50 amp Service Question August 11, 2016, 09:29:13 pm I read the following question on another RV forum and I don't understand the recommendations from other people."I tripped the 30 amp breaker a couple of times at a campground and the guy on the next site told me to get an adapter to plug on the 50 amp side so It won't trip the breaker cause I won't use 50 amps. Will it mess up my camper with too much current?"A bit later, the OP received a couple of replies like the following:1. "Yep, very common, won't hurt a thing as your rigs breakers won't let it draw more than 30 amps."2. "Yes we use one any time the pedestal has a 50 amp service. You can overload the shore line as it is only 10 ga (for 30 amps) and the 50 amp uses a heavier 8 gauge wire. Once the electricity gets to the circuit breaker box, it will protect the rest of the coach from excessive current."Now it seems to me this is NOT a prudent practice. That is, if the RV is tripping the 30 amp circuit on the pedestal, the solution doesn't seem to be to connect to the 50 amp service with an adapter. And so I suppose I need a bit of electrical education if the recommendations as quoted above are a safe solution. And thanks in advance.
Re: 50 amp Service Question Reply #1 – August 12, 2016, 12:08:40 pm True that the main breaker in your power distribution box limits the draw to 30 amps. I would suspect a problem in the pedestal. But, I would also be looking at my surge guard readout to see how many amps were being used. You do have a built in surge guard don't you?
Re: 50 amp Service Question Reply #2 – August 12, 2016, 12:49:47 pm Quote from: Don Malpas - August 12, 2016, 12:08:40 pmYou do have a built in surge guard don't you? Hello Don and thanks for your reply to this post. Yes we have a surge guard thanks to the previous owner. It's installed behind the converter and the water pump. I wish it was installed someplace a bit more convenient. But that's a project way down the road.
Re: 50 amp Service Question Reply #3 – August 13, 2016, 10:37:05 am Assuming (we all know what assume means) plugging into a 50 amp service is no more dangerous then plugging your laptop into a modern home 100 to 150 amp service. The analogy falls apart real quick but think of the Amps are a swimming pool. If all you have is a straw it makes no different the capacity of the pool - 1 gallon or 10,000 gallons all you'll get is the amount that you can draw thru the straw. To me if a pedestal haves 'issues' I would not hookup to it no matter what the amp service. Sadly there is no relationship between the cost of a RV campground and the upkeep of the electrical services.
Re: 50 amp Service Question Reply #4 – August 14, 2016, 11:39:25 am Quote from: Traxless - August 11, 2016, 09:29:13 pmNow it seems to me this is NOT a prudent practice. That is, if the RV is tripping the 30 amp circuit on the pedestal, the solution doesn't seem to be to connect to the 50 amp service with an adapter. And so I suppose I need a bit of electrical education if the recommendations as quoted above are a safe solution. And thanks in advance.We have had this sort of thing happen, and without the luxury of being able to connect to 50A service. When circuit breakers get old, the internal springs weaken, contacts become pitted and heat up in use, etc. All these things will cause premature tripping, and it is not necessarily a sign of over-current. Connecting to 50A service still leaves you and your umbilical protected by the 30A breaker in your rig, which will still trip at anything above 30A - or less, if your breaker is in less than prime condition.Steve
Re: 50 amp Service Question Reply #5 – August 14, 2016, 11:46:57 am Piggy-backing off this question: our family took our 2002 LD 26.5' MB out for our first trip this summer. At a KOA at Devil's Tower, when the weather got hot, our surge protector kept shutting down power with the error code for "low voltage". Being newbies, we gave up on shore power and ran the generator for AC until later in the day, at which point shore power seemed fine. If we could have plugged into 50 watts, would that have helped? Has anyone encountered this situation before, and if so, what do you do?
Re: 50 amp Service Question Reply #6 – August 14, 2016, 12:21:24 pm Quote from: Tobey_day - August 14, 2016, 11:46:57 am If we could have plugged into 50 watts, would that have helped? Has anyone encountered this situation before, and if so, what do you do?Not a problem --- going from 30 to 50 is ok, going from 30 to 15 is a horse of a different color. Since most all LD's are 30 Amp service hooking up to a 15 Amp service can very easy overload the 15 Amp service causing all sort of problem to AC components.
Re: 50 amp Service Question Reply #7 – August 14, 2016, 12:43:37 pm Hi Tobey_Day. Your surge protector/ voltage monitor was doing it's job protecting your air conditioner from too low voltage, which could have ruined it. A lot depends on how low it was. 105 VAC is about as low as I would let the A/C run. Best to do what you did. Run your own generator. You helped reduce power drain from the parks wiring, so that all of the other people running their A/C's wouldn't ruin theirs. Hooking up to the 50 Amp service (not watts) would not have helped. RonB 1 Likes
Re: 50 amp Service Question Reply #8 – August 14, 2016, 01:30:29 pm Quote from: RonB - August 14, 2016, 12:43:37 pm Best to do what you did. Run your own generator. You helped reduce power drain from the parks wiring, so that all of the other people running their A/C's wouldn't ruin theirs. Hooking up to the 50 Amp service (not watts) would not have helped. In some cases, plugging in to the 50 amp service receptacle *might* help. Not because of the 50 amp capacity, but because it *should* be on a different circuit than the 30 amp. Perhaps the park's 30 amp main is overloaded but the 50 amp is not, and voltage droop may not be as great. It does depend on how the park is wired, though, and how many loads are on the circuits. Certainly worth a try. 2 Likes
Re: 50 amp Service Question Reply #9 – August 14, 2016, 04:56:07 pm Quote from: Michelle C - August 14, 2016, 01:30:29 pmIn some cases, plugging in to the 50 amp service receptacle *might* help. Not because of the 50 amp capacity, but because it *should* be on a different circuit than the 30 amp. Perhaps the park's 30 amp main is overloaded but the 50 amp is not, and voltage droop may not be as great. It does depend on how the park is wired, though, and how many loads are on the circuits. Certainly worth a try.A lot depends on how the park is wired and on how your 50A -> 30A adapter is wired. Most parks with 50/30/20A pedestals run a 4-wire 240V split phase circuit (much like what comes into most homes) to a series of power pedestals. The 50A outlets/breakers get wired to all 4 wires, the 30A and 20A outlets/breakers are wired to either hot side of the 240V circuit plus neutral and ground. If smart, they should alternate the hot connections so that half of the 30A outlets are on the L1 hot and the others on the L2 hot. This would tend to balance out the 30A loads plugged into their power system. If due to wiring or just by chance one side or other is under a very heavy draw (many A/Cs running) line losses will cause the voltage to drop. If your 50a -> 30A adapter happens to pick a lesser used side of the 50A circuit then it may help. It doesn't help that parks often run the smallest wiring they can and let outlet sockets get worn and corroded. When the voltage get low the AC motors in our A/Cs draw higher current and run hotter. If the voltage is low enough, this can cause damage. Be thankful that you have a power monitor that will warn you and disconnect from potentially harmful situations.Art 3 Likes
Re: 50 amp Service Question Reply #10 – August 14, 2016, 07:33:56 pm The thoughtful discussion and explanations have been very helpful. And I would not have thought to use the 50 amp service in lieu of the 30 amp service as explained by several folks. So now, I have a bit more knowledge that could come in handy. Thanks so much. 1 Likes
Re: 50 amp Service Question Reply #11 – August 14, 2016, 07:42:19 pm Me too Ed, and now I know that carrying that 50-30 amp dogbone will pay off! 2 Likes
Re: 50 amp Service Question Reply #13 – August 18, 2016, 12:40:27 pm Ed and Margee,"I tripped the 30 amp breaker a couple of times at a campground and the guy on the next site told me to get an adapter to plug on the 50 amp side so It won't trip the breaker cause I won't use 50 amps. Will it mess up my camper with too much current?"I'm late to comment, but your conclusion about this recommendation is correct. It may solve the immediate problem described, but ignores\dismisses the important question of why the breaker was tripping in the first place. Generally speaking, circuit breakers are intended to protect current carrying conductors\cords from current overloads and from overheating of conductors (insulation). I imagine there are plenty of campgrounds that still have the original breakers installed at the pedestals, and can also imagine most of them have been overloaded, reset, and just turned on and off so many times that they may be 'weak'. Nevertheless, they are a safety device, and when one trips, I believe it's a mistake to just assume it's a weak breaker. In my opinion, the careful and safe approach would be to determine why it tripped rather than just switching to a receptacle with a bigger breaker. This would include having a good understanding of how much load (amperage) one can safely impose on the 30 amp circuit between the coach and the pedestal.I wouldn't switch to a 50 amp receptacle if the 30 amp breaker were tripping at the pedestal until I was certain the reason the 30 amp breaker was tripping could be attributed to some defect at the pedestal rather than one of my components or because of demands I was imposing on the circuit. Even then, I'd be mindful that I now have a 50 amp breaker protecting? my 30 amp service cord.Experiences vary. This is my cautious approach to the problem.
Re: 50 amp Service Question Reply #14 – August 18, 2016, 05:36:35 pm Quote from: krmugn - August 18, 2016, 12:40:27 pmEd and Margee,"I tripped the 30 amp breaker a couple of times at a campground and the guy on the next site told me to get an adapter to plug on the 50 amp side so It won't trip the breaker cause I won't use 50 amps. Will it mess up my camper with too much current?"I'm late to comment, but your conclusion about this recommendation is correct. It may solve the immediate problem described, but ignores\dismisses the important question of why the breaker was tripping in the first place. Generally speaking, circuit breakers are intended to protect current carrying conductors\cords from current overloads and from overheating of conductors (insulation). I imagine there are plenty of campgrounds that still have the original breakers installed at the pedestals, and can also imagine most of them have been overloaded, reset, and just turned on and off so many times that they may be 'weak'. Nevertheless, they are a safety device, and when one trips, I believe it's a mistake to just assume it's a weak breaker. In my opinion, the careful and safe approach would be to determine why it tripped rather than just switching to a receptacle with a bigger breaker. This would include having a good understanding of how much load (amperage) one can safely impose on the 30 amp circuit between the coach and the pedestal.I wouldn't switch to a 50 amp receptacle if the 30 amp breaker were tripping at the pedestal until I was certain the reason the 30 amp breaker was tripping could be attributed to some defect at the pedestal rather than one of my components or because of demands I was imposing on the circuit. Even then, I'd be mindful that I now have a 50 amp breaker protecting? my 30 amp service cord.Experiences vary. This is my cautious approach to the problem.BillWhy not! Your rigs circuit breaker should protect you just fine..Garry
Re: 50 amp Service Question Reply #15 – August 19, 2016, 12:31:12 am Quote from: Garry Foster - August 18, 2016, 05:36:35 pmBillWhy not! Your rigs circuit breaker should protect you just fine..GarryDoes your 30A cord connect directly to a 30 A breaker? Or does it connect the transfer relay first? My SOB appears to connect directly to the shore cord, and the breakers are downstream of the transfer relay. 1 Likes
Re: 50 amp Service Question Reply #16 – August 19, 2016, 08:40:01 am Quote from: Eric Greenwell - August 19, 2016, 12:31:12 amDoes your 30A cord connect directly to a 30 A breaker? Or does it connect the transfer relay first? My SOB appears to connect directly to the shore cord, and the breakers are downstream of the transfer relay.Downstream of the transfer rellay like yours but there is nothing to be hurt unless it is already hurt. Most people wouldn't think twice about pulling into another site and hooking up to 30 amps again. Switching to the 50 amp outlet is basicallly the same thing. I pulled into a campground late one night self registered and had to go to three sites to find a good power pole, and it was dark, cold and rainy of course.
Re: 50 amp Service Question Reply #17 – August 19, 2016, 10:49:59 am As Erik pointed out, but with more detail, the breaker on the pedestal is there to protect the circuitry between the pedestal and the breaker box in the RV. If there is a problem in the RV before the breaker box, such as the Marinco plug, the wiring between the plug and the surge protector if any, the surge protector, the wiring from the surge protector to the ATS, or the ATS itself, a fault generating a partial short, overloading a 30 amp breaker, could cause a fire on a 50 amp breaker. Those things are all inside your coach and are unprotected by your breaker box. So, while the probably problem is the breaker in the pedestal, I would not be casual about plugging into a 50 amp breaker. If you can measure the amps flowing in your shore connection, then using a 50 amp breaker on the pedestal is reasonable, but I personally would prefer Garry's approach - take another site.Ken F in WY 2 Likes
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