Generator won't crank March 11, 2017, 08:56:58 am Hi folks,I'm really not going for hero member with all these posts, but who knows ;-)So last night our generator (which is an Onan Emerald 1), which has worked swimmingly until now, and has been tuned up recently, would not crank at all. Nothing - no sound at all (nor did I note a solenoid 'click') when I pressed the rocker switch (either remote, or on the generator itself).So I'm thinking a fuse somewhere, and have a really basic question. I see a fuse holder on the genset, with a cap on the end, that says spare fuses. Where exactly is the functioning fuse located, and how does it come out (nothing 'popped' out when the cap was off). Just don't want to break anything.Also, is there another fuse anywhere. I did not see any listed inside the rig -- is there one in the engine compartment?Of course, any other suggestions on what the check are also welcome. Yes, plenty of gas in the tank (3/4 full).Thanks,S-
Re: Generator won't crank Reply #1 – March 11, 2017, 09:50:12 am SteveOn the generator, there is a black plastic pull tab that holds a 5 amp glass fuse in the square panel with the start stop switch. The manual says 1. Low battery, 2. Bad battery connection. 3. Fuse.
Re: Generator won't crank Reply #2 – March 11, 2017, 09:55:23 am Forgot, yours is a 2000. Yours probably has a plastic covered spade type ATO5 fuse. The thing you found probably is the fuse.
Re: Generator won't crank Reply #3 – March 11, 2017, 12:12:26 pm Thanks Rodney,I just confirmed mine is an Onan Emerald Plus, and yes, that black thing turns out to be the spare fuse case, and the pull-tab for the fuse itself. In my case, the fuse looked fine, so that does not appear to be the problem.I do have somewhat low batteries, I think I was at 65% when I tried this last night; currently at 63%. But not a peep when I press start. That doesn't seem right. And would really defeat the purpose if you couldn't start a generator when your batteries are somewhat low (but by no means dead).As I was crawling around under there, I did notice what looked to be a 120 Amp waterproof buss fuse. I included a picture of that since I hand't seen that mentioned, just in case. I didn't check it, as I would doubt that fuse would affect the starter motor; would seem to be an output fuse, and I haven't had a problem charging.Battery connections looked tight as far as I can tell.OK, I'm ready for any more ideas folks might have. Has anyone experience this "one day it works fine, next day nothin'" situation? No crank, no solenoid click (as far as my ears can tell). From both remote starter and genset switch.Thanks again,S-
Re: Generator won't crank Reply #4 – March 11, 2017, 02:01:08 pm Steve have you tried starting it with the main engine running? With my old Jamboree motorhome if my batteries got low the generator would not start. But if I started the main engine then I could start the generator.
Re: Generator won't crank Reply #5 – March 11, 2017, 02:47:01 pm Steve-Just on the odd chance... Crawl under the steps and look up at the frame rail. The house battery ground should be attached to the frame there with a copper lug. Visually check the condition of the cable and lug. Give the cable a solid tug and make sure it isn't loose or broken inside the insulation. Nothing like a yank, mind you.Mark H
Re: Generator won't crank Reply #6 – March 11, 2017, 03:14:05 pm Is the result the same with both the remote and the generator start stop switches?There is also a connector behind the square control panel. I am beginning to think the starter solenoid has gone bad.
Re: Generator won't crank Reply #7 – March 11, 2017, 05:09:38 pm Long shot here-Microquiet won't crank - my problem and an easy fixBest of Luck-Rich'03 MB in NC
Re: Generator won't crank Reply #8 – March 11, 2017, 05:35:36 pm Quote from: rich - March 11, 2017, 05:09:38 pmLong shot here-Microquiet won't crank - my problem and an easy fixBest of Luck-Rich'03 MB in NC We have that generator. I wasn't aware it had a fan. Are they referring to something other than what I would think of as a fan?Jim
Re: Generator won't crank Reply #9 – March 11, 2017, 06:14:48 pm Hi Steve ( and yes, you are on the way to "hero member"),I think you have depleted your batteries so far that you can't crank the genset. If it were me, I would start the truck engine to start charging the house batteries. Get some charge into them and then try starting the genset.Good luck, but I would hate listening to that loud noisemaker anyway.Steve K.
Re: Generator won't crank Reply #10 – March 11, 2017, 09:04:11 pm Quote from: Jim & Gayle - March 11, 2017, 05:35:36 pmWe have that generator. I wasn't aware it had a fan. Are they referring to something other than what I would think of as a fan?JimIt's been a while, but I think Onan calls it something like the blower wheel. You can't really see it, but you can feel it behind and bit below where the air filter sits. Disclaimer - Obviously that isn't a place to stick your hand while the generator is running! You should know what you're doing it you stick your hand back there while it's not running. The instruction to disconnect the spark plug before sticking your hand in there to keep the generator from starting and causing you to have a really bad day. Clarification - Jim and I are talking about the Microquiet while Steve originally asked about an Emerald. Rich'03 MB in NC
Re: Generator won't crank - solved - low batteries at fault Reply #11 – March 11, 2017, 10:09:44 pm OK sorry folks. We've been at 9000 ft today in the middle of nowhere, NM, and so have not had any internet.Those of you that bet on low batteries -- ding, ding, ding -- we have a winner.Starting the truck engine did not help it start, as it relies on the house batteries.Running the truck battery longer *might* have given enough charge, but I have yet to figure out where the cliff is -- when we tested it tonight we were at 79% after driving most of this sunny day. And that worked.So, thanks to so many of you that chimed into help! Now I do have one general question -- what is the point of having to rely on the house batteries to start the generator, when the reason for running it might just be to charge the house batteries? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me -- what am I missing?Is there a (relatively easy) way to be able to use the truck battery as the starting battery? Or a switch for that when needed? Has anyone done that? Or how about those portable lithium battery starters -- has anyone ever heard those being used?Now I do realize this may well just be an indication that our batteries have all but given up the ghost. So that will be on our list for further investigation/replacement (these were AGM Lifeline batteries from AM Solar back in 2008). But they haven't had many cycles on them as far as I know. I'll have to look up the instructions to my Xantrex battery monitor to figure out how bad things got while I was away. Boy, I could sure use a Masters in RV degree -- and y'all are really helping! There are lots of moving parts (literally). Not to mention the rattletrap "Indian Service Road 82" (both) of my GPSs took me over today - by all means, avoid it. I'm amazed anything is still working ;-)
Re: Generator won't crank - solved - low batteries at fault - now rough running Reply #12 – March 11, 2017, 10:49:24 pm OK one more question.When we started our .generator this afternoon, we were at 6500 ft, and I adjusted the altitude setting accordingly. It took 4-5 tries to start, but then ran smoothly. We didn't need to use it, and were behind schedule, so we turned it off and planned to use it for dinner.Tonight, at about 5500 ft, it again took 4-5 ties to start, and then ran rough the whole time we were using it. I played with the elevation setting, but with no discernable effect. It was rough enough that we only used it to run the microwave, and then turned it off.We had the generator fully serviced about a month or two ago, and it ran fine after that. Any idea what could be causing this rough running and hard starting? I will note that early this afternoon we were above 9000 ft (but never used the generator). We also had a good 45 min rattletrap ride late this afternoon, which shook things up quite a bit. That's just some more facts for y'alls sleuthing.Thanks in advance,S-
Re: Generator won't crank Reply #13 – March 11, 2017, 10:51:44 pm Glad it wasn't anything wrong with the generator. But it sure seems like you should have got a full charge on the batteries after driving all day. But I am not an expert on battery charging by any means.
Re: Generator won't crank Reply #14 – March 12, 2017, 01:30:51 am Nine year old batteries are too old! Ditch 'em. That doesn't address the rough running.Just an opinion!
Re: Generator won't crank - solved - low batteries at fault Reply #15 – March 12, 2017, 12:13:43 pm "Those of you that bet on low batteries -- ding, ding, ding -- we have a winner.Starting the truck engine did not help it start, as it relies on the house batteries.Running the truck battery longer *might* have given enough charge, but I have yet to figure out where the cliff is -- when we tested it tonight we were at 79% after driving most of this sunny day. And that worked.""So, thanks to so many of you that chimed into help! Now I do have one general question -- what is the point of having to rely on the house batteries to start the generator, when the reason for running it might just be to charge the house batteries? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me -- what am I missing?"Steven,A couple of thoughts/opinons about your situation. And please know that subtlety is not one of my virtues;-)First, yes I know that the truck engine does not use the house batteries but your truck engine does send power to the house batteries. That is why you were able put some power back into your house batteries after driving. BUT, if after driving most of the day, your batteries were not charged back to 100%, I think that shows your house batteries are toast. I mean, why are you crossing the country with ancient batteries? If I understand correctly, your LD sat unused for quite a few years which did not do your batteries any favors. I would not go to a battery retailer and purchase 9 year old batteries! I admit I know nothing about AGM batteries but I think any battery allowed to remain in an uncharged state diminishes its capacity.You also question needing good house batteries to start the genset when you plan to use the genset to charge the batteries. I dug out my 2003 Lazy Daze owner's manual and they state "The primary use of the generator is to operate the 120V roof air conditioner or microwave". From what I have read on the LD message boards, the converter charging unit in our Lazy Dazes is * not* a very efficient way to charge the house batteries. That is why quite a few folks (not me so far) have changed the charging units in their power panel. Do yourself a favor and go buy some new (fresh) house batteries. It is time. Did you get a new truck battery before you hit the road? Costco is a good source of batteries.Good luck,Steve K.
Re: Generator won't crank Reply #16 – March 12, 2017, 12:58:36 pm So, is it more electrically efficient to power an external 'smart' charger with the generator to charge the house batteries than to allow the standard converter to charge them? And is it necessary to disconnect anything to make that happen, so that two different chargers aren't connected to the same battery? (This would be short of changing out the whole converter.)If one has to disconnect the house batteries in order to charge them, will the charger in the converter be damaged by running without batteries connected to it? (I know car alternators don't like that, but not sure about the converter.)Chip
Re: Generator won't crank Reply #17 – March 12, 2017, 09:53:17 pm "So, is it more electrically efficient to power an external 'smart' charger with the generator to charge the house batteries than to allow the standard converter to charge them?" Absolutely"And is it necessary to disconnect anything to make that happen, so that two different chargers aren't connected to the same battery? (This would be short of changing out the whole converter.)"Flip the circuit breaker for the converter to off."If one has to disconnect the house batteries in order to charge them, will the charger in the converter be damaged by running without batteries connected to it? (I know car alternators don't like that, but not sure about the converter.)"You don't disconnect them, you wire your battery charger AC input to the generator side of the transfer switch (I don't have a charger off switch.) When the generator runs you turn the converter off or your battery charger off. It doesn't seem to hurt if they are both on at the same time but if it is a smart charger it thinks it is charging a charged battery and won't work properly. Same if solar is on, so turn it off.This will keep you busy: The RV BATTERY CHARGING PUZZLE « HandyBob's Blog
Re: Generator won't crank Reply #18 – March 18, 2017, 09:40:29 pm Sooo, went to exercise the genny today and pressing the starter got a little, rer, rer, rer, barely turning. Hmmmm, took the heel of my hand and smacked the unit hard three times and she fired right up.First, sometimes low tech works. 😋 Second, I'm thinking I have a loose wire or something.
Re: Generator won't crank Reply #19 – March 19, 2017, 12:21:12 pm Quote from: hbn7hj - March 12, 2017, 09:53:17 pm"And is it necessary to disconnect anything to make that happen, so that two different chargers aren't connected to the same battery? (This would be short of changing out the whole converter.)"Nope, you can use two or more chargers at a time, the battery's impedance will regulate the charge it receives.Think about it, when driving, the alternator and solar are charging the battery at the same time.When parked and hookups are available, both the converter and solar are operating at the same time.Two chargers, operating a the same time, will just charge the battery faster.Larry
Re: Generator won't crank Reply #20 – March 19, 2017, 01:35:00 pm Hi Dave, Your generator sounds like loose wire (or poor connection) all right. I've found that often it is the ground wire from the generator to the frame. That mounting lug gets overlooked, and corrodes. It is out in the weather near the generator. Also steel isn't all that good a conductor, but makes up for that by having a large cross section for current to flow. I'd check that first. RonB 1 Likes
Re: Generator won't crank Reply #21 – April 05, 2017, 01:20:29 pm Hi All,I also had a problem with my Onan Emerald generator not starting. My LD is 2001 Mid Bath. I followed all the suggestion on checking things out from this forum. I concluded that it was the fuel pump. I made an appointment with Simonsen Generator Service in Tucson to have it repaired. In arrived in the morning for my 10 AM appointment I told them what I did and I figure that it was the fuel pump. They later confirmed that it was indeed the fuel pump but could not work on it that day. They verbally quoted me 8 hours at $90 an hour plus parts and tax. I made another appointment for the following week (which I later cancelled) and that I would need to leave it there for the day. They also charged me 1.4 hours ($126) for the inspection of the generator. On the way home I thought about it and felt it was too expensive to fix for the amount of time we use the generator. Once I got home I searched my Onan Certified Service & Parts Dealer Directory for any other dealers. I found one in Green Valley, AZ where I now live. I took it to them just to confirm Simonsen's assessment and see what they would change to fix it. They checked it out and said verbally that it would be under $500 and the inspection was free. I made an appointment for the next day and left the LD with them. I picked it up at 5 PM and the work was complete. The cost was $284 including labor, new fuel pump and parts and tax. Wow! What a difference. The mechanic even took me out to the LD and explained what he did and let me start the generator. First crank and it started. He said that they guarantee their work so if it happens again just bring it in. The company's name is Jeff's Auto Repair, 219 W Calle De Las Tiendas, Green Valley. Phone is 520-648-2712. I highly recommend them. I will also have my cars maintenance and repairs done there. 3 Likes
Re: Generator won't crank Reply #22 – April 05, 2017, 02:34:42 pm Quote from: kevin hannah - April 05, 2017, 01:20:29 pmHi All,I also had a problem with my Onan Emerald generator not starting. My LD is 2001 Mid Bath. I followed all the suggestion on checking things out from this forum. I concluded that it was the fuel pump. I made an appointment with Simonsen Generator Service in Tucson to have it repaired. In arrived in the morning for my 10 AM appointment I told them what I did and I figure that it was the fuel pump. They later confirmed that it was indeed the fuel pump but could not work on it that day. They verbally quoted me 8 hours at $90 an hour plus parts and tax. I made another appointment for the following week (which I later cancelled) and that I would need to leave it there for the day. They also charged me 1.4 hours ($126) for the inspection of the generator. On the way home I thought about it and felt it was too expensive to fix for the amount of time we use the generator. Once I got home I searched my Onan Certified Service & Parts Dealer Directory for any other dealers. I found one in Green Valley, AZ where I now live. I took it to them just to confirm Simonsen's assessment and see what they would change to fix it. They checked it out and said verbally that it would be under $500 and the inspection was free. I made an appointment for the next day and left the LD with them. I picked it up at 5 PM and the work was complete. The cost was $284 including labor, new fuel pump and parts and tax. Wow! What a difference. The mechanic even took me out to the LD and explained what he did and let me start the generator. First crank and it started. He said that they guarantee their work so if it happens again just bring it in. The company's name is Jeff's Auto Repair, 219 W Calle De Las Tiendas, Green Valley. Phone is 520-648-2712. I highly recommend them. I will also have my cars maintenance and repairs done there. That first shops estimate was clearly a rip off. Our fuel pump failed a couple of years ago while we were in Bend, OR. I contacted a mobile service guy who arrived on July 3 around 5pm. He had it replaced in about an hour and the total cost was $184 which included a new fuel filter. I think I mentioned it in a post but, if not, it was Courtesy RV, 1921 US-97, Redmond, OR 97756, (541) 504-4523.Jim
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