Starting problem January 27, 2017, 06:05:19 pm Hi all, hoping to solicit some help re. a mechanical starting problem I have with our '02 E450 v10.The engine turns over but does not start. The oil gauge and fuel gauges are at 1/2 and 3/4 respectively when I first turn the ignition on but after several cranks both drop below the low mark. The oil/coolant pressure lights comes on, as well as the battery and service engine soon lights (fail safe system?), and the low fuel light.Unsure if these factors are important but thought it be prudent to mention them. The coolant hoses and coolant was recently replaced with new. It has run for a short time once since then about a month ago, but otherwise has been sitting idle. The battery is at 12.6v. We've had a couple of cold nights (for us) in the mid teens. There should be plenty of gas, at least half tank. The oil dip stick indicates it is at, or just below the min. mark when cold. Could this be the cause?I hope I've covered most things, but if someone has some helpful advice, or further questions, I'm all ears. Thank you in advance. Matt
Re: Starting problem Reply #1 – January 27, 2017, 08:56:00 pm Quote from: Overlander - January 27, 2017, 06:05:19 pmThe engine turns over but does not start. The oil gauge and fuel gauges are at 1/2 and 3/4 respectively when I first turn the ignition on but after several cranks both drop below the low mark. The gauges dropping, after cranking, suggests a weak starting battery.Try charging the starting battery and see if it starts.A battery can be strong enough to crank but have too low a voltage, while cranking, to operate the the electronic ignition and fuel injection.Larry 2 Likes
Re: Starting problem Reply #2 – January 27, 2017, 09:37:21 pm Quote from: Larry Wade - January 27, 2017, 08:56:00 pmThe gauges dropping, after cranking, suggests a weak starting battery.Try charging the starting battery and see if it starts.A battery can be strong enough to crank but have too low a voltage, while cranking, to operate the the electronic ignition and fuel injection.Thanks Larry. I'll charge tomorrow and report back on what happens. Fingers crossed!MattLarry
Re: Starting problem Reply #3 – January 28, 2017, 03:42:08 pm If it were me, I would try jumpstarting the engine, preferably from a jumper battery pack. If you don't have a jumper battery pack, traditional jumper cables would be my next choice.Based on a discussion a couple years ago, I bought two of those lithium ion jumper packs that Andy had mentioned. I think the brand was "Antigravity". I ordered from Amazon. One for the LD and one for my boat. One feature I really like about the jumper packs is they have a safety feature to prevent damage if you connect the cables incorrectly. True confession time; while attempting to jump start a car with a weak battery, in the dark, from a jumper box without such a safety feature, I reversed the cables and blew up the jumper box. Thank the Lord thatthere was a protective box around that jumper battery!Good luck. I see a new truck battery in your future.Steve K. 2 Likes
Re: Starting problem Reply #4 – January 29, 2017, 12:24:58 pm This sounds like a low battery try charging the battery. Take a voltage reading while cranking the engine. Less than 10 volts its a bad battery. 1 Likes
Re: Starting problem Reply #5 – January 29, 2017, 07:58:12 pm I recharged the battery - it took many hours of slow charge so it appears it was very drained. It did not make any notable difference to the symptoms. I'll try measuring the volts while cranking. Matt
Re: Starting problem Reply #6 – January 29, 2017, 10:09:36 pm Last week when went to retrieve our 2003 IB30 at storage yard, it cranked but no start. Almost new engine battery. After trying normal tips, called Good Sam Roadside who sent a techie about 45 minutes later. He quickly determined he couldn't fix; take to Ford (didn't charge me). Call back to GoodSam brought a wrecker 1.5 hours later who towed to nearest Ford dlr who works on RVs. Problem: electric gas pump in the tank. Ordered overnite. Pump $455.Result: 24 hrs and $1,220 drove out and on our way to LaPax/Parker, AZ. So glad happened at home and not away/on the road. 1 Likes
Re: Starting problem Reply #7 – January 29, 2017, 11:31:00 pm On my 2004 I have replaced two (2), original and 2nd replacement, first in Oregon and 2nd in Lone Pine, CA, now on 3rd with 89,000 on odometer. Also replaced pigtail hose on top of tank for line to generator. So that makes a total of three (3) times the tank has been lowered on my rig.Was told by service shop on last exchange that our pumps rarely last beyond 55,000. Likely cause is clogged filter at the pump. A tank of contaminated gas will kill a pump quickly.
Re: Starting problem Reply #8 – January 30, 2017, 12:12:12 am Lazy BonesDid your tech say these fuel pump failures have been historical since fuel injection was introduced on the Ford E cutaway? I just replaced the in tank fuel pump on my '88 MB at 56,600 miles. The interesting thing with the frame mounted injection pump system was, the in tank pump failure did not show up until the fuel level reached 1/4 and then I could not get over 40 mph. When re fueled I could go 65 mph until it again reached 1/4 tank.
Re: Starting problem Reply #9 – January 30, 2017, 07:55:47 am "I recharged the battery - it took many hours of slow charge so it appears it was very drained. It did not make any notable difference to the symptoms. I'll try measuring the volts while cranking. "Matt,Can you try jumpstarting it ? With a strong booster battery you should get good cranking power (rapid engine turning) and hopefully ignition. If that doesn't get your engine running, your problem is not the battery.You said it took a long time to charge the battery, that could be a sign that your battery is bad or that you wore it down while trying to start. Before buying a new battery, try jumpstarting. I believe that is what a roadside assistance service would do.Good luck,Steve K
Re: Starting problem Reply #10 – January 30, 2017, 09:20:12 am Quote from: Steve K. link=msg=[quote author=Steve K. - January 30, 2017, 07:55:47 amMatt,Can you try jumpstarting it ?I'll be trying a few things, incld jump starting, in line with earlier comments, within a couple of days and will report back.Thanks all, Matt
Re: Starting problem Reply #12 – January 30, 2017, 12:56:50 pm This starting problem and mention of the dreaded fuel pump failure, reminded me about a message thread a few years ago about the fuel pump inertia switch/cut off switch. On Ford van chassis, there is a switch located behind a plastic trim panel by the passenger side footwell. This switch cuts off the fuel pump to prevent spraying fuel in the event there is an accident. A jolt like a blown out tire can trigger this switch.There is an article about this in the Lazy Daze Companion. Also, Larry Wade has some photos of this switch on his photo site.If I ever experience a similar no start, I will be checking and resetting this switch. I should probably print the article and put it in my owner's manual.Steve K.
Re: Starting problem Reply #13 – January 30, 2017, 01:22:36 pm Quote from: Steve K. - January 30, 2017, 12:56:50 pmThis starting problem and mention of the dreaded fuel pump failure, reminded me about a message thread a few years ago about the fuel pump inertia switch/cut off switch. On Ford van chassis, there is a switch located behind a plastic trim panel by the passenger side footwell. This switch cuts off the fuel pump to prevent spraying fuel in the event there is an accident. A jolt like a blown out tire can trigger this switch.Larry Wade has some photos of this switch on his photo site.E450 Inertia switch[/quote]https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157659154494502/
Re: Starting problem Reply #14 – January 30, 2017, 02:53:56 pm RODNEY"Did your tech say these fuel pump failures have been historical since fuel injection was introduced on the Ford E cutaway?"I don't recall that he said anything concerning 'fuel injection', only that these types of pumps had a history of failure. I got pretty much the same response from the service facility in Oregon and the one in Lone Pine... i.e. "Don't depend on your pump much beyond 55K." I understand that the pump proper is enclosed in a mesh 'sock' which is the internal 'filter'. It is this sock that has a tendency to clog, either by burning contaminated gas or letting your fuel level reach minimum. I always try to drive on the top half of my tank. 1 Likes
Re: Starting problem Reply #15 – January 30, 2017, 04:09:56 pm I have not had the opportunity to jump or measure the voltage while cranking yet. I couldn't find a date sticker on the truck battery but went through the PO's records and evidently it was installed new in 2007! The batteries he replaced more recently were the coach ones. Based on this I need a new battery in any event. Any recommendations?Re. the inertia switch, I pulled the trim so I could familiarize myself with the setup. I'm presuming the red button switch pops up when it is triggered. My is currently down.Matt
Re: Starting problem Reply #16 – January 30, 2017, 04:53:53 pm Larry or other wizards--I learned about the inertia switch last year (after a passenger dually blowout), & the mechanic educated me about it. As I've puzzled over the past year, I understand the safety feature (re: not wanting gas spraying everywhere), but what on earth is the reason for burying the thing in such a difficult-to-access location?Thx--Lynne
Re: Starting problem Reply #17 – January 30, 2017, 07:02:55 pm Quote from: Lynne Broyles-Greenwood - January 30, 2017, 04:53:53 pmI understand the safety feature (re: not wanting gas spraying everywhere), but what on earth is the reason for burying the thing in such a difficult-to-access location?For the correct answer, use this link.Contact Us | Ford Motor Company Customer Service | Ford.comThe switch should never be activated in normal driving. It is made to shut the fuel pump off in case of an extra hard impact.It's purpose is the same as a home gas earthquake valve.Why is it so inaccessible? The thinking is probably that it is needed so infrequently that it doesn't need to be easily accessible. I know people who have flown their LDs and and driven them through ditches without setting the switch off.Larry 1 Likes
Re: Starting problem Reply #18 – January 31, 2017, 03:58:18 pm Larry, can you weigh in on the electric fuel pump issue? If the failure rate is significant above a certain mileage, I might want to replace it proactively. If the rate of failure is small, then I guess I would wait.Ken F in NM
Re: Starting problem Reply #19 – January 31, 2017, 05:40:12 pm Thx, Larry "...people who have flown their LDs and and driven them through ditches ..." Yikes...& I get a little antsy driving her around the pasture to slosh soapy water in the black tank when I dump because the tall grass can camouflage a ditch.My kids' father used to say I had a low-mileage vehicle because I "only hit the high points of the hills" between our farm and a nearby town (took me a while to figure that out... ), but now I drive 55 (even in the van) because I like to see how high I can get the mpg on the trip computer--thank goodness for cruise control, because I do still seem to have a lead foot without it.Lynne
Re: Starting problem Reply #20 – February 06, 2017, 06:22:21 pm Sorry it took me a while to report back. I got it running by spraying some starter fluid into the air intake. I'll need to try starting it again with the fluid next.I know from the age of my engine battery it is replacement time, but could there still be another issue or do you think the starter fluid simply made it easier for a weak battery?Matt
Re: Starting problem Reply #21 – February 06, 2017, 06:48:25 pm Hey Matt,After you got it started by spraying starting fluid, did you then drive it? And did it later restart without spraying more fluid?Seems we often want to blame the fuel pump but if it drove normally after starting, I would think the fuel pump is ok.If you know the battery is old and needs replacing, why haven't you replaced it? Sometimes the best solution is the easiest, like if the tv doen't work, is it plugged in. Steve K.
Re: Starting problem Reply #22 – February 06, 2017, 07:07:21 pm Yes it drove fine. I'll be trying to start it again in the morning, without the starter fluid. I only just found out the age of the battery. The LD is fairly new to me. I'm in the process of shopping for a replacement.Matt
Re: Starting problem Reply #23 – February 06, 2017, 07:21:19 pm "If you know the battery is old and needs replacing, why haven't you replaced it? Sometimes the best solution is the easiest..."---If you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras. Joan 2 Likes
Re: Starting problem Reply #24 – February 14, 2017, 06:52:13 am Hey Matt,Since somome else is dealing with fuel pump issues, though it time to check in with you."Yes it drove fine. I'll be trying to start it again in the morning, without the starter fluid. I only just found out the age of the battery. The LD is fairly new to me. I'm in the process of shopping for a replacement.Matt"So what was the verdict? Did you put in a new battery? Did your starting problem go away? Or were there other problems?Steve K
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