Ford Transit September 14, 2016, 08:55:14 pm We had the opportunity to test drive a 24' Class C on the Ford Transit with the diesel powerstroke engine. Wow! Great handling and expected MPG (13-17). Many manufacturers had smaller class Cs on the new chassis -gas and diesel. The cab is very comfortable and a bit more snug than the familiar E450. No doghouse. It is going to be interesting to see where LD goes with this.
Re: Ford Transit Reply #1 – September 14, 2016, 08:58:26 pm Quote from: Todd - September 14, 2016, 08:55:14 pmWe had the opportunity to test drive a 24' Class C on the Ford Transit with the diesel powerstroke engine. Are you at the Hersey RV show and NOT sharing pictures!!! Probably my mistake ... Todd wouldn't do that. LOL
Re: Ford Transit Reply #3 – September 14, 2016, 10:45:58 pm The GVWR on the 2017 dual wheel cutaway Ford Transit is 10360 pounds. (The 2017 Ford E450 cutaway chassis offers a GVWR of 14500 pounds.) It would be a very good idea to carefully check the weights of any "box" built on the Transit chassis to make sure that even a minimal load would not "push" (or exceed) the GVWR. Joan
Re: Ford Transit Reply #4 – September 15, 2016, 04:28:49 am A show like this is definitely an overload on all senses. I think the big "takeaway" is the new chassis environment. As Joan points out, it's an entirely different world when it comes to how much you can take with you before overloading. (There are plenty of C class still on the E450).On most of the displays are "temps" who appear to know almost nothing about what they are selling. They can't answer even the most basic question, like what is the towing capacity of the rig? CCC is probably a foreign concept to most. Once someone gets serious about buying, a more experienced dude comes out of the woodwork to try to close the deal. No one seems to post actual prices judging from the relationship between sticker price and "show price". I still don't know if the E450 will be around in the future. If it goes away, everyone has to downsize or move to a Cl A? Not likely. Reading lots of favorable comments on the new Ford 6 speed transmission V10. I'm assuming that is what you get now on a LD or other 2017 Cl C. IMHO, if someone put a gun to your head and said "go out there (to 33 football fields) and pick out a new rig in 39 minutes and you have $100K to spend", you would do well to go to the Winnebago lot and pick from a broad variety of RV's in that price range. They're not perfect but nothing is including LD. one final comment, the field looks very different when gas is under $2.50/gallon. If it were $4.50 or $5, the Ford Transit would dominate my thinking and I'd be looking at camping European style with no toad and only the bare necessities.
Re: Ford Transit Reply #5 – September 15, 2016, 11:59:47 am "On most of the displays are "temps" who appear to know almost nothing about what they are selling. They can't answer even the most basic question, like what is the towing capacity of the rig? CCC is probably a foreign concept to most. Once someone gets serious about buying, a more experienced dude comes out of the woodwork to try to close the deal."----Salespeople at an RV show vary little in selling technique and "gaming" from salespeople on a dealer's lot; their job is to move the product, not to educate or inform. The sales person may have extensive training in "reading" a potential buyer in order to manipulate and take advantage of his/her uncertainties, indecision, and, all too often, fundamental lack of knowledge about how to evaluate quality, but (the salesperson may have) very little or no understanding of essential RV-related concepts/concerns, e.g., weights, build quality, chassis specs, and/or of the product s/he is trying to sell. Even if a salesperson is well aware of the "warts" of a particular rig, s/he is very likely to answer questions in ways to deflect the realities and tell a potential customer what s/he wants to hear and/or validate a potential customer's already-held opinion, however wrong! Salespeople are well aware that many potential buyers have no RV experience, have done little or no research, lack understanding of how to assess quality of design, engineering, materials, weights, and overall build quality of a coach and chassis, and are swayed by "shiny bits". A person may be overwhelmed by the almost-carnival atmosphere of a big RV show, and so may be particularly vulnerable to making not only an impulse buy of the RV itself, but also for whatever "upsells" the dealer tacks on, often at an inflated price. ("The deal is good for today only!")Perhaps this sounds like a harsh assessment, and although I'm sure that honest, ethical, and product-savvy salespeople and dealers do exist, I believe that the responsibility of making a smart buy and avoiding getting "snookered" is squarely on the consumer. That YMMV thing, as always. 3 Likes
Re: Ford Transit Reply #6 – September 15, 2016, 01:41:46 pm When I was looking for a RV - the third time, the first two we decided the time was not right - I kind of knew I wanted a Lazy Daze, but thought I should go to the Hershey PA show to look at what was out there. At this point I sort of knew I wanted a LD or BF. Maybe a Phoenix Cruiser (PC) or small Winnebago. At the time I was looking at something in the 24 foot range. I did sit in several larger class B's on the MB as well. Only the BF and PC sales folks were willing to talk about CCC. Close inspection showed many of the RVs were not giving much in the way of pounds for the people riding in the RV. That was especially true of the decked out Class C MB units. To be fair there was more than enough on most of the RV for someone driving from place to place that had full hookups - but that is not how we intended to use our RV. I understand why LD does not show at Hershey or other places. There is a long waiting list for everything they build. Only companies like Morgan and Ferrari are in that club. As I understand it they can not up production to any great degree do to local ordinances. I don't see LD moving to another location and bringing its workforce along under the current ownership. With those things in mind why spend the money on a show? 2 Likes
Re: Ford Transit Reply #7 – September 15, 2016, 02:22:42 pm One salesman asked what we own now and when we said Lazy Daze, he replied that he used to work there when he lived in Florida. (Lazy Days is of course one of the largest dealers located in the sunshine state.)
Re: Ford Transit Reply #8 – September 15, 2016, 02:39:43 pm "One salesman asked what we own now and when we said Lazy Daze..."Obviously the man does not have a clue about the industry that he claims to speak for! 2 Likes
Re: Ford Transit Reply #9 – September 15, 2016, 03:40:44 pm I hope the Mothership decides to go with the F series when the time comes.The Transit makes a fine light duty camping platform but not for more weight.The capacities of the F450 and F550 allow Lazy Daze to really update their design and capabilities. I want an F550 with 4WD and a small lift to access more remote places than I can go now.Now, If I won Powerball, I'd head to Europe and have something custom made to order. 1 Likes
Re: Ford Transit Reply #10 – September 15, 2016, 04:11:01 pm I certainly can't predict the future, but, from what I've read, Ford doesn't seem to have plans to discontinue production of the E350 and E450 cutaway commercial chassis in the near future; both chassis, along with the larger F-series trucks, and the F-53 (small class A) chassis are still in production at the Avon Lake plant outside of Cleveland. After the Kodiak "fiasco" of a few years ago, I can't see Steve being interested in re-designing (re-engineering, re-tooling, re-training workers...) a box to fit the F-series cab chassis, but the build-savvy engineers on this board might offer opinions on how big a job this might be. IMO, if one wants a new LD and is concerned that the E450 chassis option could disappear (and be replaced with whatever, if replaced at all), it would be a good idea to place an order and get in line. Nothing lasts forever. 4 Likes
Re: Ford Transit Reply #11 – September 15, 2016, 05:10:52 pm Quote from: Todd - September 14, 2016, 08:55:14 pmIt is going to be interesting to see where LD goes with this.Don't hold your breath.Chris 2 Likes
Re: Ford Transit Reply #12 – September 15, 2016, 07:28:02 pm Quote from: Jota - September 15, 2016, 03:40:44 pmI want an F550 with 4WD and a small lift to access more remote places than I can go now...Now, If I won Powerball, I'd head to Europe and have something custom made to order.Or just head to Colorado : EarthRoamer
Re: Ford Transit Reply #13 – September 15, 2016, 08:42:59 pm Quote from: JCT - September 15, 2016, 04:11:01 pmIMO, if one wants a new LD and is concerned that the E450 chassis option could disappear (and be replaced with whatever, if replaced at all), it would be a good idea to place an order and get in line. Nothing lasts forever. We hear very positive comments on the 2017 Ford E450 with 6 speed transmission. To Joan's point, we want to get the going while the going is good. Our '99 is back on the market! We want a new RV with this chassis. We don't want the Transit. Todd
Re: Ford Transit Reply #14 – September 16, 2016, 06:27:53 pm Quote from: bearthio - September 15, 2016, 07:28:02 pmOr just head to Colorado : EarthRoamerIf I was going to spend the kind of money Earthroamer wants, I'd go to Europe, get a Mercedesor Bucher Duro chassis and have one of the expedition vehicle makers over there finish it out tomy specs. The Ford chassis is fine but not really heavy duty enough for real back country exploring. 1 Likes
Re: Ford Transit Reply #15 – September 18, 2016, 11:09:32 pm I am seeing a plethora of class c and b+ campers on Transits and Mercs. CCC for the better (smaller) ones is usually around 800-1000#. Good mileage. I can see the appeal. But the economics just don't make sense to me, even if I could convince myself I want a slide out, don't really need all those windows, and will resell the rig in a 2-4 years.But that's just me.
Re: Ford Transit Reply #16 – September 19, 2016, 04:15:43 pm Leisure Travel just introduced a new model (Wonder) on the Ford Transit 178" wheelbase. I believe they are the first to use the long one. The Winnebago Fuse for example is on the 156" platform.I've owned (3) LDs and (1) BF and I really like the idea of a little smaller unit that handles more like an SUV, gets better mileage.After owning the quality LD and BF I couldn't bring myself to buy the Fuse but the Leisure Travel Wonder is quite interesting. The Murphy bed concept for a small motor-home is a great idea in my opinion.Check it out here: https://youtu.be/_dVaGkaocgIOh how I wish LD would do something similar.
Re: Ford Transit Reply #17 – September 19, 2016, 04:48:04 pm As long as you keep the load light and don't tow a heavy vehicle, a Transit maybe the ticket.I notice that many Transit-type RVs belong to younger people. Older folks tend to want more room and conveniences, a trend noticed in the aging RVers we know.Overall, RVs seem be getting bigger not smaller, as evidence by the growing numbers of large Class As and DPs.We saw thousands of them this summer, on our trip to coastal Oregon, easily out numbering the smaller rigs.Guess it may depend on where you travel.As I said before, the US and Canada have wider roads than the rest of the world and can accommodate wide body RVs.Transit-type RVs were developed for the narrower European roads, where our wide body RV would be too wide. Ford could widen the Transit cab, stuff in the intercooled, turbo-charge Power-Stroke V8, from the F-series trucks, and, along with some serious light-weighting, they would have a best seller, as long as the CCC was also raised to a practical level.Someone will eventually come up with a new, modern wide body chassis. I wouldn't be unhappy if it was Toyota or Nissan, if the American truck producers refuse to step up. The world is full of brilliant automotive engineers.Larry 2 Likes
Re: Ford Transit Reply #18 – September 19, 2016, 08:06:00 pm Our '93 22' MP G30 chassis has a 10.5k GVWR. We keep the rig around 9.4k, so it could work on the Transit. LD used to make even smaller RVs - a neighbor has a late 80s 20' (maybe 18') G30. I saw an even older one - might have been late 70s - this morning that looked restored. New paint, stripes, etc.Since LD has all the original plans, it would be fairly trivial for them to roll out a new, smaller 20-22' RV based on the Transit chassis. If they did, I would be first in line to place an order for a spanking brand new rig. As it stands, however, I wouldn't commit over $100k for a new RV based on an aged, older chassis like the E450. Besides, no one seems to understand how long Ford will continue to support it (research some truck reviews from fleets operators, etc.).As in all things, it's easier for home builders, auto companies, RV mfgs, etc to make more money on larger platforms where can offer more "amenities". As long as LD sticks with making 200 rigs/year, with 85% being the mid-bath, then they aren't going to bother (re) introducing a smaller model.As when Toyota introduced their dually platform years ago, there were dozens of builders that brought out RVs - the Dolphin might be the most popular. I keep thinking the same kind of market could develop around the Transit. As it stands now, the 2-3 models that have been introduced are a joke. We took a look at two just to be able to spec the chassis.It's like preaching to the choir here, but once you've spent time in an LD, all others pale in comparison. First and foremost - at least in my mind - is of course the large, large windows. At some point in time, it seems RVs began to focus on internal space/entertainment, which is where the windowless sliders and multi-media rooms come in.So, when you walk into one of these featureless "boxes", it's like imagining vacationing in a storage locker. The poor build quality and lack of finishing features you take for granted in an LD are like a smack across the forehead. I don't see how anyone with the personality make-up of a typical LD owner could even bring themselves to spending more than 3-5 minutes inside before you duck out snickering to yourself.The market for an LD quality 20'+- RV (large windows, no slides, emphasis on finishing touches, etc) on the new Transit exists. If you've ever enjoyed repairing any of the coach structure, you'll find it's just like a house using 2"x3" lumber. Shades of Berra: half the time I'm torn on setting up a build facility out in NV, the other just restoring mine even further (it runs perfect, is in great condition, and the low sunk cost makes essentially free at this point), the remainder waiting for someone to walk in and own this market segment.
Re: Ford Transit Reply #19 – September 20, 2016, 05:24:11 pm Hey SNERF,I agree with some of your points, but I believe the Leasure Travel units might be examples of quality on the smaller platforms.NCCAMPGUY
Re: Ford Transit Reply #20 – September 20, 2016, 05:29:25 pm Quote from: snerf - September 19, 2016, 08:06:00 pmSince LD has all the original plans, it would be fairly trivial for them to roll out a new, smaller 20-22' RV based on the Transit chassis. If they did, I would be first in line to place an order for a spanking brand new rig. As it stands, however, I wouldn't commit over $100k for a new RV based on an aged, older chassis like the E450. Besides, no one seems to understand how long Ford will continue to support it (research some truck reviews from fleets operators, etc.).LD doesn't build off plans, the various floorpans are built off templates.When Steve designs a new floorplan, the wood frame is hand built, with changes made until he is satisfied. The completed frame members are then copied to templates that are used in building subsequent units.He will need to build complete new sets of templates for whatever comes down the line unless a new cutaway becomes available with the same dimensions, which seem unlikely. Each floorpan will require new templates. Would be a huge job for a one-man design team.I would prefer to see a modern, light-weighted version of the E450, with the cab widened to the width of the rear dual wheels. Bet they would sell better than Sprinter bases RVs. Most people want more, not less space.Some new version will probably appear even if the RV industry is bypassed. Utility trucks, based on the capacities of the E450, in many cases will not be satisfied by the Sprinter's much lower CCC and power.F-Series chassis RVs have not caught on primarily due to the added three feet or so in length. The F-Series has a modern chassis and it's Power-Stroke diesel drivetrain would make a big difference in the mileage and drivability, if transplanted into an E-Series chassis. Larry
Re: Ford Transit Reply #21 – September 20, 2016, 07:42:35 pm Musn’t overlook the OCCC on Leisure Travel units. Unless they have improved GREATLY on the Transit chassis . . . well, one should look carefully at that sticker on the closet door. They caught my eye a few years ago, and it took a while to get the stats, and when I did, I was astounded. Their 24-foot model is the same length as a Lazy Daze 24-foot model, but the usable payload is . . . shall we say, “different”. Virtual hugs, Judie•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~• Quote from: nccampguy - September 20, 2016, 05:24:11 pmHey SNERF,I agree with some of your points, but I believe the Leasure Travel units might be examples of quality on the smaller platforms.NCCAMPGUY
Re: Ford Transit Reply #22 – September 20, 2016, 09:37:24 pm Quote from: Judie Ashford - September 20, 2016, 07:42:35 pmMusn’t overlook the OCCC on Leisure Travel units...it took a while to get the stats.They have a slick modern website, but I couldn't track down any OCCC "stats". Do you actually need to open a wardrobe door to see the numbers?
Re: Ford Transit Reply #23 – September 21, 2016, 01:41:37 am "They have a slick modern website, but I couldn't track down any OCCC "stats". Do you actually need to open a wardrobe door to see the numbers?"Actually - yes. With all that heavy furniture and countertops, I was always curious about the payload stats. I don't remember now where I saw it, but it was a chart somewhere. I think they play it pretty close to the vest. I don't recall where/how I saw the figure, or even what it was . . . I just remember having to pick my lower jaw up off the floor in shock.Here is a URL depicting some posts from The Sprinter Forum as shown wherein folks talk about this configuration - its plusses and minuses. New Leisure Travel Tease - Page 4 - Sprinter-ForumHope this helps someone. Virtual hugs, Judie
Re: Ford Transit Reply #24 – September 21, 2016, 10:27:29 am Judie, nice link! Reading it reminds me of the beauty of simplicity as demonstrated by LD Inc. For me, depth of quality beats breadth of product line. Though Liesure may be making a statement about where it's chassis is heading, and leaving out many "features" to make the weight.
Topic: Ford Transit (Read 738 times)
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Topic: Ford Transit (Read 738 times)
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