Wire routing? December 27, 2016, 02:56:22 pm I have a midbath. It has an electrical outlet near the floor, on the angled wall by the bathroom door. The wire feeding that outlet is a single, 3/c wire that disappears under the shower pan. That wire joins other wires feeding the outlet over the sink and the outside outlet, before all of them get power from the outlet above the breaker box. I want to put that outlet near the floor on a dedicated breaker, but I have no idea where that outlet's wire splices together with the other wires feeding the other outlets. I suspect the splicing to be EITHER behind the low access panel on the rear bathroom wall OR in a junction box near the front bathroom wall near the water pump area. Does anyone know? Getting to either area will not be easy, as I have a built in bookcase in front of the former and a surge protector blocking access to the only junction box I see in the latter. I tried calling the factory, but they are closed until January 2.ThanksKen F in NM
Re: Wire routing? Reply #1 – December 28, 2016, 04:57:36 am Hi Ken. I don't have a Mid bath, and you've probably thought of this, but; If you are putting a new circuit breaker in the electrical panel, you would run a new 12 AWG romex wire to the existing plug box. The old wires can be 'safed' off by wrapping them, and leaving them in the outlet box. Label them as to what breaker they are still connected to. The old cable would be spliced inside a box, usually an upstream, box with an outlet also served by the original breaker. You can leave this wire in place, so you don't need to get into other outlet boxes. Running the new wire cable would be the hard part, and I don't know if you have an empty place in the breaker panel. The new breaker for your dedicated outlet should be a GFCI, always a good idea. I have an earlier version of Harbor Freight's 'Circuit breaker detective, #96934' You plug part of it into your outlet, it transmits a signal back to the breaker box. The 'Detective' part held next to the breaker will beep. Turning off the breaker will stop the 'beep transmitter' to confirm the breaker's identity. By holding this receiver next to other outlets you can identify them. You need to turn off all the other breakers in the panel to avoid coupling into all of your outlets. The one I have can also follow the wires from outlet to outlet if you can stay pretty near the cable run. That should be easier in a motorhome, than in a house through drywall, metal plumbing and metal braces. A volume control on my older version allows you to change the sensitivity a bit. Mine has a button on the transmitter that can trip a GFCI to test it. The newer HF device doesn't seem to have this feature. HTH RonB 1 Likes
Re: Wire routing? Reply #2 – December 28, 2016, 10:13:48 am Thanks, Ron, but you missed the point. I know how to deal with the area inside the breaker box. I know what breakers do what. I know what outlets are connected to what breakers. The issue was that a bunch of outlets are on one wiring circuit, which is spliced together somewhere, point unknown, someplace between the breaker box and the outlet in question. I found a better alternative which, coincidentally, gave me part of my answers. There is a LD owner nearby. Her significant other did some mods on hers, and he was able to tell me what he did. His suggestion was rather than split off that outlet, to put another outlet under the wardrobe space. Removing the access panel at the back of the bathroom reveals a channel under the floor that goes to the wardrobe base, thus making a path for a wire from below the drawers to the access panel at the rear bathroom wall. There are angled “baffles” behind the toilet that create a channel carrying water lines and electrical lines across the back of the bathroom. With the baffles removed it was pretty easy to use a piece of 3/c wire to feed from the rear access panel to the space under the sink. That made it easy to run a wire from below the wardrobe, under the floor, behind the shower to the breaker box. This morning, I will buy the wire I need and run it. I will get an outlet, box, trim plate, and dual breaker, 20 amp one side, 15 amp the other. I will replace the 20 amp breaker for the microwave with the dual breaker, connecting the 20 amp side to the microwave and the 15 amp side to the new 3/c wire going to the dedicated outlet.As to the existing outlet, it is wired from the outlet to the aforementioned access panel, where it reverses direction and runs under the floor to the outside outlet. Since I had a better solution, I did not make the effort to trace it beyond there.Ken F in NM 4 Likes
Re: Wire routing? Reply #3 – December 28, 2016, 04:11:48 pm When we head west, we going to bring our "to-do" list of impossible projects and search for Ken. We'll pay whatever it takes!Btw, Ken ... well done on this project. 1 Likes
Re: Wire routing? Reply #4 – December 28, 2016, 10:20:06 pm Uh oh...Seriously, if I can help...Ken F in NM 1 Likes
Re: Wire routing? Reply #5 – December 29, 2016, 09:34:41 pm "When we head west, we going to bring our "to-do" list of impossible projects and search for Ken. We'll pay whatever it takes!Btw, Ken ... well done on this project."He's a gem. Ken, a friend, and I completed a couple of projects on my rig the past couple of days. They would not have been accomplished without Ken's insights and cheerful way of pitching in. Thank you, Ken! 1 Likes
Re: Wire routing? Reply #6 – December 29, 2016, 10:33:24 pm Quote from: Jan Forseth - December 29, 2016, 09:34:41 pmKen, a friend, and I completed a couple of projects on my rig the past couple of days. They would not have been accomplished without Ken's insights and cheerful way of pitching in. Thank you, Ken!Inquiring minds would like to know what were the "couple of projects?" LOL. Hoping to add to my list of projects.
Re: Wire routing? Reply #7 – December 30, 2016, 05:08:05 pm I'm going to be traveling out of the country soon, without my Lazy Daze (sniff, sniff). So I wanted to be able to winterize without having to blow out the water system. We (mostly Ken and another friend) added a water heater bypass. What a hassle trying to do it through the bottom two wardrobe drawers. We only got halfway, and wouldn't have even gotten that far except Ken had an innovative idea about doing it a little differently than usual, hooking up the bypass valves opposite of how they normally would be. The next day, Ken and I disassembled the curbside couch to get better access to the water heater, and then our friend was able to finish up the installation of the second bypass valve.The second project was also related to winterizing. Ken and I collected the parts for making a nifty device to isolate the water pump. Not only does the gizmo have a shutoff valve, it also has a T with a removable, threaded cap. It will enable me to attach a hose and put the other end of the hose into a gallon-sized jug of RV antifreeze, suck it into the system, and NOT fill the water heater with 6 gallons of wasted antifreeze thanks to the water heater bypass installed earlier.We had to orient the gizmo just right so that it would fit and not stick out of the compartment below the sink. It ended up being best to do it vertically. Ken's idea. He also figured out a way to do it without having to waste the 60 gallons of water in the freshwater tank--very quickly!I've had to replace my water pump TWICE previously and this never happens at a good time or location. I did it all by my little self both times. A side benefit of the gizmo is that I won't have to drain the freshwater tank in order to install the NEXT water pump, nor will I have to refill the freshwater tank. This means I can accomplish the replacement even when boondocking in the middle of nowhere, which is where I spend most of my time. Woohoooo! Ken is a genius.Now we're all sore after the contortions needed to get the projects done, but I'm ever so grateful. I can now sleep at night without worrying about the winterizing and will be able to travel knowing that my Lazy Daze isn't going to have busted pipes or a split water heater during a freeze.
Re: Wire routing? Reply #8 – December 30, 2016, 06:32:30 pm I like to extend my appreciation for such a wonderful description of your projects. I can see why you are so pleased with the results and even relieved about the upgrades. Well done for sure.
Re: Wire routing? Reply #9 – December 30, 2016, 10:57:08 pm Quote from: Jan Forseth - December 30, 2016, 05:08:05 pmI'm going to be traveling out of the country soon, without my Lazy Daze (sniff, sniff). So I wanted to be able to winterize without having to blow out the water system. We (mostly Ken and another friend) added a water heater bypass. What a hassle trying to do it through the bottom two wardrobe drawers. We only got halfway, and wouldn't have even gotten that far except Ken had an innovative idea about doing it a little differently than usual, hooking up the bypass valves opposite of how they normally would be. The next day, Ken and I disassembled the curbside couch to get better access to the water heater, and then our friend was able to finish up the installation of the second bypass valve.The second project was also related to winterizing. Ken and I collected the parts for making a nifty device to isolate the water pump. Not only does the gizmo have a shutoff valve, it also has a T with a removable, threaded cap. It will enable me to attach a hose and put the other end of the hose into a gallon-sized jug of RV antifreeze, suck it into the system, and NOT fill the water heater with 6 gallons of wasted antifreeze thanks to the water heater bypass installed earlier.We had to orient the gizmo just right so that it would fit and not stick out of the compartment below the sink. It ended up being best to do it vertically. Ken's idea. He also figured out a way to do it without having to waste the 60 gallons of water in the freshwater tank--very quickly!I've had to replace my water pump TWICE previously and this never happens at a good time or location. I did it all by my little self both times. A side benefit of the gizmo is that I won't have to drain the freshwater tank in order to install the NEXT water pump, nor will I have to refill the freshwater tank. This means I can accomplish the replacement even when boondocking in the middle of nowhere, which is where I spend most of my time. Woohoooo! Ken is a genius.Now we're all sore after the contortions needed to get the projects done, but I'm ever so grateful. I can now sleep at night without worrying about the winterizing and will be able to travel knowing that my Lazy Daze isn't going to have busted pipes or a split water heater during a freeze.Jan, I'm curious. Wouldn't it have been easier to blow out the lines?Chris 1 Likes
Re: Wire routing? Reply #10 – December 31, 2016, 12:10:07 pm Chris, I will chime in on that. It might have been, but Jan does not have a compressor with a tank reserve. So, she would likely not have gotten a strong, sustained pulse of air to clear the lines. Also, as a solo task, the fitting to blow out the lines has no threaded schrader valve, so she would have to open a faucet, go outside, turn on the compressor, hold it on the connector for a while, then hope that the line was clear, then move on to the next faucet. The way she wanted to do it is brilliant. She drains the system as best she can, and isolates the water heater and fresh water tank. She sticks a hose end in a gallon of antifreeze, turns the pump on, and goes from faucet to faucet, opening them until they run pink. At that point, she will have a system with the lines and pump filled with antifreeze, the water heater empty, the fresh water tank empty, and antifreeze in all the traps. Turn the pump off and open the various faucets so there is no pressure buildup and she can travel with peace of mind. When she gets home, she flushes the lines with a gallon of fresh water, fills the fresh water tank, opens the connections to the tank and the water heater, and she is done. Yes, it was work to set it up, but from here on, it makes winterizing MUCH easier for her.Ken F in NM
Re: Wire routing? Reply #11 – December 31, 2016, 12:26:41 pm Quote from: Chris Horst - December 30, 2016, 10:57:08 pmJan, I'm curious. Wouldn't it have been easier to blow out the lines?ChrisAs I was composing this, Ken has replied (thanks, Ken!). I'll still post my reply:For me, no. I have two compressors. One 12-volt which I carry in my Jeep, one 120AC which I carry in the Lazy Daze. Both compressors are tankless and thus not ideal for the task as one cannot control the pressure. I was wary of breaking seals with too much pressure, or not getting out all of the water with too little pressure. I could have purchased a compressor with a tank. But as a fulltimer, I have no desire to store one any larger than what I've already got, as my compartments and cabinets are totally full. I also could have driven the Lazy Daze to a gas station (Ken pointed out this option). But as the time for my trip approaches, I will not be anywhere near a gas station and a dump station in close proximity. Both would be needed for the winterizing. The other thing that Ken pointed out is that even if I were to blow out the lines, there would still be water left in the water pump. Not a good thing, as it could freeze. I still would have had to figure out a way to get antifreeze into that water pump, something that the gizmo mentioned above will accomplish.The other thing is that I'm going to have to do a lot of last-minute stuff to prepare for this trip, and minimizing the stress is important to me. I wanted to get as much done well ahead of time as I could. As an ISTJ (Meyers-Briggs) that's the way I'm wired. We ISTJs plan to the nth degree.With my previous RV (a Bigfoot), I had winterized using the antifreeze method, so I'm more familiar and confident in that method.There's the bonus of being able to more easily swap out a water pump in the future, too.So, despite all the work involved, I think I'm in a good spot now for my situation. Other people's situations may point them in the direction of blowing out the lines. I sure understand that. 2 Likes
Re: Wire routing? Reply #12 – January 01, 2017, 03:51:10 pm Quote from: Jan Forseth - December 31, 2016, 12:26:41 pmAs I was composing this, Ken has replied (thanks, Ken!). I'll still post my reply:For me, no. I have two compressors. One 12-volt which I carry in my Jeep, one 120AC which I carry in the Lazy Daze. Both compressors are tankless and thus not ideal for the task as one cannot control the pressure. I was wary of breaking seals with too much pressure, or not getting out all of the water with too little pressure. I could have purchased a compressor with a tank. But as a fulltimer, I have no desire to store one any larger than what I've already got, as my compartments and cabinets are totally full. I also could have driven the Lazy Daze to a gas station (Ken pointed out this option). But as the time for my trip approaches, I will not be anywhere near a gas station and a dump station in close proximity. Both would be needed for the winterizing. The other thing that Ken pointed out is that even if I were to blow out the lines, there would still be water left in the water pump. Not a good thing, as it could freeze. I still would have had to figure out a way to get antifreeze into that water pump, something that the gizmo mentioned above will accomplish.The other thing is that I'm going to have to do a lot of last-minute stuff to prepare for this trip, and minimizing the stress is important to me. I wanted to get as much done well ahead of time as I could. As an ISTJ (Meyers-Briggs) that's the way I'm wired. We ISTJs plan to the nth degree.With my previous RV (a Bigfoot), I had winterized using the antifreeze method, so I'm more familiar and confident in that method.There's the bonus of being able to more easily swap out a water pump in the future, too.So, despite all the work involved, I think I'm in a good spot now for my situation. Other people's situations may point them in the direction of blowing out the lines. I sure understand that.Thanks for the explanation, Jan. Makes sense in your situation. Just in case anyone reading this wonders about the "water left in the water pump", let me add that having used a compressor for 14 years, part of the blowing out procedure is to turn the water pump on after the water tank has been thoroughly drained and the water pump hose is disconnected (and connected to the compressor). The remain water in the pump bubbles out on a rag underneath it. So far I have never had a problem with it freezing up.Chris 1 Likes
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