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Topic: Is 3500 lbs too heavy for a LD to pull? (Read 559 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Is 3500 lbs too heavy for a LD to pull?
Reply #25 –
Quote from: JCT  - 
"I guess towing 4 down is the answer for me."
----
Mimi, concerns about weight, tire wear, etc., may be moot with this particular vehicle as a toad; according to the dinghy towing guide listed in my previous post, the only towable 2007 Honda SUV is a CRV; the Element is not listed as being towable.

If the dinghy towing guide is correct (and I have no reason to think that it's not), you will not be able to tow your Honda Element "four down", i.e., on its own wheels behind the motorhome. You may want to read what the Element owner's manual says about towing, and talk to a knowledgeable Honda person for corroboration.
Yes, Thank you.  I did some research on this a while back and discovered that that statement may very likely be legalese for Honda not wanting to toad test Elements after 2005 since they were planning to discontinue the car. They didn't want to invest more money into it so they wouldn't warranty later models for being towed.  People have been towing E's behind RV's without issue, as far as I can tell.  They just follow the instructions from Honda for the 2004 and before E's.  Apparently, the drive train on the CRV is the same as on the E.  I think the issue is lubricating the AWD system, which must be done every 8 hours by a start and shift procedure.  I wouldn't be driving even close to that on a daily basis.  I would give it a try because I just can't part with my E.
Save a life.
Adopting a pet is the closest a human
will ever come to choosing a relative.
hsus.org  aspca.org
1992 Lazy Daze T/K  23.5' Ford 460 c.i.d./7.6 liter V8 engine, electronic fuel injection, E4OD 4-speed auto transmission
Full time 6/2017
Re: Is 3500 lbs too heavy for a LD to pull?
Reply #26 –
Quote from: JCT  - 
I believe the last production year for the Element was 2011 so all Elements are towable.
----
If this is accurate, do you know the reason why the Element would not be listed as being towable in the dinghy guide? 
My information is that, Honda wouldn't warranty Honda Elements after 2004 for being towed because, while they didn't change anything in the cars, they didn't want to make an additional investment in tow testing because they were planning to discontinue the car.  The legal dept rewrote the manuals to accommodate the company.  There is actually conflicting information in the same manual years.  This is what Honda Dealers have said, along with Remco and Honda Element owners.  I have no reason not to believe them because I have never found any reports of issues flat towing the E.
Save a life.
Adopting a pet is the closest a human
will ever come to choosing a relative.
hsus.org  aspca.org
1992 Lazy Daze T/K  23.5' Ford 460 c.i.d./7.6 liter V8 engine, electronic fuel injection, E4OD 4-speed auto transmission
Full time 6/2017
Re: Is 3500 lbs too heavy for a LD to pull?
Reply #27 –
Quote from: JCT  - 
I suggest checking Remco Towing; plugging in the model specifics might offer a definitive answer of whether the Element it or is not towable and if so, what modifications would need to be made.

Store : Remco
Yes!  They have outfitted a lot of E's for towing behind RV's.  How did you know that? lol  Wow...you guys know your stuff:-)
Save a life.
Adopting a pet is the closest a human
will ever come to choosing a relative.
hsus.org  aspca.org
1992 Lazy Daze T/K  23.5' Ford 460 c.i.d./7.6 liter V8 engine, electronic fuel injection, E4OD 4-speed auto transmission
Full time 6/2017
Re: Is 3500 lbs too heavy for a LD to pull?
Reply #28 –
Actually, the gross combined weight for the 2017s is 22,000 lbs; however, the GVRW is still 14,500 lbs.  This implies that one could tow a 7,500 lb vehicle....remember hitch is only rated at 4,000 lbs.
Ross Taylor
2017 MB
Re: Is 3500 lbs too heavy for a LD to pull?
Reply #29 –
I towed a 2007 Honda Element SC automatic, following some specific guidelines, and never had a problem.  I currently tow a 2008 Honda Civic that is not on the list of towables following basically the same procedures.  It's all about legal issues as some people don't follow instructions very well and when there transmissions fail, they try to sue the mfg.
  BTW, my Element was a very good toad.  Tracked nice and had lots of storage. 
Re: Is 3500 lbs too heavy for a LD to pull?
Reply #30 –
It's good to see that LD has finally updated their paper work for Fords GCVW as it has been 22,000 lbs since at least 2011.
Dave & Sandy
2014 Mid Bath
Re: Is 3500 lbs too heavy for a LD to pull?
Reply #31 –
It's good to see that LD has finally updated their paper work for Fords GCVW, as it has been 22,000 lbs since at least 2011.
Dave and Sandy
2014 Mid Bath
 
Re: Is 3500 lbs too heavy for a LD to pull?
Reply #32 –
We have towed a 2002 Honda CRV since acquisition in Oct 2012. It's very intimidating at first, but one quickly learns the ropes. The Ford E450 handles the toad effortlessly. We love the convenience of a toad ( especially when we travel together). We have the hookup and disconnect down to a science. Someone else here referred to the toad as a "rolling storage shed". I really love that description! We use it to carry the bikes (inside), kennels, helmets, and a few misc things. We removed the larger of the 2 seats to make more room for the bikes.
Todd (and Steve)
'17 Winnebago Minnie Winnie and '13 Honda CRV
(Former '99 RB owners from 2012-2016)
Re: Is 3500 lbs too heavy for a LD to pull?
Reply #33 –
Judie talked about two "stops" - 14400 (or 14500?) for the RV total, and 20,000 for the RV plus whatever is towed.  Let me add a third stop - 4000 pounds maximum for the standard LD hitch.  You can load your LD any way you want, as long as you do not exceed 14400 pounds.  (Actually, you should check each axle.  Keep the front below 4900 and keep the rear below 9500.)  You can then tow a 3500 pound car without worrying about being overweight, as long as you do not exceed the other "stops".  If you put a car on a trailer or a dolly, make sure you add the weight of the car and the weight of the trailer or dolly, keeping that total below 4000.

Now, for a little real-world stuff...  My 2008 MB, loaded, with full fresh water and gas and empty waste tanks, comes in at 14100, and I tow a Subaru Forester which when filled with gas and what I carry in it, weighs 3880 pounds, making my total, going down the road, 17980 pounds.  I do not climb hills fast, and I use a lower gear to descend, but it seems to be fine, with 67000 miles covered that way.

Ken F in WY
'08 MB
Re: Is 3500 lbs too heavy for a LD to pull?
Reply #34 –
Quote from: Kenneth Fears  - 
Judie talked about two "stops" - 14400 (or 14500?) for the RV total, and 20,000 for the RV plus whatever is towed.  Let me add a third stop - 4000 pounds maximum for the standard LD hitch.

Now, for a little real-world stuff...  My 2008 MB, loaded, with full fresh water and gas and empty waste tanks, comes in at 14100, and I tow a Subaru Forester which when filled with gas and what I carry in it, weighs 3880 pounds, making my total, going down the road, 17980 pounds.  I do not climb hills fast, and I use a lower gear to descend, but it seems to be fine, with 67000 miles covered that way.

Ken F in WY


The older LD's, like before 2006 weigh 14,050 someone said.  How can I confirm the weights of each year?  The 4000 lb hitch is perfect since the Element is 3600 lbs.  I did remove the rear seats, so that probably takes off another 150 lbs or so.  When you said you don't climb hills fast.  How fast can you go?  It seems I'll be okay on weight, but I would like to lighten it further.  How much weight does a black tank add, do you know?  I plant to install a composting toilet, so thought I would just remove the black tank.  Good idea?  Bad idea?
Save a life.
Adopting a pet is the closest a human
will ever come to choosing a relative.
hsus.org  aspca.org
1992 Lazy Daze T/K  23.5' Ford 460 c.i.d./7.6 liter V8 engine, electronic fuel injection, E4OD 4-speed auto transmission
Full time 6/2017
Re: Is 3500 lbs too heavy for a LD to pull?
Reply #35 –
The good old Pocket Guide compiled by Andy makes us all seem smarter than we are. You may already be using it.
Paul
'92 Mid Bath
Re: Is 3500 lbs too heavy for a LD to pull?
Reply #36 –
"How much weight does a black tank add, do you know?  I plant to install a composting toilet, so thought I would just remove the black tank.  Good idea?  Bad idea?"
----
You may want to read this archived thread on the viability of composting toilets in RVs before deciding to jettison holding tanks.  (And, one does have to dump the grey tank, too, so why not just do both at the same time?)

composting toilets

I have no idea how much the black tank weighs empty, but, for practical purposes, one can probably figure the "effluent weight" at 8.3 pounds per gallon, i.e., the same as water.
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Is 3500 lbs too heavy for a LD to pull?
Reply #37 –
I'm a composting fan. In theory, and in non-RV applications. But my thoughts on putting one in an RV came to an abrupt halt when I read some of the negative comments about them on any and all RV forums, then thought about the resale value of my RV plummeting to near zero. Sometimes the market governs my actions.

As Joan reminds us, YMMV. 

As a wild guess based on looking up the weight of a square 35 gallon water tank- 15#, or two gallons of water.
Paul
'92 Mid Bath
Re: Is 3500 lbs too heavy for a LD to pull?
Reply #38 –
I've seen nothing but negative comments about composting toilets on nearly every RV related forum I read, but oddly enough, almost always from people who haven't owned and used them.  Those who actually tried it seemed amazed at how well it worked for them despite some initial skepticism.

As much knowledge as there is on this forum, it might not be the best place to seek advice on this particular subject.

Steve


2015 TK
Re: Is 3500 lbs too heavy for a LD to pull?
Reply #39 –
Quote from: Steve TK  - 
I've seen nothing but negative comments about composting toilets on nearly every RV related forum I read, but oddly enough, almost always from people who haven't owned and used them.  Those who actually tried it seemed amazed at how well it worked for them despite some initial skepticism.  Steve

When and if I ever conclude they work as advertised I will install one in a NY minute.  After >75000 RV miles and many hundreds, maybe a thousand dumps, I AM READY!  😎   My 44 foot tag axle Tiffin Bus gave me close to a week before I had to dump for the two of us.  Our much smaller LD black tank, not so much.
Re: Is 3500 lbs too heavy for a LD to pull?
Reply #40 –
Bob,

Not even a week in that 44ft beast?  At least with its 65000 GCWR, towing a honeywagon is an option.

Steve
2015 TK
Re: Is 3500 lbs too heavy for a LD to pull?
Reply #41 –
Quote from: Todd  - 
We have towed a 2002 Honda CRV since acquisition in Oct 2012. It's very intimidating at first, but one quickly learns the ropes. The Ford E450 handles the toad effortlessly.
Quote from: Todd  - 
We have towed a 2002 Honda CRV since acquisition in Oct 2012. It's very intimidating at first, but one quickly learns the ropes. The Ford E450 handles the toad effortlessly. We love the convenience of a toad ( especially when we travel together). We have the hookup and disconnect down to a science. Someone else here referred to the toad as a "rolling storage shed". I really love that description! We use it to carry the bikes (inside), kennels, helmets, and a few misc things. We removed the larger of the 2 seats to make more room for the bikes.

This is my set-up.  The CR-V has lots of space for storage, and I do put my bike "inside."  :-)
Cheryl (a.k.a. Desert Diva)
1998 Lazy Daze (26.5 mid-bath)
2002 Honda CR-V