Yes, Refrigerators Running On Gas May Go Out At High Altitude

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Yes, Refrigerators Running On Gas May Go Out At High Altitude

June 09, 2016, 11:19:57 am

I posted about this several years ago. I now know the answer. We have observed over three years while parked at over 7,800 the refrigerator will go off. It will relight, but will go out again in a few hours. It might be caused by not enough pressure. But, I had that checked. It might be a gas mix not right for the altitude. Nope, not that either. It's just the way things are. Most people never park at high altitude, so problem reports are almost nill. So if it happens to you, just consider it normal, and push the power off button and turn it back on.

Parked at 9,150. Yesterday's high was 77! 90 plus in the valley.

Re: Yes, Refrigerators Running On Gas May Go Out At High Altitude

Reply #1 – June 09, 2016, 02:58:29 pm

My owners manual, which I don't have handy, says to not run the ref on gas over 5,000'. Doesn't say why.
My experience is like yours. After years of observation, i've decided it's a function of both altitude and ambient temperature. Mine will run fine at the elevation you're talking about, in fact up to 9,000' or so, during the heat of the day but invaribly goes out at night. At higher elevations it tends to be cool at night so as long as you don't spend lots of time staring into the ref., things should be still at a safe temp. in the morning. I've gotten in the habit of just turning it off at night and back on about 10am or so. That way I'm not annoyed by the little Check light being on. Haven't poisoned any of us yet.
Ed

Re: Yes, Refrigerators Running On Gas May Go Out At High Altitude

Reply #2 – June 09, 2016, 04:18:44 pm

Interesting information, and something to research further! Perhaps others who also camp at high elevations can offer their experiences, too? How common (or uncommon) is this situation?

I've never had a problem with the refrigerators in either my previous motorhome or the LD failing to run on propane when camping at high elevations, i.e., 7-9000' (and occasionally higher). Neither the propane fill location, i.e., low or high elevations, nor the ambient temperatures have made a difference in the operation of the refrigerator. (Of course, now that I say that, it's almost sure to happen!

)

Re: Yes, Refrigerators Running On Gas May Go Out At High Altitude

Reply #3 – June 09, 2016, 05:28:07 pm

We spent time last summer, camped at 10,000', in Colorado.
The refrigerator worked fine, but cutting out, at altitude, is a common problem for many.
Make sure the flu is clean, the propane pressure is set correctly and the jet in the refrigerator clean.

Raising the propane operation pressure slightly, from 11"-H2O to 13"-H2O, may be of help. I check the propane pressure with an appliance operating, finding that you can get a false, low reading, if the regulator is set with nothing operating.
If you are not 100% confident about how to service the propane system, leave it to the pros.

The refrigerator's Jet slowly builds up a coating, from residual oils in the propane, which reduces flow and produces a smaller flame. To clean, soak the jet in solvent, alcohol works OK, acetone or lacquer thinner work better.
Do not poke the jet with anything metallic, this can damage the jet. A tooth brush is fine.
If available, blow the jet out with compressed air.

Accept the fact that there is less air, at high altitudes, and the refrigerator's cooling ability is lessened greatly.
An alternative is cover the roof with solar and switch to a marine-type 12-volt compressor refrigerator.

Larry

Re: Yes, Refrigerators Running On Gas May Go Out At High Altitude

Reply #4 – June 09, 2016, 05:42:16 pm

From the Dometic site.

OPERATING REFRIGERATOR AT HIGH
ALTITUDE
All gas appliances experience lowered ef ciency (or rat- ing) at high altitude This is a direct result of lower atmos- pheric pressure and oxygen levels, and is not a defect of the refrigerator.
Reduced cooling performance and burner outage may occur at altitudes higher than 5500 feet above sea level (while operating on LP gas). Always operate refrigerator on electric power at altitudes higher than 5500 fee

Re: Yes, Refrigerators Running On Gas May Go Out At High Altitude

Reply #5 – June 09, 2016, 05:50:10 pm

Quote from: Ed D. - June 09, 2016, 05:42:16 pm

From the Dometic site.
OPERATING REFRIGERATOR AT HIGH ALTITUDE
Always operate refrigerator on electric power at altitudes higher than 5500 feet.

It would be nice if every pine tree had a 30-amp plug.
5500' is much lower than where we are willing to camp, in the summer.
Just another excuse for building a poor refrigerator.

Larry

Re: Yes, Refrigerators Running On Gas May Go Out At High Altitude

Reply #6 – June 09, 2016, 05:56:53 pm

Quote from: Larry Wade - June 09, 2016, 05:50:10 pm

Just another excuse for building a poor refrigerator.

Larry

At higher elevations I set the temp control on 5. Three works lower down.
Plus I have one of these fans that helps. At least I think it does.

Dometic Refrig Fan w on Off Switch Increases Cooling Standard Model | eBay

Re: Yes, Refrigerators Running On Gas May Go Out At High Altitude

Reply #7 – June 09, 2016, 07:23:40 pm

Quote from: Ed D. - June 09, 2016, 05:56:53 pm

At higher elevations I set the temp control on 5. Three works lower down.
Plus I have one of these fans that helps. At least I think it does.

Dometic Refrig Fan w on Off Switch Increases Cooling Standard Model | eBay

Yes, this add-on fan really does work. And it's cheap and easy to install.
Chris

Re: Yes, Refrigerators Running On Gas May Go Out At High Altitude

Reply #8 – June 09, 2016, 07:36:10 pm

I love camping at high altitude and spend a lot of time doing that. 10,000 feet isn't unusual for me. In 8 years of full-timing, I've never had the frig go out at high altitude, actually. But I've been with people whose frig did go out and it was very un-fun for them! I remember one time a friend was losing a lot of sleep cuz that check light would come on often. He tried cleaning various parts, adjusting the flame, getting a new Dinosaur board, and then as I recall, he eventually tried changing out the board over the door. I think that finally did the trick. So I don't think it was actually an altitude problem in the end.

Re: Yes, Refrigerators Running On Gas May Go Out At High Altitude

Reply #9 – June 09, 2016, 08:01:09 pm

Quote from: Ed D. - June 09, 2016, 02:58:29 pm

My owners manual, which I don't have handy, says to not run the ref on gas over 5,000'. Doesn't say why.
My experience is like yours. After years of observation, i've decided it's a function of both altitude and ambient temperature. Mine will run fine at the elevation you're talking about, in fact up to 9,000' or so, during the heat of the day but invaribly goes out at night. At higher elevations it tends to be cool at night so as long as you don't spend lots of time staring into the ref., things should be still at a safe temp. in the morning. I've gotten in the habit of just turning it off at night and back on about 10am or so. That way I'm not annoyed by the little Check light being on. Haven't poisoned any of us yet.
Ed

hmmm this makes no sense. There is a humidity and temperature variable in the Atmospheric pressure formula. Generally day time temperatures are higher then nighttime temperatures. So during the day the air pressure would be lower (less pressure of O2) then the night time pressure (higher O2 pressure). BTW the percentage of O2 is the same as it is at sea level, about 21%. <smile> Of course this assumes that a front is not moving thru.

In my past life I was a Radiation Physicist. I did this calculation daily to calibrate our radiation machines.
Atmospheric pressure - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Re: Yes, Refrigerators Running On Gas May Go Out At High Altitude

Reply #10 – June 09, 2016, 08:19:17 pm

Quote from: G Plam - June 09, 2016, 08:01:09 pm

hmmm this makes no sense.

Don't have a clue about the science involved but it runs fine during the day and shuts down at night. I'm mostly like that as well.
Some people are night owls. Some are not.
Perhaps refrigerators are like that as well?

Ed

Re: Yes, Refrigerators Running On Gas May Go Out At High Altitude

Reply #11 – June 09, 2016, 08:26:48 pm

Ed. D. said, "Haven't poisoned any of us yet."

Had a great-great-aunt Ethlyn who was a WWI Army nurse, & apparently saw some pretty awful things before she returned to Princeton, MO; her sister Lois was know for being quite fastidious about everything hygiene-wise. The family story is that Aunt Ethlyn would periodically comment, "When Lois is sick, she goes to the DR & gets a shot of penicillin; when I'm sick, I just go to the refrigerator & eat mine." Aunt Ethlyn lived to almost 90 in the boonies of north Missouri with the healthcare available in 1963...she was a tough old bird!

Re: Yes, Refrigerators Running On Gas May Go Out At High Altitude

Reply #12 – June 10, 2016, 02:56:29 pm

Quote from: Jan Forseth - June 09, 2016, 07:36:10 pm

one time a friend was losing a lot of sleep cuz that check light would come on often. He tried cleaning various parts, adjusting the flame, getting a new Dinosaur board, and then as I recall, he eventually tried changing out the board over the door. I think that finally did the trick. So I don't think it was actually an altitude problem in the end.

Sounds like my experience with a ten-year-old 2003 Dometic RM-3662 fridge. I tried everything--new Dinosaur controller board, cleaning the orifice, adjusting the electrode gap ("use two quarters as a thickness gauge" is what the Dinosaur tech told me)... except that I didn't replace the "eyebrow board" (the one over the door). No matter what I did, the fridge just would not stay lit at elevations above about 9,000', and the problem was definitely altitude-related, as the ups and downs of our travel proved.

The culprit eventually turned out to be the thermocouple flame sensor. Although the one in my fridge tested within spec (a specified resistance when held in a propane flame), replacing it cured the problem. The replacement part cost a little over $25 from PPL Motorhomes.

My guess is that the flame was not quite as hot at high altitude, and the old thermocouple was probably marginal, so above 9,000 feet it just didn't get enough heat to trigger the controller board into keeping the gas on. With the new thermocouple, the fridge worked fine at elevations as high as 11,000 feet.

Re: Yes, Refrigerators Running On Gas May Go Out At High Altitude

Reply #13 – June 10, 2016, 06:59:28 pm

Still somewhat confused on this issue.

My ref. is just over a year old (2015 TK) and probably has somewhere about 120 days use. That would make most of the diagnosis being discussed rather remote. Not impossible, or course, but unlikely. At home, right at 5,000', the ref. runs perfectly when set on "3". That tells me that the basic gas system is within Dometic specs.

During out recent trip we were camped at elevations between 8,500' and 9,100'. Daytime temps were in the high 60's and at night it fell to close to freezing. The ref ran just fine, set on 5, from about 9am until perhaps 8pm and then it would go off. It would relight, but only run for perhaps 5 or 10 minutes before the Check light came on. Relight, go off, relight, go off. Since it was cold outside I got in the habit of just shutting it off after the 8pm Check light.

Practically speaking, it's not a big issue. The morning ref and freezer temps were well into the safe range.

Any thoughts or ideas?

Re: Yes, Refrigerators Running On Gas May Go Out At High Altitude

Reply #14 – June 11, 2016, 08:17:57 am

Andy said;
"The culprit eventually turned out to be the thermocouple flame sensor. Although the one in my fridge tested within spec (a specified resistance when held in a propane flame), replacing it cured the problem"

Andy.
Do you think it would be worth it to replace the thermocouple on a new ref. or wasted money?

Thanks
Ed

Re: Yes, Refrigerators Running On Gas May Go Out At High Altitude

Reply #15 – June 11, 2016, 08:42:12 am

The pilot flame won't be as strong or hot at the lower O2 levels you get with altitude. So the result is the thermocouple output will be lower. If it is to much lower your flame will go out. It will be more sensitive to wind pushing the flame around. In fact this is very similar to how the oxygen sensor cutoffs work in the propane heaters certified for inside use. The pilot is set st an angle and as the oxygen decreases the pilot starts going vertical and misses the thermocouple.
So I would suggust the thermocouple , its position or the orfice anything that could affect the thermocouple output in these altitude problems for the reffer.

Quote from: Andy Baird - June 10, 2016, 02:56:29 pm

Sounds like my experience with a ten-year-old 2003 Dometic RM-3662 fridge. I tried everything--new Dinosaur controller board, cleaning the orifice, adjusting the electrode gap ("use two quarters as a thickness gauge" is what the Dinosaur tech told me)... except that I didn't replace the "eyebrow board" (the one over the door). No matter what I did, the fridge just would not stay lit at elevations above about 9,000', and the problem was definitely altitude-related, as the ups and downs of our travel proved.

The culprit eventually turned out to be the thermocouple flame sensor. Although the one in my fridge tested within spec (a specified resistance when held in a propane flame), replacing it cured the problem. The replacement part cost a little over $25 from PPL Motorhomes.

My guess is that the flame was not quite as hot at high altitude, and the old thermocouple was probably marginal, so above 9,000 feet it just didn't get enough heat to trigger the controller board into keeping the gas on. With the new thermocouple, the fridge worked fine at elevations as high as 11,000 feet.

Re: Yes, Refrigerators Running On Gas May Go Out At High Altitude

Reply #16 – June 11, 2016, 10:19:06 am

Quote from: JCT - June 09, 2016, 04:18:44 pm

Interesting information, and something to research further! Perhaps others who also camp at high elevations can offer their experiences, too? How common (or uncommon) is this situation?

I don't know how common it is, but when we spent the summer touring the New Mexico State Parks, we boondocked overnight at La Manga Pass in Colorado on CO-17, which is at 10,230'. We had no problem with either our refrigerator or our water heater.

We also stayed at several New Mexico State Parks that were well over 5,000', some over 7,000', without any problems with either the refrigerator or water heater (all dry camping).

We're often at elevations over 5,000' -- if we couldn't run our refrigerator, or any other propane-powered appliance, at elevations over 5,000', we wouldn't be able to travel by RV!

Re: Yes, Refrigerators Running On Gas May Go Out At High Altitude

Reply #17 – June 11, 2016, 11:50:45 am

Quote from: Linda Hylton - June 11, 2016, 10:19:06 am

We're often at elevations over 5,000' -- if we couldn't run our refrigerator, or any other propane-powered appliance, at elevations over 5,000', we wouldn't be able to travel by RV!

In the West, this is very true, it is hard to camp in the mountains and not be at or over 6000'.

Larry
Parked at 6000', refrigerator set on 3 @36 degrees.

Re: Yes, Refrigerators Running On Gas May Go Out At High Altitude

Reply #18 – June 11, 2016, 02:37:22 pm

Quote from: Ed D. - June 11, 2016, 08:17:57 am

Do you think it would be worth it to replace the thermocouple on a new ref. or wasted money?

It seems unlikely that the thermocouple in a new refrigerator would cause problems, but if you've eliminated other possible causes, it might be worth a try. For twenty five bucks (assuming you do it yourself), you don't have much to lose.

Re: Yes, Refrigerators Running On Gas May Go Out At High Altitude

Reply #19 – June 11, 2016, 04:02:08 pm

WOW! This sure created a lot of traffic. We dropped down to 7,700 because Dorothy has problems at the same elevations as the refer does. Since then it's back to normal operation. Like Ed, we have learned to stay calm and just power it off and back on and it will run for several hours. If it goes out, no worries as the outside temp is not high enough to spoil food in only a few hours.

Re: Yes, Refrigerators Running On Gas May Go Out At High Altitude

Reply #20 – June 11, 2016, 04:07:29 pm

Quote from: Don Malpas - June 11, 2016, 04:02:08 pm

WOW! This sure created a lot of traffic. We dropped down to 7,700 because Dorothy has problems at the same elevations as the refer does. Since then it's back to normal operation. Like Ed, we have learned to stay calm and just power it off and back on and it will run for several hours.

Did both Dorothy and the refer return to normal operation?

Re: Yes, Refrigerators Running On Gas May Go Out At High Altitude

Reply #21 – June 12, 2016, 11:55:23 am

Yes, both are back to normal. The refer runs and she can breathe.
Bound for the Gatlinburg of Wyoming, Cody

Re: Yes, Refrigerators Running On Gas May Go Out At High Altitude

Reply #22 – June 12, 2016, 04:24:43 pm

And here is a prime example of the problem...

Years ago (when I was still able) I went deer hunting in the Sierra at about 7,000'. When I arrived at the Forest Service road where I needed to go I found that the snow plows had created a barrier across the road. So, out comes the shovel and a GAZ (Butane) lantern. The job was going pretty good but the longer I shoveled the dimmer the light became. Looking at my lantern I realized that it was hardly putting out any light at all. I got rid of that system post haste!

Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Cedar

Re: Yes, Refrigerators Running On Gas May Go Out At High Altitude

Reply #23 – June 14, 2016, 07:06:19 pm

When traveling in the mountain west, I often camp at higher elevations; many times over 8,000' and up to 11,000'. But, I don't ever recall having issues with the reefer; or other LPG appliances. It's good to read about other's problems and solutions though; things could change. My last camp was over 9,000'. I'm currently boondocked in the Rockies at 8,243', and the frig is cycling on and off normally, and maintaining temperature. Outside temps in low 70s hi, and low 40s lo.

5 year old Dometic RM3762 set at 3.

Re: Yes, Refrigerators Running On Gas May Go Out At High Altitude

Reply #24 – June 14, 2016, 08:54:26 pm

We've camped as high as 9,600' and never had the refrigerator go off in our '06. Guess we've been lucky.

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