Lost dump valve assembly November 07, 2016, 01:50:46 pm I saw a recent thread asking about the vulnerability of the dump valve assemblies on the 27 MB, and now I too have a question about that. I’m a brand new RVer and have owned my new 27 MB for less than 2 wks. On my first full day of ownership, driving it from the mothership back to my home in Colorado, I lost the black dump valve assembly, though I didn’t realize it till I got home later that night. I honestly don’t know if it just fell off or if something in the road bounced up and knocked it off. The mothership has sent me the two piece assembly to replace what’s missing. I’m trying to decide whether to install it myself or take it somewhere. Regardless, I’m wondering what actually secures it in place. The two worm gear clamps on the mouth of the black tank are still there. But it seems there must be more than that to secure it in place. Vince at LD mentioned the little wood block, which I see, and a bracket attached to the wood block, which I’m not sure what he’s talking about. Looking at the gray side doesn’t help; it’s much longer and has a couple of nice sturdy brackets. I would so appreciate any info (or pictures!!) any of you could provide about routing and securing this little black assembly.
Re: Lost dump valve assembly Reply #1 – November 07, 2016, 03:52:15 pm Welcome Dee. Congratulations on you new MB! My guess is that someone didn't attach something correctly at the factory. I would consider it very unlikely to have a problem like that otherwise.If you're unsure about what to do, I'd call something like a mobile RV repair person who should be able to fix you up very quickly. I'd have the repair person talk to the factory, and I'd expect the factory to pick up the tab. The repair person will be thrilled to get an hour of labor for such an easy job, particularly with such clean parts. It's an easy fix (I think), but there's no reason for you to have to mess with it on a brand new RV. I'm almost positive it's a factory mistake and not some sort of road hazard or bad luck.Rich'03 MB in NC 1 Likes
Re: Lost dump valve assembly Reply #2 – November 07, 2016, 04:40:15 pm Quote from: rich - November 07, 2016, 03:52:15 pmWelcome Dee. Congratulations on you new MB! My guess is that someone didn't attach something correctly at the factory. I would consider it very unlikely to have a problem like that otherwise.If you're unsure about what to do, I'd call something like a mobile RV repair person who should be able to fix you up very quickly. I'd have the repair person talk to the factory, and I'd expect the factory to pick up the tab. The repair person will be thrilled to get an hour of labor for such an easy job, particularly with such clean parts. It's an easy fix (I think), but there's no reason for you to have to mess with it on a brand new RV. I'm almost positive it's a factory mistake and not some sort of road hazard or bad luck.Rich'03 MB in NCIf indeed this is a brand new LD and it appears that the valve assembly just fell off rather than being knocked off by impact, I'd certainly send these photos (and maybe more) to Todd and confirm that LD will pay for the repair.Chris 2 Likes
Re: Lost dump valve assembly Reply #3 – November 07, 2016, 05:05:12 pm Quote from: Chris Horst - November 07, 2016, 04:40:15 pmIf indeed this is a brand new LD and it appears that the valve assembly just fell off rather than being knocked off by impact, I'd certainly send these photos (and maybe more) to Todd and confirm that LD will pay for the repair.ChrisI agree. As Chris and Rich indicated, it seems most likely that somebody dropped the ball and that the gate valve assembly was not installed/secured correctly at the factory; the thing probably just fell off from normal "road shake". If this is indeed the case (I have no idea how you'd "prove" it), the factory should pay for the repair. If you aren't sure of exactly which parts are missing or are not confident that you can repair/replace the gate valve so that it's secure and leak-free, you might want to call an RV shop and have them do the job; if it's compatible with the shop's policies, you might want to request to watch and take photos of the repair. You don't say where in Colorado you are, but there are CO members on this board who might be able to offer shop suggestions. (JMHO, but I would avoid Camping World!) Please post the outcome and include photos of the re-assembly/repair if you're able to do so. If indeed the issue was one of sloppy workmanship - properly installed gate valve assemblies don't just drop off without cause - LD should be embarrassed and be eager to avoid negative publicity by covering the costs of the repair. I hope you get this resolved satisfactorily, and fast!As ever, YMMV.Joan
Re: Lost dump valve assembly Reply #4 – November 07, 2016, 05:11:46 pm P.S. to Dee: You might also want to check the bolt tightness on (the straps of) your black and grey holding tanks; if the gate valve assembly wasn't attached properly, it's possible (to me) that the tank bolts weren't tightened, either. Losing a gate valve assembly is minor compared to losing a tank!
Re: Lost dump valve assembly Reply #5 – November 07, 2016, 06:53:57 pm You don't say where in Colorado you are, but there are CO members on this board who might be able to offer shop suggestions. (JMHO, but I would avoid Camping World!) Dee, I live in Denver and might be able to give you some repair facilities suggestions.Chris
Re: Lost dump valve assembly Reply #6 – November 07, 2016, 09:49:28 pm dee, I live in Elizabeth Colorado and have used rv-medic, Fred Masching, 719-216-6476 or 719-646-7064. he is good and does house calls. bob dietrich 1 Likes
Re: Lost dump valve assembly Reply #7 – November 09, 2016, 05:37:45 am Dee-By the description and pictures I'm thinking that the valve was attached (or supposed to be) to the wooden block using the missing bracket. The factory may not have thought to send you a bracket; I'd call and ask for one. Also, if they could send a picture of the installation on another new MB, that should help get things where and how they're intended to be.I ran over a road hazard in Texas with our 1997/8 MB and the pipe dislodged, but did not come free. In fact, I didn't notice the pipe/valve was out of place until 1,000 miles later. There was no bracket to support the valve; I added one afterwards.There doesn't appear to be evidence of it in your pictures, but on our MB the pipe end was lightly covered with polyurethane caulk and then slip-fit into the tank collar. A single stainless band clamp went around the collar. I believe it was intended then (and now) that the pipe and tank not be cemented together in any permanent way (the caulk, as strong as it is, is still not a cement). The pipe and the valve were cemented together. Not cementing the pipe to the tank protects the tank collar from failure. The tank is harder to fix than the pipe and valve.I used the Loctite PL S40 caulk, as recommended by the factory (four years ago) for general LD use, on the pipe-collar connection.Mark H
Re: Lost dump valve assembly Reply #8 – November 09, 2016, 11:32:43 pm Thank you all for your thoughts on what may have happened to my dump valve assembly and how best to get it fixed.Quote from: JCT - November 07, 2016, 05:05:12 pmAs Chris and Rich indicated, it seems most likely that somebody dropped the ball and that the gate valve assembly was not installed/secured correctly at the factory; the thing probably just fell off from normal "road shake". If this is indeed the case (I have no idea how you'd "prove" it), the factory should pay for the repair. Indeed, I too speculated that it had just fallen off. The day after it happened, I emailed Todd the leftmost picture in my original post and asked “Could it have fallen off?” His initial reply was “it's highly unlikely it just fell off”. He and Vince looked at the pic together and said “it had to get hit by something.” I wasn't totally convinced (but like Joan said, how do you prove it?), but they were very gracious in quickly sending me the two parts pictured above (and a bill for $52). It was after I had parts-in-hand and had crawled under trying to figure out how to install them that I posted my original message here. I was hoping to avoid calling Vince back in my ignorance, being a little intimidated of him because of some postings I've read about other people's experiences with him. But yesterday I finally bit the bullet and emailed Todd/Vince the additional middle picture above and basically said, “OK, Vince, you mentioned a bracket. Can you tell if it's there?”Quote from: l1v3fr33ord13 - November 09, 2016, 05:37:45 amThe factory may not have thought to send you a bracket; I'd call and ask for one. Also, if they could send a picture of the installation on another new MB, that should help get things where and how they're intended to be.You, Mark, hit the nail on the head. After I emailed them the 2nd pic, they sent me 3 pics of what the assembly and bracket would have looked like before the mishap and Vince apologized for not noticing I also needed the bracket. It's two of those pics I've attached to this message.Quote from: l1v3fr33ord13 - November 09, 2016, 05:37:45 am...on our MB the pipe end was lightly covered with polyurethane caulk and then slip-fit into the tank collar. A single stainless band clamp went around the collar. I believe it was intended then (and now) that the pipe and tank not be cemented together in any permanent way (the caulk, as strong as it is, is still not a cement). The pipe and the valve were cemented together.Mark, you're spot-on again. I asked Vince about gluing, sealing, etc. He said the tank side is not glued but the valve side is. They didn't send the valve and pipe to me glued because it has to be fitted to the right length, which can vary a little. The tank collar now has two band clamps (not just the one you mention, Mark) whose screws are supposed to be 180 degrees apart to secure the pipe after slipping it in. Vince said I could then caulk it if desired; they used to but don't anymore.So, the remaining issue is attaching the bracket. At the factory it was attached to the skirt with a rivet, and now there's a little hole and damage around where the rivet had been. (It's the missing riveted bracket that makes me concede it must have been hit and didn't just fall off.) Vince suggested maybe attaching the other end of the valve plate (i.e., the rearward rather than forward end) to the skirt by drilling a little hole and using a bolt. Frankly, I hate the thought of doing that and I don't want “just anyone“ else drilling a hole in my baby either. So, while I wait on the bracket to arrive I'll weigh my options—Bob's RV medic, a Denver area facility suggested by Chris, or ___. The other option is to just do without my black tank till I meander my way back to Montclair; Vince said he'd have me in and out in no time... Or, maybe this is a sign I should switch to a composting toilet and just forget about the black tank.Bob, we must be practically neighbors, with you in Elizabeth and me in Franktown. Thanks for the repair guy suggestion. And you too, Chris. And for the negative Camping World recommendation, Joan.
Re: Lost dump valve assembly Reply #9 – November 10, 2016, 09:17:44 am I was hoping that a MB owner would offer suggestions and/or photos of the black tank valve assembly; the set-ups do vary enough that one needs attachment information that's model-specific. Glad that Mark cleared up the "how is this thing put together?" mysteries! There's no way to know definitively if the assembly fell off due to poor installation or if it was whacked on something, but the damage around the previously-riveted spot does suggest that the valve did get hit or snagged and was torn off. It's not relevant at this point, of course; you have the parts and a rough "schematic" of how it goes together, and I hope the service guy that Chris suggested can repair/replace it. (As an aside, you might want to read past threads on this board on "composting toilets" before deciding to dump the black tank [Sorry; can't help myself!]!)Good luck, and do post a follow-up when everything is back together and working again. Joan
Re: Lost dump valve assembly Reply #10 – November 10, 2016, 10:01:30 am Quote from: l1v3fr33ord13 - November 09, 2016, 05:37:45 amThere was no bracket to support the valve; I added one afterwards.On further reflection, Mark, I'm curious what sort of bracket you added and if it might be sturdier than a little something riveted to the skirt.
Re: Lost dump valve assembly Reply #11 – November 10, 2016, 10:44:22 pm Dee-I happened to post a picture of the bracket (here's the link), in response to a similar problem reported by an LD owner a few months ago. Sadly, it's the only picture I have of that repair, which means I made it in a (relative) hurry, because I generally take too many pictures of these "projects."Anyway, the bracket was a piece of strap aluminum, bent to fit inside the skirt and shaped somewhat like an "L" with the bottom leg bent upwards at a less than 90 degree angle from the vertical leg. The three stainless-steel screws and washers you see in the picture hold the bracket to the skirt. I then put a large stainless-steel band clamp around the bottom leg and the valve collar (the input side of the valve). Tightening the clamp fastened the valve and the bracket together, stabilizing the former, which- since it came from the factory- had pretty much been hanging out in mid-air, cantilevered off the blank tank via the elbow.Judging by what I see in the new pictures of the bracket for your 2017, I suggest this for the bracket repair: Make a backing plate of 1/8" thick by 3/4" or 1" wide aluminum. Attach it to the inside bottom "lip" of the skirt (that is, on top of the "lip," not underneath it); you can use rivets for this, although stainless-steel machine screws and nylon-insert locknuts would work, too. Now, you can use the factory's bracket, or you can make your own out of 1/16" aluminum, with a longer or wider leg that bears against the skirt (that is, one with a place for a second hole). Drill upward through the existing bracket hole in the skirt, and the second hole, if you have made a longer/wider bracket, until you have matching holes in the backing plate. Put machine screws through the hole(s) and secure with nylon-insert locknut(s). What you've just done is strengthen the lower skirt "lip" and spread out any potential loads, instead of having the bracket only supported by one rivet and the fiberglass of the skirt. Anyway, that's how I'd make the repair.The nice part about bending and drilling aluminum is that it's something easily done by us "DIYers," using hand tools.While you're at it, you may find that the bolts and nuts used in the four corners of the valve are plain steel. I replace plain steel wherever I find it on the outside of my coaches and house with stainless. Someday that valve will have to be rebuilt or replaced, and you'll appreciate not having the bolts rusted. Similarly, if that new Valterra valve has a plastic handle, you may want to replace it with a metal one. Finally, make sure you apply a little lubricant to the valve seals after installation.I know, too much guidance. All the best on your repair.Mark H
Re: Lost dump valve assembly Reply #12 – November 10, 2016, 11:00:31 pm IMO, not too much guidance at all! ;-)I agree with changing out the plastic handles with aluminum; the metal handles are simple screw-on replacements, very inexpensive, and less prone to breaking than the plastic.Joan
Re: Lost dump valve assembly Reply #13 – November 12, 2016, 12:25:07 am Quote from: l1v3fr33ord13 - November 10, 2016, 10:44:22 pm...I suggest this for the bracket repair: Make a backing plate of 1/8" thick by 3/4" or 1" wide aluminum... What you've just done is strengthen the lower skirt "lip" and spread out any potential loads, instead of having the bracket only supported by one rivet and the fiberglass of the skirt. Mark, a backing plate...of course--that's the answer! (Why didn't the factory think of that?) That will make the installation better than new. Thank you for describing the suggested repair in such detail. It's beyond what I want to bite off myself, but I've got Bob's recommendation of RV Medic, and perhaps Chris or some other Denver or Colorado Springs area member will chime in with another recommendation of someone who could implement your fix as well. Thanks again, Mark!
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