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Leveling Jacks/HWH Leveling System
We are considering the 27MB and 31IB LD. HWH jacks are not an option. Are they a must add option? Does the LD sway when walking around the unit without jacks? I have always used light weight blocks to level our trailer. This is our first MH. Does the LD come with any jacks?

Thanks for your response and Happy New Year!

Ron
Ron and Linda
Ada Michigan
Re: Leveling Jacks/HWH Leveling System
Reply #1 –
Ours, an older E350 chassis MB without stabilizers, does move when we move around in it. It is in no way uncomfortable. Winds of 25MPH are heard but barely felt. I would not pay for jacks under it.

Some context:

our Bigfoot camper on the truck moved about the same unless we deployed the Happy Jacks. Then it was fairly stable, though it did move even when lowered.

Out 30' trailer wiggled like wet spaghetti till we deployed the stabilizers. Then it jiggled like a diving board.

Paul
'92 Mid Bath
Re: Leveling Jacks/HWH Leveling System
Reply #2 –
I consider them a nice to have option.  Yes, people moving and strong winds will cause gentle rocking. 
We purchased our o7 MB LD in 2011.  We have enoufh left over ccc when traveling full that we could add the jacks and not be overweight.  For now are putting the extra cash elsewhere.  Your tolerance to rocking may be different.  What ever your feelings are I would suggest driving the rig a while before adding them.
John
Currently: 2008 36' Tiffin Open Road
Previously: 2007 Mid Bath
Re: Leveling Jacks/HWH Leveling System
Reply #3 –
Quote from: Sarz272000  - 

"... Does the LD sway when walking around the unit without jacks..."


Our '15 27' RB is exceptionally stable when parked (stable enough while traveling).

The only time it causes a bit of concern to me is when I'm top side. Not horrible but gets me thinking and sometimes on my knees. 😁

Personally, I would add neither levelling jacks or stabilizers. Not much need for me. I'd rather keep 'er light.

Kent
2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"
Re: Leveling Jacks/HWH Leveling System
Reply #4 –
Quote from: Sarz272000  - 
We are considering the 27MB and 31IB LD. HWH jacks are not an option. Are they a must add option? Does the LD sway when walking around the unit without jacks? I have always used light weight blocks to level our trailer. This is our first MH. Does the LD come with any jacks?

Thanks for your response and Happy New Year!

Ron

We have a 31' and would love to have levelers but aren't willing to give up the limited CCC for them. If you aren't full timing like us it might not be an issue just depends on how much you travel with.

Jim
Re: Leveling Jacks/HWH Leveling System
Reply #5 –
I had Kwikee (?) levelers installed the day following delivery. They have paid for themselves several times over and I consider the money well spent.

Yes, I carry leveling blocks and have had to use them in conjunction with the levelers on at least two occasions, both on extremely unleveled ground.

Would I have them installed again? In the blink of an eye! The first time you need to level the LD while it's pouring rain or snow or even muddy ground you are going to wish you had those levelers that you thought were too costly or too heavy.   :o
Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Cedar
2004 30'IB (Island Bed)
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery
Live for the day!
Re: Leveling Jacks/HWH Leveling System
Reply #6 –
My feeling parallels Lazy Bones.  I got Bigfoot Quadra automatic levelers installed within a few months of getting my rig.  I can use a site far too uneven to level with blocks.  I have had my front wheels more than 6" off the ground.  I can use the levelers in manual control mode if I have to change a tire (hasn't happened yet).  I have run the levelers WAAAY up on wood cribbing blocks to work underneath.

I have found the levelers to be extremely useful, and would not be without them.

Ken F in NM
'08 MB
Re: Leveling Jacks/HWH Leveling System
Reply #7 –
Greetings-
I am a new owner of a 2002 31 food LD.
I was wonder if some models came with leveling jacks or if you can purchase and install jacks.

Thanks in advance,

Mark
St. James, MO
2002 30' IB
Re: Leveling Jacks/HWH Leveling System
Reply #8 –
AFAIK, no LD's come with leveling jacks, though I seem to recall that Kwikee levelers were an option quite a while back.  There are several makes of hydraulic levelers that can be added.  I recommend having it done, but I suppose it could be done by a skilled owner. 

Ken F in NM
'08 MB
Re: Leveling Jacks/HWH Leveling System
Reply #9 –
Quote from: NADAZE!  - 
Greetings-
I am a new owner of a 2002 31 food LD.
I was wonder if some models came with leveling jacks or if you can purchase and install jacks.

Thanks in advance,

Mark
St. James, MO


HWH and Bigfoot seem to be the two to choose from.

The Official Bigfoot© Site - Bigfoot Hydraulic Leveling Systems

Welcome to HWH Corporation

As has been discussed here consider how much you intend to carry in your rig when thinking about this. When I looked into it weights for the system varied from 200 to 250 pounds.

Jim

Re: Leveling Jacks/HWH Leveling System
Reply #10 –
Quote from: Jim & Gayle  - 

HWH and Bigfoot seem to be the two to choose from.

The Official Bigfoot© Site - Bigfoot Hydraulic Leveling Systems

Welcome to HWH Corporation

As has been discussed here consider how much you intend to carry in your rig when thinking about this. When I looked into it weights for the system varied from 200 to 250 pounds.

Jim


I'm a full-timer RVer. I try to keep weight to a minimum,
2002 30' IB
Re: Leveling Jacks/HWH Leveling System
Reply #11 –
Mark--

I brought LDy Lulubelle home to Chillicothe from SoCal in December 2013 (got into the driveway just as our first ice storm of the season was hitting), & the first trip was to White Pigeon in March to get Big Foot levelers installed.  Customer service was outstanding--they were great with the installation, & when I noticed some suspicious fluid in the driveway upon my return home, they worked with my local farm implement repair guy to take care of it under warranty with no problems (I made one call to White Pigeon & they worked everything out with the local guy, who said he just needed to tighten a fitting that had worked loose & topped off the fluid--no problems since).  I've got my dad's big carpentry level that I put on top of the table ledge between the barrel chairs where I can check the bubble back-front & side-side, but I also have a little torpedo level that I use to double check the frig, since that's on the opposite side from the table.  My FEET work in pairs (both back/both front/both left/both right), instead of individually, so a bit less weight/fewer pumps (& cheaper), but it's really not a problem to get her level in less than a couple of minutes.

I love the ability to just put my feet down from the comfort of inside the rig--no getting out in rain/snow/mud/dark of night, & as a solo woman I feel a bit more secure about being able to pick my FEET up & get out of Dodge in a hurry if something should seem dicey (though, after 16 years in the Dept. of Corrections I learned to look at my environment, so I've not really ever been concerned)--though I have had to put some 2 X 12 blocks atop the single set of yellow plastic blocks the previous owners included, when I've parked at my aunt's retirement facility in Denver (the street didn't look like it was crowned that much, but it was significant along the sidewalk/gutter side).  Just me & the 4-Legged Alarm who weighs in at about 20#, though I've had a guest along a couple of times, but we don't take everything imaginable (after all, the kitchen sink is already there   ;D ), so weight has been OK (I had weights done at the Escapees' RV Boot Camp--something I highly recommend...both Boot Camp & weighing).

Have a great time with your new-to-you baby.  If you're ever coming to north Missouri, the offer I've extended to all on this forum is still open for boondocking at the farm--maybe a Midwest group can evolve...


Lynne
Lynne
LDy Lulubelle, Green '05 31' TB
Lilly, the 4-Legged Alarm
Re: Leveling Jacks/HWH Leveling System
Reply #12 –
We had HWH installed on our 32 foot Hawkins diesel pusher, and on our 32 foot Winnebago V-10 gasser.  They worked great! Loved them.  Hit the button from the driver's seat and just like that you are level and solid. Really well made product, in my opinion.Never had a problem. That said, when we downsized to 26 feet, we did not install any levelers. We haven't missed them a bit.  And, as has been mentioned by others, that's a couple of hundred cargo capacity pounds available for other things.  It's a personal call, of course, but I'd say that levelers aren't really necessary on 26 feet or less.
2017 RB
Re: Leveling Jacks/HWH Leveling System
Reply #13 –
I'm with Steve & Ken--LOVE my Quadra Big Feet--especially in rain/snow/mud/dark of night...  I didn't even think about the notion of stability when walking around, or wind gusts (though I have felt a few gusts out on the hill at the farm, but nothing that concerned me); I just wanted to make sure she was always level for the fridge without me having to brave the elements (that's just one reason why I wanted an RV instead of continuing to tent camp--along with a bed that doesn't require contortions to get up off the ground/a convenient bathroom/all the other creature comforts).        

Lynne
Lynne
LDy Lulubelle, Green '05 31' TB
Lilly, the 4-Legged Alarm
Re: Leveling Jacks/HWH Leveling System
Reply #14 –

Since levelers are an aftermarket item, why not wait and see how difficult leveling is for you, using Lynx block and/or ramps.
You might find a better use for the $4000.
After many years of RVing, leveling rarely takes over five minutes. Many times I'm level before the folks with automatic levelers are.
Levelers have their downsides, they add several hundred pounds of weight, hang low and if or when they break down, it can be impossible to move on, when the rams are down.
If parked on soft ground or hot asphalt, plywood boards need to be placed under the rams, to prevent sinking.
LD's undercarriages have limited space for the hydraulic rams and cannot use high-lift cylinders. This means that if the ground is uneven, the extended rams may barely touch the ground,, much less level, without adding wood blocks.
Welcome to crawling under the rig, the one thing most hate to do.

In my experience, a large percentage of the hydraulic leveler problems are caused by poor installation.
Find a shop with good recommendations. Reject low bids, it takes time to do the job right...as usual.
Both HWH and Quadra Bigfoot are established brands, so repair parts should be available.
Many here got stuck with the Kwikee levelers that LD used to have installed. The company stopped building or serving their discontinued levelers, leaving the owners out of luck.

Most folks don't have a clue on how to manually raise the rams, in case of an electrical or hydraulic failure. I do understand how they work and have spent many quality hours at the end of an Caravan, helping someone whose levelers have gone bad.
Usually this require disconnecting one or more of the hydraulic lines and then manually pushing the rams up, dumping a good quantity of hydraulic oil on the ground. A nasty, dirty job at best.
If you have levelers, it's good to have a service manual that covers troubleshooting.

While rocking is not a problem for most, if it is, an inexpensive set of scissor jacks, bolted to the rear frame, can be installed.
Amazon.com: Prime Steel 18229 Black 24" Scissor Jack with 1-Handle (...
They are easy to raise and lower, using a battery drill, and will eliminate the rocking. However, they cannot be used for leveling.

Larry

As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Leveling Jacks/HWH Leveling System
Reply #15 –
Since we had two threads going on leveling jacks, I merged them and retitled the topic to make it easier to find these subjects in the search function.

Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Re: Leveling Jacks/HWH Leveling System
Reply #16 –
We have a 2006 31' and bought it from original owners who had already installed HWH system.  We use them when we are staying somewhere for more than overnite or uneven ground.  Also have blocks to augment if needed.  We are not full timers.  Do not feel unstable when not using at a level site.  No rocking, etc.  You can always try out some trips and see how stable you feel.  Then add them if you don't feel secure.  Their maintenance is a pain.  Sometimes they don't all extend and then we have to do it individually or put blocks under the one that won't extend entirely.   If I bought new I would not make them an addition to a rig.
2006 31' IB Anniversary Edition; Tow 97' Wrangler
Re: Leveling Jacks/HWH Leveling System
Reply #17 –
First, we've not found that our 27' rocks or moves around so much as to bother us.  Sometimes, we've felt a bump from 35+ mph winds, but that's been rare.  Secondly, DW and I have tried to adhere to the "Keep it Simple" principle.  If we ever order a new LD, it will not include an electric step, outside shower, that fancy clock with a transmitter under the coach, or a built-in Satellite Dish.  I'd even like to experiment with a different kind of OTA antenna so that I can even eliminate the roof mounted antenna.  I'd like only two (2) ceiling vents with fantastic fans.  (But I also know that the Factory will probably not agree to some of my day dreams.)  And finally, the idea of $4000 Leveling Jacks, extra weight, and the potential problems just ruins my day.

I should add that I can see great benefit for Leveling Jacks for those traveling alone.  I have not tried to level our LD by myself.  I suppose it's something I should try one of these days, but with DW as our ground crew, it's low on my list of priorities.  And that's what I've got say.
Re: Leveling Jacks/HWH Leveling System
Reply #18 –
We have not noticed much of any rocking of our MB when parked.  We use leveling blocks, the kind that stack from Walmart, and have not had any problems.  Had to level a couple of times in heavy rain, but part of the experience.  I would recommend starting without mechanical levelers, and add only if it would make your camping experiences much better.
2011 MB
Re: Leveling Jacks/HWH Leveling System
Reply #19 –
" We use leveling blocks, the kind that stack from Walmart ..."
----
I don't know which blocks Walmart sells, but, IMO, the only plastic blocks worth using are the orange Lynx Levelers; these are available from several online (LDO Amazon link!) and "stix and brix" vendors:

Lynx Levelers | Tri Lynx Corporation

Lynx are tough, wear well, are not particularly expensive, stack and clean easily, and are impervious to heat, cold, and "wet". I carry 12, and have encountered a few situations where having a few more would have required less "creativity" in block arrangement.

Perhaps the quality has improved in more recent years, but from a past experience (some miscreant pinched my Lynx blocks and I had to get what was available), the yellow blocks (Camping World and others) are flimsy, "scoot" much more easily than Lynx, and are prone to cracking and/or shattering, particularly on uneven surfaces.

Of course, one can fabricate blocks and levelers in all sizes and configurations from plywood and/or solid wood; the downside of some homemade wood blocks is weight, particularly if they're not sealed against water, and finding storage/carrying space for larger and heavier blocks.

A "gardener's" foam kneeling pad is very handy when blocking the duals; this makes it a little less stressful on one's knees when positioning the blocks/stacks under the rig. (A reminder to new RVers; block both duals when leveling!)

I know that, for several reasons, many would not do without automatic levelers; the choice is definitely a YMMV thing! I chose not to have levelers not because of the weight (a 23.5' has plenty of CCC) or cost, but because of the potential downsides expressed in Larry's post. Admittedly, there are times when it would be more comfortable and/or convenient to sit in the warm, dry cab pushing buttons rather than popping in and out of the rig,  kneeling in the mud in cold rain and wind positioning blocks, but, in most conditions, leveling with blocks is a pretty fast, easy, and effective procedure.  :D

Joan
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Leveling Jacks/HWH Leveling System
Reply #20 –
Traxless wrote:
"DW and I have tried to adhere to the "Keep it Simple" principle.  If we ever order a new LD, it will not include an electric step, outside shower, that fancy clock with a transmitter under the coach, or a built-in Satellite Dish.  I'd even like to experiment with a different kind of OTA antenna so that I can even eliminate the roof mounted antenna.  I'd like only two (2) ceiling vents with fantastic fans.  (But I also know that the Factory will probably not agree to some of my day dreams.)"

Could not agree more, Ed. 

Ray S.


2017 RB
Re: Leveling Jacks/HWH Leveling System
Reply #21 –
I'd like only two (2) ceiling vents with fantastic fans.
---
Current models (excluding the 31') have three FFs, one each in the bath, the lounge, and the cabover; which fan would you omit? If I were ordering a new rig, I'd want all 3, but YMMV.

Joan
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Leveling Jacks/HWH Leveling System
Reply #22 –
Yes, those Fantastic fans are great. Even when we are in the SoCal deserts, we use the fans much more often than the air conditioner.  if someone pointed a gun at my head and told me to surrender either my fans or my AC, I'd say take the ac.  What is even better these days is that the fans also have remotes.
2017 RB
Re: Leveling Jacks/HWH Leveling System
Reply #23 –
I searched for this topic because my 91 LD has a HWH leveling system. I was happy because the thought of leveling scared me. I read several places the refrigerator could be ruined if it wasn’t. My first camping experience the front wheels came off the ground on what felt like a level gravel site. My friend was also camping there and didn’t like that.  Between him and his buddy with a level, they put it in manual mode and corrected it. I presumed I missed a step. This weekend I was alone and pulled in after dark. I got my pads out and with directions in hand tried again. The front wheels were so far off the ground I didn’t feel safe letting it that way. I put it back to store. I was afraid to turn on the propane or the fridge since it wasn’t level (I remembered to bring mine).  Got up the next morning and left since all the food in my fridge was now for the fox and groundhog. 😥
Am I overreacting to the wheels being off the ground? I thought it might be bad for the suspension? If that’s considered ok, should I carry blocks to put under them?
The system was installed professionally in Indiana in 2012. I’m sure there’s somewhere in PA that would service the system if you think it’s necessary.
Thank you for your thoughts.
Not all who wander are lost...

1991 22' RL
Re: Leveling Jacks/HWH Leveling System
Reply #24 –
PJ, I have had my front wheels off the ground many times.  It will not hurt the suspension.  There are some things you should do for safety.  First, make certain your parking brake is set.  Second, put chocks against the front and back of both rear wheels.  Third, do not park such that the rear wheels come off the ground.  That would give you no protection from the rig rolling.  Rather, turn the rig to face the other way so the front wheels are lifted.

I commend your caution.  Not being certain, rather than assuming all would be fine, you lowered the rig.  That was prudent.  Food is not expensive to replace.  Mechanical stuff is.

The issue with the refrigerator needing to be level is that the coolant drains back and forth in a metal tube behind the refrigerator, in the process cooling and condensing.  If an unleveled rig allows that condensate to gather and stay in a pool, that kills the refrigerator.

While I have often had my front wheels off the ground, it is possible that something is wrong with your system.  I would suggest a few tests.  Find a fairly level spot, but not perfectly level.  Let your levelers bring the rig to level.  When they are done, is the floor level?  If so, did they lift any wheels off the ground?  Now reverse the rig so it is facing the other way and try it again.  With a moderate grade to work with, the levelers should bring your rig to level but should not have to extend to maximum, nor lift any wheels off the ground.  If they do not work that way, you will need to find a service facility to check their function.

I use the Quadra Bigfoot levelers.  Over the past 10 1/2 years, my system has lost its "level" setting twice, requiring recalibration.  For my system, that means using a level and the manual setting to get the rig level.  Once there, I dial in a code, and the system is reset.  Your system may need something that is that simple.

Ken F in WY
'08 MB