Wandering eyes August 15, 2016, 11:12:12 am Beat me up.Tear me to shreds. Throw me under the bus.Seriously, I would appreciate your critiques. Our style of RVing is that we never leave pavement.We spend 90 days annually living in our rig, sometimes for 2 weeks in 1 place, other times moving daily. Our 27 LD has worked well for us. I'm at the stage where I see bells and whistles and want them. I dislike large slide out rooms, this unit has a full wall slide that only extends 8". It really opens up the living area without that huge "dance floor" in the middle. The coach feels cozy, yet that additional 8" adds a significant amount of additional leg room. The narrow slide wouldn't be an issue in the places we camp. (Nor would the additional 5' length). The larger pantry and additional drawer space are big pluses. The outdoor TV might encourage us to actually go outside once in awhile. Taking a pass on the outdoor kitchen.New 2017 Winnebago Minnie Winnie 31G Motor Home Class C at Lichtsinn RV |...Lichstinn is amazing in terms of providing great photos, videos, copy of window sticker etc. And only 2 hours from home!Desired options: (not on window sticker for this unit)...tinted windows. inverter, upgraded sinks and faucets, fantastic fan, solar outlet for renogy suitcase system, vent covers, tow package.We sleep at opposite ends of the coach. The 2 dogs take the lower bunk. ( The upper bunk can be a wardrobe or just used for soft storage.)The power awning is a big plus.The fiberglass roof is 1 piece and comes with a 10 year warranty. (I won't consider a coach with a rubber roof.)I've spent time alone in and under the coach (no sales pressure). No particle board. All solid plywood drawers and cabinets with full drawer glides. 7 120 V outlets. 2- 12 V . 1 Ext outlet.Levelers (An option on LD too of course).We want to stick with Cl C for all the same reasons we bought a LD.Anticipated out the door is about 80-85K. (Another reason I like Winnebago vs LD).We're taking this slow. I've taken all the comments regarding weight to heart. Even weighed our LD for the first time yesterday to get a better handle on what kind of CCC we need. Our minimum CCC is 1,800. Doing a test drive today of the floor model and plan to take it to a catscale to get actual dry weight.Still planning to go to Hershey to round out our search. We're in no hurry to place an order.Especially interested in feedback from those whose eyes have wandered before and can relate to what we are going through. Plan is to sell our '99 RB ourselves. It'll be a sweet deal for someone not scared off by the high mileage. Todd
Re: Wandering eyes Reply #1 – August 15, 2016, 12:12:17 pm " plan to take it to a catscale to get actual dry weight."Super idea.I find it hard to imagine that a 32'9" Class C with a slide, levelers, gassed up and fully loaded for a trip won't be overweight when it's leaves the owners driveway.Add a tow car on top of that?Ed
Re: Wandering eyes Reply #2 – August 15, 2016, 12:40:27 pm Todd, we spent a lot of time looking at Winnebago before we lucked into our LD. Lichtsinn is the only place we would buy, after investigating how coaches are delivered. One could say Winnebago is, like LD, one of the last independent builders, though not small. Their quality seems to me to be in the upper tier, IMHO at least as good as Airstream. Some reports of poor QC though. The complexity of modern coaches, again IMO, is their weakness. When companies brag of how many miles of wire they use, I worry. Maybe that's just me. I like the retro, stubborn simplicity of LD. That said, the room of a slide out is a real benefit for some. When we worked out of our TT we enjoyed the space. Other brands work. We who drink the LD kool-aid may think it is the only brand, but most people who who RV have never heard of it, in my subjective survey. Of course most people are not as sophisticated, good looking and enlightened as us cognoscenti 😉You demonstrate a good understanding of your RV usage, so first step done. It seems to me that getting the right floor plan is related to knowing yourself, and is the most important thing in selecting an RV.Larger coaches mean the opportunity to carry more weight. If you load it up, is there enough CCC for you? Now that you weighed you LD, try unloading it and weighing again to see what you carry. Now, will that load grow if there is more storage to fill? Good idea to weigh the Minie when you drive it. Your test drive will reveal a lot about quality of build vs LD. When we were bigger we changed furniture in the rig to capitalize on the extra room- a lazy boy. That was the hardest thing to give up, leg room and lounge room. So this coach may get you that benefit, or it may not be important to you. I have seen people using outdoor TVs, and thought it cool, especially during football season, but just not for me. Our power awning experience was not so good. Nice to deploy, retract, but it was like a floppy hat brim, always billowing up. When in Hershey, maybe you can look at Nexus, they also have a slide, are factory direct to save money, and have a decent reputation. Good luck! Good hunting!
Re: Wandering eyes Reply #3 – August 15, 2016, 01:24:22 pm Todd - The VERY FIRST THING that would cause me concern is what they call "Cargo Weight" at 1778 pounds. Before you spend any more time contemplating this choice, you will need to know if that is BEFORE water and propane weight, or AFTER. Be sure to compare the very specific weight allowance figures on the Lazy Daze site for their different lengths of units so that you are comparing apples to apples.If you are going to venture into the ~33-foot arena, you might want to seriously look at a Class A unit because of the weight issue. There is an enormous difference in "feel" between the two styles.As history, we have owned two Volkswagen campers, a Sportsmobile camper (still have this one), a 40-foot Teton fifth wheel, a 22-foot 1985 Lazy Daze, and a 40-foot 1999 Newmar Mountain Aire. A 2005 Lazy Daze RB is our current rig. Before purchasing the 1985 Lazy Daze in 1991, we rented all lengths of RV's (24 to 33 feet), including Fleetwood, Winnebago, and Holiday Rambler. If at all possible, I would encourage you to rent a 33-foot unit to see what you think about handling it when going from place to place, maneuvering into a camping space, going in and out of a gas station, and any other situation that you feel might impact you because of the extra length and just general bulk of the unit. Be sure to check length limit postings at places that you know you want to visit.Renting might answer those nagging thoughts in your mind. Rent for long enough to become familiar with the unit, so your decision is based on some experience.Not to influence you . . . but if you have read RV chat lists for very long, you will have noticed a plethora of posts about post-purchase visits back to a given SOB factory to fix things that are not quite right, even with a new rig. I think it was Kent, on this list, who mentioned his reasons for purchasing a NEW Lazy Daze, as opposed to a new or used Some Other Brand. Those reasons rang true with me. I don't have the time, energy, or inclination to drive to Iowa or Alabama to have things fixed, even if the campground is free and luxurious!There are others on this list who have jumped ship to purchase a different brand (see above - we've had a few, too), but the reasons are varied. Only you can make this decision, but I would sincerely encourage you to rent an extra-length unit before making a final decision. This will tell you not only how you can interact with a different brand, but how it feels to be in, drive, and park a different-length unit. You may find that it is a cakewalk and your fears are for naught. On the other hand, you may find it is more difficult than you had expected, and would be more comfortable remaining with a shorter length and proven stability of product.Having said all that, I am constantly trying to get into a quality B-van (Pleasure-Way) in order to be able to store my RV at my home instead of eight miles away. But we always come back to the benefits of a Lazy Daze when all is said and (not yet) done. Virtual hugs, Judie 2 Likes
Re: Wandering eyes Reply #4 – August 15, 2016, 01:29:10 pm Friends of ours bought a Winnie Minnie new in '97. Rig was a nightmare after a couple years. Roof was only 1" thick, not the 1.5" advertised, since the 1.25" screws we used for the solar panels poked through the ceiling. As for the framing, when the entire back end ripped out from the top, unprovoked, there was no sign the screws had ever met metal during assembly. Lots of other quality issues, ergonomic issues, etc.Steve
Re: Wandering eyes Reply #5 – August 15, 2016, 04:20:25 pm Todd, no shame in looking at other brands- it's the best way to get a feel for the differences in floorplans, features, quality, etc. I suspect most folks on the forum have owned other brands, as have I. You may want to check out the RV Consumer Group as part of your research. It costs a little dinero to join but well worth it, IMHO.RV Consumer Group - We Rate RVsGood luck in whatever you decide! 1 Likes
Re: Wandering eyes Reply #6 – August 15, 2016, 04:42:45 pm Test drive was reassuring- adjustment to longer tail swing isn't going to be an issue. The wet weight of the Spirit 31G is approximately 12,371. (Varies with options selected.) (I lucked out and met a Winnebago corporate rep who was able to answer my questions in more detail than the newbie sales rep. ) With a GVWR of 14,500 (same as LD), The 31G has a CCC of 2,039. After weighing my fully loaded rig yesterday and adding missing passenger, 2 dogs, and food I come up with a cargo/occupant weight of 1,534. This gives me a comfortable margin of safety, should I decide to pursue this coach. We have to allow 50 lbs for the tow car as part of CCC. Bottom line, a 32' coach passes 2 critical tests. (Driveability and CCC). The factory rep was very candid when I asked about common reasons Winnies come back for warranty work. Winnebago had major problems with Schwintek slide systems. (#1). They use a more reliable system now and the initial results are encouraging in terms of improved reliability. #2 was power converters, a bad brand. They've switched to something new. The slide extends 17" (not eight). The 2017 has upgraded bedding, laid down again on queen, couch, and BOC. As couches, LD wins. No comparison beteen MW bedding and LD. Ducted heat and air seems luxurious and quieter I assume. Lots to ponder, thank you everyone for your honest feedback and support. Next step is Hershey!Winnebago does solar, looking forward to seeing that on the spec sheet with pricing. There is an outside outlet to plug in a suitcase in addition to the rooftop panel(s).
Re: Wandering eyes Reply #7 – August 15, 2016, 05:59:43 pm Quote from: Todd - August 15, 2016, 04:42:45 pm "Winnebago had major problems with Schwintek slide systems. (#1). They use a more reliable system now and the initial results are encouraging in terms of improved reliability......Winnebago does solar, looking forward to seeing that on the spec sheet with pricing. There is an outside outlet to plug in a suitcase in addition to the rooftop panel(s).Todd,Best of luck on your new adventure. Speaking for myself..."I'd rather fight than switch", but that's just me. My Dad had different RV's throughtout his "camping" career. Class A's, Slide on truck bed campers, trailers but no Class C's. I think he would be proud of me for choosing LD.As for slide outs, the most reliable slide out for me is the one LD left off my rig.As for the plug in for a suitcase solar panel, count me in. With 2 on the roof, I think the roof is crowded enough. A simple plug in would be great. Honestly, you gotta do what you think is best. Do your due diligence and full steam ahead. I'm sure you'll figure it out.Good luck with what ever choice you make. Just don't forget your friends at LDO.Kent 2 Likes
Re: Wandering eyes Reply #8 – August 15, 2016, 08:34:46 pm Quote from: Judie Ashford - August 15, 2016, 01:24:22 pmTodd - The VERY FIRST THING that would cause me concern is what they call "Cargo Weight" at 1778 pounds. Before you spend any more time contemplating this choice, you will need to know if that is BEFORE water and propane weight, or AFTER. Be sure to compare the very specific weight allowance figures on the Lazy Daze site for their different lengths of units so that you are comparing apples to apples.If you are going to venture into the ~33-foot arena, you might want to seriously look at a Class A unit because of the weight issue. There is an enormous difference in "feel" between the two styles.As history, we have owned two Volkswagen campers, a Sportsmobile camper (still have this one), a 40-foot Teton fifth wheel, a 22-foot 1985 Lazy Daze, and a 40-foot 1999 Newmar Mountain Aire. A 2005 Lazy Daze RB is our current rig. Before purchasing the 1985 Lazy Daze in 1991, we rented all lengths of RV's (24 to 33 feet), including Fleetwood, Winnebago, and Holiday Rambler. If at all possible, I would encourage you to rent a 33-foot unit to see what you think about handling it when going from place to place, maneuvering into a camping space, going in and out of a gas station, and any other situation that you feel might impact you because of the extra length and just general bulk of the unit. Be sure to check length limit postings at places that you know you want to visit.Renting might answer those nagging thoughts in your mind. Rent for long enough to become familiar with the unit, so your decision is based on some experience.Not to influence you . . . but if you have read RV chat lists for very long, you will have noticed a plethora of posts about post-purchase visits back to a given SOB factory to fix things that are not quite right, even with a new rig. I think it was Kent, on this list, who mentioned his reasons for purchasing a NEW Lazy Daze, as opposed to a new or used Some Other Brand. Those reasons rang true with me. I don't have the time, energy, or inclination to drive to Iowa or Alabama to have things fixed, even if the campground is free and luxurious!There are others on this list who have jumped ship to purchase a different brand (see above - we've had a few, too), but the reasons are varied. Only you can make this decision, but I would sincerely encourage you to rent an extra-length unit before making a final decision. This will tell you not only how you can interact with a different brand, but how it feels to be in, drive, and park a different-length unit. You may find that it is a cakewalk and your fears are for naught. On the other hand, you may find it is more difficult than you had expected, and would be more comfortable remaining with a shorter length and proven stability of product.Having said all that, I am constantly trying to get into a quality B-van (Pleasure-Way) in order to be able to store my RV at my home instead of eight miles away. But we always come back to the benefits of a Lazy Daze when all is said and (not yet) done. Virtual hugs, JudieI want an LD as much as the next person, however remember that there many more red cars in accidents than purple cars. There are probably 100 to 1 Winnebagos on the road compared to LD.. And there are plenty of examples of rotted out LD out there and if more of them were out of the dry southwest there would be many more. One of the big problems with retail sales is the delivery of vehicles on salted roads and then never being washed. It can even happen with the chassis before a coach body is installed. 1 Likes
Re: Wandering eyes Reply #9 – August 16, 2016, 07:09:08 am We took Bessie off her pedestal years ago. 😀Ironically, after all the maintenance we've put into her, a new owner may get 5 years of relatively trouble free RV'ing. One never knows what will happen with a used ( or new) rig!
Re: Wandering eyes Reply #10 – August 16, 2016, 08:14:07 am After enjoying our LD MB for 8 years and 90,000 miles, we spent 5 years away in a Class A with all the bells and whistles. The room with the slides was great, enjoyed the outside TV, air leveling, and the handling was fine. What was not enjoyable was keeping everything fixed. Each time we were on a trip, we had to seek out a service center to fix the problems or wait to return home to have something fixed. The last six months the motorhome spent more time being repaired than we were able to use it. The manufacturer stood behind their motorhome, but as time progressed our attitude changed from good we have everything fixed, to what is going to break next. We also found that many state parks, etc. had a limited number of larger RV sites and generally they were occupied. We decided that having a smaller quality motorhome without all the bells and whistles, with their associated problems, would be best for us. We are excited about picking up our 2017 MB in March or April of next year and continuing our traveling adventures with fewer problems. Some of the many things we enjoyed about the LD were the large water and waste tanks for a Class C, the CCC, the views from the double pain windows and interior design. Good luck with what ever motorhome you decide to purchase. 3 Likes
Re: Wandering eyes Reply #11 – August 16, 2016, 10:25:46 am Quote from: Ross and Beverly Taylor - August 16, 2016, 08:14:07 amAfter enjoying our LD MB for 8 years and 90,000 miles, we spent 5 years away in a Class A with all the bells and whistles. The room with the slides was great, enjoyed the outside TV, air leveling, and the handling was fine. What was not enjoyable was keeping everything fixed. Each time we were on a trip, we had to seek out a service center to fix the problems or wait to return home to have something fixed. The last six months the motorhome spent more time being repaired than we were able to use it. The manufacturer stood behind their motorhome, but as time progressed our attitude changed from good we have everything fixed, to what is going to break next. We also found that many state parks, etc. had a limited number of larger RV sites and generally they were occupied. We decided that having a smaller quality motorhome without all the bells and whistles, with their associated problems, would be best for us. We are excited about picking up our 2017 MB in March or April of next year and continuing our traveling adventures with fewer problems. Some of the many things we enjoyed about the LD were the large water and waste tanks for a Class C, the CCC, the views from the double pain windows and interior design. Good luck with what ever motorhome you decide to purchase.Ross, would you share the brand of Class A with us? Just curious.Chris 1 Likes
Re: Wandering eyes Reply #12 – August 16, 2016, 10:36:07 am Tiffin was the manufacturer. They did stand behind their product, but we had way too many problems. 1 Likes
Re: Wandering eyes Reply #13 – August 16, 2016, 11:23:29 am I remember, as a kid, folks were very cautious about buying any FORD product. You know the jibe...F.O.R.D.Fix Or Repair Daily. That stigma has faded away, I believe.Now in the RV world it may be THOR...Thorry You Bought It. There are plenty of tales of Thor products suffering from the F.O.R.D syndrome. Maybe that will also pass soon. LD certainly isn't the only manufacturer that makes a quality, dependable, out of the gate RV. Right? But then that's why I choose LD in the first place.Winnie's (my Dad loved his) have a solid reputation. That's a GOOD thing. Kent 1 Likes
Re: Wandering eyes Reply #14 – August 16, 2016, 12:23:48 pm The idea of a class A come to me as well, and there are some nice ones out there that are not 40 foot tag axle monsters. The comments about reliability by Ross and others brought this long time full time couple to mind. They do an excellent podcast as well. One of the themes I get from them is how often they route themselves to manufacturers of their motor home and components for repairs. My RV should be as simple as I am. Or maybe it just seems simple to me because it is elegantly engineered? I like LD. ps: Kent, it is First On Race Day
Re: Wandering eyes Reply #15 – August 16, 2016, 12:43:14 pm Quote from: paul banbury - August 16, 2016, 12:23:48 pm"... First On Race Day."Paul, I stand corrected. Just glad LD didn't put my rig on a VW chassis. Ha!Kent 1 Likes
Re: Wandering eyes Reply #16 – August 16, 2016, 12:43:51 pm We had a similar experience with our fulltime adventure with a SOB - a 40-foot Newmar Mountain Aire diesel pusher - only without the constant problems. During our 8+ years of ownership, we had only five problems that I can recall - a transfer switch was replaced, the slide room had a minor adjustment and new rubber, and there was something with the engine that we fixed ourselves with the help of the telephone assistance of a tech at Coach-Net. The three things that required assistance were taken care of by a mobile technician right at the campground where we were staying. The fourth thing was a resealing of the fiberglass roof, which was done at a repair place in Eugene, Oregon, and the fifth was a windshield replacement - the previous owner had traveled many miles in Alaska, and there were a few anomalies in the windshield when we got it. Oh, and the giant generator blew up - whew - covered by Coach-Net!The most aggravating part of ownership was the need to go annually to have the oil changed and a general check up (we didn't drive a lot of miles), which was painless (except in the wallet), but an all-day affair. We found a place a few blocks from a convenient campground, so left the big rig in the morning and went back to the campground to spend the day at the campground in our campervan, or ran errands, so it wasn't THAT much of an inconvenience on only an annual basis. A couple of times it took only a couple of hours, so we just hung out in our campervan in their parking lot. There was a lounge, so we could go inside as needed.We actually were very happy in that rig, but illness forced us out in 2009. We happily transitioned back into a 2005 Lazy Daze RB, which has presented a few problems as well. Nothing serious, but probably as much of an aggravation as the circumstances surrounding the problems with the big rig. We were younger (and not sick) with the big rig, so that plays into the equation, too.All that said, the driver (not me) found it very exhausting to have to deal with all the vagaries of shoehorning a 40-foot behemoth into places. His constant fear was that he would inadvertently get us into a place where there would be no way to turn around, and of course, ordinary campgrounds are seldom set up to accommodate really long rigs. At 33 feet, this problem may be somewhat less prevalent.Even just checking in to a campground could be exhausting - the not knowing if there would be room to maneuver properly, hairpin turns, blocking the entrance, overhangs, street widths, etc..Our slide room was only 18 inches, but even that required some attention to make sure everything was still usable as regards the positioning within the site. Fortunately the slide blocked nothing inside the coach when it was in, so we frequently just didn't put it out for a short stay, or if there were problems with positioning within the site.Oh, one thing about slide rooms . . . be sure to take into account which pieces of furniture/appliances are in the slide area. A heavy refrigerator in a slide room can be something of a stress on the mechanism. We had a 12-foot side-by-side refrigerator, but it was on the opposite side from the slide. The slide room encompassed the sofa and the kitchen sink and cabinets, and we never had a "sag" problem even without any support from below.Hopefully we will fulfill our plans to head our faithful Lazy Daze northeast in a few weeks to see if we can get all the way to Santa Fe - wish us luck! ;->Virtual hugs,Judie 2 Likes
Re: Wandering eyes Reply #17 – August 16, 2016, 12:48:23 pm My wandering eye goes the other way toward a Sprinter Class B to simplify the camping life. No more towing, just get up and go. Negative, without a toad you have to drive it everywhere when you're on a trip. You must stow all items. I imagine earthquake putty becomes your friend when you drive one of these. Storage tanks are painfully small. I note some are coming out with European style cassette toilets and after first saying, "ewwww!" It started to take hold that this could be a simple way of doing things.We just don't spend a lot of time indoors when we are touring. Our 7 days in RMNP was a record for sitting in one spot and I have to say I had hitch-itch after 4 days. I like to drive and see what's around the next curve. YMMV. 3 Likes
Re: Wandering eyes Reply #18 – August 16, 2016, 01:51:27 pm It seems many of us have similar stories. We might leave LD, but most come back. I have! Started with a SOB Class C, when to a gas Class A, then to a RB LD, then to a DP, to a class B, then back to our beloved 2010 MId Bath. We love the simplicity, comfort, and capacities. The class B is a great idea, just too small for us. RV-ing is an excersize in trade offs. I work hard to avoid wandering eyes. Lar
Re: Wandering eyes Reply #19 – August 16, 2016, 04:45:27 pm Our wandering eyes seem to focus on upgrades to our MB of every shape, size and color. So many on our wish list that if i listed all of them in this post, most would consider me a bubble off-center! So now we have a multi-year plan of minor and major upgrades ... like ... or never mind. 2 Likes
Re: Wandering eyes Reply #20 – August 16, 2016, 09:26:17 pm For Winnebago my wandering eyes go to the Brave. Brave Overview | Winnebago RVsThe Brave reminds me of a Lazy Daze due to the retro styling. The yearly RV show I spent some time checking one out and I thought they were a pretty nice layout. Not sure how reliable but the fit and finish appeared pretty good. I'm sure we'll stay with our Lazy Daze for a long time. But 10 years from now a nice used Winnebago Brave would get my attention. 1 Likes
Re: Wandering eyes Reply #21 – August 24, 2016, 06:09:26 am The Brave has been discontinued by Winnebago. Behind these wandering eyes are a smart brain. My research has led to the indefinite suspension of our pursuit of a fancy MH. I've read one post too many regarding catastrophic failure of slide systems. The problems are so pervasive that it becomes difficult to justify a large investment in something with such a high failure rate. We've pulled our ads and will look at our LD with a new found respect. After reading my partner another slide failure horror story last night, he said " Why don't we just order a new LD?" That option is looking better and better all the time. 2 Likes
Re: Wandering eyes Reply #22 – August 24, 2016, 09:02:18 am Quote from: Todd - August 24, 2016, 06:09:26 am" Why don't we just order a new LD?" That option is looking better and better all the time.Did you see the new LD ad in the media section? It's a pdf file for a 2012 MB. For some reason the OP didn't post it in the classified section.
Re: Wandering eyes Reply #23 – August 24, 2016, 09:57:59 am Yes, it is a 24' ( we need a 27' min). Our rig is reliable and now I've made a deal with myself to see how many miles we can travel with her. We're at 114K and I see no reason we can't run another 5+ years.
Re: Wandering eyes Reply #24 – August 24, 2016, 09:59:47 am Quote from: Todd - August 24, 2016, 06:09:26 amThe Brave has been discontinued by Winnebago. Behind these wandering eyes are a smart brain. My research has led to the indefinite suspension of our pursuit of a fancy MH. I've read one post too many regarding catastrophic failure of slide systems. The problems are so pervasive that it becomes difficult to justify a large investment in something with such a high failure rate. We've pulled our ads and will look at our LD with a new found respect. After reading my partner another slide failure horror story last night, he said " Why don't we just order a new LD?" That option is looking better and better all the time.I guess the Newtons were on to something when they decided against putting slides in their motor homes? In addition to the failure rate of mechanical slides, the fact that you are cutting a large hole(s) in the side of the coach is a bit concerning to the structural integrity. I saw a photo on the RV Consumer Group's website years ago of a Lazy Daze that had rolled over and the coach's structure survived pretty well. I doubt that would have been the case with a slideout! 1 Likes
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