.)Good luck with getting this resolved.
Re: The Ups And Downs Of Cab AC's Reply #14 – June 06, 2017, 12:38:25 pm Ron,Very interesting. Altitude plays havoc with many consumer products. I believe Plasma Televisions had issues at higher altitudes when they were first introduced to the consumer market. Not sure how they perform today or if you can even buy one. LCD/LED seems to have taken over the market.Living on the coast at sea level the AC has been acting up just sitting in the driveway. I'm hoping that it's simply a relay but you never know in cases like this. Ford is most likely scratching their collective heads at this very moment.Either that or they're on a coffee break.Keeping my fingers crossed.Kent
Re: The Ups And Downs Of Cab AC's Reply #15 – June 06, 2017, 12:54:14 pm When we had to deal with the Lemon Law, the deciding factor was how many different times and how many days the dealership had the vehicle in their service bay. If I recall correctly, in our case, the truck had spent nearly 90 days at the shop (Drew Ford in San Diego) in a little over a year with multiple visits to unsuccessfully or marginally repair the same problems. I was pretty angry. My delicate and demure bride was ready to beat the crap out of the dealership GM. I used the truck for work, so their little loaner car wasn't much help during all the days the truck was down. We kept meticulous records of everything.In the end, it was easier to work with the dealership GM and owner, Joe Drew, to find a mutually agreeable solution. We returned my truck, Drew gave us credit for the deposit and payments I had made on the flawed truck against the fleet price of a new similar truck and we left with a new truck that was relatively reliable for the next 140K miles.Although unpleasant and time-consuming, this was all easier than going through the process to use the Lemon Law and we may not have ended up with an acceptable truck. Considering the stipulations of the law, it may not be a good solution for your Lazy Daze.HD
Re: The Ups And Downs Of Cab AC's Reply #16 – June 06, 2017, 12:54:41 pm Ten years of traveling in a 1985 TK with no A/C of any kind taught us a few tricks. Most of the time, we were not in areas where A/C was needed, but chugging up to The Grand Canyon from SE Arizona in about 1994 pushed us to the limit. We resorted to turning on the heater to relieve heat from the engine - that was REALLY hot coming onto the passenger side. Another ploy was to wet down lightweight, white hand towels and drape them over the legs and left arm of the driver - sunburn was also a factor to consider, as well as the extreme heat coming from the heater onto his shins. Water sprayed on the back of the tee shirt and directly onto the driver's neck, also helped. Needless to say, chugalugging water was mandatory.For extra fun, there was a bee that got inside the cab and between the driver's back and the front of the seat - and yes, the bee took out his annoyance in the usual way. Look in the dictionary under "mayhem" to see what ensued. By the time we got up to the Jacob Lake campground, it was almost dark, and blessedly cooler at that elevation, but the inside of the motorhome was beastly hot by then. We hiked around outside for quite a while before it was possible to go back inside to fix dinner.This was much more fun in the retelling than it was in person! ;-> Virtual hugs,Judie <-- Sierra Vista, ArizonaAdventures of Dorrie Anne | Photographing the WestToday: How to Make Your Tastebuds Sing with Delight*************************************************** 2 Likes
Re: The Ups And Downs Of Cab AC's Reply #17 – June 06, 2017, 01:04:05 pm On the same note, I have toured the southwest on a motorcycle in the summer on numerous occasions over the years. The worst day was over 110 degrees in the Sierra foothills in stop and go city traffic, and I nearly passed out at the entrance to Zion, in a long line of cars idling and dumping out exhaust and hot air with an ambient temp of 0ver 100 degrees. Arizona, Utah and the California deserts are a special treat at mid-day in the summer on a motorcycle.My trick was to soak a T shirt at gas stations every 60 miles or so and then wear it under my protective suit, and open all of the suit vents and zippers. In addition, I wear a bandana that has two layers and can be opened up and loaded with ice, which cools my neck and carotid arteries.Kent, you'll look great in your Lazy Daze with a wet T shirt and ice filled bandana!Our solution now is to drive the Lazy Daze and pull the bike behind in a trailer!HD
Re: The Ups And Downs Of Cab AC's Reply #18 – June 06, 2017, 01:28:31 pm HD"...gave us credit for the deposit and payments I had made on the flawed truck against the fleet price of a new similar truck and we left with a new truck..."All well and good for a total vehicle but what about a motorhome? So Ford provides a new truck chassis but what about the coach part? Lazy Daze is not going to make you whole!
Re: The Ups And Downs Of Cab AC's Reply #19 – June 06, 2017, 02:48:05 pm An interesting side note to this whole issue is the fact that the current Ford e450 chassis is a replacement chassis for the original that was sent to the Mothership for my 27' RB.It makes me wonder what was wrong with the first chassis that Ford delivered to LD. I only received a letter in the mail with a new chassis vin# and a note from LD. " Due to circumstances beyond our control, we are providing you with a new vin # to replace the original chassis vin#". I never found out what happened to the other one.My brother and I had actually taken pics of the first chassis. One with me sitting behind the wheel. Maybe I broke it. Oops.And so it goes.Kent 1 Likes
Re: The Ups And Downs Of Cab AC's Reply #20 – June 06, 2017, 04:07:51 pm "I only received a letter in the mail with a new chassis vin# and a note from LD. " Due to circumstances beyond our control, we are providing you with a new vin # to replace the original chassis vin#". I never found out what happened to the other one."---Maybe "crossed wires" at LD and the chassis originally designated for you was mistakenly assigned to another customer with a different floor plan and the build on the unit started before the error was realized?
Re: The Ups And Downs Of Cab AC's Reply #21 – June 06, 2017, 04:44:36 pm Hard to say. I know only this. I received the letter that our chassis had arrived. My brother and I went right over and took a look at it. Todd said my chassis was sixth in line for their build schedule. He then led us to my chassis.Probably no more than a week later I received the letter about the change in my vin #.No big deal actually but it was my understanding that the original chassis had been returned to Ford (perhaps it was they who had preassigned that chassis to Thor or anther manufacturer). One way or another we have a beautiful RB sitting at Ford for AC work. Maybe they wanted that chassis back too.Kent
Re: The Ups And Downs Of Cab AC's Reply #22 – June 07, 2017, 08:45:58 pm Picked up the LD from Ford today and to my dismay the AC ran like a champ.Outdoor temp was 80 and the AC was blowing 45 degrees according to the techs. That's great news although this meant that other than running the AC for an hour without an issue they ran no other tests on the electronics as far as I can tell. Nothing of that nature was noted on the work order other than my comments about the inconsistent AC operation.Oscar at Caruso Ford suggested that the next time it happens I should bring it right in. That could be rather difficult if I'm a thousand miles away and no Ford Truck Center is around. Oh well, at least it works. And I did get the oil changed. So there's that anyway.Thanks for all your suggestions. I'm leaning toward electronics and perhaps an AC specialist. And so it goes...Kent 2 Likes
Re: The Ups And Downs Of Cab AC's Reply #23 – June 08, 2017, 11:33:22 am RE: "Oscar at Caruso Ford suggested that the next time it happens I should bring it right in. That could be rather difficult if I'm a thousand miles away and no Ford Truck Center is around."That's the value I see to sharing reliable/satisfactory service center info on this site--& even more so for those of us who are not technowizards. As far as "a thousand miles away," Merle Kelley Ford in Chanute, KS, has been outstanding for me (I trust them much more than my small-town Ford dealership)--they spent the better part of two days tracking my backup light gremlins last year (we discovered the problem when I went inside to move the driver's side mattress to give them better access as they were tracing wiring & found a switch under the outside corner of the bunk--arrrgh); I did get an oil change while I was there, but the GM only charged me half of the shop fees for the time I was in there (I expected it to be way over $1K, but hadn't asked, 'cause it wasn't something I even knew how to start tracing, but he said he didn't feel comfortable charging the full rate when they didn't really "find or fix anything"...even though it was a hellacious scavenger hunt).Good luck, Kent. You're in my thoughts as the AC in my stix 'n brix is acting up; we're getting 90s for the weekend/next week, so the tech is coming tomorrow--wet towels & a fan don't do much when our Missouri humidity is in the 75-80% range...
Re: The Ups And Downs Of Cab AC's Reply #24 – June 08, 2017, 12:00:42 pm Lynne,I remember you hunt for the hidden switch. Amazing how some things just pop up out of nowhere.I hope the fix for my AC rears its head soon. Perhaps my gremlins have been scared away. Best of luck with you home AC. About time for an upgrade around this old house too.Kent 1 Likes
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