23.5 vs 26.6 January 29, 2017, 03:14:21 pm Would anyone who has owned (or even just driven) these 2 sizes weigh in on preference and why ?We had 3 of the 22.5 to 23.5 ones _---lost the 2000 model to fire and are wondering about the 26.5 onesAlso curious about opinions on different floor plans
Re: 23.5 vs 26.6 Reply #1 – January 29, 2017, 03:46:05 pm Quote from: mingo_dude - January 29, 2017, 03:14:21 pmWould anyone who has owned (or even just driven) these 2 sizes weigh in on preference and why ?We had 3 of the 22.5 to 23.5 ones _---lost the 2000 model to fire and are wondering about the 26.5 onesAlso curious about opinions on different floor plansThere was an enormous thread on this topic, but here's my opinion after having had a TK for ten years, and currently an RB for the last eight years, with a 40-footer for eight years in between the two Lazy Daze models. It pretty much breaks down to which is more important to you. Do you need to be three feet shorter all of the time and have an enormous payload? Or would you rather have a whole lot more comfort inside, with a bit less payload, and three extra feet to haul around with you?I'm not the one that drives and parks our rig, but Mr. Driver-Parker says that there is virtually no difference, to his way of thinking, and I surely enjoy the extra room inside.Floorplans are entirely personal according to your most-of-the-time use. The RB is a no brainer for us, but the separation of sleeping area from living area is more desirable for others. My current favorite model is the 31-footer, but that is looking at it from the viewpoint of "old and creaky", as opposed to young and lithe! At this point in life, we are not as concerned about whizzing about in a small rig that we can pull off nearly anywhere, as we did with our TK, and I would surely love the extra length and space in the 31-foot rig. The much reduced payload can be a problem in this longer rig, but we are no longer fulltiming, so the takealongs needed for a shorter trip should not pose a problem at this stage. Virtual hugs, Judie•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~• 2 Likes
Re: 23.5 vs 26.6 Reply #2 – January 29, 2017, 04:06:43 pm When we first planned to buy a Lazy Daze, we went to the factory thinking the 22.5TK would be it. After a day sitting in several models we decided that the 26.5MB was better for us (back then the GVWR was lower on the 22.5 models). We almost always towed our Jeep Wrangler, and on occasion fitting the coach and tow into some smaller campgrounds was a challenge. The MB without the tow would have been much easier. We did several multi month trips, and were glad we had the room of the MB. CCC on that coach was never a problem.Now we full-time in a 39' DP and that is a very different situation. Everything in RVing seems to be a balance of compromises.Art
Re: 23.5 vs 26.6 Reply #3 – January 29, 2017, 04:09:41 pm We have the 26.5 RK and love the extra space. I was absolutely convinced that the TK was "the one." But, the discussion that I had with several members on the Forum convinced me to open my mind and I am happy that I did. I now look at the kitchen area and realize the space would seem cramped in comparison. We also have 3 dogs and occasional grandchildren 😊 So I guess it all comes down to your needs.
Re: 23.5 vs 26.6 Reply #4 – January 30, 2017, 11:03:33 am I chose a 23.5' TK almost 14 years ago (and detailed the process in a series of articles titled "Long Road to a Lazy Daze"; I think that these are in the "Companion"); if I were ordering a new LD today, I would select the same floor plan (despite my concern about the "vulnerability" of the TK's newer combined dump valve design) because the choice I made then has proven to work for me. I travel solo with a medium-sized dog, and I don't tow. The shorter length, including a lesser rear overhang than the 26.5', ample storage, enormous CCC (2003 was the first year for the 23.5' on the 14050 gvwr chassis, which is why I waited to order), and the open floor plan of the TK were the primary "deciders". One factor I was not aware of with the TK of that era (only the TK; the FD and FL had larger black tanks) was that the black tank capacity was incorrectly listed as 24 gallons on the spec sheet; it was/is actually 18 (the capacity was increased in later models) and although Lazy Daze knew about the error, they did not correct the spec sheet or inform buyers, apparently thinking that a 6-gallon difference was not an issue of consequence. For those who dry camp and boondock most of the time, their assumption was inaccurate!However, on balance, the 23.5' has worked well, primarily because interior space is much less critical to me than flexibility in where I can "goseedo", particularly without a toad. I've driven, parked, squeezed into, and maneuvered in many places where a longer rig would have been very difficult to manage; I can't count the numbers of times when 3 more feet would have been a deal-breaker! The topic of length and model choice pops up periodically, and the "answers" are consistent, i.e., the "perfect" length and model for one person is the last one another would choose! And, a reminder that looking at a model's two-dimensional floor plan gives only a limited concept of the rig's potential "fit" to one's life and travel style; seeing the real thing is the best way to make a choice. Many times, a model chosen solely on the basis of a layout diagram drops off the list when the person(s) actually see/go though the motions of living and traveling in that model rig; plenty of plus and minus points of each model don't necessarily show up on a flat representation! YMMV!Joan 1 Likes
Re: 23.5 vs 26.6 Reply #5 – January 30, 2017, 11:34:05 am So Joan, how do you goseedo without a toad? Do you just drive the LD everywhere?
Re: 23.5 vs 26.6 Reply #6 – January 30, 2017, 01:44:21 pm "Do you just drive the LD everywhere?"----As much as is practical/convenient/possible, yes. Or, depending on the situation, location, and type and length of stay, I may rent a car. The "tow or no tow" question is another that swings through every now and then, and, like model choice, it's a personal decision; either choice has its own set of drawbacks, advantages, and trade-offs.Candidly, there have been several times over the years when I questioned my decision not to tow a little vehicle that would work for both around town and also have enough clearance for "mild" exploration on roads and venues where even the short, but still wide, LD either wouldn't fit or would get hung up! Having a toad vehicle is undeniably the most convenient way to go in many situations, and despite being fairly creative in figuring out alternative transportation when driving the LD isn't the best plan, I've (regrettably) missed things.The decision not to tow was/is based mostly on the following factors, which are personal choices and may be completely irrelevant non-issues to others! I didn't want to buy and insure a separate tow vehicle, even if I could find a lightweight manual that met my "town and country" specs. (My current car could be adapted, but it has very little ground clearance.)Ditto getting/maintaining a tow set-up, braking system, hitch beefing, and all safety equipment necessary.Losing the ability to back up, and having a lot fewer options to maneuver, particularly in tighter/limited clearance and/or pull-off spots. (One can not necessarily just "drop" the toad whenever and wherever the need arises.)Solo hitching, unhitching, and "toad moving" is not necessarily easy or convenient. (Yes, many do it; good on them! )Obviously, the "no tow" choice won't work for many, but the positives of not towing outweigh the negatives for my situation, and I doubt that things will change at this stage of the game. As always, YMMV!Joan 2 Likes
Re: 23.5 vs 26.6 Reply #7 – January 30, 2017, 02:23:22 pm Then there is the quandary about choice of main vehicle to start with. A van-based Class C is larger than a van-based Class B, and provides loads of advantages, save for the outer dimensions!For the non-fulltimer, particularly those with no/small pets, a van-based Class B might fill the bill - or not. The smaller van allows fairly easy travel, with a few contiguous nights spent in the vehicle, with possibly multi-days/weeks spent in one of the bed & breakfast situations that are now so prominent just about anywhere you might want to be.That's next on the agenda for us. And, yes, the Lazy Daze is languishing. Sad :-( Virtual hugs, Judie•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~• 1 Likes
Re: 23.5 vs 26.6 Reply #8 – January 30, 2017, 05:19:19 pm .... from Yuma, AZ - Desert Paradise RVFor years, we've gone back/forth of getting a towed for our 2003 IB30. This 6 week trip confirmed once again our decision NOT get a towed. Rather, We took Enterprise 2 week option on a Versa Note @ $121/week and that's that. If had towed the estimated 770 miles of this journey would have cost more PLUS the ever-present "backing up" nightmare ... at least for me. Otherwise we drive our LD anywhere for shopping or sightseeing, giving plenty of room to turn around. 2 Likes
Re: 23.5 vs 26.6 Reply #9 – January 30, 2017, 07:24:07 pm Our first LD was a 2002 FL bought new. We spent 6-8 months a year in for years. We loved it, but we found ourselves right at max weight when on our extended trips. After 3-4 years we began to drool over the RB model - couldn't afford another new one so we kept a sharp eye out for a used one. Found a couple, but the deals didn't go through for various reasons. Finally in 2009 we snagged an '05 RB in excellent condition and for an amazing price. Still have it and love it even more than the FL. Our RB has the twin sofas so we can each sprawl out whenever we want. We love the spacious feel to the large open area.We haven't towed a vehicle with either LD. When we need to go somewhere, we just take the rig. No big deal to unplug the electric cord, raise the leveling jacks and be off.The 26.5 LD has more than enough load capacity for our needs - we're nowhere near the max even when setting out for the long treks.That's our story and I'm sticking to it! 1 Likes
Re: 23.5 vs 26.6 Reply #10 – January 30, 2017, 09:53:43 pm B Van"That's next on the agenda for us."We went to an RV show three years ago specifically to look at the better quality B-Vans like LTV and Pleasure Way. Being a twice before LD owner, a quality product was important to us.Our opinions.The ones in the 21-24' range we were interested in were really cramped inside. One person had to be seated to let the other move around. The holding tanks were so small as to, practically speaking, eliminate disbursed camping for more than two or three days. We would be constantly on the prowl for water and a dump station.Access to the dump valves, generator, and anything else that's underneath is really, really difficult, especially as a person ages. One unit we looked at had to be driven up on blocks in order to fill the propane tank.One of the units we got sort of serious about, had a very, very fine print warning to drain the freshwater tank if sub-freezing weather was expected. 😳Be sure to inquire about service on the MB chassis. Not all dealers will service them. Be sure there is someone nearby who will. When you get your MB serviced, leave your small checkbook home; you won't be needing it. Just bring the big one.😱Prices varied , for a well equipped unit, from a low of about $125,000 up to $175,000.After careful study, we decided to simply replace our MB with a 24' TK for under $90,000 fully equipped, including tax, tag and title.B Vans certainly have their advantages, just not for our lifestyle.Ed
Re: 23.5 vs 26.6 Reply #11 – January 30, 2017, 11:12:24 pm "B Vans certainly have their advantages, just not for our lifestyle."Also have studied the Leisure Travel Vans and Pleasure-Ways as alternates for traveling, and, like you, notice that their costs are way over what I would consider a good Return on Investment. The older Ford, Dodge and Chevrolet models are a lot more appealing to me than the Mercedes Benz, for all the downsides that you mention. There are also Roadtreks, but from what I read, the newer ones are not very reliable. New owners that have paid a gazillion dollars for the latest in technology find that their units spend most of their time in repair shops. No need to go into that in depth, but I was astounded.I've weighed the merits of returning to a TK as we had had ten great years in Gertie. But we were <fifty years of age then (1991), and a lot more lithe. We went from two different Volkswagen campers to the TK, thence to a 40-foot fulltime unit, with yet another van camper, this time a Sportsmobile, as a toad, as we still enjoyed going to small campgrounds for short periods of time. Unfortunately cancer forced us off the road, and we didn't think we could survive without an RV, particularly a Lazy Daze, so we traded the live-aboard unit for an RB, which has received very little use in the succeeding eight years. We bought it with 7,000 miles on it, and have managed to only double that amount. We take care of it, and do take it out now and then, but mostly it just stays in the covered storage area and weeps with loneliness. It very much enjoyed an outing into New Mexico at Thanksgiving. Depending on energy levels, we may try for a short hop to someplace close, just to see how we do in the Lazy Daze again.True that boondocking in a Class B might be something of a problem, although we have spent three weeks at a time in ours, albeit utilizing campgrounds frequently. Our particular unit has only a 1.9 cubic foot refrigerator, a Porta-Potti, a ten-gallon fresh water tank, and only a seven-gallon grey water tank, but it is pretty simple to deal with those restrictions when utilizing campgrounds on a regular basis. It is easy to replenish food supplies when zipping into a food emporium parking lot isn't a chore. We don't seem to have difficulty with constricted living space as we are not large people, get along well, and are accustomed to sharing small spaces.Since the accouterments of old age and ill health require more space than is available for regulation living in our Sportsmobile, we are going to try the new tack of taking an AirBnB accommodation in a place that we can reach in one day, and then offload our junque into the apartment and do our exploring with the Sportsmobile, just as if we had brought the RB and parked it. Even when we were more able to travel with ease, we tended to stay put for a month or more, as was possible, in a given location to do our exploring of the countryside. We think that now with a five-week chemo cycle, we will be able to be elsewhere for four weeks without having to do too much jockeying around with medical tests and oncologist visits, if we don't get too far from home.I have done myriad spreadsheets of the cost comparison of the different methods to enjoy being in the out of doors, and for our particular needs and abilities, renting someone else's quarters for a period of time seems to be the winner. Whether that will suit us remains to be seen. Cost is not the only consideration. We will see how our experiment goes before deciding if our beloved Lazy Daze would be better in someone else's possession. Virtual hugs, Judie 2 Likes
Re: 23.5 vs 26.6 Reply #12 – January 30, 2017, 11:44:02 pm Judie that post was packed with good information. Thank you! WeloveAir BnB, have used it extensively. It is a great way to travel and I hope you will enjoy it too. We are about to build a B van for ourselves, more of a camper than an RV, your comments help.
Re: 23.5 vs 26.6 Reply #13 – January 31, 2017, 09:17:30 am Well, good thing that we have choices, hey? I considered a Sportsmobile, an EB on the Ford E350, before I ordered the LD; a well-designed "B" can be a versatile, go-anywhere vehicle. (If I were to go with a B now, I'd still choose a Sportsmobile, now on a Transit chassis, because the design, engineering, and build quality of other brands of B rigs I've seen leave a LOT to be desired.) But, for some of the reasons that Ed D. mentioned, I went with the LD, a much better fit, then and now, for my travel style. I can see how "Air B&Bs" would work for some, but I have the LD because I want my own space and my own bed, bathroom, and kitchen! (Dietary issues.) And, I have a dog; even though she's (reasonably) well-behaved, a dog is no small consideration when seeking out on-road accommodations. I have everything needed for comfort and convenience right there in the rig; no need to schlep an "overnight bag" into somebody else's house. The small LD is pretty easy to get into and out of a lot of places, many of which may not even know what an "Air B&B" is. And, I would much rather put the bucks into the gas tank to "goseedo" than shell out for alternative accommodation (unless there's a very good reason or need to do so). But, all that's just the view of one cranky old woman; YMMV! Joan
Re: 23.5 vs 26.6 Reply #14 – January 31, 2017, 10:33:28 am We have a '93 22' without a toad. I've mentioned a few times that we have a (transferable rear view mirror hanger) California state parks pass which is good for vehicles up to 25'. So, while we use it most of the time to take our regular cars to the local state beach, we also occasionally use it with the LD at different state parks/beaches.In fact, the state beach by our house has a dump station. I use it all the time as a final dump because we tend to use both black/grey tanks while on the road back home. (That is, break up the drive by stopping and having a picnic, rest, etc.) Another aspect of having a smaller class C dawned on me this past weekend in Death Valley. I don't why it made an impression, because we drive our RV everywhere and use it exactly in this fashion, but here it is:We drove up to Stovepipe wells from the Furnace creek campground in the morning, and then headed south to Badwater after lunch. Normally, if one had a toad or tow vehicle (for a TT or 5W), they would most likely use that vehicle. But, in doing so, you wouldn't be able to pull over and enjoy the full comforts of your RV if you felt like having a meal, chilling out (reading a book, etc) any place you liked.In our case, after hiking around the Mesquite dunes, we grabbed some extra snacks from the store (to complement our regular supplies) and headed on out. On a whim, we headed down a gravel road a bit and parked for a few hours to have lunch & hang. Afterward, we drove to Badwater, and after hiking out pretty far to the lake, we came back and had some nice ice cold tea. Now, granted, you could have a cooler in your toad, but it's not the same as sitting in your living room looking out the window at such a marvelous attraction.This kind of flexibility is of course the primary selling point of class Bs, which is why I assume they are commanding such high prices. However, the smaller LDs provide greater room while still delivering the same kind of driveability. Finally, since I'm on my soapbox, imagine if LD used the new Transit chassis to bring out once again the 20-22' models. They'd literally kill the class B market. 1 Likes
Re: 23.5 vs 26.6 Reply #15 – January 31, 2017, 12:48:42 pm I absolutely and totally agree with everything that Joan, Ed and "Snerf" have shared. We loved, loved, loved Gertie and had ten years of great times for all the same reasons stated. But circumstances change. The two biggest factors that must be considered now are driver/partner physical capability, and access to the unit. We can (and do) keep a Class B in our carport, but Homeowners' Association Rules preclude a regulation motorhome on our property. Boooo!I think back with great fondness on those Gertie days, and trot over to the Lazy Daze web site to have a gander at the pictures of the current TK units. Then I read what others are doing with just one rig (no toad) in the longer lengths, and think maybe we could do that. Dorrie Anne is longer basically only by the amount of distance I can stretch my arms apart, so how hard could it be to replicate those good times? The biggest downside to not having our campervan with us is the loss of the auxiliary (and necessary) amenities afforded when we are out on a day trip, to say nothing of the extra storage space.What a wonderful forum we have here . . . one that lets me talk things through, gathering ideas from others' brains. I want to thank everyone for accommodating my ramblings. Clearly I just need to be more proactive in getting the Lazy Daze from the storage area to the house for loading and leaving purposes. Virtual hugs, Judie 1 Likes
Re: 23.5 vs 26.6 Reply #16 – January 31, 2017, 01:21:36 pm "....if LD used the new Transit chassis to bring out once again the 20-22' models. They'd literally kill the class B market."---This is a nice thought, and I don't doubt that while LD could design and engineer a high quality B-type on the Transit cutaway chassis, they're a very small, limited production, niche market manufacturer that simply does not have the capability to build enough units to even come close to "dominating" any market, even if they wanted to do this, which I suspect they do not. (Kodiak experience; once burned, twice shy.)Product design and development takes a very substantial amount of capital, hours and hours of design and engineering work, materials quality and use assessment, and "difficult to calculate" time and energy spent on a myriad of other details to bring a product to market. Of course, even if LD did build a "box" that was well-matched to the Transit, people would probably complain that the thing didn't have a slide and go buy something else! Joan
Re: 23.5 vs 26.6 Reply #17 – January 31, 2017, 09:57:09 pm I've bookmarked this wonderful thread which in my opinion was a very thoughtful discussion on several topics important to most RV owners. As someone mentioned during this discussion, this kind of question comes up from time to time so I've bookmarked it for a ready reference when a similar question comes along. As a footnote, ain't it a pleasure to have a civil discourse on a topic with different points of view! Tiz just a pleasure for sure. 3 Likes
Re: 23.5 vs 26.6 Reply #18 – February 01, 2017, 10:20:27 am Quote from: mingo_dude - January 29, 2017, 03:14:21 pmWould anyone who has owned (or even just driven) these 2 sizes weigh in on preference and why ?We had 3 of the 22.5 to 23.5 ones _---lost the 2000 model to fire and are wondering about the 26.5 onesAlso curious about opinions on different floor plansJudy, you may want to attend the GTG in Morro Bay and talk to different owners during the "open house" session. That's what I intend to do to help with my model/length decision. 1 Likes
Re: 23.5 vs 26.6 Reply #19 – February 11, 2017, 02:56:42 am Where do I get info on the GTG in Morro Bay and are we allowed to come since we aren't currently LD owners 😩
Re: 23.5 vs 26.6 Reply #20 – February 11, 2017, 08:51:23 am There's a Yahoo message board for the Morro Bay get together, but here's the basic info:March 10-12, 2017, are the official dates; some come earlier and stay later.If you're camping, reservations are made through reserveamerica.com (The California State Parks' website is California State Parks ; you can link to to the reservations page for MB from there or go directly to RA.)(Be aware that the park may be booked for the above dates, but sometimes, a cancellation does come up.If you just wanted to come up for a day or two, rig "open house" is set for Friday and Saturday mornings, 9-11. Several owners of LD models of various ages welcome visitors during those times. It's a good opportunity to see not only lots of LDs, but what owners have done to "customize" them! Of course you're welcome; this is a friendly bunch! (Well, most of us! ) And, we have attendees who are former LDers, but now have a non-LD rig. Hope you can make it.Joan
Re: 23.5 vs 26.6 Reply #21 – February 11, 2017, 11:02:46 am We live in Santa Barbara county so easy to come up just for the day, will put on my calendar and hope to see you all there. BTW, we got put ' in the overflow there a bunch of years ago and it was a very nice overflow area. I'll look for the rest of the info.Thanks!
Re: 23.5 vs 26.6 Reply #22 – February 11, 2017, 11:19:38 am "we got put in the overflow there a bunch of years ago and it was a very nice overflow area"----AFAIK, Morro Bay SP doesn't have an "overflow area"; all the sites are numbered and reservable. Joan
Re: 23.5 vs 26.6 Reply #23 – February 11, 2017, 11:37:12 am It's not an official overflow area, more of a parking lot, no amenities but good location
Re: 23.5 vs 26.6 Reply #24 – February 11, 2017, 11:48:14 am Quote from: JCT - February 11, 2017, 11:19:38 am"we got put in the overflow there a bunch of years ago and it was a very nice overflow area"----AFAIK, Morro Bay SP doesn't have an "overflow area"; all the sites are numbered and reservable. In years past, Morro Bay SP had Enroute, overflow parking in the Marina parking lot, to the south of the Bay Cafe.This practice was discontinued several years ago. If trying to spend the night there now, expect a 2:00 am wake up call, from the ranger or police. MB too has it's own homeless problemCalifornia State Park Enroute camping locations.Enroute CampsitesThere are no Enroute sites on the Central Coast anymore.Larry
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