Those of you that have been thinking about purchasing Battleborn batteries, Amazon Prime members can get a good price for them right now:
https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Born-Batteries-Lithium-Ion-LiFePO4/dp/B06XX197GJ/ref=pd_ci_mcx_mh_mcx_views_0?pd_rd_w=ana1t&content-id=amzn1.sym.bb21fc54-1dd8-448e-92bb-2ddce187f4ac%3Aamzn1.symc.40e6a10e-cbc4-4fa5-81e3-4435ff64d03b&pf_rd_p=bb21fc54-1dd8-448e-92bb-2ddce187f4ac&pf_rd_r=75KM496WAZH541KBD4BH&pd_rd_wg=5r387&pd_rd_r=79998e4e-1870-4e6b-9209-ff3e5f6740a7&pd_rd_i=B06XX197GJ
Thanks for the tip, Greg. But in my opinion, $740 for a 100 amp-hour battery with not-too-impressive internal construction, a plastic case, unheated, and without Bluetooth is no bargain. By comparison, $325 will get you a 100 Ah SOK battery (https://www.us.sokbattery.com/product-page/sok-12v100ah-lifepo4-battery) in a metal case, with built-in heater, and Bluetooth.
Battle Born has been coasting on its reputation for way too long. Their batteries are feature-poor, cheaply built, and priced at twice what they're worth. I can't think of any reason to buy one now.
Thanks for the tip, Greg. But in my opinion, $740 for a 100 amp-hour battery with not-too-impressive internal construction, a plastic case, unheated, and without Bluetooth is no bargain. By comparison, $325 will get you a 100 Ah SOK battery (https://www.us.sokbattery.com/product-page/sok-12v100ah-lifepo4-battery) in a metal case, with built-in heater, and Bluetooth.
Battle Born has been coasting on its reputation for way too long. Their batteries are feature-poor, cheaply built, and priced at twice what they're worth. I can't think of any reason to buy one now.
Yeah, I've been hearing those rumblings lately. Are the SOK's similar in size to the stock AGM's (direct swap)?
Andy is absolutely correct with his observation. For less than double that 100AH price, you can get the 200AH model
Amazon.com: SOK Battery 12V 206Ah Heated LiFePO4 Metal Box SK12V206H :... (https://www.amazon.com/SOK-Battery-Heated-LiFePO4-SK12V206H/dp/B0C76JF6BM) $640, that I have. Two of these fit easily in the standard battery box. (I paid over $1k each without the bluetooth, internal heater or UL approval. 2 years ago.)
400AH without mechanical disruption of my storage areas isn't the issue with your larger MB, but still a consideration. That's about 5 KW hours of power, down to 10% without harming the battery. RonB
edited after I saw Greg's question: About the same size each, a little taller, like a Trojan T-145. The size specs are accurate...10.83 X 7.78 X 11.22" but don't count the posts IIRC, which are about 1.3" taller.
One thing I forgot to mention about Battle Born: their "tab" terminals are a pain. With standard battery posts, you can run a cable flat across the top of the battery, minimizing cable length when connecting in parallel. But with BB, the cable must either exit to the side in a big loop, or to the top in a big loop, assuming you have several inches of extra vertical clearance. It's a bad design.
If you don't need the heater, but like the idea of Bluetooth, what is the consensus of the best buy these days? The prices seem to vary so much, hard to make a decision but time to replace my old lead acid.
My buddy put in Vestwood batteries out of China.
It's a big company that started with larger sizes and the added automotive sizes.
He got them on Amazon, 200 ah hour for $520. No heaters but Bluetooth and a decent app.
So far, after a year they have been very reliable and hold a charge quite well. He has 4 of them.
When I need batteries next, it only makes sense to go lithium, and I will probably get the ones sized to fit my battery tray
I seem to get about 8 years from my Trojan T 105's, which I'm happy with.
Yes, I agree it only makes sense to go lithium. I got eight good years out of my Costco GC-2's, but it's time to change. I just can't believe the price differences between choices. I would like to find ones similar to the size as the GC2's, 100 AH to make it easy to replace the ones I have at a reasonable price. Prices seem to range from $160 to $800....why?
Hi Rich; The metal case S.O.K. 206 is very close to the GC2 format. W of GC2 7.19", SOK 7.87" about 3/4" wider
H of GC2 10.32", SOK 10.7" about .4" taller, sok another 1 inch taller for battery posts, ring terminal and bolt.
L of GC2 11.00" SOK 11.02" essentially the same.
weight of BB 100AH 32# SOK 206AH 48 # Wet Lead acid 65#
The SOK is a 10ga. steel case, not water tight, but can be disassembled with Phillips screws. Voids the warranty, but allows repair or replacement of cells inside. Good quality handles with blind threaded inserts in case, Removal of handles doesn't void warranty or drop nuts inside. (sealed). Does allow it to be mounted on end. The case is more fireproof, but not as insulated or waterproof as plastic cases. A bead of sealant might fix that. I'm sure there is a way for pressure to equalize at altitude.
LiF are 12V batteries (12.8-13.4v). You only need one to replace 6 volt wet lead acid. You get more usable power. With a trailer you won't be starting a generator, the big current load. To run a 2kw inverter for microwave use, hair dryer, etc. in the 120Amp range two batteries would be best. (in parallel) No adding water needed.
I would hope that higher cost gets you more than just profit margin for the seller. Better warranty? More internal gadgets: internal heater, blue tooth, UL listing? RonB
It's funny how things change over time. A few years ago, Battleborn was the gold standard. Now it's the red-headed stepchild (no offense to red-headed stepchildren intended). ;) Looks like China is winning the lithium battery battle . . .
It's funny how things change over time. A few years ago, Battleborn was the gold standard. Now it's the red-headed stepchild (no offense to red-headed stepchildren intended). ;) Looks like China is winning the lithium battery battle . . .
Battleborn buys the lithium cells from China and assembles them here.
I try to buy American, but in this case, the cost is three times the going rate, and you are still getting a mostly Chinese product.
Years ago, Battleborn sold state-of-the-art batteries, since then, they have remained stagnant with no changes except for rising prices. Even inexpensive lithium batteries now include Bluetooth.
12V 100Ah Bluetooth Lithium Deep Cycle Battery – LiTime-US (https://www.litime.com/products/12v-100ah-group-24-smart-bluetooth)
Larry
My son and I have been talking some about converting to Lithium batteries. I went to the Li Time site and they
are saying not to use as a starting battery. If that is really the case how are you guys starting the generator if needed? Is internal heating an absolute must? Thanks,
Jon
If that is really the case how are you guys starting the generator if needed? Is internal heating an absolute must?
I have LiTimes. No problem starting the generator. Someone more knowledgeable can address the necessity of heating.
jor
When the term “starting battery” is used, it is usually referring to starting the large chassis engine, not the small generator engine. Even one (typically 100 A-Hr) Lithium battery is just fine for starting the generator.
Heating is worthwhile if the batteries themselves will be below freezing when you try to charge them. If the battery temperatures are warmed by being near or inside the occupied (heated) coach, they may stay well above freezing even if the outside temp is well below freezing. On the other hand, If the coach is not in use, then everything is at the same temp as outside, and a battery maintainer or solar panels would supply charging current, then heated would be appropriate. You wouldn’t want to have heated batteries with heaters enabled without charging, because the heaters draw some modest power from the battery and freezing temps would eventually run them down.
My son and I have been talking some about converting to Lithium batteries. I went to the Li Time site and they
are saying not to use as a starting battery. If that is really the case how are you guys starting the generator if needed? Is internal heating an absolute must? Thanks,
Two 100-amp/hour lithiums will crank the V10 easily; the generator is a snap.
Battery heaters are nice if living in a cold climate but have the discharging issue as mentioned. Since your signature shows you reside in Montana, it could be helpful.
The heaters can be adjusted to several heating modes with some Bluetooth-equipped batteries. With shore power, the batteries will stay warm and fully charged.
For batteries without heaters, heating mats can be installed later, using RV holding tank heaters. These heaters are available in 120-VAC and 12-Volt versions.
Larry
I have LiTimes. No problem starting the generator. Someone more knowledgeable can address the necessity of heating.
jor
I also saw the LiTimes statement "Do not use as a starting battery", but they don't explain why. Maybe they just don't want it mounted in the engine compartment with it's high temperatures? Or maybe they are concerned the battery you choose might have BMS that shuts of the battery before the engine starts, as I think is likely with 100A BMS on some of the RV batteriies.
Eric G
For all practical purposes, Lithium batteries are a commodity. The 'real' difference is the BMS (https://climatebiz.com/lifepo4-bms/). Most all BMS's are made in China. Unless you construct the battery yourself you are depending on/trusting the manufacturer has pick the best BMS for you. Bottom line the warranty is your only backstop.
glen
Greg,
Thanks for starting this thread when you did. My LD is in Texas and I am home in Cali. My son called last night from Texas and said the house lights (LD) seemed dim. I asked him the voltage and he told me 7 volts. I just about fell over. He runs the geni every couple weeks for a couple hours just to exercise everything. Of course the geni wont start on 7. I had him start the engine to get enough power to start the geni and get some juice back in the batteries. And this morning I had him pull it out in the sun and it seems to be bringing in some solar. These are the original batteries from 2019 when I got the rig and they have served me well. My question is are they toast or has anyone ever recovered from that low of a voltage. I am going to Texas tomorrow and will be shopping for batteries likely recommended by all the great minds on this site.
Many Many thanks in advance,
Randy
You're welcome, Randy! I'm getting near end of life on my 2017 batteries so am looking at replacing them soon, as well. I've been vacillating between replacing the AGM's with lithium or like kind.
I'm certainly no expert but I'm thinking that your batteries (AGM, I assume) went well below 50% and are toast at this point but let's hear from some of our electrical gurus!
Hi Greg and Randy; Not 'toast' but not good either. Running the generator for a few hours, isn't a good policy really. Lead acid batteries charge very slowly, the power used to start the generator probably isn't replaced during even a few hours, running the generator. The AGM batteries should be charging daily with your built in solar. If not, leaving the rig plugged in maybe just a few hours a day, should keep them topped off. Mike Coachman or WhiteElk had a problem with the built-in converter over charging the AGM batteries, if left on all the time. Batteries depend on chemical conversion real time to make electricity, and cold temperatures slow down those reactions. So cold batteries (Texas?) may have prevented proper charging, or also damage to the batteries. Your new rigs would benefit from LiF conversion, especially if a large outlay to buy new AGM's is in the near future. RonB
"leaving the rig plugged in maybe just a few hours a day, should keep them topped off."
(Which is easily accomplished with a $15 plug-in timer :-)
Thanks Gents,
Great ideas. Thanks Andy for the timer suggestion. I am still trying to find an electrician to run service to my shop. I plan on putting RV receptacles and now timers :) in the near future. And thanks again Greg and Ron for planting the LiF idea seed. But for my near term needs I may just replace the AGM's. I went looking for my LD manual and realized I must have packed it and its in a box somewhere in Texas. I was hoping the battery specs are in there. There is a camping world in Denton which is fairly close to our house. I am not a fan of CW though. So I may seek out other battery outlets. I like Greg use to thing Battleborn is the standard for this application but now you guys have me wondering. Any good or bad experience is sure appreciated in my probable hunt for batteries.
Randy
Hi Randy, markings are on the old batteries if you go that route. My choice is Costco, but Sams Club I've heard are good. The AGM's are not vented, so don't involve acid precautions. Take pictures of how they are installed; mark the wires, take photos. (cell phones are great) Don't let the red wires touch anything except the terminals they go to. I use blue painters tape to insulate them while doing the procedure. I use scotchbrite and alcohol to clean the terminals on the new batteries. The ends of the cables also need cleaning. Lifting the 65# for each battery is the hard part.
The battery sizes should be 'GC2' (golf cart 2). I don't need those but I'm pretty sure Costco had them on the shelf.
Your batteries may be serviceable for now. If you are storing the motorhome until spring, it would make sense to not replace them until you were ready to use the motorhome. Newer batteries, newer stock, don't have to take care of them until it warms up. RonB
There is a camping world in Denton which is fairly close to our house. I am not a fan of CW though. So I may seek out other battery outlets.
I wouldn't do Camping World for batteries. Find a retailer who deals in lots of batteries or can get fresh stock from a local distributor.
RonB mentions Sam's Club, and of course there's one right there in Rayzor Ranch. With all the golf carts at Robson, I'd think they keep some in stock.
Another alternative, if they're still around, might be Danny's RV off McKinney. They'd have to get them from a local warehouse, but they did the batteries in our Foretravel twice at very good prices (we ran Deka Intimidators for house and Optima Blue Top for chassis).
Thanks Michelle and Ron,
Much appreciated information. :) I will be able to at least get an idea where to get them from when I buy them.
Again,
Thanks much and I will try to get over to Lake Ray Roberts and check out the marina and get an update on how the area is rebuilding.
Randy
Randy, I’ve been researching prices on Lifeline batteries and this is the best price I’ve found to date. Free shipping to my location in California but your mileage may vary! Just in case you go that route:
Lifeline - Lifeline GPL-4CT 6 Volt Deep Cycle AGM Battery (https://www.powerstridebattery.com/lifeline-gpl-4c-6volt-deep-cycle-agm-battery)
Commercial, Industrial, Golf, RV, Marine Batteries - About Us (https://www.powerstridebattery.com/about-us/)
Randy, I’ve been researching prices on Lifeline batteries and this is the best price I’ve found to date. Free shipping to my location in California but your mileage may vary! Just in case you go that route:
Lifeline - Lifeline GPL-4CT 6 Volt Deep Cycle AGM Battery (https://www.powerstridebattery.com/lifeline-gpl-4c-6volt-deep-cycle-agm-battery)
We used those in our LTV. Find A Dealer - Lifeline Batteries (https://lifelinebatteries.com/find-a-dealer/) Closest to Denton is Platinum Coach in Lewisville
I think for the price i would switch over to the Li-Time 12.8 100ah battery and get two at $229.99.
Jody
Thanks again for that info. My son works in Lewisville. I can have him swing by and get some batteries and some BBQ from Sullivans. You all can come over and visit :) I'll supply dinner.
Randy
Thanks again for that info. My son works in Lewisville. I can have him swing by and get some batteries and some BBQ from Sullivans. You all can come over and visit :) I'll supply dinner.
Randy
Wish we could - we moved from Denton to east TN 6 years ago :D (miss 407BBQ)
I mentioned 407 BBQ to my son and he said it is awesome and we are going to check it out :)
Thanks again
Randy
Nothing quite compares to Texas barbecue! 😊
I'm convinced to go lithium. I'm deciding between Renogy 100 ah for $489 12v 100ah smart lithium iron phosphate lifepo battery | Renogy (https://www.renogy.com/12v-100ah-smart-lithium-iron-phosphate-battery/) or the SOK for $325 SOK 12V100Ah LiFePO4 Battery Bluetooth&Built-in heater | SOK Battery (https://www.us.sokbattery.com/product-page/sok-12v100ah-lifepo4-battery) . They both seem to have bluetooth and heating. I saw the teardown of the SOK. We don't dry camp that much but are hopeful of doing more. Thoughts or experiance with either of these batteries would be appreciated.
George and Jo Ann
2017 MB
I'm convinced to go lithium. I'm deciding between Renogy 100 ah for $489 12v 100ah smart lithium iron phosphate lifepo battery | Renogy (https://www.renogy.com/12v-100ah-smart-lithium-iron-phosphate-battery/) or the SOK for $325 SOK 12V100Ah LiFePO4 Battery Bluetooth&Built-in heater | SOK Battery (https://www.us.sokbattery.com/product-page/sok-12v100ah-lifepo4-battery) . They both seem to have bluetooth and heating. I saw the teardown of the SOK. We don't dry camp that much but are hopeful of doing more. Thoughts or experiance with either of these batteries would be
Forum members have used both brands without reports of trouble.
Here is another, less expensive choice that provides Bluetooth and heating.
12V 100Ah Bluetooth Lithium Deep Cycle Battery with Self Heating – LiTime-US (https://www.litime.com/products/12v-100ah-group-24-bluetooth-lifepo4-lithium-deep-cycle-battery-with-self-heating)
Larry
I'm still working this out in my mind, I have the converter charging covered, I see the value in the heated cells. Now my alternator on my 1994 Ford 460, would it still charge normally? It looks like most of these batteries are good with 20 amps and about 14.4 -14.6 volts. I suspect I might need to change out the battery isolator with a relay, thoughts on the alternator?
Thanks,
Jon
I'm still working this out in my mind, I have the converter charging covered, I see the value in the heated cells. Now my alternator on my 1994 Ford 460, would it still charge normally? It looks like most of these batteries are good with 20 amps and about 14.4 -14.6 volts. I suspect I might need to change out the battery isolator with a relay, thoughts on the alternator?
Leave the isolator in place, and your alternator will be fine and not overworked. The downside of using the alternator to charge a lithium battery is it will probably never get fully charged using the alternator alone. The alternator charge voltage drops as it heats up. Lithiums need 14.4-14.6 volts when nearly full to achieve a full charge.A hot alternator will not provide this high a voltage since they are calibrated for the lower voltage requirements of lead-acid-based batteries.
A DC-to-DC charger may be needed unless you also have a decent size solar bank. If so, the solar charger controller needs adjustment to the preferred voltage settings for lithium.
Many existing converters will work with lithium batteries, when in doubt, upgrading to a converter designed for lithium is a good choice and will provide better performance
Larry
For what it's worth, a friend recently mentioned SFK brand LiFePO4 batteries (https://www.sunfunkits.com/category/3/pre-built-batteries), and pointed me to a review on the Panbo (https://panbo.com) website. (Panbo is a well-respected independent reviewer of marine electronics gear.)
Panbo's review of the SFK 275EX, a 275 amp-hour battery that currently sells for about $1,100, is very impressive. I won't attempt to repeat it here, but the battery is well constructed, exceeds its specifications, has an excellent Bluetooth app, and comes with a detailed 52-page manual. If I were to replace my Lithionics batteries (which cost three times as much a few years ago), this brand would be high on my list.
Thanks Larry.
Jon