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Topic: Need opinion on a LD (What do you think?) (Read 1092 times) previous topic - next topic
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Need opinion on a LD (What do you think?)
I found a 1993 24' with 97K miles on it.  Needs all new tires and a water pump.  It looks okay.  I don't see evidence of any leaks, but I have to see it in person to be sure. This is the 3rd owner.  They said no accidents, though I'll run a vin report to be sure.  I've seen this same rig for 20K, 14K, 12K.  This person wants 14k, may negotiate a -little- which seems odd given that it needs 2k worth of tires a new windshield and a new water pump, never mine the miles and I don't think the roof has been sealed in many years. Not many pictures.

What is a fair price for this if everything else is working and there aren't any leaks?

Thank you.

Mimi

[Edited topic title to be more descriptive - Michelle]
Save a life.
Adopting a pet is the closest a human
will ever come to choosing a relative.

hsus.org  aspca.org
1992 Lazy Daze T/K  23.5' Ford 460 c.i.d./7.6 liter V8 engine, electronic fuel injection, E4OD 4-speed auto transmission
Full time 6/2017

Re: Pricing a 1993 LD
Reply #1
Sounds like it may be a little high.
Dale from Downey 27’ 2012 RB,”Casa Verde”, 2000 Jeep Wrangler. Formerly1991 RB & 1990 Jeep Wrangler.

Re: Pricing a 1993 LD
Reply #2
I think so because according to the price guide, it should be 12K.  It needs all new tires, the roof needs to be sealed, I worry that the brakes haven't been touched in years and it has that problematic front overcab window.  I think I'll look elsewhere.

Thank you.
Save a life.
Adopting a pet is the closest a human
will ever come to choosing a relative.

hsus.org  aspca.org
1992 Lazy Daze T/K  23.5' Ford 460 c.i.d./7.6 liter V8 engine, electronic fuel injection, E4OD 4-speed auto transmission
Full time 6/2017

Re: What do you think?
Reply #3
Like everyone, I too have an opinion. Which is that this is a very high Price. I have recounted our purchase experience here before. 1992 26.5 MB with 33k miles. Paid $9k. I  thought that was properly priced. If I found a certified perfect Low mileage 1993 I would consider that Price a reasonable starting point.

Good luck! Be patient. The deals will come along.
Paul
'92 Mid Bath

Re: Need opinion on a LD (What do you think?)
Reply #4
I think so because according to the price guide, it should be 12K.  It needs all new tires, the roof needs to be sealed, I worry that the brakes haven't been touched in years and it has that problematic front overcab window.  I think I'll look elsewhere.

Thank you.
If it has the front window it can't be a 93, the window was eliminated some years before that. It may look like it has windows from the outside because LD painted on faux windows for some years afterward. Prices are somewhat dependent on location, LD in Socal seem to ask higher prices than elsewhere for example. I paid more than I expected but after looking a long time I just wanted to go camping!
98 MB

Re: Need opinion on a LD (What do you think?)
Reply #5
"If it has the front window it can't be a 93, the window was eliminated some years before that."
---
According to Andy's "Changes by Year", the front window on the overcab was eliminated in mid-1990, i.e., models built in early 1990 will likely have the overcab front window; models built later in 1990 will likely have a solid front.

AFAIK, the sticker on the jamb of the driver's side door should have the date of the chassis manufacture; a plate on the driver's side should state the build date of the "box". The two dates may not be the same; it's not uncommon for a chassis manufacture date to precede the box build date, sometimes by several months.
2003 TK has a new home

Re: Need opinion on a LD (What do you think?)
Reply #6
AFAIK, the sticker on the jamb of the driver's side door should have the date of the chassis manufacture; a plate on the driver's side should state the build date of the "box". The two dates may not be the same; it's not uncommon for a chassis manufacture date to precede the box build date, sometimes by several months.
It isn't common to find a chassis that is a year or two older than the coach.
The year of the LD is based upon the coach year. This can get tricky when dealing with chassis problems.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze

Re: Need opinion on a LD (What do you think?)
Reply #7
Like everyone, I too have an opinion. Which is that this is a very high Price. I have recounted our purchase experience here before. 1992 26.5 MB with 33k miles. Paid $9k. I  thought that was properly priced. If I found a certified perfect Low mileage 1993 I would consider that Price a reasonable starting point.

Good luck! Be patient. The deals will come along.

Thank you Paul!  That's what I was thinking, but I was even thinking 8k or less because this woman is the third owner and hasn't done a thing to it.  I'm worried about repairs and, based on what you wrote in my other thread (sorry didn't mean to start two) I do think I could easily drop a lot of money into this one.  The thing is, how can I know?  I don't care so much about the interior stuff, though it looks pretty clean inside, but I do want good tires, brakes, no leaks, no wood rot, no generator or heat issues and I would like a windshield without a crack in it.  In my extreme inexperience, I feel like I could put 5K into it immediately because I can't do brakes, etc. myself.

When you bought the 92, did you end up putting a lot of money into it from the beginning?

Thanks for your help.

Mimi

Save a life.
Adopting a pet is the closest a human
will ever come to choosing a relative.

hsus.org  aspca.org
1992 Lazy Daze T/K  23.5' Ford 460 c.i.d./7.6 liter V8 engine, electronic fuel injection, E4OD 4-speed auto transmission
Full time 6/2017

Re: Need opinion on a LD (What do you think?)
Reply #8
If it has the front window it can't be a 93, the window was eliminated some years before that. It may look like it has windows from the outside because LD painted on faux windows for some years afterward. Prices are somewhat dependent on location, LD in Socal seem to ask higher prices than elsewhere for example. I paid more than I expected but after looking a long time I just wanted to go camping!

Yes sorry, I miss-typed.  It doesn't have a front window.  The rig is in CA, so I expect a bigger price, but I think this one is really quite overpriced.  I found one out of state that looks good, but it would cost me too much just to go see it, never mind bringing it back.  I was also concerned about getting stuck on the road, so I'm trying to stay sort of local..within 500 miles.

I want a LD yesterday, so I understand how you feel.:-)

Mimi
Save a life.
Adopting a pet is the closest a human
will ever come to choosing a relative.

hsus.org  aspca.org
1992 Lazy Daze T/K  23.5' Ford 460 c.i.d./7.6 liter V8 engine, electronic fuel injection, E4OD 4-speed auto transmission
Full time 6/2017

 
Re: Need opinion on a LD (What do you think?)
Reply #9
It isn't common to find a chassis that is a year or two older than the coach.
The year of the LD is based upon the coach year. This can get tricky when dealing with chassis problems.

It can get tricky for a buyer as well.  At least it was for me when trying to determine the year to base the value on.

After having a couple of LD transactions fall thru due to inspection issues I ended up putting a down payment on a Bigfoot out of Seattle that was advertised as an 05 but was registered as an 04.  The original invoice showed it was sold out of So Cal as a new 05 Bigfoot in Oct 05.

I called the CA DMV to see what year the original owner had registered it as but "they" couldn't/wouldn't tell me but did say it would be registered as an 04 based on the chassis VIN if brought back to CA.

Ended up not buying the Bigfoot and as luck would have it a LD 26.5 MB came up a couple weeks later  that was advertised as an 07 coach with 06 chassis.

The LD had an 06 chassis VIN and was registered to 2nd owner in WA as an O6 but delivered to original So Cal buyer in Feb 07 per original invoice.  The LD badge on the driver side said O6 as well as the LD owners manual and original invoice so I was  sure it was an 06.

Still I called LD before closing the deal to ask two things:  is the roof on the LD supposed to be loose and what year is this LD?  I think I spoke to Vince but don't recall for sure.  His answers were short and to the point:  the LD roof is a floating roof and the LD is an 06 based on chassis VIN.

That was good enough for me and I became the proud owner of a new to me "06"  26.5 MB last Apr.

Finally when I went to the CA DMV to register it they checked the coach badge on the drivers side as
well as the chassis VIN.

Which makes me wonder if there are CA LD owners out there with a chassis VIN year that does
not match the coach badge year and if so what year was used on the title - but that's a different thread.

Trying to get back on topic ...
As a buyer I used the registration year and condition to value a prospective RV but can understand as a new owner
and potential seller someday at least mentioning the  delivery/in service year if different than the registration year if have paperwork to back it up.

Rich
2006 MB

Re: Need opinion on a LD (What do you think?)
Reply #10
Yes Mimi, immediate. The first thing we discovered when we cleaned it up was rot. Which, like rot always does, was promiscuous. The second thing was another bit of rot. After that fix, which was extensive, I began upgrading (repairing) things.

Mechanically ours was/is doing well. New tires, fluids and filters.  I chose to do other work to it that was not critical, like fuel pump, power steering pump, suspension.
Paul
'92 Mid Bath

Re: Need opinion on a LD (What do you think?)
Reply #11

Which makes me wonder if there are CA LD owners out there with a chassis VIN year that does
not match the coach badge year and if so what year was used on the title - but that's a different thread.
[/quote]

Our TK was delivered in March of '07 but was built on an '06 chassis. It is titled in CA by the chassis. When we were ordering in October of '06, Todd offered a discount if we would accept the last of their '06 chassis.  It was either $500 or $1,000. I forget, but I do remember thinking that the discount would pay for one of my add-ones, either the solar panel or the sat dish. Hope it was the panel as we've never used the dish. 😉-- Jon & Loni
(Former) ‘06 TK “Albatross.” And (former) Vespa 250.   Alas, no more; both are gone.😕 Great memories remain! 😄

Re: Need opinion on a LD (What do you think?)
Reply #12
Yes Mimi, immediate. The first thing we discovered when we cleaned it up was rot. Which, like rot always does, was promiscuous. The second thing was another bit of rot. After that fix, which was extensive, I began upgrading (repairing) things.

Mechanically ours was/is doing well. New tires, fluids and filters.  I chose to do other work to it that was not critical, like fuel pump, power steering pump, suspension.
Well, I must admit, it does make me nervous even considering an early 90's LD.  To be safe, I'm assuming it will need repair from rot.  I just don't know what something like that costs and how long it can take.  Would an inspection uncover everything that's wrong including hidden rot?  How would I find someone qualified to inspect a LD?

Thank you Paul.

Mimi
Save a life.
Adopting a pet is the closest a human
will ever come to choosing a relative.

hsus.org  aspca.org
1992 Lazy Daze T/K  23.5' Ford 460 c.i.d./7.6 liter V8 engine, electronic fuel injection, E4OD 4-speed auto transmission
Full time 6/2017

Re: Need opinion on a LD (What do you think?)
Reply #13
It can get tricky for a buyer as well.  At least it was for me when trying to determine the year to base the value on.

Still I called LD before closing the deal to ask two things:  is the roof on the LD supposed to be loose and what year is this LD?  I think I spoke to Vince but don't recall for sure.  His answers were short and to the point:  the LD roof is a floating roof and the LD is an 06 based on chassis VIN.

Rich

I was wondering why it's important to know the date of the chassis compared to the rig and how does that effect the value?

Thanks...

Mimi


Save a life.
Adopting a pet is the closest a human
will ever come to choosing a relative.

hsus.org  aspca.org
1992 Lazy Daze T/K  23.5' Ford 460 c.i.d./7.6 liter V8 engine, electronic fuel injection, E4OD 4-speed auto transmission
Full time 6/2017

Re: Need opinion on a LD (What do you think?)
Reply #14
I was wondering why it's important to know the date of the chassis compared to the rig and how does that effect the value?
Once an LD is more than a few years old, a one year discrepancy, between the chassis and coach build dates, become irrelevant, condition becomes the prime determiner of value.
How to find an inspector?  I would start by checking with RV shops in the area where the RV is located.

Even the best inspector or mechanic will not find all the warts, but the will find things you would never see or even know to look for.

Larry

Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze

Re: Need opinion on a LD (What do you think?)
Reply #15
Finding rot is a challenge sometimes for anyone not specifically looking for it. Make sure your inspector is aware of the LD construction and weaknesses. Like the corner end caps, roof seams, bathroom window. 
Paul
'92 Mid Bath

Re: Need opinion on a LD (What do you think?) Now including inspection
Reply #16
Finding rot is a challenge sometimes for anyone not specifically looking for it. Make sure your inspector is aware of the LD construction and weaknesses. Like the corner end caps, roof seams, bathroom window.

An inspector best friend is an ice pick.
If an area feels soft to the hand, gently push the ice pick into it.  If it easily  goes into the wood, there's likely rot.
Make sure the owner knows what you are doing and is OK with it.
In all models, check the front interior corners, down at the bottom of the mattress (or the back of the entertainment center), for softness, moisture or that funky mold smell.
Do the same under each window, especially the bottom corners. Defective window seals allow water into the frame.
Any area that seems soft, moist or smells should have the ice pick examination.

Find the LD's coach water pump and examine the area under it. Water pumps leaks can go undetected for months and years, if the owner is inattentive .
The area under the toilet should be examined for softness, possible caused by a leaking water line or drain.
Usually there is a bad smell associated with drain leaks.
Look under the sinks for damage caused by leaking faucets or drains.
This is similar to maintaining a house.
 
Check the bottom the rear wall, from under the coach. The wood bottom of the wall (it's a 2X4) is exposed to the elements and has a coating of asphalt emulsion that often hides rot. Rot in the bottom of the wall can be caused by a leaky rear window, loose end caps, or in a few cases, where the spare tire bucket has pulled away from the rear wall, exposing a gap that channels rain water into the wall.  The bottom of the rear wall is a great place to practice with your ice pick. Good wood will not allow the ice pick to penetrate deeply.
While under the rig, check to see if the holding tanks are secure, Many have securing clips that can slip off, as the hardware loosens with age. 

End caps are another major cause of problems, primarily in older LDs.
Under the caps there are drainage channels, built to safely drain any water that gets in.  In new models, the drain channels are coated with a sticky polyurethane sealant, which seems to hold up well.
Older models (not sure when this changed) had the drain channels coated with an asphalt emulsion, which isn't as permanent, pealing off the inside of the channels, as it ages.
If this happens, along with a leaking end cap, rot can develop.
Keeping the caps firmly attached and well sealed is very important.  It ranks right up there with roof and window seals.

Rot can also exist in the roof, where a vent, antenna  or the roof A/C is leaking.  Look at the ceiling of any LD you are interested in. The ceiling should be flat, with no noticeable sags. If an area looks like it is sagging, use your hands to push and examine the area for softness.

Older floor plans had plywood exterior storage bins ( 24' T/Ks until 2014). The plywood bins were coated in asphalt emulsion which, once again peals off with age and exposure, allowing the wood to break down and/or sag.
Most newer models have plastic bins and do not have rot problems but can sag if overloaded for long periods.

If you are lucky enough to find a leak free LD, put sealing of the roof, end caps and windows on the top of your 'to do' list.
It's the best thing you can do to preserve the coach for years to come. End cap and window sealing are chores many of us can handle.
Roof sealing is more involved but many here have done it themselves.
I have posted multiple articles on how to do this. Search is your friend.

Larry


Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze

Re: Need opinion on a LD (What do you think?)
Reply #17
Find the LD's coach water pump and examine the area under it. Water pumps leaks can go undetected for months and years, if the owner is inattentive .

Look under the sinks for damage caused by leaking faucets or drains.
This is similar to maintaining a house.

Larry


As usual great advice from Larry.

This is the reason we have audible water leak detectors by the water pump and under the sink. Not too long ago our water pump failed and we got the warning before damage occurred. This reminds me we need to check the batteries in them.

Jim

Re: Need opinion on a LD (What do you think?)
Reply #18
I was wondering why it's important to know the date of the chassis compared to the rig and how does that effect the value?

Just offering as one reason the advertised date may not match date on title once you get that far.

Definitely agree with Larry it's mostly about condition and one year diff isn't going to factor in too much other than potentially causing it to fall outside your search range or if financing since bank will value it based on the titled year.

I used this guy based on his user reviews to inspect an RV in the Orange county area.
RV Inspection Sothern California

 He provides a basic checklist with photos and comments on questionable items and talks to you before and after.  It was worth it to me in deciding whether to move on or go see it.

Rich
2006 MB

Re: Need opinion on a LD (What do you think?)
Reply #19

I used this guy based on his user reviews to inspect an RV in the Orange county area.
RV Inspection Sothern California
He provides a basic checklist with photos and comments on questionable items and talks to you before and after.  It was worth it to me in deciding whether to move on or go see it.

Rich
What does he charge for an inspection? Does it include the chassis or just the coach.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze

Re: Need opinion on a LD (What do you think?)
Reply #20

"Rot can also exist in the roof, where a vent, antenna  or the roof A/C is leaking."

That happened to me recently. During a recent rainstorm, I awoke to find the left (aft) foot area of my overcab bed soaked. My Flir 1 thermal camera showed a leak in the roof (irregular purple area in attached photo). A thermal camera is a handy way to spot fresh leaks, because evaporating water is always cooler than dry wood.

So I used my MultiMaster oscillating tool to cut away a couple square feet of the ceiling in the area shown to be damp. This revealing a dripping mass of sodden fiberglass insulation.

Once I'd cleared that away, I could see that the leak originated in the corner near the triangular steel gusset plate that reinforces the roll bar. I peeled away the carpeting covering the gusset and saw several cables coming into that area. There was a fair amount of damage to the wood, and it was obvious that this was not a recent leak. Fortunately the structural integrity of the beams didn't seem to be seriously compromised, as shown by poking in various places with an awl. And the fact that the damaged rafter was sistered to a one-inch steel roll bar gave me confidence that my overcab was in no immediate danger of collapsing.

Going up on the roof, I saw that the old FM antenna was located in that area, which immediately made me suspicious. The FM and CB antennas had been struck by lightning six years ago, and the old antenna mount had been unused since then--covered by a blob of sealant. Unfortunately, the sealant didn't cover the entire area, and upon inspection, it turned out that the exposed factory sealant was not only cracked but literally full of holes.

Cutting off the antenna mount flush with the roof using the MultiMaster revealed that the lightning had actually burned holes in the aluminum roof. Between that and the damaged sealant, water had been leaking into the roof, probably since the lightning strike. Pouring water onto the area demonstrated that this was indeed the entry point--it came right through into the ceiling below.

I chiseled away a 3" circle of aluminum roof around the hole that the antenna cable used to enter the coach. Underneath I found an area of blackened wood--probably charred by lightning and then rotted by water.

I made a temporary patch from aluminum flashing, and secured it with a generous amount of Bed-It butyl tape. (This brand was recommended by a boater friend, who says it holds up much better than other brands.) To ensure good adhesion, I heated both the roof area and the patch with a hair dryer before and after applying it.

Subsequent rains showed no further leakage, so I'm pretty sure I took care of the problem. I plan to replace the temporary patch with something more substantial once I get back to drier climes. And I have yet to cover up that hole in the ceiling--I plan on letting it dry out thoroughly for a month or so.

It had taken me six years to discover this potentially serious leak because I normally camp in the dry Southwest. I learned from this experience that I should have carefully inspected all seals on my roof--cable entries, vents, solar panel mounts, etc.--to make sure none were compromised.

As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"

Re: Need opinion on a LD (What do you think?)
Reply #21
An inspector best friend is an ice pick.
If an area feels soft to the hand, gently push the ice pick into it.  If it easily  goes into the wood, there's likely rot.
Make sure the owner knows what you are doing and is OK with it.

...Roof sealing is more involved but many here have done it themselves.
I have posted multiple articles on how to do this. Search is your friend.

Larry

Thank you Larry.  That is a great checklist!  I'll keep that with me. I was worried about having someone else inspect it without me having some basic understanding of where to look for rot and why.  It's easy to see why it's so important to have a good inspection.  I was considering buying a LD sight unseen, but I think not.  I know folks do it on ebay, but they probably know how to work on them.

If I do manage to find a watertight LD without rot or other water damage, how often do the end caps, storage areas, holding tanks, rear tire compartment, etc. need to be checked?  This seems like it should be an annual thing because I think the damage caused by water intrusion can be far more expensive than paying for good health check-ups.

Thank you.

Mimi
Save a life.
Adopting a pet is the closest a human
will ever come to choosing a relative.

hsus.org  aspca.org
1992 Lazy Daze T/K  23.5' Ford 460 c.i.d./7.6 liter V8 engine, electronic fuel injection, E4OD 4-speed auto transmission
Full time 6/2017

Re: Need opinion on a LD (What do you think?)
Reply #22
As usual great advice from Larry.

This is the reason we have audible water leak detectors by the water pump and under the sink. Not too long ago our water pump failed and we got the warning before damage occurred. This reminds me we need to check the batteries in them.

Jim

That's the first I've heard of audible water leak detectors!  What a great idea!  Are they easy to install?  What brand are you using?  I love this idea! Thank you Jim and Larry!

Mimi
Save a life.
Adopting a pet is the closest a human
will ever come to choosing a relative.

hsus.org  aspca.org
1992 Lazy Daze T/K  23.5' Ford 460 c.i.d./7.6 liter V8 engine, electronic fuel injection, E4OD 4-speed auto transmission
Full time 6/2017

Re: Need opinion on a LD (What do you think?)
Reply #23
Finding rot is a challenge sometimes for anyone not specifically looking for it. Make sure your inspector is aware of the LD construction and weaknesses. Like the corner end caps, roof seams, bathroom window. 
I will do that. I'm just wondering how would I know if the inspector knew about LD construction and if he/she had any experience inspecting them?  Are there inspectors certified in inspecting certain RV's like LD?

Thanks...

Mimi
Save a life.
Adopting a pet is the closest a human
will ever come to choosing a relative.

hsus.org  aspca.org
1992 Lazy Daze T/K  23.5' Ford 460 c.i.d./7.6 liter V8 engine, electronic fuel injection, E4OD 4-speed auto transmission
Full time 6/2017

Re: Need opinion on a LD (What do you think?)
Reply #24
Just offering as one reason the advertised date may not match date on title once you get that far.

Definitely agree with Larry it's mostly about condition and one year diff isn't going to factor in too much other than potentially causing it to fall outside your search range or if financing since bank will value it based on the titled year.

I used this guy based on his user reviews to inspect an RV in the Orange county area.
RV Inspection Sothern California

 He provides a basic checklist with photos and comments on questionable items and talks to you before and after.  It was worth it to me in deciding whether to move on or go see it.

Rich
Thank you Rich!  That's really helpful.  If you don't mind saying, how much do inspections run?  Where did you find the reviews for this inspection company?

Thanks...

Mimi
Save a life.
Adopting a pet is the closest a human
will ever come to choosing a relative.

hsus.org  aspca.org
1992 Lazy Daze T/K  23.5' Ford 460 c.i.d./7.6 liter V8 engine, electronic fuel injection, E4OD 4-speed auto transmission
Full time 6/2017