No spark to water heater August 23, 2016, 03:19:04 pm Yesterday, the water heater decided not to light. No juice to the igniter. I can manually light it.I have checked the fuses in the power box and the one of the WH control board.There is continuity through the ECO.Any suggestions of other things to check?
Re: No spark to water heater Reply #1 – August 23, 2016, 03:45:03 pm Quote from: Don Malpas - August 23, 2016, 03:19:04 pmYesterday, the water heater decided not to light. No juice to the igniter. I can manually light it.I have checked the fuses in the power box and the one of the WH control board.There is continuity through the ECO.Any suggestions of other things to check?If you haven't already tried pull the high voltage lead of and on the board. Did the trick for me once.....
Re: No spark to water heater Reply #2 – August 23, 2016, 04:23:56 pm Don,Takes me back to the "Mister Wizard" episode I posted last week. He mentioned that one way to create electricity was with the piezo.While in Zion a few weeks back I had trouble lighting the right rear burner on my stove top. After realigning the piezo, the burner worked flawlessly. Not sure if this helps. Can you hear the piezo "clicking"? Not certain if it is even audible from inside the coach. I know the fridges is loud enough to hear. I'll check my manual and see what I can find. Good luck,Kent
Re: No spark to water heater Reply #3 – August 23, 2016, 04:31:55 pm Don,A quick check of the manual states that if the vent tube becomes blocked (spider webs etc.) then the wire to the Thermal Cutoff switch may have been ruined and thereby triggering a safety that will not allow 12 volt current to ignite the burner.This is a paraphrase of course. If allowable, I can post the paragraph from the manual or I can send it via a PM if you would like.Kent
Re: No spark to water heater Reply #4 – August 23, 2016, 07:13:42 pm Quote from: Don Malpas - August 23, 2016, 03:19:04 pmYesterday, the water heater decided not to light. No juice to the igniter. I can manually light it.I have checked the fuses in the power box and the one of the WH control board.There is continuity through the ECO.Any suggestions of other things to check?Just to make sure connections are good, pull all the wires on the control board, clean them with contact cleaner, reattach wires and see if that makes any difference. If it doesn't, you will have done some preventive maintenance. Let us know what you find out, please.Chris
Re: No spark to water heater Reply #5 – August 23, 2016, 10:00:36 pm No spider webs. The unit has been in continuous use for four months. This is no garage queen.Already pulled and cleaned all the wire connections.No clicking, so no spark. The lead from the control board to the ignitor reads 50V AC. An AC reading surprises me. No reading on the DC scale. The gap on the ignitor is about 1/4 inch, where is it's always been. Maybe there is a break in the ignitor. I may take it out and see if I get a reading on the tip.I fear I may have to have it serviced. And that’s a real fear, as most RV techs know less than I do. I am guessing it’s the control board.
Re: No spark to water heater Reply #6 – August 23, 2016, 10:09:42 pm Don, I can say from experience, if you decide to replace the control board, it is a very easy upgrade to the Dinosaur. I had a similar failure on mine, and after all the research I could garner here, rolled the dice on replacing it. Here are a couple of picks.
Re: No spark to water heater Reply #7 – August 23, 2016, 10:27:55 pm Besides checking the ECO switch and thermal link, the thermostat can be bad.Have you checked it or jumpered its contacts?If bad, consider the adjustable model.If the board is bad, the Dino board is the way to go.Simple to install.Larry
Re: No spark to water heater Reply #8 – August 24, 2016, 01:51:06 pm Expanded remarks1) I get an AC reading of 55volts from the terminal on the board that leads to the ignitor. I get a reading of 45 volts on the ignitor. Would like for someone to check their reading. I am surprised at it being AC. No clicking, no spark.2) The thermostat seems to be OK. Continuity across the terminals AND it shuts off when the temp is reached. It’s an adjustable one. However, three days before it quit lighting the temp went from the normal 115 to 145. I turned it down and it cut off. I returned it to the usual setting and it cut off at 120 as normal.2b) At the same time the temp went up, the flame started making an irregular "gurgling" sound. It would return to normal in seconds. I checked the air/fuel adjustment and it was in it's usual place. I moved it in both directions, but that made it worse. I cleaned the outside of the fuel nozzle. Can't seem to break it free to clean the inside with solvent.3) Board replacement. The Dinosaur web site is not helpful to me in determining what board to order. There is no correlation to Atwood models. Paul, the pictures of your old board are close to mine, but not dead on. The mounting holes are different and the placement of the “thingie†above the hot led is different. You may be able to tell in the picture that my “thingie†has heat discoloration. Skeptical of that.Amazon shows both a large and small. Amazon.com: Dinosaur Electronics (UIB S) Small Universal Ignitor Board:...Looks like I need the UIB S per the Dinosaur site. The dimensions are not correct, but the Mfg numbers match.Mark 50N-12-3-3-7-10-0-E23062Atwood part # 93253 AC/Gas\ UIB S As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: No spark to water heater Reply #9 – August 24, 2016, 03:22:23 pm A few years ago I called Dinosaur to figure out which replacement board I needed for the refrigerator. They were willing to tell me but went above and beyond by suggesting I grab a multimeter while they guided me through troubleshooting to make sure the original board was at fault. Ten minutes later we were both confident about what I needed. Great customer service! Give them a call and you might be just as lucky. I was in a hurry and ordered the replacement from a seller on Amazon with fast shipping.Rich'03 MB in NC 1 Likes
Re: No spark to water heater Reply #10 – August 24, 2016, 04:51:16 pm Here are some steps to try.1. Thermostat test - When you flip the switch to turn the water heater on, do you get a green immediately, or do you get a red and green at first? If you get an immediate green, the thermostat is trying to tell the board that it is already at temperature, meaning its contacts are open. Disconnect the thermostat and connect a jumper between the two wires leading to the thermostat. That simulates a cold thermostat. If the heater starts, you found the problem. If you get a red and green indication, the thermostat is calling for heat.2. Thermal cutoff - There is a thermal cutoff circuit which, if overheated, disconnects power. It is a 3" section of device with male and female spade connectors and (on mine) a clear plastic tube covering what looks like a resistor or diode. You can check it by disconnecting it and checking for continuity or by jumper connection across it. DO NOT RUN THE HEATER THAT WAY, other than a check to see if it lights. If it reads an open circuit, or if the heater lights when you bypass it, you need a new thermal cutoff.3. Failed ignitor - These can fail with a partial or full short or an open fault. With a partial short, such as the ceramic becoming wet, the burner will kick on, run for a few seconds, then shut off when the ignitor fails to send the proper voltage signal back to the board. With a full short or an open circuit, you will not get a tic - tic - tic sound as the burner is trying to light. Best way to test that is to have the compartment open and have Dorothy flick the switch on as you stand outside and listen. Reverse the positions if her ears are better than yours. If the light is low, you should be able to see a blue spark jump that 1/4" space with each tic sound.4. OK, you cleaned the contacts. You bypassed the thermostat You bypassed the thermal cutoff. You have no indication that the ignitor is bad. That leaves the board. As others said, a dinosaur board is easy to install. Mine has worked reliably for almost 8 years.Ken F in WY
Re: No spark to water heater Reply #11 – August 24, 2016, 09:00:48 pm 1. Thermostat test - OK, this may be part of it. I guess in all the times I have cut it on over nine years, it was initially red/green and went to green after lighting. Frankly can not remember. Now, it starts green, tries to light three times and then goes red/green. I jumpered it and it started as red/green, but would not light. If I am reading your post right the thermostat needs replacing. But, there is still the no spark problem.2. Thermal cutoff - It tests OK for continuity and will turn the gas off if disconnected while lit. This seems OK. I have a spare.3. Failed ignitor - No tick, no spark.I am still stuck on why there is no spark when there is voltage on the tip of the ignitor. It’s a constant voltage, not pulsing as I would expect.
Re: No spark to water heater Reply #12 – August 25, 2016, 03:20:05 am Don, this is off the top of my head, but in order to get a decent spark you need several thousand volts. From your description, your board is not putting out anywhere near that much. If you've ruled out a bad connection, then most likely the problem is the board. As you figured out, Dinosaur's UIB-S is the replacement you want.Be sure to order a cover along with it--that's a separate item. And you will need to drill mounting holes in the water heater's face, as the holes on the Dinosaur board are in different locations than those of the original Atwood board. (It is after all, a "universal" board, so although electrically compatible, it can't physically fit every possible appliance.) I strongly recommend against drilling a hole for the lower lefthand corner of the board. The tank is quite close to the outer surface there, and it's way too easy to drill through into the tank. I made this mistake once, and the result was that I had to do an emergency water heater replacement.If you have questions about any of this, I echo the recommendation to talk to Dinosaur's techs on the phone. They are very helpful when troubleshooting. (And their boards are top-quality.)
Re: No spark to water heater Reply #13 – August 25, 2016, 12:10:08 pm Thanks Andy. Of course, now that you say it, more volts would be necessary to spark.The cover comes with a mounting plate that allows the original two holes to be used. [The board screws to the plate and the plate to the wall. I think this is shown in some pictures posted above] I was not going to risk punching new holes.The parts are on order and I will pick them up before the end of this month. Until then, we are really hard ship camping. I go out with the fire stick, lit it, stick in the hole and tell Dorothy "Contact".Thanks to all for helping me get through this and avoid an RV tech who would probably want to replace the whole unit.While I was typing this Dorothy announced that this will be our 1600th night in KoKo. No big deal for FT's, but I guess we are 1% percenters of the rest of RV users. 3 Likes
Re: No spark to water heater Reply #14 – August 25, 2016, 11:10:54 pm 1600 nights, man that is impressive..Congratulations!
Re: No spark to water heater Reply #15 – August 26, 2016, 10:46:52 am Going WAY off topic here Gary. A neighbor could never understand why we traveled. He said things like "you have a nice home, why would you go off in RV".
Re: No spark to water heater Reply #16 – August 26, 2016, 05:47:31 pm Quote from: Garry Foster - August 25, 2016, 11:10:54 pm1600 nights, man that is impressive..Congratulations! Wow, that's 4.38 years!
Re: No spark to water heater Reply #17 – August 27, 2016, 12:38:29 pm Hmm, Andy's response may be misleading. When the system is sending a spark, it definitely needs several thousand volts, but it is not sending that voltage all the time. The ignitor does double duty. It sends a spark across that 1/4" gap to light the flame, but when not sending that spark, it has a much lower voltage that is used to measure resistance across the gap. That resistance is different in air than in a flame, and that tells the board if there is a flame present. Don was measuring voltage of the system at rest. I know very few multimeters that can read the microsecond pulse of voltage that generates the spark. I know my Fluke multimeter cannot read a short pulse. (Side note - when I put in a Dinosaur board, the holes on mine lined up. I didn't have to do any drilling. As he said, by all means get the cover as well.)Ken F in WY
Re: No spark to water heater Reply #18 – September 06, 2016, 10:50:33 am It was the board. I first replaced the ignitor just to see if that might be it. Dinosaur board was an easy install. My old board was attached with two screws. The new board uses four screws at each corner. They sell an adaptor plate so you don't have to drill new holes - into perhaps the tank. Plug in the power cord and the wire to the ignitor and that's it.Cost $100, board plus adaptor plate.Only rub is that Amazon lost the first shipment in transit. They then offered free one-day shipping on the replacement order. One day now means from Friday morning to Monday afternoon. Good thing we had a place to hang out over the holiday weekend. Many thanks to all that contributed to resolving this issue. 3 Likes
Re: No spark to water heater Reply #19 – September 06, 2016, 01:11:29 pm It's always a great feeling when one can sort out these types of problems! And in the course of sorting this one out, you've helped me with some WH education.
Re: No spark to water heater Reply #20 – September 06, 2016, 11:22:34 pm Kudos for a job well done. With that I bookmarked your journey. Should be while before I need to revisit this lesson. Sorry you had to go through this ordeal, but thanks to you and everyone who guided your progress this has truly been a "grand adventure".Time for a hot shower. Kent
Re: No spark to water heater Reply #21 – September 07, 2016, 11:50:09 am Good point, Ken--I should have noted that!
Re: No spark to water heater Reply #22 – October 28, 2016, 01:25:39 pm Well, now it's my turn: I have a water heater problem of my own.Symptoms: when switched on, green light, but no red. No ticking from the ignitor. No status light on the Dinosaur controller board. Open-circuit voltage at the edge connector on the board: maximum of a hundred millivolts or so (varies) between any two contacts. Pretty clearly the board isn't getting the 12 V power it needs.What I've done: cleaned all contacts with Cramolin (old name for DeoxIT). Tested thermostat, ECO (emergency cut off) and thermal cutoff--all had good continuity. Checked switch in stove hood panel; appears good (has 13 V on input side; good continuity when switched on).It seems as if the 12 V power that should be coming from the panel switch (via a brown wire) to the water heater controller board isn't getting there. But how to trace that wire, and where/how it could be broken, have me stymied. Any ideas? I'm gettin' tired of showering with water heated in the teakettle!
Re: No spark to water heater Reply #23 – October 28, 2016, 01:40:56 pm My in-house engineer sez:"Try completely bypassing the electrical power circuitry with two wires from another known good source of 12-volt power. Solder them onto the board, if you have to, and see if it works. If it does, then you know where the problem is - and - you have a working hot water heater, and can address the remedy at your leisure." Virtual hugs, Judie•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~• Quote from: Andy Baird - October 28, 2016, 01:25:39 pmWell, now it's my turn: I have a water heater problem of my own.Symptoms: when switched on, green light, but no red. No ticking from the ignitor. No status light on the Dinosaur controller board. Open-circuit voltage at the edge connector on the board: maximum of a hundred millivolts or so (varies) between any two contacts. Pretty clearly the board isn't getting the 12 V power it needs.What I've done: cleaned all contacts with Cramolin (old name for DeoxIT). Tested thermostat, ECO (emergency cut off) and thermal cutoff--all had good continuity. Checked switch in stove hood panel; appears good (has 13 V on input side; good continuity when switched on).It seems as if the 12 V power that should be coming from the panel switch (via a brown wire) to the water heater controller board isn't getting there. But how to trace that wire, and where/how it could be broken, have me stymied. Any ideas? I'm gettin' tired of showering with water heated in the teakettle!
Re: No spark to water heater Reply #24 – October 28, 2016, 02:37:19 pm Andy:Do you still have the variable temperature thermostat on your water heater? When I installed the variable temp tstat on my rig a few years ago, I noticed that the positioning of the tstat in the holder could interrupt the 12V flow to the Dinosaur board. I think that the back of the tstat contacts the tank, and if that contact isn't right the circuit isn't complete. Try turning the tstat a bit (the whole tstat, not just the temperature change indicator). Moving it may solve your problem.Kevin Lindsay 2000 LD 30' IB
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