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Topic: Fogged Windows/Window Replacement (Read 3355 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Fogged Windows
Reply #26 –
The video and the website mention only the replacement of "side" windows, but I will call this  company tomorrow and see what, if any, options there are for replacing the large back window in the TK or MB.

I would much rather have the laminated safety glass in place of the "air gap" sandwich! I will post whatever I find out, and, if others call, do post what you find out!
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Fogged Windows
Reply #27 –
Quote from: JCT  - 
The video and the website mention only the replacement of "side" windows, but I will call this  company tomorrow and see what, if any, options there are for replacing the large back window in the TK or MB.

I would much rather have the laminated safety glass in place of the "air gap" sandwich! I will post whatever I find out, and, if others call, do post what you find out!

I look forward to what you find out. When I spoke with them several months ago they were hoping to have dark glass but even then I have no idea if it would come close to matching the darkness of the glass that we have in the LD. They have a location in Phoenix and we were planning on checking them when we get there in a little over a month.

Jim
Re: Fogged Windows
Reply #28 –
I called RV Glass Experts and gave the person the fogged window information for my TK, including asking about their website ad that they replaced "side windows"; she said that "back windows" are considered "side windows", too; OK.  I asked whether they could replace the window, and, if so, at which facility and for how much? She looked up Lazy Daze and answered that the Coburg, Oregon location could replace the (rear window) fogged "air gap" glass with laminated safety glass for $535.00, "start to finish". (She did not give a price for the Phoenix, AZ, location, but I am pretty sure that Oregon would be less expensive due to no sales tax.) This is roughly half of the LD factory replacement price.

RV Glass Experts does not replace the window frame, just the glass with 7/16" laminated safety glass.  (AFAIK, the factory removes the whole window unit and fits a new air gap window in its place.)  I don't know if the glass is tinted; I forgot to ask that! I wish I'd known this information when I was in Oregon in August!  :( 

I inquired only about replacing the large rear window of the TK; the window in an MB is the same, so the same information and costs would apply.

Considering the options.....

2003 TK has a new home
Re: Fogged Windows
Reply #29 –
RV Fog Doctor - first post in this thread - only cleans, does not replace the window, unless it's etched.
Not sure I see a benefit of safety glass for this use. Of course, the Hehr windows could use safety glass for all I know.
Definitely would want the same tint. 
What sealing method does RV Glass Experts use?
Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy
 
Re: Fogged Windows
Reply #30 –
I used the Fog Dr on my '06 MB. Would I recommend them...without a doubt. Was I happy with the outcome....without a doubt. would I do it with a LD....I'd have to think about it.

My LD had been assembled with sealant like 3M 5200 everywhere. Hinges, screws AND windows. I ( and they) thought they were gonna tear up the window getting it out. They did succeed, with a few wrinkles in the frame. They did their best, with very good results, to straighten the frame, but it took them ALL day. We went with intention of having the back window, 2 rear sides, and the door window on the MB. We, and they, decided after the experience with the back window ( I was very happy with the end results ) that we would not attempt the rest of the project.
20 + MH's since 1977 incl...
Past
FMC, 2x GMC's, Foretravel, 2x LD
Present
1996 LD RB under restoration, my project to keep me off the streets.
Re: Fogged Windows
Reply #31 –
Quote from: riverrd  - 
I used the Fog Dr on my '06 MB. Would I recommend them...without a doubt. Was I happy with the outcome....without a doubt. would I do it with a LD....I'd have to think about it.

My LD had been assembled with sealant like 3M 5200 everywhere. Hinges, screws AND windows. I ( and they) thought they were gonna tear up the window getting it out. They did succeed, with a few wrinkles in the frame. They did their best, with very good results, to straighten the frame, but it took them ALL day. We went with intention of having the back window, 2 rear sides, and the door window on the MB. We, and they, decided after the experience with the back window ( I was very happy with the end results ) that we would not attempt the rest of the project.

That news is disturbing. I was under the impression that LD was sealing the windows with butyl tape.

Jim
Re: Fogged Windows
Reply #32 –
"I was under the impression that LD was sealing the windows with butyl tape."
-----
I don't know what the factory used to seal the window frames into the body in 2003, but I suspect that the sealant used at that time was the same as was used everywhere else on/in the LD, i.e., lots and lots of gobs and wads of polyurethane.  I'm sure I will find out when they replace the TK's rear window later this month. (Going with the factory-replacement option rather than the glass re-do in Oregon.)

Frankly, since the goal is to have a leak-free, unfogged window that doesn't present a view like looking through wax paper, my concern deals a lot more with what the factory uses currently to seal a window replacement and the quality of the sealant between the panes in the new window stock.

Joan
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Fogged Windows
Reply #33 –
Quote from: JCT  - 
"I was under the impression that LD was sealing the windows with butyl tape."
-----
I don't know what the factory used to seal the window frames into the body in 2003, but I suspect that the sealant used at that time was the same as was used everywhere else on/in the LD, i.e., lots and lots of gobs and wads of polyurethane.  I'm sure I will find out when they replace the TK's rear window later this month. (Going with the factory-replacement option rather than the glass re-do in Oregon.)

Frankly, since the goal is to have a leak-free, unfogged window that doesn't present a view like looking through wax paper, my concern deals a lot more with what the factory uses currently to seal a window replacement and the quality of the sealant between the panes in the new window stock.

Joan

We have an 06. In speaking with Vince he told me that they used butyl tape and that there was no need to routinely re-seal the windows. I'm guessing that they use something else on the exterior of the frame but don't know if that is true. Perhaps it's the stuff riverrd was referring to. However, that has nothing to do with the fogged windows so we still have the problem or removing and reinstalling. I hated to hear about the problems the other riverrd commented on as I don't look forward to the process given his experience.

In another thread on this topic someone commented that they had LD replace the entire window due to fogging and that window subsequently leaked. Apparently no matter who does the work there is always the risk of this happening.

Jim
Re: Fogged Windows
Reply #34 –
I just called Vince and asked what they use to seal the window frame into the "hole" when they install or replace a window; he said they use this:

Loctite PL S40 Window Door and Siding Sealant from Loctite Adhesives

He said nothing about using butyl tape.

I re-sealed all the tops and sides of all the window frames on my 2003 with 3M 5200 Fast Cure, and will do the same with the new rear window.

Joan
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Fogged Windows
Reply #35 –
Quote from: JCT  - 
I just called Vince and asked what they use to seal the window frame into the "hole" when they install or replace a window; he said they use this:

Loctite PL S40 Window Door and Siding Sealant from Loctite Adhesives

He said nothing about using butyl tape.

I re-sealed all the tops and sides of all the window frames on my 2003 with 3M 5200 Fast Cure, and will do the same with the new rear window.

Joan

Thanks for checking. Perhaps I am confusing this with something I read on the group here. I did speak with him a few months ago when he quoted the price for replacing the windows and I thought he had mentioned the butyl then as well but I must have been wrong about that recollection.

Jim
Re: Fogged Windows
Reply #36 –
"I thought he had mentioned the butyl then as well but I must have been wrong about that recollection."
-----
Not necessarily! Vince answers direct questions, but, in my experience, usually doesn't volunteer additional information, probably because he's usually running at red line and needs to get back to whatever he was called away from to answer the phone for the bazillionth time!  ;)  They may well use butyl tape used around the edges of the window frame; I'll know soon.

Joan
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Fogged Windows
Reply #37 –
Quote from: JCT  - 

  "...I'm sure I will find out when they replace the TK's rear window later this month. (Going with the factory-replacement option rather than the glass re-do in Oregon)..."


I was curious about your choice in this regard, Joan.

Many of us who live close to the Mothership may find service and repair at the factory our best option. Especially when you consider their extensive knowledge of the product.

In the "old" days, electricians would wire a home using all black wires. This was done, from what I understand, to insure that the homeowner/business owner would call them for any electrical issues or risk burning down their property by bringing someone else in to do an electrical repair. Glad those daze are gone.

Lazy Daze owners are spread across the country and while our rigs are definitely unique in many ways, repairs can be accomplished by many talented DIY'ers and RV technicians.

The factory is not always an absolute must for many repairs, although, they most liking are the most competent.

Old school craftsmanship and a friendly team of professionals. It's good to know these qualities still exist.  I wonder if management planned it that way?


Kent


2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"
Re: Fogged Windows
Reply #38 –
I'm certainly aware that the factory is not "the only game in town" when it comes to repairing an LD; very little of anything I've had done post-purchase in 2003 has taken me back to Montclair. But, in this case, factory window replacement vs. SOB company window replacement was decided for these reasons:  Montclair is a lot closer to me in the Bay Area than Coburg, OR,  it's a convenient off-the-10 freeway stop on the way to somewhere else I plan to go, and I had already made an appointment at the factory and arranged the trip timing to have two other jobs done there. If I had known about the glass place while I was in Oregon a couple of months ago, I probably would have had the place in Coburg do the job (after verifying that the tint of the replacement glass was the same or similar). That was then; this is now. Southward..... ;)

Joan
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Fogged Windows
Reply #39 –
I am curious what the Mothership is charging to replace on the large windows. I am sure their work would be better than anywhere else, but they are sure are not convenient to us. And they are experienced at removing what they put in. Thinking company x might damage something getting a window out - maybe me!

Need three big ones and the door. Arg!

Maybe they could replace the damn sink drains also!

Should have ordered a new one five years ago.
Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy
Re: Fogged Windows
Reply #40 –
Quote from: Don Malpas  - 

"...Need three big ones and the door. Arg!..."

Don,

I recall it being mentioned that the replacement cost of single pain Windows done in Oregon was around $600 and LD's replacement for double pain smoked was around $1200. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The coach door runs around $3500 or thereabouts. This I was told by Vince last March. That's the raw door, finished at the factory and installed. I learned this after I snagged a trailer hitch at U-Haul while getting propane. The repair for my blindside was about $325 (if I recall-I'm trying to forget it).

The repair? Flawless. Vince said he couldn't let me take the new LD out looking like that. Thanks Vince.

Here's a before and after shot. You'd never know it happened.

As a side note: The factory may be able to lead you to a local window repair service in your area.

Good luck with your coach

Kent
2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"
Re: Fogged Windows
Reply #41 –
$1,200 is a lot and I am cheap with a nine year old rig. I meant the window in the door, not the whole door.
Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy
Re: Fogged Windows
Reply #42 –
It might be worth calling the factory and asking Vince for the estimated costs of various window replacements; the cost to replace the large back window of the TK or MB may be different from the replacement costs of "side" windows.

Each job is different, of course, and cost-affecting "stuff" can happen during parts removal and installation.  Since my rig will be getting a new awning, side window shade, and a back window replacement, I don't know what the final tab will be.  

Choosing to have these jobs done on an "older" rig is a personal decision, of course, but this is my last rig; it gets what it (and I) need(s) to "goseedo" safely and comfortably.

As ever, YMMV.  :D
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Fogged Windows
Reply #43 –
I asked LD what the tariff would be to replace five windows.
Both side windows in the rear lounge.
The window next to the kitchen table.
The window in the door.
The small window on the drivers side in the rear.

Windows  $ 3208.00
est. Labor ( Vince )  $1350.00

$4,500 is about 10% of the value of the rig.

Update: RV Fog Doctor in Searcy, Arkansas will not work on a Lazy Daze as they know what a PIA it is to get the window out.
Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy
Re: Fogged Windows
Reply #44 –
Well, I'm real glad that I just have one to replace!  :o
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Fogged Windows
Reply #45 –
This fogged window issue is very concerning to me, so two questions:  Is this just an LD problem or do other brands have this problem as well? Do all modern-day LD's experience this issue?  ???
Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264
Re: Fogged Windows
Reply #46 –
Fogged windows are not just an "LD problem"; I've read of quite a few different types, different brands, of RVs having the same issues.

Joan
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Fogged Windows
Reply #47 –
Quote from: HiLola  - 
This fogged window issue is very concerning to me, so two questions:  Is this just an LD problem or do other brands have this problem as well? Do all modern-day LD's experience this issue?  ???

The "issue" lies in the fact that LD and other manufacturers started installing double-paned insulating glass some years ago (~2003?). LD buys the glass (already sealed), just like the other RV builders, and installs it. It's the seal between the two panes that starts to leak over time and creates the fogging. Older LDs and SOBs, which had single pane windows, don't have this issue.  -- Jon
(Former) ‘06 TK “Albatross.” And (former) Vespa 250.   Alas, no more; both are gone.😕 Great memories remain! 😄
Re: Fogged Windows
Reply #48 –
Yes, 2003 was the first year that LD installed dual pane windows; I waited to order my TK until LD put the short rig on the E-450 chassis and used double pane windows. 50% right!  :o

NB - dual pane windows used in residential and commercial construction can also be subject to fogging; the problem does not affect just RVs.

Joan
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Fogged Windows
Reply #49 –
The quest to get the windows un-fogged continues. I have been talking with Suncoast Designs in Florida about it. They quote $225 a window to clean them. They say they have done over four LD's before.

If the window is etched, they will replace it for an additional $50. They stock several tinted glasses.

I am planning to go down there after the first of the year.

Suncoast Designers, Inc.
15050 Labor Place
Hudson, FL 34667
727-868-2773

Here's a Youtube on them.
Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy