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Topic: '92 LD 23.5 New house batteries not charging (Read 265 times) previous topic - next topic
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'92 LD 23.5 New house batteries not charging
Hi folks! 

I dropped out for a bit busy selling my house, downsizing and fixing up my new-to-me LD. So now I'm on my maiden voyage!  I spent 5.5k in repairs/upgrades/mods incl. new tires, repaired and updated cab a/c, turned overcab into storage, carpenter will build new bed and desk in the lounge next week, after which I'll install vinyl flooring. She's a beauty!  I passed another LD on my way into Lake/pond Casitas, but I digress☺

I drove for about 5 hrs yesterday with fridge running on 12v, yet house batteries did not charge.  If the sensor is working (grey tank sensor not accurate) what would cause the batteries not to charge on such a long drive? Two sealed AGM batteries that mechanic says are new.  I found threads about house batteries not charging, but I don't think they applied to my situation.  How can I isolate the problem if the sensor proves to be accurate?  Odd thing is, I've been using the lights off and on for 5 weeks and the sensor light has been dropping, so I'm thinking it's ok.  I may very well go to the Mothership if it's an electrical issue. 

Thanks, as always!😊

Mimi
Save a life.
Adopting a pet is the closest a human
will ever come to choosing a relative.
hsus.org  aspca.org
1992 Lazy Daze T/K  23.5' Ford 460 c.i.d./7.6 liter V8 engine, electronic fuel injection, E4OD 4-speed auto transmission
Full time 6/2017
 
Re: '92 LD 23.5 New house batteries not charging
Reply #1 –

Mimi, I would run the new LD again, for at least that long, but without the fridge in 12v. In fact, on my old co ch I no longer trust the 12v side, just stay with gas.

Are you comfortable using a volt meter? If not, try one like this- Amazon.com: INNOVA 3721 Battery and Charging System Monitor: Automotive

I make sure there is no load at all on the batteries overnight, then test voltage first thing in the AM.  Here is a table to use- http://modernsurvivalblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/battery-state-of-charge.jpg

This is not the best way. Nor the only way, just a way to get a rough idea. Longer term you will be well served with a good battery monitor installed, like the one Andy has recommended, especially since you are full timing  - Amazon.com : Balmar 44-SG-12/24 Smartgauge Batt Monitor 12/24V : Sports &...

As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Paul
'92 Mid Bath
Re: '92 LD 23.5 New house batteries not charging
Reply #2 –
Thank you Paul.  I'll get a volt meter and check it  the morning after I get it.  I'll let you in on a secret, I don't know how to use a voltmeter😕  I'll investigate😊  How can I keep the fridge cool while driving or, is it good enough to keep it closed after cooling it the day before?

I'm not fulltiming yet, but will be as soon as I finish the inside - hoping a couple of weeks. 

I'm embarrassed to ask but, what am I looking for when I test the batteries with a voltmeter?  If the batteries test ok, and they charge with the generator but not while driving, does that mean an electrical problem? 

Thanks so much.  So sorry for my delay in responding.h






Save a life.
Adopting a pet is the closest a human
will ever come to choosing a relative.
hsus.org  aspca.org
1992 Lazy Daze T/K  23.5' Ford 460 c.i.d./7.6 liter V8 engine, electronic fuel injection, E4OD 4-speed auto transmission
Full time 6/2017
Re: '92 LD 23.5 New house batteries not charging
Reply #3 –
Quote from: paul banbury  - 
Longer term you will be well served with a good battery monitor installed, like the one Andy has recommended, especially since you are full timing  - Amazon.com : Balmar 44-SG-12/24 Smartgauge Batt Monitor 12/24V : Sports &...
While the Balmar battery monitor looks good at first glance, it's  a "Black Box" with no information on how it actually calculates how much battery capacity is available, only the Factory knows how it works.
There has only been one review of it, done back in 2014.
Researching it, I could find nothing else, including boating and cruising magazines, whom should be very interested in such a device. 
I would like to see test results from more than one person, preferably, from a certified test facility and not a vendor.
It may be great device but Balmar should have independent test results available, from more than one lab, verifying its accuracy and dependability. This is even more important when something uses a 'secret' technology.

I have used shunt-type battery capacity monitors for two decades with good results. They are a long-term, proven way of measuring battery capacity and usage.
Presently, I recommend the Victron BMV-702
Victron BMV-702 Battery Monitor - - Amazon.com

Larry
As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: '92 LD 23.5 New house batteries not charging
Reply #4 –
Mimi,

Paul is wanting you to do something like this:

1. With the engine off, the shoreline Unplugged, refrigerator OFF and Onan generator OFF,  parking brake set and truck in park.  Plug the INNova thing in the Cab Cigarette lighter  and take a reading. it should be 12.0 to 12.8. 

2.  Then plug the innova thing into a 12 volt plug in the living quarters and take a reading.  That one should be  12.0 to 12.8, but will likely be different than than the one in cab.

3.  Put the Innova thing in the Cab Cigarette lighter.  It should be at 12.0 to 12.8. Start the engine.  While starting the engine, the Innova reading drop to no less than 10 volts, and raise  to 14 + volts when the engine starts.  Record the final number, in 30 seconds or so.

4.  With the truck in park and the parking brake set and engine still running, move the Innova thing to the 12 volt plug in the living quarters and it should within a few minutes come close to the voltage in step # 3 and it should be higher than the reading in step 2. Close defined as, within 0.3 volts.

5. Unplug the Innova thing. and shut off the truck engine.  Keep all of the lights, fans, and refrigerator off.

6. After overnight or the next day, go to the LD plug the Innova thing into the cab cigarette lighter take the reading.

7. Then move the Innova thing to the 12 volt plug in the living quarters.  Take the reading.

8.  Then post the readings for each step here and we will see if we can help you understand what is happening.
Rodney
1988 Mid Bath
Re: '92 LD 23.5 New house batteries not charging
Reply #5 –
"How can I keep the fridge cool while driving or, is it good enough to keep it closed after cooling it the day before?"

For starters, please allow more than 24 hours for your refrigerator to cool before a trip.  If you are not ready to load it with food, then use containers of water or frozen water for "ballast" while it gets its "sea legs".  Once you have it full of food and are ready for your maiden voyage, you can either drive with it on or off.  There are several schools of thought on that.  Mine is that the refrigerator needs all the help it can get, particularly in the summer, so we drive with it on. 

If you choose to turn it off (or even if you leave it on), your cause will be helped by transferring some frozen Blue Ice gizmos from the freezer to the refrigerator part in the morning.  You can move them back to the freezer at night (when the weather is usually cooler and the unit doesn't need to work so hard) to refreeze, and then replace them in the refrigerator area in the morning once again.

For myself, I run two sets so that there is always a set frozen for emergency use.  Any refrigerator can always use help during the warmer months.  The freezer/spare set is then available for taking the cooler along on a picnic, should that happy occasion arise, or for transporting vulnerable items from the grocery store back to the rig.

If you keep a lot of drinks cold, then an auxiliary cooler for the ones you don't intend to drink that very day, will store them easily at a less-than-room temperature for rotation into the refrigerator proper.  Better yet, store the ones that you DO intend to drink that day in the cooler so that you are not opening and closing the refrigerator many times a day just to reach in to get a beverage.

If you have kids, or any uninitiated types, then putting the refrigerator off limits for drinks will pay real dividends.


   Virtual hugs,

   Judie
Re: '92 LD 23.5 New house batteries not charging
Reply #6 –
Mimi,

It is worth your time and money to buy a mid-priced multimeter, or Volt/Ohm meter.  Fluke makes a great one, but any of the mid priced ones at Home Depot will be fine for your purposes.  I have a Southwire 10030S in the Lazy Daze and it works fine. I bought it at Home Depot.  (The free ones that they give away at Harbor Freight are worth exactly what you pay for them and I haven't had much luck with their accuracy or longevity.)

The meter is pretty simple.  If you read the instructions in the box and then play with C cell or D cell (or AA or AAA, for that matter) batteries on the DC setting, you will get the idea of how they read voltage and why one lead is red and the other is black and what happens if you put the wrong lead on a terminal (negative number voltage reading).  After you realize that the thing is pretty simple and useful, you can put the leads on your house battery and your chassis battery while at rest and while they are charging. This will give you a reasonable idea whether your batteries are fully or partially charged and whether your charging system is doing it's job.  It will also be a real eye-opener to read your chassis battery at rest and then read it when the DC refrigerator is working!  They draw a lot of current, which will drop the voltage of your chassis battery!

The ohm scale measures resistance.  0 Ohms means that there is a perfect electrical connection through a circuit (no resistance).  This happens when you touch the leads together, or when you put both leads on a clean piece of metal. Good electrical connection.  At the other end, different meters give different results, but the Southwire measures 1 when there is no electrical connection at all.  You can check this if you put one the on the center terminal  and the other lead on the threads of a light bulb that is blown and read  ohms.  This is super useful to see if a light that isn't working is a bad bulb or isn't getting current. (LED bulbs are more complicated.)

You Tube has all kinds of little tutorials on how to use a multimeter.

From your posts, it is clear that you are both intelligent and capable.  You can do this.  Try it.  It's kind of fun.  Once you get the idea of how the multimeter works, you will be amazed how many electrical problems you will be able to solve, how smart you feel, and it will save you money!

Harold
2014 27 MB
Towd: Either the Jeep Wrangler or trailer containing the BMW R1200GS and 2 E-bicycles
Happy wife=Happy life
Re: '92 LD 23.5 New house batteries not charging
Reply #7 –
Mimi, did we get off track?  I think you said the issue is the house batteries are not charging.  Most of the input above is very good, but let me add to it.  Rodney's step-by-step procedure is perfect for determining if your batteries are weak.  It is also useful for testing if charging voltage is getting to the batteries, but I have learned the hard way that testing at a 12v outlet is not always reliable.  Voltages are best checked at the battery terminals.

Here is what I would suggest.  Follow Rodney's procedures up to Step 4.  If possible, test voltage at the battery terminals but if you are using the plug in tester, that is probably ok.  If the voltage jumps up when the engine is on, that tells you that your engine's alternator is probably charging the battery.  If you are reading any voltage below about 13.4 volts with the engine running, your alternator may not be charging the batteries.  If you are seeing 14 volts with the engine running, then the alternator is doing its job.

Your generator or shore power are probably the best way to fully charge your batteries.  Repeat Rodney's tests that you did with the engine running, but now with the engine off and the generator running.  Are you seeing 14 volts going into the house batteries? If so, let them charge until they are at least up to 13.2 volts, measured with the generator off, and everything on 12v off or unplugged that you can find.

Once you have them charged, you can do Steps 5, 6, and 7 to see if the batteries hold a charge.  Then do #8.

Some possibilities for you to consider -

1) If you had a lot of stuff running including the 12v refrigerator, the load may have been too much for a weak alternator to keep up.  That refrigerator draws quite a bit on 12 volts.  If the alternator could not provide enough power to supply the engine needs, the vehicle lights, the refrigerator, the radio, and so on, the result would be batteries that read low even after 5 hours of driving because the alternator is not overcoming the other loads and has nothing left for charging.

2) As Judie said, don't expect the refrigerator to cool down stuff that is not already fairly cool.  Mine does a decent job of keeping things cold, but takes forever to freeze a few chicken breasts.  Meanwhile, it is working as hard as it can until it gets the contents down to the desired temps.  On 12v, that means it is drawing as much as it can for a loooong time.  If you started out by loading a refrigerator that had been off, then begin driving, the refrigerator would probably not yet be down to its temperature presets when you stop after 5 hours.  Pre-cool the refrigerator and the contents to minimize the power demand while driving.  That will reduce the load on the alternator.

3) if, after charging the batteries, unplugging everything and letting them sit overnight, the batteries are showing significantly less voltage the next day, you either have a bad set of batteries, or something somewhere that you don't know about is draining power.

Good luck, and let us know what you find from the testing.

Ken F in WY
'08 MB