To toad or not to toad September 24, 2016, 02:16:57 pm I thought the discussion of the benefits (or not) to tow a toad would have been addressed many times in the past, but my forum search did not reveal much. For those on trips for extended periods, do most tow an alternative vehicle? Is the expense and trouble worth it? Did most already have a suitable toad already, and does anyone use alternatives like a motorcycle/scooter? Thanks, Matt 1 Likes
Re: To toad or not to toad Reply #1 – September 24, 2016, 03:59:45 pm Our extra RV vehicle . We have also used bikes, but these modes are quite limited for us- we hate riding on highways. IMHO a toad is a tool to compliment your travel. If your "lifestyle" (I love to use that word) is to plant the RV in a camp and explore the area in a series of daily trips, a toad Amy be the answer. Also if you do off-road or urban (different toads of course) exploration. I can also see one as a benefit for full timers.We tend to explore a lot on the way from camp to camp, then set in camp for a few days walking, paddling, painting, reading. I have ours all picked out. For us, we drive LD everywhere, but it is slow and inconvenient. But so is maneuvering a coach with a toad when we are poking along the back roads exploring. It seems this is an entirely personal choice.
Re: To toad or not to toad Reply #2 – September 24, 2016, 04:53:03 pm I like your style Paul, and the little Fiat would seem to be an ideal companion vehicle. I'd personally prefer not to have the trouble/expense of a toad, but envisage breaking up camp each day to explore say an NP could get old. It may be prudent for us to start off without and see if the trade off is worth it. A scooter on a hitch carrier may be a suitable compromise for us - has anyone here tried this?
Re: To toad or not to toad Reply #3 – September 24, 2016, 05:21:04 pm The "tow or no tow" topic has been discussed many times in the past; you might want to go to the Archives category and plug in "tow or no tow" (or a similar phrase) in the search bar. (Just an FYI: I found 34 pages of posts. Not all posts relate directly to the question of whether to tow or not, but rather deal with equipment, rig preparation, and tow vehicles; you may have to page through the lot to find relevant-to-your question material. )In my experience, these are the most commonly-expressed reasons for not towing:-----Underpowered (or old, overweight, or in poor mechanical condition) rig.Expense of buying an appropriate tow vehicle if one doesn't already have a vehicle that is within weight limits and that can be towed 4-down (without additional modifications.)Additional maintenance, service, fuel expenses (and insurance, if the toad is not already insured as a "daily driver") for the toad. (And, possible additional expenses for "outfitting" the toad depending on what the owner carries on it, e.g., racks. and pods.)Expense of a complete, safe tow system, i.e., hitch upgrades (if necessary), tow bar and attachment equipment, braking system, tire pressure monitoring system.Can't back up with the tow attached (unless one is skilled, and then only for a short distance in a straight line.)Possible difficulty in maneuvering the rig and toad in "tight access" situations/locations, e.g., some gas stations, parking areas, sightseeing locations, etc., or overheating/stressing the combo when pulling a very steep grade; (some unhitch and drive separately, but not possible if one is solo.)Possible feelings of "pressure" to transport the toadless in group get-togethers and situations! In my experience, these are the most commonly-expressed reasons to have a toad.-----Freedom! Leave the rig in place (don't have to break down "camp" and stow stuff back in the rig to go) and drive the toad to shop, do laundry, sightsee, explore, drive roads and go to places (including parking) where the rig would not go/fit.Use the toad for additional "storage" (laundry, pet food, people food, tools, extra bedding, etc.).Have a vehicle to use for transportation and to get to alternate living arrangements in case the rig needs downtime for "repair".Each person's (couple's, family's) RV life and travel style is different; some can't imagine RV travel without a toad, while some feel little or no need to tow and choose to use alternate "supplemental transportation", e.g., renting a car when needed, or using a scooter or a bike. (And, some just drive the rig!) Whether one tows or not depends on how one uses the rig, where, for how long, and in what conditions one travels, and whether there are circumstances specific to the individual person/people which makes towing or not towing the better choice for them.I'm sure that others will give their reasons for towing or not towing; in the end, one has to decide what is going to work for him/her/them. 3 Likes
Re: To toad or not to toad Reply #4 – September 24, 2016, 05:49:04 pm First I'd like to comment on the fact that I have not always towed the same vehicle. I once towed a Honda Civic. I found that it did not have the ground clearance that I needed when negotiating forest service roads or others of that nature. Currently I am towing a Honda CRV. No more ground clearance problems. The same problem might also apply to a Fiat!Then there were three separate incidents when the fuel pump failed on the primary vehicle. On one occasion there were four people (two couples) when the vehicle came to a stop. Have any of you ridden with five people in the cab of a tow truck, i.e. the driver and four others??? Let me tell you it is not fun! On the two other instances I was solo when the fuel pump went out. No problem... the tow truck driver took the L.D. and I followed in the toad. 1 Likes
Re: To toad or not to toad Reply #5 – September 24, 2016, 06:22:19 pm Thank you for the input! Just to clarify, when I talk about a scooter, I'm talking about motorcycle sized transport. In fact, it could be a smaller motorcycle on a hitch carrier, instead of a scooter. Has anyone had such a set-up; did the hitch need reinforcement?
Re: To toad or not to toad Reply #6 – September 24, 2016, 07:04:51 pm After reading some LDO archived discussions, it appears the LD hitch is too weak a carry weight greater than 300#, and even within this weight some have had reinforcements welded on. 300# is pretty lame.
Re: To toad or not to toad Reply #7 – September 24, 2016, 07:14:59 pm There is a member with a Twin-King that has reinforced the hitch and carries a motorized scooter. I have considered the same. And, I'm also looking at an electric bike. If you are not a full-timer, consider having the second person drive the car. This would avoid issues of long steep grades, backing up, and the expense of a 4-down toad, modifying it for towing, breaking system, etc. Hope you find a suitable solution.
Re: To toad or not to toad Reply #8 – September 24, 2016, 07:51:54 pm Matt,There are advantages and disadvantages of pulling a toad. We are currently at the point that we travel only with our 26-1/2 ft. Lazy Daze, without a toad or our previous scooter on the back. Seldom do we have problems finding parking for shopping at a super market or our daily Starbucks or equal coffee shop. We enjoy the ease to have our rig with us, and relax in it where ever we can go. We are not restaurant people and enjoy eating our meals on board, at locations where we enjoy the views. This could have something to do with age!!!!!For many years we have used a toad, including Mexico, cross-country and Alaska. A few years ago we changed to a scooter on the back, but the hassle to take it off and put it on resulted that we more and more left it on the back, without any use. We finally decided that we could easily do without it and do not even miss it.Our L D has sufficient solar to keep us comfortable without hook-ups. We prefer State and National Parks. If we do have to use an R V park we often do not even hook up, unless we like to take long showers.Just another opinion.Aad Rommelse 1 Likes
Re: To toad or not to toad Reply #9 – September 24, 2016, 08:08:38 pm Quote from: Overlander - September 24, 2016, 06:22:19 pmJust to clarify, when I talk about a scooter, I'm talking about motorcycle sized transport. In fact, it could be a smaller motorcycle on a hitch carrier, instead of a scooter. Has anyone had such a set-up; did the hitch need reinforcement?I don't recall the weight of Jon's Vespa, but it might fit your requirements: Hauling A Scooter
Re: To toad or not to toad Reply #10 – September 24, 2016, 08:18:31 pm I found this series of 8-year-old posts on Jon's "scoot hauler" in the Archives, too, but the original message #95762 seems to be missing from the thread and the links are now dead. (Or, Jon's photo links that I clicked are.) I didn't find Jon's original post, not anything in the "Companion". Any suggestions on how to locate the original post?
Re: To toad or not to toad Reply #11 – September 24, 2016, 09:08:59 pm "the little Fiat would seem to be an ideal companion vehicle."Only if you never plan to leave paved roads. The Fiat 500 has a meager 4.1 inches of ground clearance. I don't know of any production car with less. And having towed and driven a Honda Fit (5" ground clearance) for a number of years, I'm all too aware of how limiting that can be. In those years, despite driving carefully, I not only repeatedly scraped the front end of the vehicle on steep and/or uneven driveways, but I scraped a pinhole leak in the oil pan, which had to be welded up before I sold the car.And mind you, I wasn't attempting any kind of off-road travel in the Fit. All this happened on city streets and in mostly developed campgrounds. I can't even imagine what would have happened in the same circumstances to a Fiat with an inch less ground clearance than my Fit.I loved my Fit; it was light in weight, easy to tow, and fun to drive. For running into town for groceries or mail, it was great. But as I said, it imposed serious limitations on where I could safely go. I now tow a Subaru Forester. With 8.9 inches of ground clearance, it has taken me to many places--on and off paved roads--that I would not have dared to take the Fit to. Yes, it weighs more than the Fit... but that's a price I'm willing to pay to be able to go to so many more places.You get my point: ground clearance determines where you can go. If the purpose of a towed car is to get out and explore, more ground clearance is better. It's something to keep in mind when you find yourself falling in love with a cute, tiny car that rides a scant few inches above the ground. 4 Likes
Re: To toad or not to toad Reply #12 – September 24, 2016, 09:35:29 pm Ditto what Andy said although we started with a Chevy HHRwith 6.5 in and switched to a Forester. If you travel out west you will almost certainly want the clearance. Jim
Re: To toad or not to toad Reply #13 – September 24, 2016, 09:59:52 pm Traveled our first few years with no toad but often times bikes. The last 8 or so years with toad. I vastly prefer the freedom of having a small get-around when out on the road.Just went from a Forester to a new Crosstrek. I believe it is 8.7 inches of clearance. I love it so far. Fun to drive and in four fill ups have achieved 28.95, 28.47, 28.97 and 28.35 mpg when 23-31is the expected. Getting a four-down car that doesn't require a lot of fuse pulling and whatnot is the ticket.We love hiking. I can't imagine trying to get Ruby into a trailhead parking lot in a national park or some such. We also enjoy eating out about half the time on the road. Way too much fun searching out dives with great food. Lots of books and apps to help with that. Not many RV spots at restaurants. 1 Likes
Re: To toad or not to toad Reply #14 – September 25, 2016, 08:34:48 am Towing is a life style choice and it's not a cheap choice. For example, a new Rubicon, with SMI toad brakes plus tow bar, etc would be almost $40,000. It's sure not worth it if you only intend to do short trips, as most people do.We have been "out" for five months and are now parked on rather good dirt road with a fine view of the San Rafael Swell. In a few days we will take our Jeep into The Maze of Canyonlands. [4WD only] for a few nights of camping under the stars. It's what we like to do, but it's not for everyone.You need to decide what you want to do and then see if a tow is right for you.This is a recent post on towing. 2 Likes
Re: To toad or not to toad Reply #15 – September 25, 2016, 10:24:33 am It doesn't have to be an all or nothing proposition. Depending in the type of trip we have planned, we sometimes tow and other times do not. I did a solo boondocking trip on the North Shore this past summer and loved being toad free. I was easily able to park a 27' LD at grocery stores, restaurants, laundromats etc. No hooking up and unhooking. Very easy to move around. On the other hand, when the 2 of us are traveling, the toad allows us some separation. It's really nice to set up camp and have the freedom to run for groceries or out to dinner in a small vehicle. Also much easier for 2 vs 1 to hook/unhook. Have you considered an e-bike? They only weigh a bit more that a regular bike and can be carried inside the RV when traveling. E-bikes are evolving and becoming lighter and more powerful (hills!).
Re: To toad or not to toad Reply #16 – September 25, 2016, 10:36:39 am Had the Lee Iacocca ebikes 10 years ago. Worked great when they worked. Had those bikes at the 2006 50th LD anniversary in Cheyenne. Took them all the way downtown and had a nice meal one night. 😊 When the batteries finally died we found out the company had gone out of business and there were no batteries to be had.😞 They are long gone from our lives.I have always been intrigued by ebikes so if anyone out there is using the newest technology I would love to hear about how they are working for you.
Re: To toad or not to toad Reply #17 – September 25, 2016, 11:30:58 am Quote from: JCT - September 24, 2016, 08:18:31 pmI found this series of 8-year-old posts on Jon's "scoot hauler" in the Archives, too, but the original message #95762 seems to be missing from the thread and the links are now dead.Maybe Jon will chime in with links to the photos, but here's message #95762: Yahoo! GroupsHe posted a couple of photos on this blog post: Houn's Journal: THINGS THAT GO BUMP IN THE MORN’
Re: To toad or not to toad Reply #18 – September 25, 2016, 11:49:17 am Jon's scooter rack is beefy. It uses two additional receivers and frame extensions. It easily carries their Vespa.Carrying any heavy cycle requires building a rack that hangs the weight off the frame end not the bumper.Interestingly, at this month's LD Caravan, Jon mentioned he was thinking of getting a toad.The inability to use the scooter in poor and/or cold weather significantly reduces a scooter or motorcycle's utility, not to mention it is even easier to get hurt..Aging bodies do not appreciate such things as much as younger ones (ex-motorcyclist here).We winter camp and cannot imagine not having a weather-tight toad, much less having one with minimal ground clearance.We owned a 1983 LD for eight years and could not tow and really missed exploring the thousands of miles of back roads throughout the western US. Our 2003 LD has changed all of that.Larry
Re: To toad or not to toad Reply #19 – September 25, 2016, 02:18:34 pm Thanks for the link, Andrew! And, Larry's comment "Aging bodies do not appreciate such things as much as younger ones (ex-motorcyclist here)." is on point! I rode for several years when I was young, and, for a while, did consider getting a "scoot" similar to Jon's and carrying it on a two-point heavy-duty hitch on my 23.5". But, since I couldn't figure out how to carry the dog on the bike, I scrapped the idea! (And, yes, my brain kicked in and reminded me that riding in the rain and cold is not fun, and that road rash and broken bones don't heal quite as fast at 75 as they did at 35!) Guess I will stick to wandering around in the rig.....Joan
Re: To toad or not to toad Reply #20 – September 25, 2016, 05:09:16 pm Quote from: JCT - September 24, 2016, 08:18:31 pmI found this series of 8-year-old posts on Jon's "scoot hauler" in the Archives, too, but the original message #95762 seems to be missing from the threadAny suggestions on how to locate the original post? Searching the Yahoo Archive board here for 95762 (the original Yahoo post numbers are at the top of each Archive post so they can be located) yielded this AZ/NM Trip Advice now Vespa
Re: To toad or not to toad Reply #21 – September 25, 2016, 06:04:39 pm Thank you for the input, and links to prior threads. Considering the comments of those who have gone through the motorcycle/scooter route, I'm going to take that off the table.
Re: To toad or not to toad Reply #22 – September 25, 2016, 07:58:38 pm Finding suitable toads is getting more difficult each year. Vehicle models that were towable just a couple years ago have lost this ability with the advent of CVT transmissions, none of which are towable.The Honda CRV and Fit were very common picks and still are, in used form, but they are aging.Jeeps once were lighter but now weight over 4000-lbs, in stock form. Newer, heavier models are towable but require the hitch to be upgraded, the Factory limit is 4000-lbs.Suzuki too sold lightweight 4X4s, but no more, in this country.If a manual transmission is OK, consider a Subaru. It's probably the best choice in a small, somewhat high clearance vehicle but none of them are truly "Trail rated". They will get you to most trailheads without issues and will be more comfortable than Jeep.We tow a 15 year old Jeep Cherokee and wish we could buy another new one. Not sure what I will do in the future.Larry
Re: To toad or not to toad Reply #23 – September 25, 2016, 08:32:18 pm I really wanted to wait one or two more years to get a new toad but with the way things were going with tranny's that can't be towed four down went ahead and bought the Subaru Crosstrek a few weeks back. Got a pretty good deal on a 2016 as they move them to make way for the 2017's.As to a dog on a bike, Boston Terrier lovers here like us will be happy to hear that we were in Key West a few years back and down a street came this guy on his non-motorized bike about 30 mph with his BT on his back gripping his dad's neck with his front paws for all he was worth. That dog looked happy as a clam with the wind blowing in his snout. We laughed for 10 minutes after seeing that!!!🐶🚴😂 4 Likes
Re: To toad or not to toad Reply #24 – September 25, 2016, 09:04:06 pm This link offers helpful info on RV towable vehicles by manufactured year: Downloadable Dinghy Guides | MotorHome Magazine
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