Follow-ups Pd4600 boost mode Future Lazy Daze? August 23, 2014, 12:39:15 pm Yahoo Message Number: 148087Knowing that the E-450 chassis is nearly gone from production and the Chevy G-4500 is the last traditional cab chassis available I am wondering on what direction LaZy DaZe intends to move. Has anyone here heard anything from LaZy DaZe about their future plans?Will they adapt to the Sprinter, Transit, Promaster chassis?Will they just close their doors? Personally I would be excited to see LaZy DaZe come up with a whole new line built on the Ram Promaster. Even if they had to reduce the width to 7 1/2 ft. With its lower floor and front wheel drive, the Ducato/Promaster is the most used class-C and class-B chassis in Europe and Australia. I have seen foreign motorhomes on the Ducato/Promaster that even have dual rear wheels in tandem for weight management.Who could we contact at LaZy DaZe to find out?
Re: Future Lazy Daze? Reply #1 – August 23, 2014, 01:24:43 pm Yahoo Message Number: 148088Ford has pricing listed thru 2015.fordhttp://media.motionfuze.com/index.cfm/type/6/img/7867BE434D70A1AEC2F9ACB7C32 C0A0FAE/2015 Ford E-450 Cutaway Chassishttp://www.fullerton.com/new/index.cfm/page/vehicles/action/veh/year/2015/m ake/ford/model/e-450_cutaway/ADID/USC50FOH431A0/> 2015 Ford E-450 Cutaway SD Chassis 158" WB DRW Basehttp://www.fullerton.com/new/index.cfm/page/vehicles/action/veh/year/2015/m ake/ford/model/e-450_cutaway/ADID/USC50FOH431A0/> $30,560http://www.fullerton.com/new/index.cfm/page/vehicles/action/veh/year/2015/m ake/ford/model/e-450_cutaway/ADID/USC50FOH432A0/> 2015 Ford E-450 Cutaway SD Chassis 176" WB DRW Basehttp://www.fullerton.com/new/index.cfm/page/vehicles/action/veh/year/2015/m ake/ford/model/e-450_cutaway/ADID/USC50FOH432A0/> $31,290 2015 Ford E-450 Cutaway SD Chassis 158 in. WB DRW Base 1311-OEM Exterior 3/4 Front White BackgroundWouldn't be surprised if they continue to produce them after 2015, as they're very popular and a good seller.Neal--- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Future Lazy Daze? Reply #2 – August 23, 2014, 01:27:02 pm Yahoo Message Number: 148089Why not the f450 or f550 chassis Tow capability increase Optional future dieselSome of the sob are already using as option for 2014Johnny B
Re: Future Lazy Daze? Reply #3 – August 23, 2014, 01:42:46 pm Yahoo Message Number: 148090Agreed, would love to have F450/550 chassis with diesel, esp for 31' IB. Did look at Born Free one similar to IB using F550 and it cost bit over $200k! I love my 2004 23.5' LD FD towing 2014 24' Lance 1995 travel trailer. But my next one would be IB (or similar) with Jeep Wrangler for late spring/summer/early fall traveling.Jamie
Re: Future Lazy Daze? Reply #4 – August 23, 2014, 02:00:18 pm Yahoo Message Number: 148091I think the likely switch would be to the F450 and F550 chassis. Logic dictates that it would be easier for the factory to adapt to a larger chassis than retooling to the smaller, lighter, more weight restrictive chassis. The design principles and materials that the factory has built their reputation on would not fit the smaller chassis.Gary
Re: Future Lazy Daze? Reply #5 – August 23, 2014, 04:03:45 pm Yahoo Message Number: 148092I haven't heard or read anything about Ford discontinuing the E450 cutaway *motorhome chassis*, at least through next year. If anyone has definitive information on the E450's imminent demise, please post.The top gvwr of the Ram Prostar (SRW cutaway) is 9350 pounds; this is even less than the MB Sprinter at 11300. The Ford Transit (not the "Connect") tops at 10360. The Ford E450 is 14050 (V-8) or 14500 (V-10).If Lazy Daze - and every other manufacturer who uses the Ford cutaway chassis as a platform for their class C and/or "B+" vehicles - is left without the option of the E450, I agree with other posters that the logical choice of a viable substitute would be Ford's F series, i.e., the F-450, F-550, and F-650. Some manufacturers are already using F series platforms; I like this one: http://www.earthroamer.com ;-)As ever, YMMV.Joan
Re: [LD] Re: Future Lazy Daze? Reply #6 – August 23, 2014, 04:21:58 pm Yahoo Message Number: 148094I'm looking at the prices of their USED vehicles...I don't even want to know what a NEW one would cost!!!But it sure is one cool RV!Linda HyltonQuoteI like this one: EarthRoamer ;-)
Re: Future Lazy Daze? Reply #7 – August 23, 2014, 04:34:14 pm Yahoo Message Number: 148095http://earthroamer.com/xv-lt/pricing/It may be advisable to have a resuscitator handy.... ;-)Joan
Re: Future Lazy Daze? Reply #8 – August 26, 2014, 02:24:15 am Yahoo Message Number: 148157A few thoughts on this. Ford will most likely continue production of the E450 for a while, wide-body Class-Cs continue to be popular. Chevy will most likely continue the 4500 chassis, being popular in rental RV fleets. Sprinter-type RVs have been domestically produced for several years now but the majority of new RV buyers want more room, not less. Americans are big people. Our roads are wide.l The demand for wide-body van cutaway will continue for both RV and utility uses. Right now, Ford has no development cost with the E450, so why not keep building it as long as it sells? Eventually, someone will build an updated wide-body cutaway with a turbo-diesel that increases the mileage, with an increase in power. Ford doesn't even bother to offer the cutaways with the more powerful 3-valve V-10 used in their Class-A chassis.As for using a F450 or F550, either is a possibility if you don't mind the added 2-3' of overall length, for a given floor plan . I doubt LD will make a move to a different chassis until the future is clearer or forced into it. They have lost a lot of money developing new models, only to have the new chassis dropped from production.Larry
Re: Future Lazy Daze? Reply #9 – August 26, 2014, 10:35:19 am Yahoo Message Number: 148162F450/F550 would be good fit for the 31 as it is already pretty long and adding 2-3 feet does not make much difference. In any shape or form, F450/550 with turbo Diesel engine (600 or so foot pounds of torque!) in a 31 would be great! 65 gallon fuel tank, I would say average MPG would be around 10 or so with diesel even towing a Jeep. I think most buyer who want 31 would pick F series chassis w diesel option over E450.Jamie
progressive dynammics converter question Reply #10 – August 26, 2014, 11:16:53 am Yahoo Message Number: 148164HiBoth my AGM batteries recently failed under suspicious circumstances. I replaced the batteries and my previous 3-stage charger as well.I am not sure my charger caused the failure of the batteries, (they were 8 years old), but I did not want to take any chances with $600 worth of new batteries.I installed a Progressive Dynamics PD4655, 55Amp unit. Is there anyone here who has experience with this charger? My question is this.After 24 hours on shore power, the battery voltage is still 13.6 V. PD says after a period of time (unspecified), the charger should transition into the storage mode, where the battery voltage will drop to 13.2 V, which they call the storage mode. How long does this take?Tom, 23.5 TK, Whidbey Island, WA sunny and mid-seventies this morning
Re: progressive dynammics converter question Reply #11 – August 26, 2014, 11:41:20 am Yahoo Message Number: 148170TomI can't give a time frame but I do recall I had the same concern you are expressing. It will float eventually. I'm not a battery guru, but I like the 4655 model.Good luck
Re: progressive dynammics converter question Reply #12 – August 26, 2014, 11:50:30 am Yahoo Message Number: 148171I installed a PD 9270, but I assume they all have similar charge algorithms. Mine will also often stay in absorption for a long time before switching over to float mode (but I don't have AGMs to worry about). Any idea what your background 12V current load is? I've assumed that the PD stays at the absorption charge voltage until the current drops below some threshold, then will drop down to the float voltage. This works fine if the battery is the only thing connected to the charger. Throw in some loads like the fridge, propane detector, radio, etc. and the charger will continue to source current that isn't going into the battery, possibly preventing it from entering float mode. I don't have any documentation from PD about their charge algorithms, but this seems like a possible scenario (and I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night!) Someone could experiment with disconnecting as much of the background load as possible, but that could be a big P.I.T.A. for some of the hardwired devices.HTH, Art
Re: progressive dynammics converter question Reply #13 – August 26, 2014, 11:52:32 am Yahoo Message Number: 148172The problem with MOST chargers is that the batteries are never really satisfied at 13.6v and are still wanting more, so the charger supplies it. Lifeline AGM Batteries Charging Procedure
Re: progressive dynammics converter question Reply #14 – August 26, 2014, 12:37:19 pm Yahoo Message Number: 148173Thanks ArtWell.......as long as you slept at HIE last night...........My current 12 V load is 200mA and has been since I started the charge. It would be easy enough to pull fuses until it is zero I suppose, but one would expect PD's charging algorithm to operate under real user conditions. Wouldn't one?TomI installed a PD 9270, but I assume they all have similar charge algorithms. Mine will also often stay in absorption for a long time before switching over to float mode (but I don't have AGMs to worry about). Any idea what your background 12V current load is? I've assumed that the PD stays at the absorption charge voltage until the current drops below some threshold, then will drop down to the float voltage. This works fine if the battery is the only thing connected to the charger. Throw in some loads like the fridge, propane detector, radio, etc. and the charger will continue to source current that isn't going into the battery, possibly preventing it from entering float mode. I don't have any documentation from PD about their charge algorithms, but this seems like a possible scenario (and I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night!)
Re: progressive dynammics converter question Reply #15 – August 26, 2014, 12:52:23 pm Yahoo Message Number: 148174Looking on the web for PD charging algorithms didn't turn up much, but I found the following in a discussion about a smaller PD unit used in marine applications.Page:10 NORMAL MODE: In the normal mode the output voltage is set at 13.9 volts DC. This voltage provides good charging rates and low water usage. BOOST MODE: If the INTELI-POWER MARINE converter/charger senses the battery voltage has dropped below a preset level, the system automatically switches into the Boost Mode. In this mode the charge voltage is increased to 14.4 volts for a period of approximately 4 hours. TRICKLE MODE: When the INTELI-POWER MARINE converter/charger senses that there has been no significant battery usage for a period of approximately 30 hours the charge voltage is automatically reduced to 13.2 volts DC for minimal water usage until the unit senses usage of the electrical system. STORAGE/EQUALIZATION MODE: When the charger is in the Storage Mode, the microprocessor automatically equalizes the battery by increasing the charging voltage to 14.4 volts for 15 minutes every 21 hours. This causes the battery to gas for a short time and re-mixes the electrolyte...Art
Re: progressive dynammics converter question Reply #16 – August 26, 2014, 01:07:42 pm Yahoo Message Number: 148178Another followup...Looking at a PD charge graph, it certainly looks like they hold the 13.6V absorption/acceptance voltage for a period of 30 hours if no other current load is detected. It would be interesting to leave things alone for a minimum of 30 or more hours and see if it changes charging state. Does your charger also pop in to equalization mode periodically?Art
Re: progressive dynammics converter question Reply #17 – August 26, 2014, 01:30:56 pm Yahoo Message Number: 148181Thanks ArtI will leave it sit longer and keep my eye on it.BTW, I just now got off the phone with Randy at bestconverter dot com, and he told me that the charger must be inactive in the 13.6 volt mode for 48 hours before it will transition to storage mode.I have seen no sign of equalization and the PD4600 series operation guide does not mention it.BTW, one thing strange. The PD 4600 have a built-in charge wizard which automatically determines which charging mode is best suited to recharge or maintain optimum battery conditions, with a wizard mode button located on the DC fuse panel allowing for manual override. Later the manual states that the manual button is provided to allow the user to temporarily override the converter (not recommended). What the........?TomAnother followup...Looking at a PD charge graph, it certainly looks like they hold the 13.6V absorption/acceptance voltage for a period of 30 hours if no other current load is detected. It would be interesting to leave things alone for a minimum of 30 or more hours and see if it changes charging state. Does your charger also pop in to equalization mode periodically?Art
Re: progressive dynammics converter question Reply #18 – August 26, 2014, 02:25:07 pm Yahoo Message Number: 148184Hi Tom,I have the same model converter and it never goes into float mode. I called BestConverter about this problem a couple of weeks after installation and was told that there was likely a battery drain that prevented it from entering float mode. They recommended that I pull the main coach fuses and see what happens. After pulling the fuses, It went into float mode after a couple of days. Obviously removing the main fuses disconnected the battery drain.So I have a battery drain somewhere (I have no idea where ) that prevents float mode. Wondering if anyone has any idea where the battery drain might be located (this is with NOTHING on). Link 10 indicates there is a discharge at night about .1 amps. That's not much of a drain.I seldom see my Link 10 blinking the 4th green light, which tells me that the battery is full up. I suppose if I looked when the 4th light is blinking, I might see float mode (never did this, I never said I was on the ball). 4th light blinking only occurs with shore power and even then, not always (). I have 300 watts of solar, MorningStar MPPT controller and that doesn't produce the 4th light blinking mode on the Link 10.Bob
Re: progressive dynammics converter question Reply #19 – August 26, 2014, 02:41:50 pm Yahoo Message Number: 148185Randy seems to have confirmed my suspicion about a long time interval.I also looked in the 4600 series installation and operation manual and did not see a reference. But on the PD website for the 4600 series they DO indicate that equalization happens. This could be just a left over from cut-and-paste on their web pages from the 9100/9200 series. It supposedly only happens for 15 min. every 21 hrs., so it might be hard to catch. The remote charge wizard pendant for my 9270 also has the button to override the current mode, but I rarely do anything with it. And It doesn't seem like the button will put it into equalize mode.Art
Re: progressive dynammics converter question Reply #20 – August 26, 2014, 03:01:54 pm Yahoo Message Number: 148187There are usually several things connected to the 12V system even when everything is "off". Things like the control boards in the fridge and water heater, the radio, CB (if you have one), propane detector, etc. Like yours, mine is in the 0.1-0.2 A range. Only by pulling enough fuses can you completely remove those. I have not found any specification as to how much current load will prevent the PD converters from going into float, or how much and long of a temporary current load (like switching on a light or fan) will drop the converter out of float/storage mode. It also takes my Link 10 a LONG time before it starts flashing to indicate a full charge. Remember that as the battery gets closer to full charge, it accepts increasingly less current. This means getting the last few percent of charge into the battery takes a long time. Many people operate their batteries between about 50% and 90% while camping. As I recall, the Link 10 has configurable thresholds for voltage and current to decide the batteries are charged. Do you happen to know where yours is set?Art
Re: progressive dynammics converter question Reply #21 – August 26, 2014, 03:21:57 pm Yahoo Message Number: 148188It is easy to find the drain. I went through and checked every fuse. Turn off every thing that you can think of. Remove one fuse at a time. With a multi meter set to amps; put the probles on the fuse contacts and you should show "0". If there is a draw it will show. Do each fuse one at a time. I had one that showed a draw and larger than what is considered parasitic (30-50 mil-amp) It was the antenna buster. Turned it off and there was no draw. I had no draw on all fuses. NO PARASITIC DRAW. Your drain could be the frig or HWT is on. They have computer boards. The radio on some of the LD campers has its draw off the MH not the starting battery under the hood. The radio has 2 hot leads. The radio as a whole and the memerory for stations and other things. LD has wiring for a CB. I do not know where it comes off; MH or engine bat. But it is VERY easy to pull each fuse one at a time and test. 30 minutes tops. The fuses are all listed for what they serve.
Re: progressive dynammics converter question Reply #22 – August 26, 2014, 03:43:56 pm Yahoo Message Number: 148190Hi,I'm going to pull the individual fuses (one at a time) and see what happens. At least that will tell me what circuit, or circuits are involved.Thanks for the idea, Bob
Re: progressive dynammics converter question Reply #23 – August 26, 2014, 04:04:03 pm Yahoo Message Number: 148194Hi Art,Thanks for the good info in your reply.I'm fairly confident that my Link 10 is configured correctly for my Lifeline batteries. I've gone through the configuration menu many times, checking my selections.Bob
Re: progressive dynammics converter question Reply #24 – August 26, 2014, 06:12:51 pm Yahoo Message Number: 148196I don't have a Link 10, but an XBM which is just a later model of Link 10 (I think). It shows 100% charge and is blinking, even though the charger is in the 13.6 V mode. I'll keep checking to see if it goes into storage mode at some point. But perhaps it never will as long as there is a small load when everything is turned off. I think everyone has pretty much the same thing going on. I don't believe it will hurt the batteries to be on 13.6 V.The big question is, is the current for this small load coming from the battery or the charger? Who knows? Some of it, at least, is being provided by the charger, so that the charger thinks that battery is still charging and not yet ready for the 13.2 V mode.A 2 ma quiescent load is not much, that's true. But it is 4.8 AH per day. A month of that and your batteries are down to about 40% state of charge. Beyond that, the batteries may risk damage if that happens more that a few times.There are usually several things connected to the 12V system even when everything is "off". Things like the control boards in the fridge and water heater, the radio, CB (if you have one), propane detector, etc. Like yours, mine is in the 0.1-0.2 A range. Only by pulling enough fuses can you completely remove those. I have not found any specification as to how much current load will prevent the PD converters from going into float, or how much and long of a temporary current load (like switching on a light or fan) will drop the converter out of float/storage mode. It also takes my Link 10 a LONG time before it starts flashing to indicate a full charge. Remember that as the battery gets closer to full charge, it accepts increasingly less current. This means getting the last few percent of charge into the battery takes a long time. Many people operate their batteries between about 50% and 90% while camping. As I recall, the Link 10 has configurable thresholds for voltage and current to decide the batteries are charged. Do you happen to know where yours is set?Art
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